Topic: New Sony PCM-10 , Best possible settings

[oreo]

Hey alll ,

  New to here and taping with good quality stuff . Did most of my recordings is
the 70's and 80's on cassettes .
  I tape lots of different bands and types of music , from Tool to the indigo girls and steve earle to
counting crows . What im hoping for is some suggestions on the best settings for the best posible recordings and
i see alot of you have the pcm-10 and any help would be fantastic ! Im going to Counting crows in a couple weeks .
what would be best for that ? And 1 last thing is say i go see Motorhead , what should my settings be for that ?
   Any suggestions are welcome . Besides the sony , i have a set of sp card mics and sp omni mics and a battery box that i dont use much .
All help welcome and i thank you all for reading . God Bless :]

[George]

Hi Oreo, are you mikes modded to handle loud spl's? 

On the recorder itself:

Rec Volume: Manual
DPC Speed: Off
Mic Sens : Low (at least that's where I leave it, assuming it's for the internals)

I would highly recommend taping over these three buttons once you set them.  I've knocked the Rec Volume switch on more than one occasion before taping over it.

As for your gear, I would suggest: M10>battery box (line in) and then the mikes.   I've personally never used the mic in yet, so others who are more knowledgeable may chime in and say otherwise (listen to them!). 

I usually record to 24bit/44.1KHz, but many record to 24/48.   Really your personal choice.  The bits matter more than the sampling rate, imho. 

How close will you be to the PA at the counting crows show?  I usually run cards, unless I know I'll be close to the PA in a small venue then I run omni's...also gotta factor in the venue's acoustics, type of crowd that will be attending and your location. 

I taped Motorhead back in January, pretty decent show.  Let me know if you're interested in a copy or if you wanna hear a sample.

Hope that helps 

[earmonger]

Under Detail Menu in Menu turn on Cross Memory Recording. That way if you fill up whatever memory you are using (internal or microSD card) it will continue on the other one.

Also go to Limiter and turn it on. It only kicks in if you are facing distortion. It's your insurance if things get WAY TOO LOUD

[Drgiggles1]

I would use your battery box for every recording first of all if you don't have a preamp. I would go mic in and leave the recording level set on 3. The preamp on the M10 is top notch. If you get a preamp go line in and recording level on the M10 on 4 with the pre @ 75% gain. These are just suggested starting points that seem to work well. As far as the other settings on the M10: I go with Record (manual), low cut filter (off), mic sensitivity (low), REC mode (96kHz/24bit), Memory (Memory Card), Limiter (off), Cross Memory Recording (on), Plug In Power (off), PRE REC (on), Battery Setting (nimh), Backlight (always on), LED (on). Record mode is just personal preference as is having the Limiter off, also backlight always on. If you don't use rechargeable nimh batteries you will need to set battery to alkaline. If you find yourself in a situation without your battery box make sure you use plug in power. After you start recording lock the device. Slap some black tape over the manual/auto rec switch. I think I covered everything.

[earmonger]

For what it's worth, I go mic (CA-14)-->Battery box (9V)-->Line-in. The CA-14 are low sensitivity and the level is usually around 6-7, but if your soundpro mics are like my old ones, you'll probably want a level around 5 for them.  This is for loud/amplified music.

[BobbyHurley]

So, 1 vote for Limiter ON and 1 for Limiter OFF.

For taping live amplified shows, what's the rationale for either setting?

[anr]

If you know exactly how the limiter behaves and what your record levels are, then there may just be a situation in which you'd use it.  But if you knew the latter, you'd not need the limiter anyway.   On most recordings I've seen using the limiter the adverse effect is audible.  IMO it is far better to have the record level low than to use the limiter.

I primarily use CAFS > Battery Box > M10 > Mic-In; always between level 3 - 4.5, which I set depending on type of music and venue.  I keep a record of settings at all shows.  The consensus, which I agree with, is to get the green light flickering occasionally, but no more.  But it doesn't really matter if it doesn't.  By far the worst scenario to deal with in post-editing is constant changes in the record level.  Set it, low if necessary, and leave it.  Just my opinion. 

[earmonger]

Couldn't agree more about setting it low and leaving it. I don't ever want to see the red light during a recording. 98% of the time I never see it.

 However, say you are at something relatively quiet and folky, and there is an idiot nearby who has to do the redneck whoop when every song ends. Red light goes on, limiter keeps the jerk quiet.

A good manual level is essential. But I'd rather hear the limiter kick in than have distortion.

[anr]

 However, say you are at something relatively quiet and folky, and there is an idiot nearby who has to do the redneck whoop when every song ends. Red light goes on, limiter keeps the jerk quiet.

I'd put up with that and deal with it in post.  I usually try to edit the noise out altogether (lethal injection after the first whoop being a mite extreme, however tempting).  I experienced this just the other night, but by far the more difficult and annoying thing was the forced HO,HO,HO laughter from the seat behind me.   

I just feel that with the built-in limiter, you are at the mercy of the design's default parameters and the result, especially during applause, is often a "ripple" effect as the signal settles down.  The M10 manual says the limiter works within a range of 12dB, after which it warns of distortion.  I'd rather be >12dB lower on the record level at 24bit.  But it is a personal choice.   

[Cheesecadet]

I always have the limiter on just in case.

[fmaderjr]

I always have the limiter on just in case.

Why do a lot of us not agree with this? Turn the limiter on, but try to set levels so that it doesn't need to kick in. If it does kick in, it will sound better than distortion. It's a good safety valve.

[Ekib]

I recorded a gig last tuesday with my PCM M10 . It was a loud metalgig and the manual settings were at 5 . During the mainchorus of the song the M10 warned "over" so I did set the volume back. But afterwards I couldn't hear any distortion at all on the part the recorder indicated as distorted. Maybe you can record at a higher volume  than what the recorder indicates ?

About the limiter...if you switch it on , isn't it the same idea as auto recording ? If the limiter starts working at 12 DB from what I have understood. I surely don't want the recorder to cut off the levels when reaching 12 DB . I accidently recorded a show on my portable DAT using auto levels. You could tell anytime the level was going over 12 DB it was cutting off the volume . It ended up sounding horrible.

[adrianf74]

I'm gonna jump in here.    LIMITER = OFF.   End of story.

I once managed to turn a limited (ALC) on my old TCD-D7 during a show which sounded brilliant save for the accidental bump.  Barring that, I will *NEVER* use a built in limiter and make sure that switch/toggle/setting can't be mucked with.   It's not gonna "save" you in the end.  It's just gonna make your recording sound gawd-awful when it does kick in.

I set my levels so they peak around -12dB to -10dB and go from there.   At -10dB peaks (especially at a club show), it's still almost impossible to run out of headroom.  Even on the few occasions where I've set my levels too high, I've heard no real signs of distortion as the peaks were very brief before I backpedaled. 

As far as the mics and battery box go -- the OP should check to see if these were modded for high SPL's otherwise some ugliness might happen.  I've run year 2003 SP-CMC-8's (AT-933/C) in the past and have overloaded the mics a few times by getting way too close to the source.   That mod, if your mics don't have them, will help immensely when stack taping/smaller clubs.   The battery box is a definite must as well.   Get your battery box and mics and record via line in.   There's some debate in these parts about where Unity is on the M10.  (Unity is the point where the preamp isn't being used to gain up the levels).   I've always set my M10 at level 4 1/2 (4.5) and have never had problems.  Only at the most recent show I'd gone to did I bump into a problem with the levels being too high but that's because I run a preamp with some gain set on it which can't easily be adjusted.   With a battery box and moderately sensitive mics (i.e., CA-14's or the CAFS omnis) you'll probably want to have your M10 set around 6 or 7 but you'll only know where you need to set your levels to after some trial and error.   The M10 has a pretty awesome preamp in it (very quiet) so I've never worried too much about that.

Enjoy your shows!

[earmonger]

No, the limiter is not the same as auto level. Auto boosts when it's quiet and cuts when it's loud. It is not a musical experience.  Limiter ONLY cuts when it's overloading.

I wouldn't even use Auto Level  for a lecture or interview, because every time the speaker pauses, ALC boosts the background noise. I guess it's good for something, but I'm not sure what.

The limiter is different. It only kicks in when you'd otherwise be in trouble.  You don't want to use it, fine. But do wear your bicycle helmet, OK?

The other point AdrianF is making is one to keep in mind. Your mics may overload before the PCM-M10 does. When that happens, you may get a nice hi-fi recording of unlistenable distortion. I've had some pretty high SPLs going into mic-->battbox-->line-in, with no problem. But sitting right near the stack at a Soundgarden show just overloaded the mics, even without the red light flashing.

Also, yes, the PCM-M10 has nice preamps. But if you're going through line-in, you're bypassing them.

[fmaderjr]

I'm gonna jump in here.    LIMITER = OFF.   End of story.

Auto level off, end of story.

Limiter on/off certainly has room for disagreement and IMO I see no reason for not turning it on.

As I said before if limiter is on and you set levels so it never kicks in (as you should aim to do) no harm done. If levels prove to be a little too high and it kicks in a bit, the recording should sound better (probably much better) than if the limiter were off. If the levels are set way too high, though, the limiter won't save you-the recording will still be distorted.