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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: George on June 01, 2011, 06:21:23 PM
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I always see miniature omni's, but what about cards, hypers, etc? I have a pair of Countryman B3's and would like to compliment them with a pair of lavalier-like cards and hypers as well for a reasonable price. The at853's I have are a bit too heavy to be clipped onto a t-shirt, pair of glasses and so on. I see the church audio stuff, but I'd like something of a higher caliber, if there's anything out there.
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Simple physics places limitations on how small a high quality pressure gradient (i.e. directional) microphone can be made. It's easy to make a miniature pressure transducer (omni), but not so much a directional microphone.
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I run SP-CMC-2(AT831) stealth, clipping them onto a bag or my shirt. I don't run them in super stealth situation, but in situations where I know I won't be see (very dark, big crowd, festivals, etc) they are easy to use and pull excellent results. They are smaller than a lot of other stealth cards people use, and still people excellent, if not better results. Added bonus is you can attach AT853 caps to them
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I run MM-HLSC-1 (with 4.7k mod). Here are two samples from a hard-rock show recorded in a club :
soft part : http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZF2LOHB7 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZF2LOHB7)
loud part : http://www.megaupload.com/?d=IA23YLXC (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=IA23YLXC)
Location : 10th row, extreme right side of the room (so not the sweet spot), mics above a noisy and bouncing crowd.
And another one for people that keep saying MM-HLSC-1 lack of bass : http://hotfile.com/dl/107495444/2ee241d/Labor_of_Love.mp3.html (http://hotfile.com/dl/107495444/2ee241d/Labor_of_Love.mp3.html)
(BTW, this is a full song by an open taping rock band called "The Gracious Few")
Location : 4th row, dead center. Mics on hat.
The best advice I could give you is to get a few shows recorded with different stxxxtl cards and make your own mind.
Stxxxth tapers popular choices are said to be SP-CMC-8, MM-HLSC-1 and CA-14.
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I use CA-11 cards very frequently and have run with the CA-14 cards for an entire festival season and have to say that they give excellent pulls and are about as stxxlthy as they get for cards.
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I use CA-11 cards very frequently and have run with the CA-14 cards for an entire festival season and have to say that they give excellent pulls and are about as stxxlthy as they get for cards.
While I love my -14s they're not exactly really 007. Clipped onto a pair of glasses or something you might get some funny looks.
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I use CA-11 cards very frequently and have run with the CA-14 cards for an entire festival season and have to say that they give excellent pulls and are about as stxxlthy as they get for cards.
While I love my -14s they're not exactly really 007. Clipped onto a pair of glasses or something you might get some funny looks.
Agreed but how much smaller can cards get? I have Chris Churches CAFS's and as omni's, I don't think they get much smaller than that - about the size of a grain of rice each. As hi & lo mentioned, cards are limited in how small they can get. I run 4 channels so I frequently record with 2 pairs of CA-11's (cards & omnis) stuck on a hat with a piece of acoustically transparent cloth over them - makes me look a bit silly but does the job and is quite invisible.
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If size is a big matter and you find the AT853 (SP-CMC-4U) too big, the only smaller good quality card or hyper I can think of is the SP-CMC-8 (AT934s).
All other options (MM HLSC-1, Audix 1280, Church CA-11/14,...) are about the same size but a little bit bigger than SP CMC-8...
All mics mentioned above are surely very st***hable for sure...
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There is also the SP-CMC-25 which I haven't seen anyone around here using but there are a few recordings on the LMA.
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=sp-cmc-25%20AND%20collection%3Aetree
The specs are very similar to the SP-CMC-8, although almost the same size as well...slightly smaller diameter, probably not enough to make a difference
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DPA 4081 Supercardioids (I actually have the 4099s cut out of their mounts, the 4081 is a better way to go now) fit in a croakie. They even fit in a croakie with a pair of DPA omnis along side, which allows you to record 4-track and then mix the bass from the omnis with the cardioids. I have been doing this for over two years and I don't know anything small that comes anywhere near this. Alone, the 4081/4099s are the best sounding small directional mics I have heard (I've tried MM, AT, SP, others too).
Jeff
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i get so horny when people start talking about stealth!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/MokePics2/emoticons%20and%20misc%20stuff/4sw0sw0yu72yu.gif)
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i get so horny when people start talking about stealth!
::)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/andywayne/Emoticons/flailingarms.gif)
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Go big or go home. I like the CA-14's and AT853's for 007 work.
There are other ways to run these short of putting them on glasses, which just screams HI I'M RUNNING AUDIO PLEASE BUST ME.
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Go big or go home. I like the CA-14's and AT853's for 007 work.
There are other ways to run these short of putting them on glasses, which just screams HI I'M RUNNING AUDIO PLEASE BUST ME.
Well yeah, I seriously never clip them to my eyeglasses. Just looking for something that has "better" sound quality and smaller.
hi and lo pretty much answered my question ;)
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I run MM-HLSC-1 (with 4.7k mod). Here are two samples from a hard-rock show recorded in a club :
soft part : http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZF2LOHB7 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZF2LOHB7)
loud part : http://www.megaupload.com/?d=IA23YLXC (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=IA23YLXC)
Location : 10th row, extreme right side of the room (so not the sweet spot), mics above a noisy and bouncing crowd.
And another one for people that keep saying MM-HLSC-1 lack of bass : http://hotfile.com/dl/107495444/2ee241d/Labor_of_Love.mp3.html (http://hotfile.com/dl/107495444/2ee241d/Labor_of_Love.mp3.html)
(BTW, this is a full song by an open taping rock band called "The Gracious Few")
Location : 4th row, dead center. Mics on hat.
The best advice I could give you is to get a few shows recorded with different stxxxtl cards and make your own mind.
Stxxxth tapers popular choices are said to be SP-CMC-8, MM-HLSC-1 and CA-14.
Thanks for taking the time to write this up and post some links, the loud part sample sounded great!
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All that being said i have recorded "not so open" with dpa4061, hlsc's, 853's, dpa4021 , schoeps mk4, etc and size of the mic is not a issue, be creative and its not a problem for any of these, one thing i will say is as soon as i stopped using clips to attach the mics somewhere on myself the recordings became much better.
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All that being said i have recorded "not so open" with dpa4061, hlsc's, 853's, dpa4021 , schoeps mk4, etc and size of the mic is not a issue, be creative and its not a problem for any of these, one thing i will say is as soon as i stopped using clips to attach the mics somewhere on myself the recordings became much better.
Can you elaborate on that clip comment? I find I get more handling noise not using clips but attaching them to my body via tape, elastic etc.
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All that being said i have recorded "not so open" with dpa4061, hlsc's, 853's, dpa4021 , schoeps mk4, etc and size of the mic is not a issue, be creative and its not a problem for any of these, one thing i will say is as soon as i stopped using clips to attach the mics somewhere on myself the recordings became much better.
Can you elaborate on that clip comment? I find I get more handling noise not using clips but attaching them to my body via tape, elastic etc.
Yes, please do elaborate :)
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Omnis, Gaff Tape, HRTF = Yum >:D
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baseball hat + bobby pins + omni's = win.
Clips have always sucked for me.
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please do elaborate for the stupid fucks that are too lazy, and, stupid to take a moment to figure this stuff out for themselves.
why not let the world know about stealth??
dipshits
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please do elaborate for the stupid fucks that are too lazy, and, stupid to take a moment to figure this stuff out for themselves.
why not let the world know about stealth??
dipshits
give it a rest grandpa :P
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DPA 4081 Supercardioids..
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=129&item=24376 (http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=129&item=24376)
First line of the description-
The DPA 4081 Supercardioid Miniature Microphone is a high quality directional condenser microphone primarily intended to use for ultra-low profile, discreet recordings in the field..
I asked DPA and was told that other than the gooseneck and senstivity the 4081 and 4098 are identical.
4098 = 20 mV/Pa; -34 dB re. 1 V/Pa (same as 4060)
4081 = 6 mV/Pa; -44 dB re. 1 V/Pa (same as 4061)
Figure out how to use it on your own.
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DPA 4081 Supercardioids..
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=129&item=24376 (http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=129&item=24376)
First line of the description-
The DPA 4081 Supercardioid Miniature Microphone is a high quality directional condenser microphone primarily intended to use for ultra-low profile, discreet recordings in the field..
I asked DPA and was told that other than the gooseneck and senstivity the 4081 and 4098 are identical.
4098 = 20 mV/Pa; -34 dB re. 1 V/Pa (same as 4060)
4081 = 6 mV/Pa; -44 dB re. 1 V/Pa (same as 4061)
Figure out how to use it on your own.
Why have I never heard of these before ??? How much is a pair?
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The DPA 4081 Supercardioid Miniature Microphone is a high quality directional condenser microphone primarily intended to use for ultra-low profile, discreet recordings in the field..
Even DPA is advertising stealth >:D, talking about it here can't do that much more damage.
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The DPA 4081 Supercardioid Miniature Microphone is a high quality directional condenser microphone primarily intended to use for ultra-low profile, discreet recordings in the field..
Even DPA is advertising stealth >:D, talking about it here can't do that much more damage.
equipment, not technique.
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DPA 4081 Supercardioids (I actually have the 4099s cut out of their mounts, the 4081 is a better way to go now) fit in a croakie. They even fit in a croakie with a pair of DPA omnis along side, which allows you to record 4-track and then mix the bass from the omnis with the cardioids. I have been doing this for over two years and I don't know anything small that comes anywhere near this. Alone, the 4081/4099s are the best sounding small directional mics I have heard (I've tried MM, AT, SP, others too).
Jeff
Just curious - how do those DPA 4081s sound on their own? Even though they're DPA I would assume they'd sound terrible in terms of the low end, just because of the natural limitations of making a small hyper, though I'm sure the rest of the signal sounds nice and DPA-like.... Mixing them with the 4061 is a great idea.
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The DPA 4081 Supercardioid Miniature Microphone is a high quality directional condenser microphone primarily intended to use for ultra-low profile, discreet recordings in the field..
Even DPA is advertising stealth >:D, talking about it here can't do that much more damage.
equipment, not technique.
That does not equate to stealthing. I openly recorded, very discreetly (w/ DPA compact mics), for the last decade, because I was in front of intimate chamber ensembles and audiences that don't appreciate having sight lines blocked with big gear; and/or, I don't want to attract players union/guild attention to the fact that I'm recording union players without a contract.
So I chose to do my field recordings with small discreet microphones that obscured the sight lines to the minimum, and drew the least attention.
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Just curious - how do those DPA 4081s sound on their own? Even though they're DPA I would assume they'd sound terrible in terms of the low end, just because of the natural limitations of making a small hyper, though I'm sure the rest of the signal sounds nice and DPA-like.... Mixing them with the 4061 is a great idea.
They do not sound bad at all. In my view not as good as Schoeps MK4 in similar use, though a friend who uses MK4s (with active cables > LimoSax > SD702) thinks they are, and he has one of the highest end audiophile systems for playback I know of. I mix with 4063s, actually, because the Sonosax MiniR82 will power those mic-in, I use the 4099s with an MMA6000 preamp to go line-in.
Jeff
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please do elaborate for the stupid fucks that are too lazy, and, stupid to take a moment to figure this stuff out for themselves.
why not let the world know about stealth??
dipshits
Ya know, I was going to write up a really long post, but why bother? You're an absolute waste of time.
EDIT: to the rest, thanks for the posts and comments on models I've probably never heard of. Time to search the archive for samples.
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please do elaborate for the stupid fucks that are too lazy, and, stupid to take a moment to figure this stuff out for themselves.
why not let the world know about stealth??
dipshits
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/wonupaboveit/BrokenRecord.jpg)
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Unlike the polarized black and white abstracted world of the interenet, reality is shades of grey.
DPA is not 'advertising stealth' in the sense that we use the term around here, they produce and sell microphones that can be hidden on talent and used on camera without drawing attention to the gear.
equipment, not technique.
That does not equate to stealthing.[..]
So I chose to do my field recordings with small discreet microphones that obscured the sight lines to the minimum, and drew the least attention.
My quoting of the DPA description was somewhat tounge-in-cheek and intentionally open to selective intrepretation. As you know, we share many of the same values my friend, in respect to talk of stealth recording on open forums and also keeping a discreet low-profile when open recording.
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I should have isolated the quote better, Lee. I'm in agreement with your take on it.
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are we really going to have this argument again? ::)
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Been stealthing with MK4s for 20 years. Generally I do bigger shows so not obvious. Small clubs may be a different story.
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I have stealthed with a Rode NT4 for crying out loud! I tried stealthing with Beyerdynamic MC930s once but it hurt (I won't specify which body part it hurt). Now I routinely stealth with Beyerdynamic CK930s, which are very similar in size to daspyknows' MK4s and also Neumann KM140s and DPA-what-are-they-4023s?