Topic: SoundProfessional CMC-8 (AT caps) MOD

[leegeddy]

hello gang:

in continuation of this thread:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=11679

here are some scans of the modified SP-CMC-8 mics that i did for a friend.

few comments about the CMC-8 mics.

1. i don't know why people call these "AT853". they are definitely not the 853s. when i spoke to SP, they told me that they use the AT933 capsules (discontinued by AT over a year ago).  i believe that SP is now using AT943 capsules, not 100% sure.

2. my bud wanted to run his Beyer with his mics, so i offered to mod his mics for him.  he also wanted to use his SP battery box in extra stealth situations so he wanted that option as well.

The MOD:

basically, i inserted a Male/Female Mini-XLR connection as you see here:



he can use the mini-plug > battery box as he has done before.

if he wants to use his Beyer w/ 48V phantom power, he would use this setup:



Final price:

Mini-XLR Male/Female were about $6.50 each ($26)
AT8533 Phantom Power Module were $60 each ($120)

i made a quick comparison recording between the 2 setups:

SP CMC-8 > SP-SPSB-1 batt. box > DAT
SP CMC-8 > Beyerdynamics w/48v phantom > DAT

as expected, there was a very noticeable difference between the 2 samples.  the Beyer setup was punchier, warmer and had more definition/dynamics in the recording. the normal SP setup was flat in comparison.

marc

[Sean Gallemore]

yeah! i just used the AT853 (w/phanntom @48V cortesy of Goose!) and the tapes are my best, and simply amazing! Except these weren't from SP, Goose's were from an AT dealer.

[hoyt]

Just out of curiosity, why did you go with the AT power module over the Samson?  Thanks.

--hoyt

[leegeddy]

Just out of curiosity, why did you go with the AT power module over the Samson?  Thanks.

--hoyt

AT modules were recommended to be used with AT capsules. i didn't look further than that.

marc

[hoyt]

AT modules were recommended to be used with AT capsules. i didn't look further than that.

marc

Oh ok.  When I talked to the SP guy he said they used the Samson ones, which are 1/2 the price of the ATs.  Also, I think people call the cmc-6's the at853s, not the cmc-8s.  The cmc-6 is made with the at853 capsule.

--hoyt

[leegeddy]

AT modules were recommended to be used with AT capsules. i didn't look further than that.

marc

Oh ok.  When I talked to the SP guy he said they used the Samson ones, which are 1/2 the price of the ATs.  Also, I think people call the cmc-6's the at853s, not the cmc-8s.  The cmc-6 is made with the at853 capsule.

--hoyt

from SP site for CMC-6

The Premium Slimline Audio Technica microphone system utilizes a matched set of Audio Technica Omnidirectional microphones, similar to the popular AT853 in performance, but with a metal body that is much smaller than the AT853. The entire microphone capsule measures .3" in diameter and is about .9" long.

i don't think it's the AT853 based on their description.

marc

[greenone]

The CMC-6's and the CMC-8's both say "similar to the AT853", which I thought was odd. Most of the other mics on there actually say which ones are used. Odd.

[Sean Gallemore]

they aren't at853s, the SP-CMC-4s are the AT853s (switchable caps)

[BobW]

What do these things sound like ?
Any bass ? Very present and up front ?
Tinny ?
They seem so small to have much bottom at all. 'Tho the DPAs really put that assumption to bed.  Can they take a full 48V phantom ?

Any recordings to share ?

[Sean Gallemore]

i have done recordings with the AT853 and the SP-CMC-2(at831) recently.  The sound on the ATs is undescribably better.  I should have a recording up soon in Kickdowns

[leegeddy]

What do these things sound like ?
Any bass ? Very present and up front ?
Tinny ?
They seem so small to have much bottom at all. 'Tho the DPAs really put that assumption to bed.  Can they take a full 48V phantom ?

Any recordings to share ?

sample1:  AT853 > Beyerdynamics MV-100 w/48v phantom > Sony D100. XY config. 9' stand DFC approximately 40' from stage.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mkim/MP3/primus2003-10-17-sample.mp3

sample2:  AT853 > Beyerdynamics MV-100 w/48v phantom > Sony M1. XY config. 8' stand at SBD, DFC approximately 25' from stage.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mkim/MP3/caressofsteel2003-10-11-sample.mp3

you can feed them 9-52v of phantom power according to AT's specs.

marc

[Sean Gallemore]

wait, are these with true AT853 or the SP?

[leegeddy]

wait, are these with true AT853 or the SP?

they are the truuuu AT mics.

marc

[save]

i thought if you ran 48v to the sound pro at mics that they would fry them?  i thought they were only made to run @ 9v?

[leegeddy]

i thought if you ran 48v to the sound pro at mics that they would fry them?  i thought they were only made to run @ 9v?

that was the whole point of the following thread:

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=11679

you can run up to 52v of -PHANTOM POWER-, ONLY if you have the necessary modules like the AT8533, AT8532 or the Samson one someone mentioned.

if you have a battery box powering your SoundProfessional "AT's", then you need to stick to their 9v design.

marc

[Sean Gallemore]

i think i get it now!  I was confused which mics the sample mp3s were from because the mics at the top are the SP mics.

Also, your mod was resoldering mini xlr connectors on so that you can easily switch between phantom and battery power?

[hoyt]

they aren't at853s, the SP-CMC-4s are the AT853s (switchable caps)

Ah yes, that's what I meant.  Whatever the hell SP# I have is the switchable cap at853.  

--hoyt

[Sean Gallemore]

fuggin SP

[leegeddy]

i think i get it now!  I was confused which mics the sample mp3s were from because the mics at the top are the SP mics.

Also, your mod was resoldering mini xlr connectors on so that you can easily switch between phantom and battery power?

you're correct.  the mics pictured are from SP and are not mine. i have the real AT853a mics.

the mod was only adding the mini-xlr male/female connection by cutting the original cable.

marc

[save]

sorry i missed that post.....interesting stuff.  i have a pair of sp at933's that i run w/ the battery box.  i've always wanted to try and run them w/ a mp-2 or something similar, but was scared it would fry them.  so in order for me to run them w/ a mp-2 i'd need to mod them similar to what u did?  

[leegeddy]

sorry i missed that post.....interesting stuff.  i have a pair of sp at933's that i run w/ the battery box.  i've always wanted to try and run them w/ a mp-2 or something similar, but was scared it would fry them.  so in order for me to run them w/ a mp-2 i'd need to mod them similar to what u did?  

adding the mini-xlr connection to the mics as shown in the photo and pairing with the power modules (either the AT8533 or the Samson brand) would do the trick.

i think that you'll be very surprised by the overall increase in dynamics and warmth by using phantom power with your MP2.

marc

[Sean Gallemore]

i'm totally on that train. I'm using a pair of at853s on loan from goose and they really open up the recording over the SP mics I was borrowing before.

[mattb]

I have those SP 933s (I think - I bought them from SP in '98) so I'd be interested to hear how this turns out. I like them OK but wouldn't mind making them better for not too much money.

[deviant]

On a similar subject, and I would appreciate some help. I also have the SP CMC-8(AT943) and run them thru the SP-SPSB-6(bat module) into an M1. From what I've read here, thank you all, I'd like to add phantom power, but I'm unsure about a couple things. SP makes a modified Denecke PS2 to mini and idealy this would be the route I'd like to go. Most if not all the shows I tape have to be stealth. It seems I can get the phantom power from the PS2, but I need to mod my SP CMC-8 to xlr. However, SP makes a female mini to xlr and I'm wondering if this is a good approach or should I mod the mics? There may be times I'd still have to go super stealth and would still need to use my bat module, so I was thinking I could do the same mod as the other thread listed above and could get the mini-xlr to xlr line converters. Am I making sense at all?

Thanks for any help!

Joel
 

[leegeddy]

>>> SP makes a modified Denecke PS2 to mini and idealy this would be the route I'd like to go. Most if not all the shows I tape have to be stealth. It seems I can get the phantom power from the PS2, but I need to mod my SP CMC-8 to xlr.

joel, you're correct. you need to re-balance your connection.  (your stereo mini-plug is unbalanced.) phantom power only works in a balanced (3 wire) connection/circuit.   take a look at the first photo at the start of this thread.  i simply added a mini-XLR Female/Male connection to my buddy's SP mics BEFORE the mini-plug.

>> However, SP makes a female mini to xlr and I'm wondering if this is a good approach or should I mod the mics?

you can not use a miniF > XLR connector to run phantom.

>> There may be times I'd still have to go super stealth and would still need to use my bat module, so I was thinking I could do the same mod as the other thread listed above and could get the mini-xlr to xlr line converters. Am I making sense at all?

your questions make perfect sense.  hope the following will clear it up more:

-each of your mic cable has 5 conductors. 2-yellow, 2-red and 1-shield.
-the 2-yellow are connected to form a single conductor, same for the 2-reds.
-your microphone capsule outputs a balanced signal across the Red and Yellow while ground is shield (thus 3 wires)
-your mini plug unbalances each mic's output by shorting (connecting together) the Yellow and Shield while your signal (hot) is carried along the Red.
-so if you simply use a mini-Female > XLR converter, you're not rebalancing your connection.  re-balance has to be done before your mini-plug (see photo #1).

here's a crude diagram:



-you can not simply rebalance this connection by using a mini-F > XLR adaptor.

if you decide to go with the Deneke PS-2, you'll still need a power module for your mics.  simply think of them as "mic bodies" like the Schoeps CMC6 or Neumann KM100 bodies.  AT makes one (AT8533). someone mentioned the Samson PM4 Phantom Power Adapter from SP.

i use the AT8533 model and don't have any experience with the Samson one.

in regards to the mic cable mod, feel free to PM me.

marc

[deviant]

Thank you Marc. SP lists the PS-2 as a 48V Phantom Power Supply. Is it not really and that is why I still need the other power adapters? I guess I'm a little confused then. Maybe SP should be a little clearer.

Joel

[leegeddy]

Thank you Marc. SP lists the PS-2 as a 48V Phantom Power Supply. Is it not really and that is why I still need the other power adapters? I guess I'm a little confused then. Maybe SP should be a little clearer.

Joel

the PS-2 is the actual phantom power supply.  in your particular case with the AT capsules, you need to use the phantom power modules as discussed previously.  

marc

[hoyt]

I just finished the mod on my at853's from SP.  Haven't taped anything yet, but I powered them on 48 for a while and nothing started smoking.  I didn't even burn anything soldering!

--hoyt

[leegeddy]

I just finished the mod on my at853's from SP.  Haven't taped anything yet, but I powered them on 48 for a while and nothing started smoking.  I didn't even burn anything soldering!

--hoyt

+T for not burning down the house

marc

[mattb]

So to do this you need the AT or Beyer power modules AND a source of phantom power, right? The power modules are just like an adaptor and don't actually provide any power, right? Just getting it all straight before spending any money.

[Sean Gallemore]

correct, atleast in my experience with the AT8533x power modules

[mattb]

Where's the best deal on them. From a quick search it looks like it's SP which surprises me.

[leegeddy]

Where's the best deal on them. From a quick search it looks like it's SP which surprises me.

i ordered my AT8533 Power modules directly from AT (330) 686-2600. just ask for the parts/service dept.  they cost $59 each.

someone mentioned the Samson PM4 Phantom Power Adapter available at SP.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=560&item=SAM-PM4&type=store

i've never used them, but its description matches what a power module suppose to be.

marc

edit:  i taped a Pink Floyd tribute band last night running the AT853 > MV100 (48v phantom).  here's a sample:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mkim/MP3/w1p2004-01-24-sample.mp3

[hoyt]

someone mentioned the Samson PM4 Phantom Power Adapter available at SP.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=560&item=SAM-PM4&type=store
...

Yeah, that's what I used.  Cost half as much as the AT, and it's what the SP tech recomended to me.  Beats the hell out of me what the difference is between them.  

--hoyt

[mattb]

I'm thinking for poweing there can't be that big of a difference, I'll probably get the Samsons too.
Where'd you get the rest of the stuff to build the adaptor to use the SP box still and the mini xlrs for the mics?

[mattb]

Ooh! I have a plan.
I want to do this project, but hate (unnecessary) adaptor clutter. So, if I build myself a little battery box with mini xlr inputs and 3.5 mm output that would be a great stealth setup for when I can't run phantom. This will be fun!

Unfortunately I probably won't get to it for a few weeks...

[hoyt]

I'm thinking for poweing there can't be that big of a difference, I'll probably get the Samsons too.
Where'd you get the rest of the stuff to build the adaptor to use the SP box still and the mini xlrs for the mics?

I got all the stuff from SP.  I think the mini xlrs cost me $3 each, bot not too sure.  The difference might be in size.  The samsons are about 4 inches long.  Not sure about the AT's.  It would be nice to have something not as bulky for that since more than likely they will have to be duct taped to the stand.

Ooh! I have a plan.
I want to do this project, but hate (unnecessary) adaptor clutter. So, if I build myself a little battery box with mini xlr inputs and 3.5 mm output that would be a great stealth setup for when I can't run phantom. This will be fun!

Unfortunately I probably won't get to it for a few weeks...

That's not a bad idea, but what you'd need a bigger battery box than the SP one.  Of course then you could put it in a plastic casing instead of that metal one that sets off metal detectors and is very cold when crotching it.  Yes, very cold.  I don't think it would really be worth your time for that though.

--hoyt

[leegeddy]

>>Of course then you could put it in a plastic casing instead of that metal one that sets off metal detectors and is very cold when crotching it.

scenario:

Cute gal doing security check/patdowns:  "hi, is that a cold custom mod batterybox in your pants or aren't you not glad to see me?"

me:  "ummm, ummmm, ugggghhhh.....here's my ticket"