Topic: SP-CMC-4 vs core stealthy cardiod

[SuicideUZI]

Im debating on getting one of these mics.  with battery module they both come to $250 so Im wondering if anyone here would prefer one over the other and why.  Or should I expect the same results from both? Is there another alternative at around the same price that would be better than both of these options?

here is the sound professional:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?item=SP-CMC-4

here is the core:
http://www.core-sound.com/cardioid/1.php

[madman]

The SP's are AT853s, which are one of the best low priced mics out there.  You can also switch to other caps (omni, hyper card, etc).  Make sure you search on here for 3 wire battery boxes to get the best use out of those mics.

[M]

I have had both and I like the at853's much better.  They sound more full espically with the bass responce but really the overal sound is just better.

[corsair]

No offence, but I find Core's cardioids are a total waste of $$$...
The recordings are very thin sounding... missing alot of the low end..

go for the 853s...they're mint.

[blastroknow]

I started off with the c-s cards and they were good mics to get into taping with but then I got a set of the AT 853s and they sounded better.

That said - shoot me a pm if you want a set of the c-s mics for cheap.

[ilduclo]

recommend against corpsesounds, fragile and the service has not been good (3 times down, 3 to 6 week repair turnaround, no answering e mails, etc)

[Javit]

I used to use the CS mics all the time and never had anything bad to say about them.  They'r deffinently better for doing stack tapes more than anything though.

[SuicideUZI]

Thanks for the replies, looks like I will be going with the SP-CM-4.

Does anyone know if its worth the $10 extra for "large premium locking windscreens" or if the standard ones will be just as good

or if "shure rotating clips" or "mini rotating clips" would be better

Also it seems from what ive read that the 3 wire battery boxes would be a better option than getting a battery box from SP, are there any professionaly made 3 wire battery boxes or do you pretty much have to make one on your own or find someone who does?

[poorlyconditioned]

Thanks for the replies, looks like I will be going with the SP-CM-4.

Does anyone know if its worth the $10 extra for "large premium locking windscreens" or if the standard ones will be just as good

or if "shure rotating clips" or "mini rotating clips" would be better

Also it seems from what ive read that the 3 wire battery boxes would be a better option than getting a battery box from SP, are there any professionaly made 3 wire battery boxes or do you pretty much have to make one on your own or find someone who does?

A few of us (Sanjay and myself) were making these in the past, but we're both taking a break until our hands get less shakey and our patience improves.

In the meantime, you could:
- ask SP to put miniXLR (TA3F) on each mic
- ask SP or Chris Church (Church audio) to make you either a 3-wire batt. box, or a 3-wire batt box + pre
    (the Church pre is really nice for the money)

Or, you can just start with a miniplug and standard battery box and mod to 3-wire later.

  Richard

[madman]

Thanks for the replies, looks like I will be going with the SP-CM-4.

Does anyone know if its worth the $10 extra for "large premium locking windscreens" or if the standard ones will be just as good

or if "shure rotating clips" or "mini rotating clips" would be better

Also it seems from what ive read that the 3 wire battery boxes would be a better option than getting a battery box from SP, are there any professionaly made 3 wire battery boxes or do you pretty much have to make one on your own or find someone who does?

I had the mini clips and hated them, the Shures are probably much better.

[Church-Audio]

Insted of using clips why dont you try some loops of thread sewn around the cable that goes to the mic when you done snip the thread and you have the best set of clips out there IMO its what we do in the theator all the time for lav mics.

Thanks for the replies, looks like I will be going with the SP-CM-4.

Does anyone know if its worth the $10 extra for "large premium locking windscreens" or if the standard ones will be just as good

or if "shure rotating clips" or "mini rotating clips" would be better

Also it seems from what ive read that the 3 wire battery boxes would be a better option than getting a battery box from SP, are there any professionaly made 3 wire battery boxes or do you pretty much have to make one on your own or find someone who does?

I had the mini clips and hated them, the Shures are probably much better.

[Humbug]

I'm not sure what Chris means above, could you explain?

I personally like to use clips as most of the time (when stealthing anyway) the mics are collar mounted. I use mini clips with my CMC2s, and they work fine, though the jaws don't come very far apart. They work better if you strip the rubber covering off one or both of the croc clips.

[Church-Audio]

Just get some thread and sew a few loops around the cable that connects to the mic its very simple and it works great and they do not fall off! so if you are going to wear them under your collar sew them on then after the night is over cut the thread and your good to go or sew them into a hat. for even better sound..

Chris Church

quote author=Humbug link=topic=63797.msg854641#msg854641 date=1146353118]
I'm not sure what Chris means above, could you explain?

I personally like to use clips as most of the time (when stealthing anyway) the mics are collar mounted. I use mini clips with my CMC2s, and they work fine, though the jaws don't come very far apart. They work better if you strip the rubber covering off one or both of the croc clips.
[/quote]

[Ekib]

No offence, but I find Core's cardioids are a total waste of $$$...
The recordings are very thin sounding... missing alot of the low end..

go for the 853s...they're mint.

To each it's own. However I do find the "lack "( for lack of the better word ) the true strength of the Core Sound card's. Recordings always come out very clear And most important they come out very "direct ". I have used other mic's in the same pricerange like the MM's (the $ 250 ones) and although they do sound more bass-low end I miss the clarity and directness of the CSCD. I know at least 2 other fellow tapers who use nothing but CSCD for any type of recording and they wouldn't like to change to any other type of mic ( and of my friends is tapetrader and he heard a lot of recordings with other mic's ) .

[Church-Audio]

I think the problem with some of the hand made cardioid mics out there and I am not specifically talking about CS is the fact that, some people think they can just use a brass tube with some heat shrink over it and call it a day. The back part of the chamber or mic housing ( for cardioid ) is very complicated and needs to be made correctly if two things are going to happen A- a dependable polar pattern B- a good low end response.

It is not just a mater of taking a Panasonic capsule and sticking it into a brass tube, and saying hey it’s a microphone!
Look at earthworks its no secret that they use PANASONIC capsules in the cardioid mics they build. Why do they sound better then anyone else that is using a Panasonic capsule? I will tell you they use math and good machining to make the body of the capsule, and they also know that what is behind the capsule is just as important as what is in front of it to help shape its sound. And you do not make a product that sounds that good with out really knowing what the hell you’re talking about. Thru math and engineering. Not just heat shrink tubing. Any moron can build a mic but how many can make it really sound great? Omni mics can have the response altered by changing the ports in front of the mic to change its sound smooth it out or make it flat or make it have less top end. All of this is possible via the mics housing. \

Chris Church

No offence, but I find Core's cardioids are a total waste of $$$...
The recordings are very thin sounding... missing alot of the low end..

go for the 853s...they're mint.

To each it's own. However I do find the "lack "( for lack of the better word ) the true strength of the Core Sound card's. Recordings always come out very clear And most important they come out very "direct ". I have used other mic's in the same pricerange like the MM's (the $ 250 ones) and although they do sound more bass-low end I miss the clarity and directness of the CSCD. I know at least 2 other fellow tapers who use nothing but CSCD for any type of recording and they wouldn't like to change to any other type of mic ( and of my friends is tapetrader and he heard a lot of recordings with other mic's ) .

[Zaphod]

Hey Chris what kind of capsules are you using for you cards? That is, if you'd like to share.

[poorlyconditioned]

Hey Chris what kind of capsules are you using for you cards? That is, if you'd like to share.

I think he considers this proprietary.  I would love to know too.  Not because I want to compete (his stuff is well made and inexpensive, so why bother), but so I might know more and perhaps experiment with some DIY experiments.  Anyway, this is his choice.

But he is sending me a pair, so I'll run a head-to-head comparison with my beloved AT853's soon.  Watch this space...

Oh yeah, if you want to get into bare capsules (!!!), go over to the Yahoo group "micbuilders".  There are even crazy guys over there building their own capsules with metal film.  Total geek zone!

  Richard

[Church-Audio]

I use a capsule made in China its very good, I do some mods to it so its really not the same capsule when I am done with it. I do not use panasonic. I use something where the back housing is already machined for me. But that being said I do mod the back of the housing as well. I do not talk about what capsule I use, you only have to listen to recordings made by it to know that its good. For what I sell a pair of mics for there is nothing that comes close to the sound of these mics for $129.99 a pair with mogami cable and 3.5 mm Nuetik ends. I have a set in the loaner program now so you can get a chance to check them out.

Chris Church

Hey Chris what kind of capsules are you using for you cards? That is, if you'd like to share.

[madman]

But he is sending me a pair, so I'll run a head-to-head comparison with my beloved AT853's soon.  Watch this space...

That will be great, I've been thinking of picking up a set of cards to use in bad venues where my 4061s don't make the greatest tapes.  I've had 853s in the past, but would be open to something else.

Steve

[Church-Audio]

I am having a sale my cardioids sell for $129.99 a pair I am selling them this week only for $99 a pair.

Chris Church

But he is sending me a pair, so I'll run a head-to-head comparison with my beloved AT853's soon.  Watch this space...

That will be great, I've been thinking of picking up a set of cards to use in bad venues where my 4061s don't make the greatest tapes.  I've had 853s in the past, but would be open to something else.

Steve

[corsair]

find those recordings made from mics like cscs...which over-emphasize the high end real
irritating..but as U said, to each his own.

No offence, but I find Core's cardioids are a total waste of $$$...
The recordings are very thin sounding... missing alot of the low end..

go for the 853s...they're mint.

To each it's own. However I do find the "lack "( for lack of the better word ) the true strength of the Core Sound card's. Recordings always come out very clear And most important they come out very "direct ". I have used other mic's in the same pricerange like the MM's (the $ 250 ones) and although they do sound more bass-low end I miss the clarity and directness of the CSCD. I know at least 2 other fellow tapers who use nothing but CSCD for any type of recording and they wouldn't like to change to any other type of mic ( and of my friends is tapetrader and he heard a lot of recordings with other mic's ) .

[Church-Audio]

Are you talking about my cardioid mics? or someone else?

find those recordings made from mics like cscs...which over-emphasize the high end real
irritating..but as U said, to each his own.

No offence, but I find Core's cardioids are a total waste of $$$...
The recordings are very thin sounding... missing alot of the low end..

go for the 853s...they're mint.

To each it's own. However I do find the "lack "( for lack of the better word ) the true strength of the Core Sound card's. Recordings always come out very clear And most important they come out very "direct ". I have used other mic's in the same pricerange like the MM's (the $ 250 ones) and although they do sound more bass-low end I miss the clarity and directness of the CSCD. I know at least 2 other fellow tapers who use nothing but CSCD for any type of recording and they wouldn't like to change to any other type of mic ( and of my friends is tapetrader and he heard a lot of recordings with other mic's ) .

[corsair]

U own core sound?   

Are you talking about my cardioid mics? or someone else?

find those recordings made from mics like cscs...which over-emphasize the high end real
irritating..but as U said, to each his own.

No offence, but I find Core's cardioids are a total waste of $$$...
The recordings are very thin sounding... missing alot of the low end..

go for the 853s...they're mint.

To each it's own. However I do find the "lack "( for lack of the better word ) the true strength of the Core Sound card's. Recordings always come out very clear And most important they come out very "direct ". I have used other mic's in the same pricerange like the MM's (the $ 250 ones) and although they do sound more bass-low end I miss the clarity and directness of the CSCD. I know at least 2 other fellow tapers who use nothing but CSCD for any type of recording and they wouldn't like to change to any other type of mic ( and of my friends is tapetrader and he heard a lot of recordings with other mic's ) .

[Church-Audio]

No Church Audio

U own core sound?   

Are you talking about my cardioid mics? or someone else?

find those recordings made from mics like cscs...which over-emphasize the high end real
irritating..but as U said, to each his own.

No offence, but I find Core's cardioids are a total waste of $$$...
The recordings are very thin sounding... missing alot of the low end..

go for the 853s...they're mint.

To each it's own. However I do find the "lack "( for lack of the better word ) the true strength of the Core Sound card's. Recordings always come out very clear And most important they come out very "direct ". I have used other mic's in the same pricerange like the MM's (the $ 250 ones) and although they do sound more bass-low end I miss the clarity and directness of the CSCD. I know at least 2 other fellow tapers who use nothing but CSCD for any type of recording and they wouldn't like to change to any other type of mic ( and of my friends is tapetrader and he heard a lot of recordings with other mic's ) .

[hyperplane]

IMO, you will get better results with the AT853 vs. Core Sound. i think even the AT831s sound better than the Core Sound cardioids.
with the AT853s, you will get a warmer, fuller sound. with the Core Sounds, you will get a brighter, more brittle sound.

and also take a look at another user's comments on Core Sounds customer service. i've never read such a comment like that about Sound Professionals customer service).

lastly, i think a cheap pair ($75 or so) of used Core Sound mics are okay, if that's all a person can afford. but as the saying goes, you usually get what you pay for...

Im debating on getting one of these mics.  with battery module they both come to $250 so Im wondering if anyone here would prefer one over the other and why.  Or should I expect the same results from both? Is there another alternative at around the same price that would be better than both of these options?

here is the sound professional:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?item=SP-CMC-4

here is the core:
http://www.core-sound.com/cardioid/1.php

[nihilistic0]

I used to run the low cost core-sound cards, now Im running the at853

They pretty much own my old mics

[Javier Cinakowski]

I had the CS low cost cards and omni's.  My MM-SennheisersMKE40's are a huge improvement.  More cash though. 

 

[nihilistic0]

Reading back over some other comments, I see someone sai dthey had a very 'direct' sound.  I think this is true, and I did like that, but at the same time, the sound was kind of, I dunno, processed?  The AT853's arent as direct sounding but sound more natural

If I had a mic that had the directness of the core sound cards and the warmth of the at853, Id be quite happy

[anechoic]

also check out Reactive Sounds Auris stereo mic:
http://reactivesounds.com/am2.php
it uses two omni Panasonic omni caps
wonder if Chris @ Church Audio plans on offering stereo Omni's in the future?

[Church-Audio]

I do make stereo omni mics already I have been making them for over 3 years now


Chris Church
Church Audio


Quote author=anechoic link=topic=63797.msg863199#msg863199 date=1147290236]
also check out Reactive Sounds Auris stereo mic:
http://reactivesounds.com/am2.php
it uses two omni Panasonic omni caps
wonder if Chris @ Church Audio plans on offering stereo Omni's in the future?


[/quote]

[Ekib]

Reading back over some other comments, I see someone sai dthey had a very 'direct' sound.  I think this is true, and I did like that, but at the same time, the sound was kind of, I dunno, processed?  The AT853's arent as direct sounding but sound more natural

If I had a mic that had the directness of the core sound cards and the warmth of the at853, Id be quite happy

That was me making that comment .

I do find the problem with a lot of mic's the lack of directness . I think if you have a decent set up you can easily add a little bit "bass" to the sound . Or I usually switch on the " Loudness " button on my preamp . Not a big deal . I think the Core-Sound card's reproduce the exact live sound in the way that a concert is always "treble "sounding anyway...at full volume there is no such thing as a warm concert sound . It's just not possible at most live concerts . The highs always overrule the lows .
It's fine if people are looking for a " warm " sound but really it's just manipulating the original concert sound . The only way you hear a warmer ( muddier ) sound is when you wear earplugs ( like I always do ) . But the original sound is always very treble .
Therefore I think most Binaural mic's are even further from the truth since they have a ridicilous bass sound . I have heard many binaural recordings and they are sounding so unnatural to me ...and everything but direct . The problem is you can mix whatever you want but you can't ever get a direct sound if it's not direct . While if you are missing some bass you can always add it with a good equalizer / mixer . However the good thing about CSCD's are I never have to do much mixing or anything. Mostly I can leave the tone defeat off and enjoy the recording . Frankly , I hate mixing a live recording . That's another reason I dig CSCD .

Again , it's fine people don't like CSCD...it's all a matter of taste . I just want a mic that picks up the sound as it is . That's all that matters .

I see a few comments from people here comparing the low cost Stealth Core Sound Cards with other mic's . That'; not a fair comparision since it clearly stated on the Core Sound website that these mic's don't have the same specifications as the $ 250 mic's...

[Javier Cinakowski]

Ekib,  I feel much differently.  Omni's generally are much more transperant, direct, natural etc....  Only shitty omni's record with too much bass and sound muddy. 

Also,  concerts that have too much trebble are not mixed properly.  A good FOH mix will produce a nice warm sound.  bass is often much louder than the mids and highs. 

You core-sound mics have a tremndous bass roll off and are not representing the sound as it was.  I dissagree completely with your post.