Topic: M-S setup question

[china_rider]

Hey all... I've not had much success in my Mid Side recordings yet and just wanted to verify I've been setting up correctly.  So I've been putting the mid card in the right channel with the figure 8 in the left with the front of the figure 8 pattern facing left.  Is this what decoders in post are expecting?

[KLowe]

Side goes into the right channel with the positive lobe facing left.


I remember "Side" kindof rhymes with "right"

[John Willett]

Hey all... I've not had much success in my Mid Side recordings yet and just wanted to verify I've been setting up correctly.  So I've been putting the mid card in the right channel with the figure 8 in the left with the front of the figure 8 pattern facing left.  Is this what decoders in post are expecting?

Wrong channels - Mid is always left as this corresponds to a mono signal on an old half-track tape.

Side goes in the right - but you are correct in saying that the +ve lobe faces left.

[china_rider]

+T to all.  That explains the problem.  Glad I asked after only trying 2 shows... Also glad I was running my AKGs on the other 2 channels to save the show.

[anhisr]

Are you mixing on the fly or in post?

[china_rider]

Are you mixing on the fly or in post?

In post and I have the raw files so I can just reverse the channels and try again once I get some time.

[anhisr]

correct.  I have had to flip the channels when I first started doing M/S sometimes. 

[Frank in JC]

I know you've fixed the problem already, but...

Depending on the software you're using to mix, it may not matter which mic is which channel so long as you perform the the correct summing.  This assumes the positive lobe of the figure 8 is pointing left:

LEFT CHANNEL:  cardioid signal + figure 8 signal
RIGHT CHANNEL: cardioid signal - figure 8 signal  (which is same as, cardioid + out-of-phase figure 8 signal)

[ghellquist]

A quick fix may be to simply invert one of the channels (no need to redo the mix then). The main result of putting the M mic in the Righthand channel instead of left is that the channels get different phase getting a quite fuzzy stereo image. A simple invert of one of them will correct that part, putting the stereo back in the middle. You may try to listen for which one to invert -- some people can hear absolute phase but most cannot as far as I have tested.

Gunnar

[china_rider]

I went ahead and tried the chan swap for a show tonight.  It only took a few min to remix in wavelab.  It's better than the first mix... However, I'm still not happy with the results.  I think I was not running M-S in the right situations but was just playing around since I had 4 chan so I knew that I would have my AKGs as a backup.  Overall the mix lacks alot of bass and sounds bright enough that it comes close to giving me a headache after a few min.  There is good stereo separation though.

Now that I got the modded TLs back I think I'm going to try M-S on stage at On the One on Tuesday.  That should be a good test. 

Thanks for all the help,
Dana

[Frank in JC]

I went ahead and tried the chan swap for a show tonight.  It only took a few min to remix in wavelab.  It's better than the first mix... However, I'm still not happy with the results.  I think I was not running M-S in the right situations but was just playing around since I had 4 chan so I knew that I would have my AKGs as a backup.  Overall the mix lacks alot of bass and sounds bright enough that it comes close to giving me a headache after a few min.  There is good stereo separation though.

Now that I got the modded TLs back I think I'm going to try M-S on stage at On the One on Tuesday.  That should be a good test. 

Thanks for all the help,
Dana

If you're not hearing any bass, maybe somehow you're only getting the figure-8 mic, or it's too "heavy" in the mix?  (Figure 8s being light in the bass by virtue of their design.)

I've used the TL's mid-side several times in small venues and always liked the results.  I'll finally be putting them back to work soon and that's the pattern I'll probably stick with indoors.  BTW, what's involved in the mod?

[KLowe]

I agree.  Definately "tighten up" the m/s mix.  Two much side gives no bass and a headache.

Soundforges M/S tool is very simple to use.  Makes adjusting the width a breeze.

[china_rider]

BTW, what's involved in the mod?

It's a sort of unique one that Chris did by reqeust.... Put in some new caps and replaced alot of the electronics.

[DeepCreatures]

hope you don't mind me hopping on here china_rider...

the other day i finally gave the M-S a try.  i use an LSD2 and put the bottom on card and left it pointed straight ahead.  the top cap was put to figure-8 and rotated 90 degrees.  i recorded just like that with really great results (i was quite surprised actually), although the right channel seems a bit heavy.  the mix seems pretty solid, with good bass and all.  anyway, i keep reading about needing to do post mixing for the best sound, but am quite lost on what needs to be done and what the results are.  i currently use Cool Edit Pro.  any help would be appreciated.  thanks.

peace,
ts

[Roving Sign]

hope you don't mind me hopping on here china_rider...

the other day i finally gave the M-S a try.  i use an LSD2 and put the bottom on card and left it pointed straight ahead.  the top cap was put to figure-8 and rotated 90 degrees.  i recorded just like that with really great results (i was quite surprised actually), although the right channel seems a bit heavy.  the mix seems pretty solid, with good bass and all.  anyway, i keep reading about needing to do post mixing for the best sound, but am quite lost on what needs to be done and what the results are.  i currently use Cool Edit Pro.  any help would be appreciated.  thanks.

peace,
ts

Unless the LSD2 has a built in MS matrix circuit - you abosolutely need post work.

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/page.php?PID=126