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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: NOLAfishwater on June 15, 2009, 02:34:59 PM
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continue....
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Present.
Have not updated firmware yet but look forward to making use of the improved markers.
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bippity
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checking in.....
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howdy
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thump thump
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FWIW, I recently ran a pair of 44's as a master slave set up. The second one didn't even start near close to the first. I'd say about 2-3 seconds later. But the two clocks on the units were the same or at least close enough I couldn't tell the difference so it was just a matter of sliding the files of the second unit to match the first. I was suprised that the lag in start times was so different.
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FWIW, I recently ran a pair of 44's as a master slave set up. The second one didn't even start near close to the first. I'd say about 2-3 seconds later. But the two clocks on the units were the same or at least close enough I couldn't tell the difference so it was just a matter of sliding the files of the second unit to match the first. I was suprised that the lag in start times was so different.
...did you have pre-record on in one of the units?
digifish
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from the manual (pg.73)...
* Remote linking does not guarantee the exact same REC start time.
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checkin' in
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A colleague gets the same time difference every time he starts his two R-44's, and I think it's measurable in milliseconds rather than seconds.
Here's an extract from some emails -
"The two units were set up identically, except for one being nominated Master and one Slave. They were connected with a stereo cable of the type used for ipods and the like, as specified by Edirol. Results. The tracks were set up as a project in Sonar, where the horizontal scale was expanded until the steps of each wave were clearly visible. This showed that:
1. There is a time lag between tracks on the master and on the slave of 0.3 milliseconds, repeatable exactly in the three tests.
2. Tracks remained perfectly in synch after recording for half an hour.
Conclusion. For my purposes, near perfection."
Here he's running two R-44's in sync and seeing what happens at the 2GB file limit -
"With the recorders running at 4CHx1, 24/96 the files closed right on cue at 00:31:04.021 and about 0.3 ms. They started new files, perfectly in synch, with the new files starting about 0.15ms ahead of the closure of the completed files. This happened on each machine, perfectly in synch.
Auditioning of the sound files after I dragged the second file into the original file's track showed no glitch or problem of any sort. "
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FWIW, I recently ran a pair of 44's as a master slave set up. The second one didn't even start near close to the first. I'd say about 2-3 seconds later. But the two clocks on the units were the same or at least close enough I couldn't tell the difference so it was just a matter of sliding the files of the second unit to match the first. I was suprised that the lag in start times was so different.
...did you have pre-record on in one of the units?
digifish
Ah, ya know I never thought of that. It was a borrowed deck and I never even looked at that setting. Good call. I'd bet that was it. Next time I get a chance to try it I'll remember to check prerecord. Thanx!
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Checking in, got to try out a new Oade CM R-44 over the weekend at Bonnaroo, LOVE this deck, probably the easiest recoreder I've ever used. A couple notes on my experience so far:
• Using a batterygeek 10-14-100 12v battery with a ratshack adaptacable & two "M" tips (reverse polarity on the R-44 side) with NO problems. I've run it 6-8+ hours without even losing one light on the power meter. I keep duracell 2650 nimh rechargeables in the unit as backup or just to run if I need to start it quickly or listen after the shows. They work great.
• Using PNY & Transcend class 4 16GB SDHC cards with NO issues.
• After reading extensively and even emailing Doug about the proper level setting debate, I decided to go with Edirol's directions and set the inner (smooth) knob at 12:00 and adjust gain with the outer (clicky) knob, which I turns out I also ended up setting at 12:00 to get levels peaking around -12 to -6db. After the first show, I never touched either knob again for all the shows I taped, except for Del McCoury's bluegrass set which I had to kick it up another click. All this was done with NO clipping whatsoever on the gain stage, I never got the "blinking" channel name, and my recordings sound amazing. This is how I will continue to set levels, I doubt I'll ever touch the inner (smooth) knob.
Just a few thoughts, again, LOVE this recorder and will be sticking with it for quite a while...
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can anyone explain to me how to delete the blank files from ch1&2 when using just mod'd ch3&4 and havibg to run stereo x 2 to utilize the mod' ch's
stuck at the Roo and can't figure it out. 2 other r44 users here who can't figure it out either
you should have had channels 1and2 modded if you were only planning on running 2 channels with mics b/c when you select Stereo x 1 it only activates channels 1 & 2. So you must record in Stereo x 2 in order to utilize your modded channels. I assume you are having an issue with not having enough memory on your card to cover all 4 ch.
or he has different mods
some people have warm on 1/2 and trans on 3/4 (not sure if those are the correct terms but you prob know what i mean)
I was one of those trying to figure this out for Dustin at the Roo. Regarding the mods, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Oade Concert Mod upgrade all 4 channels, not just 3 & 4? Also it is my understanding Busman doesn't do the hybrid (warm on 1 & 2 and Trans on 3 & 4) with the R-44 due to size restraints. His webite lists a transparency mod on all 4 as the only option. I communicated with him before buying mine and he described it as actually a mix between the vintage (warm) and transparent mods, but made no mention of the hybrid...
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hey - quick question for you all. I am using my r44 this weekend for the first time in almost 8 months... I cant remember what format I used for recording in the past. I am running ana+digi (ana from a V2 ) and digi out of my minime. I am recording the whole thing at 24/96 to "mono x2" setting. should I use wav or BWF? I think I remember that the r44 seamlessly starts a new file at the 2gb limit with no glitches. is that correct? I would rather lay it down as wav files....
thanks!!
steve
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Mono X2 is not what you want. That setting will only record two tracks, either from inputs 1 & 2 or the digital input, depending on the analog/digital setting. The only file settings that will record a digital input is Stereo x1 or Stereo x 2.
Since you want to record 4 tracks total, you'll need to set the machine to Stereo x 2 which will create two interleaved stereo files (one from the digital input & one from the analog 3 & 4 inputs).
BWF or WAV is up to you, either works. Just depends if you'd like the extra BWF data in the file and if the software you use supports that file format. Most users here prefer straight WAV files.
The split at the 2GB file limit is seamless.
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you are right, I mis-typed. I have it set to record "stereo x 2"....
thanks for the info about wav vs. bwf!!!!!!!!!
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can anyone explain to me how to delete the blank files from ch1&2 when using just mod'd ch3&4 and havibg to run stereo x 2 to utilize the mod' ch's
stuck at the Roo and can't figure it out. 2 other r44 users here who can't figure it out either
you should have had channels 1and2 modded if you were only planning on running 2 channels with mics b/c when you select Stereo x 1 it only activates channels 1 & 2. So you must record in Stereo x 2 in order to utilize your modded channels. I assume you are having an issue with not having enough memory on your card to cover all 4 ch.
or he has different mods
some people have warm on 1/2 and trans on 3/4 (not sure if those are the correct terms but you prob know what i mean)
I was one of those trying to figure this out for Dustin at the Roo. Regarding the mods, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Oade Concert Mod upgrade all 4 channels, not just 3 & 4? Also it is my understanding Busman doesn't do the hybrid (warm on 1 & 2 and Trans on 3 & 4) with the R-44 due to size restraints. His webite lists a transparency mod on all 4 as the only option. I communicated with him before buying mine and he described it as actually a mix between the vintage (warm) and transparent mods, but made no mention of the hybrid...
good to know - guess i was thinking of a r4
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Just digging my R-44 8) First real session with it tonight: CLIP (http://www.archive.org/details/SPS7_clip)
Ch 1&2 - Crown PZM stereo pair, spaced 3', on 16" square plexiglass plates, inverted ~10' in the air on a tall stand. This method would be like taping the mics to a 10' high flat ceiling, if that's what the room had (this room has 16' high cathedral ceilings though). It's also about the same as just placing the mics on the floor, but the high position gives better angles/less shadowing to voices and instruments. Forgot to take pictures of this, again.
EDIT: here's a photo, set up outside -
(http://sanaka.smugmug.com/photos/578015291_mUoux-S.jpg) (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,123939.0.html)
Ch 3/4 - Avantone CK1 cards, spot micing guitars/vocals.
Recorded in 2x stereo, then the ch 3&4 stereo file split to 2 mono tracks. Post in Audition: Levels, gentle EQ & slight reverb added to spot mic tracks. These were also panned to ~ their real positions. Very sparing 'mastering' reverb (Ozone) added to the final stereo mixdown.
This is a difficult array of people and instruments to record, and not a real nice sounding room either. All things considered, I'm pretty stoked on the results, especially with how simple setting up was, and hence how I can be recordist but still concentrate on playing. The short clip with no vocals is because most of the people involved are totally mic shy and not into promoting themselves and I don't want anyone to feel violated in any way.
I'd appreciate any critique regarding the recording methodology and outcome.
Peace,
Sanaka
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I think it sounds great!
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Thanks Lee! :blush:
I posted that very late and now realize the focus on one clip is kinda OT for this thread. I'll prolly make a thread about it in the right place, as well as one about my new rig setup soon. I'm just stoked on my R-44!!!
Woohoo!!!
Peace
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Ch 1&2 - Crown PZM stereo pair, spaced 3', on 16" square plexiglass plates, inverted ~10' in the air on a tall stand. This method would be like taping the mics to a 10' high flat ceiling, if that's what the room had (this room has 16' high cathedral ceilings though). It's also about the same as just placing the mics on the floor, but the high position gives better angles/less shadowing to voices and instruments. Forgot to take pictures of this, again.
Not at a machine where I can hear the clip, but I'd love to see a photo of those plexiglass baffles on the stand if you do get a chance to snap some.
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• Using PNY & Transcend class 4 16GB SDHC cards with NO issues.
I am super excited to have a R-44 on the way, and was wondering if there is any consensus around here on memory cards? I want something dependable, but don't want to spend a fortune.
Thanks!
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i used 16gb toshiba and kingston cards without issues. all class 4
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So the lack of R-44's on the used market got me curious. Is anyone really displeased at all by their R-44? I mean I really love mine (we're closing in on our one year anniversary) and it has really only thrown me one curve ball by splitting a file just over the 2GB limit.
Other than that I would marry its cat just to sleep by its bed.
Discuss.
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I'm using 16gb transcend and PNY with no problems, both class 4. I too love this this thing, the ONLY complaint I have, and I just noticed this while taping at Bonnaroo, is if you adjust the outer (clicky) knob while recording, it results in a small, less than 1 second, dropout. Luckily, you will find that once you find the right setting for your mics, and the type of music you genarally record, you will rarely adjust the levels. Set it and forget it. However one day I was taping some bluegrass, and needed to increase the gain a couple clicks, and found this flaw...
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I'm using 16gb transcend and PNY with no problems, both class 4. I too love this this thing, the ONLY complaint I have, and I just noticed this while taping at Bonnaroo, is if you adjust the outer (clicky) knob while recording, it results in a small, less than 1 second, dropout. Luckily, you will find that once you find the right setting for your mics, and the type of music you genarally record, you will rarely adjust the levels. Set it and forget it. However one day I was taping some bluegrass, and needed to increase the gain a couple clicks, and found this flaw...
That seems like a big flaw. Anyone else have this happen? Do you get the dropouts when you adjust the inner knob?
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I don't adjust with the inner knob. I leave it at 12:00. I don't think it would though. Something about that stepped gain, and it having to change to the next increment, and it drops it for just split sec. Its not just a random error either. Im working on a 3 channel recording right now, and all three channels have the dropouts. It does however make it really easy to grab that section of the wav to normalize...
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Gutbucket: Will certainly be showing off my PZM configs soon! Just need to find a scrap of time to set up and take good photos.
if you adjust the outer (clicky) knob while recording, it results in a small, less than 1 second, dropout
Yoiks! :o Good to know. I hadn't noticed that but I know I adjusted down 1 click on a recording the other night I haven't reviewed yet...
• Using PNY & Transcend class 4 16GB SDHC cards with NO issues.
I am super excited to have a R-44 on the way, and was wondering if there is any consensus around here on memory cards? I want something dependable, but don't want to spend a fortune.
Thanks!
This jibes with what I read, uh, somewhere, probably on one of these R-44 threads, that it likes class 4 cards. The one card that a bunch of folks had trouble with was a class 6. I bought 2 Kingston 16G class 4 at B&H, ~$34 each. Have run 1x stereo, 2x stereo and 4x mono all without a hitch. The 8G ones are $17.50 right now at New Egg. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134482)
Peace,
Sanaka
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I'm using 16gb transcend and PNY with no problems, both class 4. I too love this this thing, the ONLY complaint I have, and I just noticed this while taping at Bonnaroo, is if you adjust the outer (clicky) knob while recording, it results in a small, less than 1 second, dropout. Luckily, you will find that once you find the right setting for your mics, and the type of music you genarally record, you will rarely adjust the levels. Set it and forget it. However one day I was taping some bluegrass, and needed to increase the gain a couple clicks, and found this flaw...
I think it only puts a noticeable gap if the knob gets moved slowly. When I click up the gain knob relatively quickly, it results in a gain increase without a noticeable dropout. At least that's my experience in listening and looking at the wav files. The only times I've noticed a dropout is when I've moved it kind of slow.
Regarding Rigpimp's question about opinions of the R-44, I've got to give it an A+ from my perspective. I've been very pleased. It has a few minor quirks, but overall it does a great job. I'd buy another in a minute if I had to.
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Here in Australia the price seems to have almost doubled since it was released - I'm certainly glad I got mine when I did (as soon as they became available). That, together with apparent scarcity 2nd hand, indicates that Edirol got it right with these. Certainly I can't picture ever buying another recorder again before I go to the great gig in the sky.
I wonder what the next such device from Edirol would be - eight channels in a broadly similar format? Though the ability to link two perhaps undermines that. As the market matures the various manufacturers must be scratching their heads to think up a device which would (a) attract people to buy who currently have nothing similar and (b) attract people who have something similar, but the new device would be so much better that it would be irresistibly tempting. So what would that be??
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I'm using 16gb transcend and PNY with no problems, both class 4. I too love this this thing, the ONLY complaint I have, and I just noticed this while taping at Bonnaroo, is if you adjust the outer (clicky) knob while recording, it results in a small, less than 1 second, dropout. Luckily, you will find that once you find the right setting for your mics, and the type of music you genarally record, you will rarely adjust the levels. Set it and forget it. However one day I was taping some bluegrass, and needed to increase the gain a couple clicks, and found this flaw...
That seems like a big flaw. Anyone else have this happen? Do you get the dropouts when you adjust the inner knob?
I haven't had that problem at all and I have made outer-ring adjustments many times. In fact if I can find the exact right spot where I made the change and amp or atten from there its not even a noticeable blip even when you know its there. If you get a bit off the spot sometimes you will get a tiny hiccup in the sound.
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I have adjusted the outer ring on occasion and normally do it quickly enough that I only get the 5-6db jump or drop. No dropout of sound at all.
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...manufacturers must be scratching their heads to think up a device which would (a) attract people to buy who currently have nothing similar and (b) attract people who have something similar, but the new device would be so much better that it would be irresistibly tempting. So what would that be??
A 788T-SSD (http://www.sounddevices.com/news/788t-ssd) for <$1000 ;D
Peace
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I have adjusted the outer ring on occasion and normally do it quickly enough that I only get the 5-6db jump or drop. No dropout of sound at all.
Zoom
Way
In
I bet it's there. My deck as well does this but you don't hear it on playback, but I also adjust one channel at a time because of this.
I am currently using a Sandisk 16gb class 2 card that i bought for cheap (local) purchase and I run 4x mono 24/44 or 24/48. All my other cards are class 4.
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I have adjusted the outer ring on occasion and normally do it quickly enough that I only get the 5-6db jump or drop. No dropout of sound at all.
Zoom
Way
In
I bet it's there. My deck as well does this but you don't hear it on playback, but I also adjust one channel at a time because of this.
I am currently using a Sandisk 16gb class 2 card that i bought for cheap (local) purchase and I run 4x mono 24/44 or 24/48. All my other cards are class 4.
Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but with this outer ring dropout, would it be better to adjust the inner ring?
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Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but with this outer ring dropout, would it be better to adjust the inner ring?
Indeed it's probably the most discussed aspect of this recorder, but to summarise, if you need to lower the preamp level (controlled by the outer clicky ring) lowering the inner smooth knob will not help - it's controlling the level (almost certainly digitally) after any distortion at the preamp, so you'd just get lower level audio with lower level distortion.
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Not trying to start any crap or nothin' ;D, but I've taped a bunch of shows and moved levels around with the outer knob and I've only noticed a slight gap maybe a couple of times. I think you have to be pretty slow to get an audible gap. Perhaps on the inaudible gaps if I were to zoom in close enough I might see that there is indeed some small gap in the wav file, but I've got to say I've looked at those transitions before (relatively zoomed in too) and haven't really seen much of a gap present.
I dunno...seems like much ado about nothing. ;D
So, I guess what I mean to say is this: don't be afraid to adjust the outer knob.
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Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but with this outer ring dropout, would it be better to adjust the inner ring?
Indeed it's probably the most discussed aspect of this recorder, but to summarise, if you need to lower the preamp level (controlled by the outer clicky ring) lowering the inner smooth knob will not help - it's controlling the level (almost certainly digitally) after any distortion at the preamp, so you'd just get lower level audio with lower level distortion.
Thanks for clarifying!
I went back and read most of the last thread, starting to understand all this stuff. I figured out the external power situation, now just need to get a couple of sd cards. Can't wait for the maiden voyage!
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Thanks for clarifying!
I went back and read most of the last thread, starting to understand all this stuff. I figured out the external power situation, now just need to get a couple of sd cards. Can't wait for the maiden voyage!
Go get yourself one of these sdhc cards (http://www.amazon.com/PNY-Class-Flash-Memory-P-SDHC16G4-FS/dp/B001518O24/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1246665585&sr=8-1)
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I went with a Kingston 16 gig--this ebay seller has them for $35, with a usb adapter.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Kingston-16GB-SD-HC-SDHC-Class-4-Memory-Card-16-GB-16G_W0QQitemZ190315409452QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDigital_Camera_Memory_Cards?hash=item2c4faeb02c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|293%3A1|294%3A50
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Tried this same question on the Team R-44 thread with no luck.
Any comments on the sound of any of the mods from owners who have had their R-44s modded? Thinking about getting it done on mine. Just curious on the sound difference between the Oade's or Busman mods. Any favorites amongst the mods? Much of a difference between Busman and Oade?
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Tried this same question on the Team R-44 thread with no luck.
Any comments on the sound of any of the mods from owners who have had their R-44s modded? Thinking about getting it done on mine. Just curious on the sound difference between the Oade's or Busman mods. Any favorites amongst the mods? Much of a difference between Busman and Oade?
I saw you post there too. Mine is not modded but I borrowed a modded one recently (Thanks Danny!) and was originally hoping to do some switches between sets to see what the differences were. That never happened. All I can say is that the Busman mod sounded good. Not much help and I can't offer any kind of concrete comparisons. The other downside to mine opinion is that I have never used the stock pres so I can't even begin to say how it compares to stock let alone O vs B. Not really much help there sorry, kirk
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Tried this same question on the Team R-44 thread with no luck.
Any comments on the sound of any of the mods from owners who have had their R-44s modded? Thinking about getting it done on mine. Just curious on the sound difference between the Oade's or Busman mods. Any favorites amongst the mods? Much of a difference between Busman and Oade?
first off, unless you bought your deck from oade, he will not mod it. busman will do modifications to a unit that was not purchased from him.
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I think Oade is now offering upgrades to machines he didn't sell. Except for PMD661s...
EDIT: Looking at the Oade site, it appears that he will upgrade R-44s purchased elsewhere. The only two he says must be purchased from him are the PMD661 and PMD620. http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/upgrades.html (http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/upgrades.html)
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I think Oade is now offering upgrades to machines he didn't sell. Except for PMD661s...
EDIT: Looking at the Oade site, it appears that he will upgrade R-44s purchased elsewhere. The only two he says must be purchased from him are the PMD661 and PMD620. http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/upgrades.html (http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/upgrades.html)
looks like he increased his prices. didn't he sell the modded R44 for $900? now it is listed at $1045
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Anyone here use any of the on board effects while recording ?
I tried the "emphasis" effect for a set last night. Its like a small compressor or something, it really made a difference in the presence. I can see this coming in handy.
i
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I'm worried I'd #$%$ up a recording with an effect that isn't reversible. I'd use a straight channel delay effect if that was available though.
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Anyone here use any of the on board effects while recording ?
I tried the "emphasis" effect for a set last night. Its like a small compressor or something, it really made a difference in the presence. I can see this coming in handy.
i
Do tell more. I have not used any effects and as a rule do things in post but I am curious how it made a difference in the presence?
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its in the kickdown. kimock 7-8-9
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My Busman modded R-44 is shipping tomorrow. ;D
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http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,124251.new.html#new
you can check out the "emphasis" effect, which was engaged in the first set.
in the car, it sounds superior. cuts the chatter almost, really brings the loudest sounds very forward.
on the main system, it still sounds good. set two almost sounds a bit flat w/o the effect in place.
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Thanx, did the DL but haven't had a chance to listen yet. Is this something you could see yourself using regularly?
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unsure. certainly will try it again though.
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I recently stumbled upon someone writing in another forum about the Timecode "capabilities" of the R-44. Since I haven't found anything about his point in this forum (correct me if I'm wrong) but find it quite interesting, here it is: If you record BWF files, you get a tagged freerun Timecode. With a video camera that can record freerun TC and an editing suite that can read it (Final Cut Pro and Avid can do it) you should somehow (I didn't figure out how exactly though) be able to sync all of the video with all of the audio by adjusting the audio with the video TCs (should work with any slate clap).
I opened one of the BWF files recorded with my R-44 in Quicktime, pressed Ctrl+J and activated the Timecode bar. That way I get the freerun TC (though it doesn't look like a real day time code).
This seems to be an important feature for audio for video production.
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unsure. certainly will try it again though.
I assume that you are referring to the enhancer effect(pg. 59 of manual). Gave it a listen and it is an interesting effect, no doubt. What did you have the settings at? IE: sense, level & mix. Just the default setting? So it seems the effect adds a phase shifted signal to the input. Could that could account for the lower crowd noise due to a canceling effect by out of phase signal? I listened to the crowd chatter at the beginning of set 1 track 1 and set 2 track 2 and there is a very distinct difference between them. And there is a very obvious difference between running the effect and no effect. Maybe someone smarter than I can explain the pros and cons of adding a phase shifted signal? Is it a totally out of phase signal or are you controlling how much the phase difference is by the menu settings? And what is the difference between the sense(sensitivity) setting and the level(volume)? That is the one thing I've noticed about the R-44 manual is that sometimes the descriptions of things seem a little vague.
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very vague indeed.
no difference in perceived volume really, the gain was set the same for both sets.
the effect does not make the recording out of phase, while it may adjust the way those OOP signals are handled, but it does not completely reverse it.
I was thinking it was a slight compression / limiter / mid range boost.
but the manual doesn't really specify exactly what is happening.
One thing you can do is add the effect to the raw recording for playback only. that way you can preserve the master as raw, and then see what the effect does or doesn't do for you. the downfall is that I dont think you can apply the effect to the raw recording after the fact. Not w/o doing a real time transfer w/the effect engaged.
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...Not w/o doing a real time transfer w/the effect engaged.
Which might be worth doing on a sample of something. That way the raw vs. enhanced signal could be analyzed in software to see what exactly the effect is doing. From there, one could probably hack a decent simulation of the effect via their software and be able to apply it in post if/when desired. I may even get out of my armchair and try it sometime...
Peace,
Sanaka
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Sorry to be such a noob loser, but I have my R-44 debut tomorrow night, and want to check a couple things. I think I'm all set on power, sd card, level adjusting, but couldn't figure out the right setting for 2 x stereo (will be running two sets of mics). Also, I have not done much 24 bit recording. Is there a good reason to go 24/96? I'd rather do 44 or 48 to save some space, try to avoid the 2 gig limit. Thoughts? And thanks for helping this noob get it together.
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Sorry to be such a noob loser, but I have my R-44 debut tomorrow night, and want to check a couple things. I think I'm all set on power, sd card, level adjusting, but couldn't figure out the right setting for 2 x stereo (will be running two sets of mics). Also, I have not done much 24 bit recording. Is there a good reason to go 24/96? I'd rather do 44 or 48 to save some space, try to avoid the 2 gig limit. Thoughts? And thanks for helping this noob get it together.
under recorder settings change it to 2 x stereo. If you are recording analog in then select Analog. If you are running a preamp W/SPDIF, you will select Dig + Analog. Under this setting your SPDIF will use channels 1&2 and analog in will be under 3&4. I run 24/48 as there is no need to go to a higher sample rate for my needs. I watch my clock and when I get to 1:45 of a 2hr + long show, I start a new track in between songs. This allows for you not to have to deal with the 2GB split which can cause you problems in post if your editing program can only handle 2GB files.
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Wow--thanks for the quick reply!
I don't have the recorder here so I can't look, but the only 2 x stereo I could seem to find was dig + analog. Do I need to have stuff plugged in to be able to access the 2 x stereo analog, or are there two different settings: 2 x stereo, and dig/ana? Or I am just completely missing it?
And for the file splitting, do you need to start new tracks around :50 when running 4 tracks, or are the 2 files separate?
And last question, I swear: is it imperative that I do the firmware upgrade before tomorrow?
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Two different settings, both under recording setup
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/865/picture5szv.png)
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And for the file splitting, do you need to start new tracks around :50 when running 4 tracks, or are the 2 files separate?
How I think of it all is, at 24bit x 48khz, you get almost exactly 2 hours per gigabyte per track per file. Since a stereo file has two tracks, you get 1 hour of stereo per gig. Running the R-44 at STEREOx2 indeed means it is making two separate stereo files, so you still get two hours before the file splits happen.
What I never thought of until just now is that if we record mono tracks (MONOx2 or 4) we should be able to record for four hours before file split! You'd have to restore stereo in post though, by panning the respective tracks to L & R.
Peace,
Sanaka
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Hey--thanks again for all the advice. The maiden voyage went pretty well--what a nice machine! It was fun to run two sets of mics into the same deck and then play back all the different combinations afterward. The only thing I messed up was not stopping the wind, which was blowing a little too hard for the stock screens on the AT's. Strangely, the wind noise was less audible on the shotguns with no screens.
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This morning's gig was full set of tuned percussion (marimaba, vibes, glockenspiel, etc etc), Steinway grand piano, and violin, playing contemporary classical music in the fine new recital hall here. By force of circumstance I had to record it with a stereo pair (Sennheiser MKH MS) and a single spot mic (for the violin). Monitoring was via Naiant's excellent custom built four-channel monitor mixer to give me an immediate feel of the mix I can get in post-production. I sat there with a silly grin on my face listening to excellent sound - lots of crisp sparkle, bottom end of the piano all there, silent between movements (the hall is about as quiet as any on this planet) and peaking to -3dB on the percussion transients.
One hell of a recorder - and all in a palm-size package.
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One hell of a recorder - and all in a palm-size package.
Memo to self: remember not to shake hands with Ozpeter.
Jeff
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(http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/19073.jpg)
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Just as I suspected. As he needs an avatar, too, that will do nicely.
Jeff
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I recently purchased an R44. I played with the settings and did some test recordings at home but have not yet used it in the field.
I purchased this Transcend 16 GB Class 6 SDHC card.
http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-Memory-TS16GSDHC6E-Frustration-Free-Packaging/dp/B001ECQVTM/ref=pd_cp_e_3
In my brief testing the card seems to work fine but I have seen several posts recommending class 4 cards.
Why would you want to use a class 4 card vs a class 6 card? Are there know issues with the R44 and class 6 cards?
Sorry if this is explained someplace but I couldn't find it.
Joe
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Class 4 is usually cheaper, that's all. As I recall it I did some early tests with a class 2 card and it actually worked fine. But I use class 6 just to be sure.
Oh, and yes, perhaps 'Palm size' was an exaggeration - but the R-44 encourages wild enthusiasm!
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Ok here is one post about the class 6 but it seems to apply to the 16gb card the smaller class 6 worked fine.
Joe
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,97893.msg1304350.html#msg1304350
R-44 fresh out of the gate, original firmware
- While running Digital In (16/44.1) onto aTranscend 16gb type 6 sdhc card, I continually encountered the "SD SLOW ERROR". This error surfaced when the card was 1/2 full as well as newly formatted. After switching the 16gb card with a Transcend 4gb type 6 card, I have not encountered the issue again.
- I've had issues with Transcend 16 gb cards as well. Panasonic and Toshiba 16gb cards are the only ones that have been tested and proved to work
- I've been doing digital-in @ 24/44 with a 8GB Transcend class 6 card with no issues.
- 8gb Adata class6 sdhc cards are working great...4ch digi+analog @ 24/48 stereox2.
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Further caution about class 6 cards:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,103270.15.html
Ozpeter, I thought the one you had trouble with was class 6 as well?
I returned some Transcend 16G class 6 in favor of some Kingston class 4 based on posts here (they've been flawless so far).
Peace,
Sanaka
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I had a Transcend 8GB die on me but the replacement (identical) has been fine - so far... I think I was perhaps just unlucky. Obviously if they had a really high failure rate, they'd be out of business - there are no secrets on the internet!
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Did my second and third shows with the R-44, and I'm LOVING everything about this little deck except for the level knobs. That one little click is too big a jump and too abrupt for my taste. Seems to me this is designed to just set it and leave it, which is fine--except when you really need to adjust your levels. Maybe that big jump is easier to deal with in post, but I'd at least like to have the option to make a gentle, smooth adjustment. Sorry of this has been covered elsewhere, but can someone shed some light on the reason for the design?
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so keep the attenuation knob backed off a little bit. that way you have some smooth "wiggle room" to adjust. run it a "click" too quiet and then add to it by backing off on the trim.
thats what I do..., but I'm not overly concerned w/levels on most stuff I record. If its too quiet, I bump it in post. I try to keep things peaking around -6db
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I suspect that it's designed for repeatability of setting, and accurate setting across all four channels. After the first couple of outings I'd expect you'll know which notch is for you. Even using 16 bits only, it's quiet enough that being two notches (12dB except for the only notch that's 12dB in one jump) under-recorded isn't going to matter that much, even less so in 24 bits.
Of course if you use it with different external gear every time there's more of a problem but I imagine most people have a pretty standard rig.
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It was discussed here that making changes to the outer knob while recording leaves a small gap in the wav form. It does, at least if you don't make the adjustment fast enough, but I wasn't able to actually hear the gap. In an odd way its handy in that I can set my cursor right where I made the change and + or - the multiple of 6db to get the levels in line.
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I went ahead and ordered a Kingston 16gb class 4 card today. I had always had good luck with Transcend cards but it sounds like there have been a few issues with their class 6 cards.
I did a cassette to SDHC transfer for someone today using the R-44 and the transcend card. No issues but it was only 16/44.
No problem that I already bought the transcend card. I can always use it to increase the storage in my little SSD Asus EEE computer.
Joe
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There is a lot of material on the board for the R-44, so I'll just ask...
Has anyone had a problem with recorded files not showing up on the card? I recorded a couple of different performances at Pickathon but I'm not seeing them on the card right now. I'm kind of anal, so I know I was recording when I thought I was (and not on pause, or similar). Recordings on either side of that chunk of time are present on the card, but a couple of files in the "middle" of the day are missing. Very odd, and kind of depressing. Oh well...glad there were other tapers there. This is the first time I've encountered an issue with the deck. Strange.
It was a new card, but it looks like the first two recordings I made on the card are intact. Strange that the missing files are in the middle of the day. Recordings on either side of that time-slot appear to be intact.
::)
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There is a lot of material on the board for the R-44, so I'll just ask...
Has anyone had a problem with recorded files not showing up on the card? I recorded a couple of different performances at Pickathon but I'm not seeing them on the card right now. I'm kind of anal, so I know I was recording when I thought I was (and not on pause, or similar). Recordings on either side of that chunk of time are present on the card, but a couple of files in the "middle" of the day are missing. Very odd, and kind of depressing. Oh well...glad there were other tapers there. This is the first time I've encountered an issue with the deck. Strange.
It was a new card, but it looks like the first two recordings I made on the card are intact. Strange that the missing files are in the middle of the day. Recordings on either side of that time-slot appear to be intact.
::)
did you format your card before using it?
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did you format your card before using it?
Yep.
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There is a lot of material on the board for the R-44, so I'll just ask...
Has anyone had a problem with recorded files not showing up on the card? I recorded a couple of different performances at Pickathon but I'm not seeing them on the card right now. I'm kind of anal, so I know I was recording when I thought I was (and not on pause, or similar). Recordings on either side of that chunk of time are present on the card, but a couple of files in the "middle" of the day are missing. Very odd, and kind of depressing. Oh well...glad there were other tapers there. This is the first time I've encountered an issue with the deck. Strange.
It was a new card, but it looks like the first two recordings I made on the card are intact. Strange that the missing files are in the middle of the day. Recordings on either side of that time-slot appear to be intact.
::)
I had an issue recently with a chunk disappearing from the middle of a recording but not whole files missing. I suspect a bad card but have not had it happen again(yet). are you using a card reader or the deck to access the files? If you are not, try using the deck to see if it makes a difference. Don't really know what else it copuld be. I'd also look at file names, are the consecutive or are the missing file name/numbers missing too?
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And for the file splitting, do you need to start new tracks around :50 when running 4 tracks, or are the 2 files separate?
What I never thought of until just now is that if we record mono tracks (MONOx2 or 4) we should be able to record for four hours before file split! You'd have to restore stereo in post though, by panning the respective tracks to L & R.
Always my mode of operation. This may not be "pure", but sometimes I don't pan each all the way left and all the way right...what sounds best to me on some recordings is a few percentage points mixed in the middle. But, then again, I don't get crazy about measuring my mic positions up on the stand...
--Michael
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Thanks for the note. Yes, the filenames are consecutive. I've tried reading from the deck as well as by putting the card into a computer. The files just appear to be "gone". Very odd. I'm chalking it up to card error right now. Maybe I should just send this card back to Newegg for a replacement? Hmmm...
There is a lot of material on the board for the R-44, so I'll just ask...
Has anyone had a problem with recorded files not showing up on the card? I recorded a couple of different performances at Pickathon but I'm not seeing them on the card right now. I'm kind of anal, so I know I was recording when I thought I was (and not on pause, or similar). Recordings on either side of that chunk of time are present on the card, but a couple of files in the "middle" of the day are missing. Very odd, and kind of depressing. Oh well...glad there were other tapers there. This is the first time I've encountered an issue with the deck. Strange.
It was a new card, but it looks like the first two recordings I made on the card are intact. Strange that the missing files are in the middle of the day. Recordings on either side of that time-slot appear to be intact.
::)
I had an issue recently with a chunk disappearing from the middle of a recording but not whole files missing. I suspect a bad card but have not had it happen again(yet). are you using a card reader or the deck to access the files? If you are not, try using the deck to see if it makes a difference. Don't really know what else it copuld be. I'd also look at file names, are the consecutive or are the missing file name/numbers missing too?
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Thanks for the note. Yes, the filenames are consecutive. I've tried reading from the deck as well as by putting the card into a computer. The files just appear to be "gone". Very odd. I'm chalking it up to card error right now. Maybe I should just send this card back to Newegg for a replacement? Hmmm...
There is a lot of material on the board for the R-44, so I'll just ask...
Has anyone had a problem with recorded files not showing up on the card? I recorded a couple of different performances at Pickathon but I'm not seeing them on the card right now. I'm kind of anal, so I know I was recording when I thought I was (and not on pause, or similar). Recordings on either side of that chunk of time are present on the card, but a couple of files in the "middle" of the day are missing. Very odd, and kind of depressing. Oh well...glad there were other tapers there. This is the first time I've encountered an issue with the deck. Strange.
It was a new card, but it looks like the first two recordings I made on the card are intact. Strange that the missing files are in the middle of the day. Recordings on either side of that time-slot appear to be intact.
::)
I had an issue recently with a chunk disappearing from the middle of a recording but not whole files missing. I suspect a bad card but have not had it happen again(yet). are you using a card reader or the deck to access the files? If you are not, try using the deck to see if it makes a difference. Don't really know what else it copuld be. I'd also look at file names, are the consecutive or are the missing file name/numbers missing too?
On any file issues i've had with a SD/CF card, Data Doctor Recovery has worked. Give it a try before the reformat or send back/toss.
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My R-44 needed attention within the first year due to failure of the external power input. The chief problem was that the repair centre had never had one in before and needed to obtain the service manual which took a while, though I think the actual parts required were not so much of an issue. This is in Australia so YMMV.
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Is there a way to zoom or set the level meters db range?
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No, you can't change the range of the meters.
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I cooked mine the other night.
came home from a gig, wanted to plug it in and listen to the show..., grabbed the wrong AC adapter....,
no lights. no power. nadda.
internal batteries will still power it.
anyone else had this misfortune in the past?
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Bummer, wondering if there is an internal fuse that can be easily replaced.
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That happened to mine. It spent a few weeks being fixed - the guy said it wasn't just a fuse - I believe it involved some brain surgery to surface mount components.
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yea, no fuse. I took it all apart to check. nothing.
its got to have some sort of circuit protection, but its more than just a fuse.
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I'm thinking on buying an R44, possibly a modded one when I'm in the states in December. What's the teams collective experience regarding the reliability of the unit?
And what's the general feeling when it comes to a model update?
Thanks from Sweden
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There have been few reports of problems - the problem with mine arose under unusual conditions shall we say, and I'm not inclined to blame the unit for the problem that ensued.
And what's the general feeling when it comes to a model update?
You mean, what's around the corner with the next model? Guesswork. Better monitoring hopefully (pan and level of output).
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Yeah I hear that. OTOH that shouldn't be much of an issue for me since I plan to do alot of either ORTF+ambience, ORTF + outriggers, AB+ outriggers or AB+ambience. Not so much support mics with this fellow...
Just wouldn't want to go through the hassle of buying it from the states and have a new model pop up next day. Who would?
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I get the feeling that Edirol are not into releasing new products at a great rate - more into releasing well designed gear that has a good product life before being eventually superceded. But who can tell...
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You've also got to figure in the state of the economy right now, is this really a good time to roll out a new product? Who is going to buy it if they are tight on money? When you add that there is a new version of SD card coming out and a new version of USB coming out, they would probably wait and incorporate those features. But I'm only guessing.
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A question for those who've had errors or failures with the R-44 and various SD cards: Did the errors always occur either the first time the card was used at all or the first time it was filled to capacity?
In other words, if the recorder can make it through a test recording that fills the card (at the sampling rate and number of tracks that you intend to use for your real recording), can you trust that card from then on?
--best regards
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My errors have only been w/Transend cards, and only affecting channels 1&2 when doing a stereo x 2 setting.
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My problem was on a first time use. No issues since the first error so far. It was a polariod/PNY class4 card
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I have never had card-related problems. I returned my NIB 8GB Transcend card once I read there were widespread problems with them. I happily use the PNY 16GB card made for HD video without any problems. My backup card is an 8GB Patriot.
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I had a perfectly good 8gb Adata class 6 card go dead somewhere between transferring the files, and the next use...it's just dead, nothing recognizes it.
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No problems with my Kingston 16 gig class 4 card... (knock on wood)
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Just thought I'd tie in the clock discussion on the Team R-44 thread in case y'all don't check that:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,119049.90.html
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Anyone else ever get "Skipping unknown sub-chunk" errors when FLACing R-44 files? (larger 24/48 files if it matters) The files seem fine, and I know this has something to do with the wave header, but I'd like to be able to convert these, would love any advice.
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Just a guess but are you recording to the BCW format rather than just Wav? Maybe the flac formatting programs doesn't understand the extra information in the BCW format and is ignoring it.
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Just a guess but are you recording to the BCW format rather than just Wav? Maybe the flac formatting programs doesn't understand the extra information in the BCW format and is ignoring it.
ding ding ding
Thanks!
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My errors have only been w/Transend cards, and only affecting channels 1&2 when doing a stereo x 2 setting.
I use
8g Transend
16g Transend
8g kingston
16g kingston
8g SanDisk ultra 2
I've used them in all (well most) situations possible without a hitch.
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Just thought I'd tie in the clock discussion on the Team R-44 thread in case y'all don't check that:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,119049.90.html
Word is in from Edirol: The sync cable DOES NOT lock the clocks on different machines. In depth discussion in Team R-44
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Anyone around here run km140s straight into a stock R-44? How's that work out for ya?
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Anyone around here run km140s straight into a stock R-44? How's that work out for ya?
I don't have a stock R-44, mine is an Oade mod, but I'm pleased with the sound of the 140s directly in. Although lately I've started running thru an Aerco then to the R-44, and that fattens things up a bit. But the sound straight into the R-44 is pretty damned good.
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I think I'm going to have go against the CW on the r-44 level adjusting. Unless I can hear something bad, I'm switching back to using the outer (clicky knob) for rough adjustments before the music starts, and spinning the inner (smooth) knob for on-the-fly. Those 6db jumps are just too rough, and the dropouts too noticeable.
I know the recommendation is to leave the inner knob at 12 o'clock, but my ears tell me otherwise.
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The inner knob is digital gain. If you lower the level using it, you are still getting analog clipping but recording that analog clipping at a lower digital level. If you increase the digital gain you are not doing anything you couldn't do more safely in your DAW software later. Unless you do no post-production there is no logical use for the digital gain control.
After the first few outings you should have a pretty good idea of what clicky knob setting to use with your normal mics (and preamp if any).
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If you run in 24 bit, how hot do you run your levels? Why not run at lower peaks in 24 bit and normalise in post giving yourself more headroom without the raised noisefloor of 16 bit? Thus making changing levels on the fly less an issue.
I think I'm going to have go against the CW on the r-44 level adjusting. Unless I can hear something bad, I'm switching back to using the outer (clicky knob) for rough adjustments before the music starts, and spinning the inner (smooth) knob for on-the-fly. Those 6db jumps are just too rough, and the dropouts too noticeable.
I know the recommendation is to leave the inner knob at 12 o'clock, but my ears tell me otherwise.
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The inner knob is digital gain. If you lower the level using it, you are still getting analog clipping but recording that analog clipping at a lower digital level. If you increase the digital gain you are not doing anything you couldn't do more safely in your DAW software later. Unless you do no post-production there is no logical use for the digital gain control.
Actually I found one. I have my line outs set to monitor and have been on occasion using it to feed the line in of another recorder. Once I have the analog gain set I can use the digital gain to fine tune the levels so the line out signal is better mixed.
I also did the same thing but was feeding another PA so people outside the club could hear the show inside. They loved it!
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To clarify: By setting the line outs to 'monitor' I mean I'm using four channels in and outputting stereo on the line outs.
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Question about the "Limiter Link" function. The manual isn't very clear on this. In circumstances when I'm running 2 mic + board feed, I would like to use the limiter on the board feed when its hot but not on the mics. The "link" command only seems to link together two channels for the limiter rather than "turn off" the limiter for channel where you don't want it used. Or am I misreading this?
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Question about the "Limiter Link" function. The manual isn't very clear on this. In circumstances when I'm running 2 mic + board feed, I would like to use the limiter on the board feed when its hot but not on the mics. The "link" command only seems to link together two channels for the limiter rather than "turn off" the limiter for channel where you don't want it used. Or am I misreading this?
There are seperate settings for linking channels and for turning on the compressor for playback, for recording, or both. You can link your two SBD channels (either ch 1&2 or 3&4) or have the compressor working them independently as you wish, but you also need to set the box on the display labled REC to ON for that channel pair or for both channels if not linked. The effects button will then light indicating that an effect (in this case the compressor) is in use.
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Question about the "Limiter Link" function. The manual isn't very clear on this. In circumstances when I'm running 2 mic + board feed, I would like to use the limiter on the board feed when its hot but not on the mics. The "link" command only seems to link together two channels for the limiter rather than "turn off" the limiter for channel where you don't want it used. Or am I misreading this?
Limiter is an on or off setting with control as to how it is set up on the 4 channels. You cannot have it only work on two channels. It is all 4 or nothing. You can only select how you would like the limiter to act on the 4 channels.
I've never used the limiter, has anyone else? wondering how it sounds when engaged.
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Question about the "Limiter Link" function. The manual isn't very clear on this. In circumstances when I'm running 2 mic + board feed, I would like to use the limiter on the board feed when its hot but not on the mics. The "link" command only seems to link together two channels for the limiter rather than "turn off" the limiter for channel where you don't want it used. Or am I misreading this?
Limiter is an on or off setting with control as to how it is set up on the 4 channels. You cannot have it only work on two channels. It is all 4 or nothing. You can only select how you would like the limiter to act on the 4 channels.
I've never used the limiter, has anyone else? wondering how it sounds when engaged.
That was kind of what I feared. I have been forced to use it on occasion when getting a very hot soundboard feed and I'm not in a position to lower the levels of the feed. Its a hard limiter from what I understand so there are definitely compression issues, but they certainly beat brickwalling.
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Question about the "Limiter Link" function. The manual isn't very clear on this. In circumstances when I'm running 2 mic + board feed, I would like to use the limiter on the board feed when its hot but not on the mics. The "link" command only seems to link together two channels for the limiter rather than "turn off" the limiter for channel where you don't want it used. Or am I misreading this?
Limiter is an on or off setting with control as to how it is set up on the 4 channels. You cannot have it only work on two channels. It is all 4 or nothing. You can only select how you would like the limiter to act on the 4 channels.
I've never used the limiter, has anyone else? wondering how it sounds when engaged.
That was kind of what I feared. I have been forced to use it on occasion when getting a very hot soundboard feed and I'm not in a position to lower the levels of the feed. Its a hard limiter from what I understand so there are definitely compression issues, but they certainly beat brickwalling.
Fwiw I'd go ahead and use the outer ring and live with the tiny drop out it creates. I don't think you'll notice it in a matrix situation. The other thing I've found is that I almost always run with the outer gain setting turned all the way down and only use the inner knob if needed. Even if the levels are a little low since it's 24bit I just add gain in post. I also think that there was a detailed discussion on the limiter in the Team R-44 thread a while ago. If I recall the consensus was to run levels lower and add gain in post, I think that it is more like a pad as opposed to a true limiter. I might not be remembering it correctly, you would have to find the thread. Hope that helps, Kirk
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Limiter is an on or off setting with control as to how it is set up on the 4 channels. You cannot have it only work on two channels. It is all 4 or nothing. You can only select how you would like the limiter to act on the 4 channels.
I've never used the limiter, has anyone else? wondering how it sounds when engaged.
Oops, my bad- I was thinking the compressor setting (which can be engaged on a per channel basis), not the top pannel engaged limiter (engaged on all channels or none, as kirkd mentions). I've turned both on and off to see how they work, but have never recorded with either one.
One possible work around is engaguing the limiter and using the digital input for the two channels you don't want limited. The manual doesn't go into it, so you'd need to check what 's going on in that case, but I doubt the limiter acts on the digital SPID input. The manual states that the limiter and low-cut are bypassed when selecting the internal mics, but says nothing about the digital inputs.
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Hey guys.
Couple of questions about my neat new R44, if you'd be so kind.
1) Has anyone had any issues running whilst plugged into the mains? Got a gig coming up soon where I should be able to get power and haven't had a chance to sort out a DVD battery and cables and whatnot yet.
2) Should I be looking for any particular 'class' of SDHC card? Thought I'd check before shelling out £100+ for a 32gig.
Thanks guys.
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powermonkey, I can tell you that I've tested my R-44 with AC (mains) versus batteries and could detect no difference in hum level by ear, though I didn't measure it.
Also I tried disconnecting and reconnecting the AC power supply while the unit was set to playback, and could hear no disturbance in the output either way. Haven't tried that while recording.
--best regards
Edited later to add: Since writing the above message I have also tested the failover to internal batteries while recording four channels. It worked perfectly.
Also, the changeover between external and internal batteries seems to be fairly "smart" since if you plug in an external supply cable with no battery attached, the unit keeps running on its internal batteries. Many other recorders would have stopped working the moment I plugged anything into the external power socket (whether powered or not), so I consider this is a real plus.
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Odd note: I assumed this would be a no-brainer, but perhaps not. I wrote to Edirol tech support asking whether there would be any problem using an external 48-Volt phantom power supply (to save on battery consumption) if the supply was the kind that passes the DC along to its outputs. To my surprise this question had to be sent on to "the engineers in Japan" who replied that this had not been tested and was NOT recommended.
Now, I don't have a schematic and have never taken my R-44 apart, but in general the input circuit of any phantom-powered device will have transformers or (these days, more likely) coupling capacitors with a sufficient voltage rating to block the unit's own 48 Volts from entering the active circuitry. So I asked the gentleman at Edirol about that--but all he said in return was, "I am going to have to defer to our team in Japan on this one. While it may may seem the circuitry won't be damaged, they cannot assure us it will be safe, and they recommend against such use."
For what it's worth.
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Regarding the limiter, it's pretty much useless. This has been beat to death in other threads, but the way it limits is just stupid (and I say this as someone who loves his R44 BTW). Basically, you can still brick the preamp because it's not a true analog brick wall limiter, so you pretty much can get the same added (psuedo-added that is) headroom by turning down the gain by 10 db or something like that (2 clicks for 12 db), and I feel like you're better off doing that because then at least you'll know you're bricking. Also, don't forget to watch the channel indicator itself, it'll invert color if the pre is bricking (e.g., if you've turned an inner gain knbow down, you can look like you have headroom via the clipping indicator while you are actually clipping the pre as shown by the inverting channel indicator).
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limiter schmittiter. who needs it for a rock band ?
acoustic, ensamble of wind or full orchestra....I could see it.
but its a 24bit deck. just run the gain low and adjust in post, you'll be fine.
actually, I tried and really liked the emphasis effect while recording. you can activate it on playback to, so record raw, listen raw, then listen w/emphasis. Only problem is you cant add it in post that I knw of
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hey guys! i haven't been around here in a while but i've been catching up.
i recently closed a deal with OFOTD for a pair of DPA 4021's, been wanting to own my own for a long time. ;D
i don't have them in hand yet, but i've run 4023's > Bm2p+ UA-5 (analog out) > R-09 a few times and like the sound. but i'm really wanting to move toward an all-in-one box because i've had chain problems before and hate troubleshooting while the band is playing (less cables is better) and really want to work with 4 channels...
so, that brings me to this thread. i don't have the budget for a 744, but the R-44 looks about right budget wise.
i'm going to back read a bit, but i wanted to throw some questions out there if you don't mind.
1.) i run the ua-5 on one of those silver dvd batteries, will/how long will that run a R-44?
2.) say i wanted to run 4 mics or aud/sbd; will the four channels drift much?
3.) mod options: busman? oade (concert/super)? i know tastes vary, but what's the best explaination for difference in sound? any comps handy?
4.) thoughts on the DPA's paired with a modded R-44? any other options?
i'm not really in a hurry to buy unless a good deal comes along, but i like to do as much homework as possible. again, sorry to ask, because i'm sure this has all been discussed before. i fully intend to back read, but that's a lot of pages :o
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No drift between channels. I'm pretty sure you can use the same DVD battery too, mine outputs 9v. I can run 4-channel all night at a club show (3-4 hours) on one battery but I usually use two in parallel just for insurance. I ran all day at the Wanee fest on two in parallel with no hint of running out of juice but I was only using two channels at that fest.
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No drift between channels.
sweet. +1 for you and the R-44
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Note that if you have internal batteries in the R-44, you can "hot swap" external batteries without losing any recording.
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Silly question, or at least it seems that way to me:
Is running two mono channels and panning 100% left & right accordingly in the post, essentially the same as stereo x 1?
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Yes.
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The single stereo file / 4 mono files / 2 stereo files / one 4 channel file choice on the recorder is really only about how many channels are stored in each individual WAV file.. AND if the software you use to edit /play them recognizes those formats. If so, the you can route the recorded channels any way you care to after the fact.
I often record 4 channel surround with Left/Center/Right/Back channels. It would seem obvious for me to write 4 mono files, or one single 4 channel file, which would make sense for the surround material. But even with the R-44 I usually record two stereo files instead: one L/R and the other C/B, because I can listen to the L/R stereo file anytime (or the C/B file for that matter) and as long as I have all four recorded channels, I can mix or route them anyway I want. Mostly a convenience thing for me.
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The more channels you have in the file, the more data will be present for any given running time, and therefore you'll hit file splitting earlier - which these days shouldn't be a big issue but none the less, it's a consideration.
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Most editing software will allow you to split stereo files anyway so you can mix and match in post all you want. I do it all the time with Audacity. I haven't tried 4 channel files but see no point to them for my purposes. I usually pull two channels of soundboard and two of mics, having them as two stereo files helps keep them organized.
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I like to run the mono setting. Then I can just load it into my editor and do what ever I want. If it were stereo it's one more step to get them separated before I can do mixing. For my purposes I've found that i don't always pan each channel 100% either. Of course it all depends on what you are after, how you recorded and personal taste. Kirk
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Good point. I need to split or copy my Center/Back stereo file when I edit.
That makes me wonder if can I set the R-44 to record one stereo file for channels 1&2 + 2 mono files for ch 3&4?
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NO menu options for that. It's mono x #channels(1, 2, 3, 4,) stereo x(1 or 2) and wav X 4 the only odd combinations are if you run digi & analog inputs or mono X3
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I'm looking to upgrade the 8 gig SDHC card I've been using for a couple of years now with a 16 gig card. Anyone have any good leads on a low-priced SDHC 16 gig card that's known to work in the R44?
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I've been using an A-data card since I got my R44 without any problems:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211300
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I would think the worst-case situation would be recording 24-bit audio using MONO x 4 at 24/96 or MONO x 2 at 24/192. Those settings should require the largest number of disk I/O operations per minute, and thus have the least leeway for completing one burst of disk I/O before the next one needs to start.
If buffer overflow is the main concern, it should be most likely to occur with those settings, no? If so, then it seems to me that people might want to test new memory cards with those settings, unless they're sure that they will never use such high sampling rates for a recording.
Does that make sense?
--best regards
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B&H has the R-44 at $964.95 right now.
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B&H has the R-44 at $964.95 right now.
Wow! I paid $738 with free shipping from Full Compass when I got mine.
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Finally caught the fedex lady today, and got my Oade CM R-44!
this thing is tiny from what you'd expect! i've used a DAP1 and 722 before from loans, but i'm impressed with the 44's size.
i decided to check out my 4GB SD card that works flawlessly in my R-09. so i set the R-44 to 24/192 and recorded stereox1 using the internal mics. just sat it in front of the tv for a few minutes. about a minute in to the recording, i got the "slow card error"... upon playback, the recording is full of dropouts. about a one or two second drop out every 7 or 8 seconds on the recording. :(
so, i guess i need some SD card options that are known to work well with the R-44. 16gb should be fine to record 4 channels at 24/192 or 96 right?
also, what's the basic setup i should set it at? planning on using the dvd battery (adapter?) i use with the ua-5 and mostly running 2 channel external mics, sometimes 4 (stereox1, stereox2). gain knobs?
anything else important to know?
i read all the threads here a few weeks ago, but i need to go over them again now that i have this thing in front of me.
i can't wait to get this bad boy to a show!
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I have had my r44 for a few months and have had no issues with Kingston class 4 cards. I have run 2x stereo @ 24/96, digital + 1x stereo @ 24/96 and 4x mono @ 24/48. I was lucky to find four 16g Kingston class 4 cards for just over $100 shipped. I think I saw that buy.com had the cards in the $30 range recently.
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I have had my r44 for a few months and have had no issues with Kingston class 4 cards. I have run 2x stereo @ 24/96, digital + 1x stereo @ 24/96 and 4x mono @ 24/48. I was lucky to find four 16g Kingston class 4 cards for just over $100 shipped. I think I saw that buy.com had the cards in the $30 range recently.
okay, Kingston class 4 it is then! Someone else suggested them as well. Thanks!
Anyone know about how long rechargeable AA's will last for 4 channels? I guess I should just run some tests at home to be sure. Glad I found out my previous card sucks before I took it out to a show.
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I wouldn't count on more than two hours on the rechargeables. I'd urge anyone with an R-44 to get a DVD battery or two and use rechargeables in the chamber as a security policy.
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Amen. Even when using AC I always keep good batteries in the recorder. I also run two DVD batteries in parallel. That gives me plenty of time and a backup if the electronics in one of the batteries goes dead.
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Amen. Even when using AC I always keep good batteries in the recorder. I also run two DVD batteries in parallel. That gives me plenty of time and a backup if the electronics in one of the batteries goes dead.
I do that alot also....
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Just got my R-44 last night...had a blast taping music from my stereo last night...this is gonna be fun!!
I guess I'll have to change my screen name from datmike to r44mike or 4trackmike!
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does anyone have a link to a good battery? i have one of the old walmart dvd batteries for the ua-5, but i need to pick up an extra for the R-44 now.
can't find anything. :(
found this thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=129935.0
picked up two new ones, great deal.
let's talk bags as well! what's everyone carrying their R-44 and other gear in? i'm looking to carry my ua-5 with the r-44 as well as clamps, bars, ect...
so, anyone carry a V3 and R-44?
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does anyone have a link to a good battery? i have one of the old walmart dvd batteries for the ua-5, but i need to pick up an extra for the R-44 now.
can't find anything. :(
found this thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=129935.0
picked up two new ones, great deal.
let's talk bags as well! what's everyone carrying their R-44 and other gear in? i'm looking to carry my ua-5 with the r-44 as well as clamps, bars, ect...
so, anyone carry a V3 and R-44?
I use a deluxe Sonicase and carry a R-44, a V3, 3 DVD batteries, and some cables on the four shelves. My SKM140s stay in one of the removable zip up pouches
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does anyone have a link to a good battery? i have one of the old walmart dvd batteries for the ua-5, but i need to pick up an extra for the R-44 now.
can't find anything. :(
found this thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=129935.0
picked up two new ones, great deal.
let's talk bags as well! what's everyone carrying their R-44 and other gear in? i'm looking to carry my ua-5 with the r-44 as well as clamps, bars, ect...
so, anyone carry a V3 and R-44?
I use a deluxe Sonicase and carry a R-44, a V3, 3 DVD batteries, and some cables on the four shelves. My SKM140s stay in one of the removable zip up pouches
that sounds legit. do you have a link/pics?
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i just finished a test.
i ordered a kingston 16gb class 4 card but decided to try out my old 4gb generic again. this time at 16/44.1 running internal mics+dpa phantom in the living room. just recording the tv and ambient room sounds.
i also decided to see how long i could power the R-44 on four Energizer rechargeable (2300mh each).
running 4 channel (internal+phantom) i got exactly 3 hours before the "low battery" warning showed up.
not bad if i want to just run a stereo pair for a single show with a light bag. i'll still run my external battery with these AA's as backup, but that's good to know nonetheless.
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I found a nice bag to use with my new R-44:
Gator G-Broadcaster
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/614505-REG/Gator_Cases_G_BROADCASTER_G_BROADCASTER_Utility_Bag_.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/614505-REG/Gator_Cases_G_BROADCASTER_G_BROADCASTER_Utility_Bag_.html)
It's made for digital recorders so I kept the factory slot for that and just cut out most of the rest of the foam so I could fit my 2 Sound Devices MixPre (MP-2) power supply units (with battery underneath). All I have to do is connect my 4 mic cables and turn the power on...the rest is ready. The two pockets in front open so that you don't lose any of your adapters or other small parts in the dark. I keep my power supply for the R-44 in there and just drilled a hole through the bag to hide the wire. When standing upright the bag actually angles toward you for a better viewing angle to your equipment. I have everything turned upside down because my next few show I'll be able to set the bag on a table...this way the pockets don't interfere.
(http://www.mtbzone.com/sales/gatorbag1.JPG)
(http://www.mtbzone.com/sales/gatorbag2.JPG)
It is barely wide enough to get the job job but it just works for me. The bag is very durable and has a clear piece on top to keep watch over your levels and each side has zippable doors to allow entry for cables. I'll have to carry my mics in a separate bag but it'll be nice to have my setup more plug-and-play.
BTW- Love my R-44!
Here's a few clips from the first run..
http://www.mtbzone.com/music/law_furtado_shenandoah10-01-20.mp3 (http://www.mtbzone.com/music/law_furtado_shenandoah10-01-20.mp3)
http://www.mtbzone.com/music/law_furtado_littlesadie10-01-20.mp3 (http://www.mtbzone.com/music/law_furtado_littlesadie10-01-20.mp3)
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does anyone have a link to a good battery? i have one of the old walmart dvd batteries for the ua-5, but i need to pick up an extra for the R-44 now.
can't find anything. :(
found this thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=129935.0
picked up two new ones, great deal.
let's talk bags as well! what's everyone carrying their R-44 and other gear in? i'm looking to carry my ua-5 with the r-44 as well as clamps, bars, ect...
so, anyone carry a V3 and R-44?
I haven't been keeping up with the r-44 threads, but I did this batt test once: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,117952.0.html
And, I too am looking for that perfect V3/R-44 bag...that gator might just work...
--Michael
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I found a nice bag to use with my new R-44:
Gator G-Broadcaster
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/614505-REG/Gator_Cases_G_BROADCASTER_G_BROADCASTER_Utility_Bag_.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/614505-REG/Gator_Cases_G_BROADCASTER_G_BROADCASTER_Utility_Bag_.html)
It's made for digital recorders so I kept the factory slot for that and just cut out most of the rest of the foam so I could fit my 2 Sound Devices MixPre (MP-2) power supply units (with battery underneath). All I have to do is connect my 4 mic cables and turn the power on...the rest is ready. The two pockets in front open so that you don't lose any of your adapters or other small parts in the dark. I keep my power supply for the R-44 in there and just drilled a hole through the bag to hide the wire. When standing upright the bag actually angles toward you for a better viewing angle to your equipment. I have everything turned upside down because my next few show I'll be able to set the bag on a table...this way the pockets don't interfere.
(http://www.mtbzone.com/sales/gatorbag1.JPG)
(http://www.mtbzone.com/sales/gatorbag2.JPG)
It is barely wide enough to get the job job but it just works for me. The bag is very durable and has a clear piece on top to keep watch over your levels and each side has zippable doors to allow entry for cables. I'll have to carry my mics in a separate bag but it'll be nice to have my setup more plug-and-play.
BTW- Love my R-44!
Here's a few clips from the first run..
http://www.mtbzone.com/music/law_furtado_shenandoah10-01-20.mp3 (http://www.mtbzone.com/music/law_furtado_shenandoah10-01-20.mp3)
http://www.mtbzone.com/music/law_furtado_littlesadie10-01-20.mp3 (http://www.mtbzone.com/music/law_furtado_littlesadie10-01-20.mp3)
Damn dude, you ought to just sell those two mixpres and get the SD 4 channel mixer, you'd have a sick rig and a little bit less unwieldy too!
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And spend at least $2,000 more
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this is awesome. would you mind posting some more pics of it, maybe empty? what do you have the R-44 and mixpre's sitting on so they don't fall to the bottom of the bag when you sit it upright? i think i like this option.
I found a nice bag to use with my new R-44:
Gator G-Broadcaster
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/614505-REG/Gator_Cases_G_BROADCASTER_G_BROADCASTER_Utility_Bag_.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/614505-REG/Gator_Cases_G_BROADCASTER_G_BROADCASTER_Utility_Bag_.html)
It's made for digital recorders so I kept the factory slot for that and just cut out most of the rest of the foam so I could fit my 2 Sound Devices MixPre (MP-2) power supply units (with battery underneath). All I have to do is connect my 4 mic cables and turn the power on...the rest is ready. The two pockets in front open so that you don't lose any of your adapters or other small parts in the dark. I keep my power supply for the R-44 in there and just drilled a hole through the bag to hide the wire. When standing upright the bag actually angles toward you for a better viewing angle to your equipment. I have everything turned upside down because my next few show I'll be able to set the bag on a table...this way the pockets don't interfere.
(http://www.mtbzone.com/sales/gatorbag1.JPG)
(http://www.mtbzone.com/sales/gatorbag2.JPG)
It is barely wide enough to get the job job but it just works for me. The bag is very durable and has a clear piece on top to keep watch over your levels and each side has zippable doors to allow entry for cables. I'll have to carry my mics in a separate bag but it'll be nice to have my setup more plug-and-play.
BTW- Love my R-44!
Here's a few clips from the first run..
http://www.mtbzone.com/music/law_furtado_shenandoah10-01-20.mp3 (http://www.mtbzone.com/music/law_furtado_shenandoah10-01-20.mp3)
http://www.mtbzone.com/music/law_furtado_littlesadie10-01-20.mp3 (http://www.mtbzone.com/music/law_furtado_littlesadie10-01-20.mp3)
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Hi,
I just bough an Initial RB-270 battery for the unit. After connected them I experience a "low battery" warning in external battery setup. Pack is brandnew and gives 9.26V output. I tried to change voltages in menu but no change. When I switch my setup to "adapter" instead of external battery everything seems to be fine. No annoying "low battery" msg then.
What's wrong? Maybe a bug in firmware? Any advice I would love to read. Thank you.
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Hi,
I just bough an Initial RB-270 battery for the unit. After connected them I experience a "low battery" warning in external battery setup. Pack is brandnew and gives 9.26V output. I tried to change voltages in menu but no change. When I switch my setup to "adapter" instead of external battery everything seems to be fine. No annoying "low battery" msg then.
What's wrong? Maybe a bug in firmware? Any advice I would love to read. Thank you.
Normal behavior. The setting on the recorder doesn't go low enough for 9V batts.
Set the R-44 to 'adapter' and use the meter on the battery instead of the recorder. Internal batteries will take over seamlessly if you unplug to switch externals.
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Normal behavior. The setting on the recorder doesn't go low enough for 9V batts.
Set the R-44 to 'adapter' and use the meter on the battery instead of the recorder. Internal batteries will take over seamlessly if you unplug to switch externals.
Thank you for your quick assist! So with a 12V or 16V battery it would not be a problem for anyway lovely R-44.
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Normal behavior. The setting on the recorder doesn't go low enough for 9V batts.
Set the R-44 to 'adapter' and use the meter on the battery instead of the recorder. Internal batteries will take over seamlessly if you unplug to switch externals.
Will the internals take over seamlessly if your external battery dies and the R44 is set to 'adapter'? I guess I always assumed so, now I'm thinking if you have it set to adapter, you might have to monitor the external battery charge and pull it out if it is getting low.
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Will the internals take over seamlessly if your external battery dies and the R44 is set to 'adapter'? I guess I always assumed so, now I'm thinking if you have it set to adapter, you might have to monitor the external battery charge and pull it out if it is getting low.
Good question. I've always switched before the external completely discharged.
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Normal behavior. The setting on the recorder doesn't go low enough for 9V batts.
Set the R-44 to 'adapter' and use the meter on the battery instead of the recorder. Internal batteries will take over seamlessly if you unplug to switch externals.
Thank you for your quick assist! So with a 12V or 16V battery it would not be a problem for anyway lovely R-44.
I couldn't say about a higher voltage battery but I can run an awfully long time on one of the 9v batteries. However, for festivals I have a cable that allows me to run two in parallel. I ran all day with that rig at Wanee last year and only dropped an LED or two on the battery levels. I have four of the batteries in total and never charged one all weekend.
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Hi,
I just bough an Initial RB-270 battery for the unit. After connected them I experience a "low battery" warning in external battery setup. Pack is brandnew and gives 9.26V output. I tried to change voltages in menu but no change. When I switch my setup to "adapter" instead of external battery everything seems to be fine. No annoying "low battery" msg then.
What's wrong? Maybe a bug in firmware? Any advice I would love to read. Thank you.
Normal behavior. The setting on the recorder doesn't go low enough for 9V batts.
Set the R-44 to 'adapter' and use the meter on the battery instead of the recorder. Internal batteries will take over seamlessly if you unplug to switch externals.
What GutBucket said. I've made 70+ recordings that way without incident.
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Last night, I noticed on the Oade-modified Edirol R-44 that Edirol placed a sticker on it that states "Warranty Void If Seal Is Broken Or Removed".
These are the stickers that split apart when peeled back. This sticker was never removed. To open the Edirol R-44, this sticker must be removed. So how did Doug Oade modify this Edirol R-44 ?
Perhaps I need to ask him myself but figured someone on this board knows what's up.
Thanks in advance!
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Last night, I noticed on the Oade-modified Edirol R-44 that Edirol placed a sticker on it that states "Warranty Void If Seal Is Broken Or Removed".
These are the stickers that split apart when peeled back. This sticker was never removed. To open the Edirol R-44, this sticker must be removed. So how did Doug Oade modify this Edirol R-44 ?
Perhaps I need to ask him myself but figured someone on this board knows what's up.
Thanks in advance!
There is no such sticker on my unmodified R-44 and I never noticed one on any others but then I didn't look for one. It might be a sticker Doug is adding after his mods. Oade Brothers is a small business and they can't afford to repair a unit because somebody got curious, opened one up and messed it up.
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Last night, I noticed on the Oade-modified Edirol R-44 that Edirol placed a sticker on it that states "Warranty Void If Seal Is Broken Or Removed".
These are the stickers that split apart when peeled back. This sticker was never removed. To open the Edirol R-44, this sticker must be removed. So how did Doug Oade modify this Edirol R-44 ?
Perhaps I need to ask him myself but figured someone on this board knows what's up.
Thanks in advance!
How do you know that Edirol placed the sticker? Is it an Edirol sticker? Maybe I'm not looking in the right place but I don't see that sticker on my unmodded R-44.
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Back in the day when I worked at a computer store we used to routinely add such stickers to machines we built.
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Back in the day when I worked at a computer store we used to routinely add such stickers to machines we built.
I have not added sticker to my version neither. I took first two pics before the little tuning.
Edit by BSkalinder: Please re-size pictures to a usable / easily viewable size.
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Last night, I noticed on the Oade-modified Edirol R-44 that Edirol placed a sticker on it that states "Warranty Void If Seal Is Broken Or Removed".
These are the stickers that split apart when peeled back. This sticker was never removed. To open the Edirol R-44, this sticker must be removed. So how did Doug Oade modify this Edirol R-44 ?
Perhaps I need to ask him myself but figured someone on this board knows what's up.
Thanks in advance!
Im pretty sure that sticker was put there by Oade, not Edirol. I too have an Oade mod R-44, as well as a Oade T+Mod UA-5, and previously owned an Oade ACM PMD-671, all of which have the Warranty Void sticker...
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...
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Thank you for responding. I suppose then that the stock Edirol R-44 unit does not
have any "WARNING WARRANTY VOID..." sticker, but Oade puts it on all his units.
I would have guessed Edirol would have put one on too. Pretty interesting.
Thank you all again! :D
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When using M/S effect what is the proper setting in recording mode? Monox2 or Stereox1. I think the first, just want to be sure in that.
Also, if I record two mono channels in M/S how can I change level of side channel during the mix if needed. S will be the right channel so how to mix this if I want a stereo output?
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When using M/S effect what is the proper setting in recording mode? Monox2 or Stereox1. I think the first, just want to be sure in that.
Also, if I record two mono channels in M/S how can I change level of side channel during the mix if needed. S will be the right channel so how to mix this if I want a stereo output?
I don't record M/S, but I'd recommend that you decode M/S via software after the fact, rather than trying to use the mode on the R44. Seems like you'll get much more flexibility that way.
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If you use the MS effect during recording, the mid and side inputs will get converted to a normal stereo recording before being passed to the SDHC card. Whether you record that as a stereo file or two mono files doesn't matter - it's just left and right at that point, same as if you'd recorded using a conventional stereo mic.
If you connect an MS pair to the R-44 and don't use the MS effect to record, monitoring the recording will sound weird. If you use the MS effect on playback, then it will sound ok. It's a pity that the R-44 does not allow you to hear effects during recording unless you record with effects.
If you record without the MS effect, you can vary the width on playback with the MS effect switched on, using the provided control page (see manual for details - I think it's the 'display' button). If you record with the MS effect on, you can still vary the width afterwards in a DAW using the Voxengo "MSED" VST effect (or any other that does the job). That VST effect converts the normal stereo signal you've recorded back to MS, allows you to vary the width, then converts back to normal stereo. MSED works with a stereo file, so if you've recorded two mono files you need to route them to a stereo track in your DAW and apply the effect on that track, which is marginally more complex.
Try all this thoroughly at home before using it for real.
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If you use the MS effect during recording, the mid and side inputs will get converted to a normal stereo recording before being passed to the SDHC card. Whether you record that as a stereo file or two mono files doesn't matter - it's just left and right at that point, same as if you'd recorded using a conventional stereo mic.
If you connect an MS pair to the R-44 and don't use the MS effect to record, monitoring the recording will sound weird. If you use the MS effect on playback, then it will sound ok. It's a pity that the R-44 does not allow you to hear effects during recording unless you record with effects.
If you record without the MS effect, you can vary the width on playback with the MS effect switched on, using the provided control page (see manual for details - I think it's the 'display' button). If you record with the MS effect on, you can still vary the width afterwards in a DAW using the Voxengo "MSED" VST effect (or any other that does the job). That VST effect converts the normal stereo signal you've recorded back to MS, allows you to vary the width, then converts back to normal stereo. MSED works with a stereo file, so if you've recorded two mono files you need to route them to a stereo track in your DAW and apply the effect on that track, which is marginally more complex.
Try all this thoroughly at home before using it for real.
Many thanks for your clean and helpful explain! Actually I do not have the mentioned MSED VST by Voxengo so will try out the built-in with Cubase first.
It is a good thing after all that you can at least monitoring in MS with R-44. I am curious how the MS sound will be different after load it to computer and working with MSED or other dedicated plug-in.
Thanks a lot again.
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I accidentally stressed my R-44 last night. I was packing things away and it got tangle in a cable I was rolling up and it fell about three feet onto the concrete floor. It has a scuff mark but it seems to be working fine. Its nice to know it can stand up to that sort of abuse!
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I am glad to share my tip to on a really inexpensive but long last carrying case for Edirol R-44 recorder. The case is an Airsoft Molle Modular Large Utility Tools Drop Pouch OD. It is 210mm(H) x 170mm(W) x 70mm(D) and as you can see from attached photos, fits perfectly with my R-44.
You can attach the case to any 1'' ...belt or use with other Molle system.
I made cut out for mic plugs by myself with a sharp blade knife. The cable for your external battery pack can be easily put into the pouch, it fits just nicely. I bought this Molle pouch for $8.99 only! Hope you find my idea usable in the case if you are looking for a smooth case for your R-44.
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7328/201003200101.jpg)
(http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1235/201003200201.jpg)
(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4517/201003200301.jpg)
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2801/201003200401.jpg)
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I am trying to understand the outputs on my R-44 (I usually just use the inputs!). The four analog output jacks seem pretty straightforward - you can set them to be 4 individual, or controlled by the monitor selection. It's the digital output jack that I find confusing. Is it a straight pass-thru of the digital input signal? Or does it receive a signal from the other inputs? I suspect the latter, since the manual states that the digital out provides the same output as the headphone jack, just in digital form. If that's the case, is it possible to control the mix that goes thru the digital out? A footnote in the manual states that the monitor level knob cannot be used to adjust the volume of the digital out.
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I've never tried it but I guess the mix would be controlled by the sliders you see on the screen when you press the display button during playback (going from memory). However, monitoring is perhaps the R-44's weak point so it might not be particularly useful. You certainly wouldn't get panning of the outputs which isn't available for the analog monitoring or replay.
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I accidentally stressed my R-44 last night. I was packing things away and it got tangle in a cable I was rolling up and it fell about three feet onto the concrete floor. It has a scuff mark but it seems to be working fine. Its nice to know it can stand up to that sort of abuse!
Glad to see that it survives the drop test. I'd have to say that mine has failed the beer test though, $300 for a new pcb board. :(
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New owner here. Received it last Thursday and ran it for the first time Saturday. Slick little box I must say. I do have a few questions for you guys that I have searched for and couldn’t really find an answer.
1. Can you record to just channels 3 & 4 without having to put it in stereo x 2? From my tests it does not look like it.
2. What kind of DVD batteries are you guys using? I have 2 Energizer 9.0v's that will not turn this thing on. The cable I'm using allows me to swap the polarity of the plugs to accommodate different devices. I swapped it so the plugs were negative and it still won’t work. I changed the setting to 9.0v and one again it won’t turn on. FWIW, it will power up with the AC adapter. Is there a setting I'm missing?
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1. Can you record to just channels 3 & 4 without having to put it in stereo x 2? From my tests it does not look like it.
2. What kind of DVD batteries are you guys using? I have 2 Energizer 9.0v's that will not turn this thing on. The cable I'm using allows me to swap the polarity of the plugs to accommodate different devices. I swapped it so the plugs were negative and it still won’t work. I changed the setting to 9.0v and one again it won’t turn on. FWIW, it will power up with the AC adapter. Is there a setting I'm missing?
1.) No, you can't just record on channels 3&4 with out 1&2 being active.
2.) You should have no problem with that battery and there is no setting that needs to be changed on the R-44. Either your battery is dead or cable is bad.
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I can't remember if mine works with an external DVD battery and the R44 set to external 9v (if that even is a setting, I don't recall). To use my external DVD battery, I set the R44 to say it is running on the AC wallwart.
Try that and see if it solves your problem.
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Both my batteries and cable are fine. They power my HD-P2 with no issues. My cable allows me to swap the polarity on the tips which I did because it's the opposite of the Tascam, and it still won’t work. Like I said the AC adapter powers it up just fine so, what gives? It's not what Wookie was experiencing.
What do you guys use for DVD batteries, if you use them? I kind of dig using AA's because it's less stuff to carry around but for festivals or longer shows, a DVD battery would be nice to have.
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Dutchman, really any of the 9v li-ion DVD batteries(typically 5400mah and up) should work just fine. Initial, Dynex, Impact, Endurance are a few brand names that are known to work with the R-44, don't know if any are still in production, but can often be found on Ebay.
Otherwise like ToddR mentioned, make sure you have the R-44 set to "adapter"(as if using a/c power) and not one of the battery settings. The low battery threshold is just too low for any of the external battery settings to work with our 9v options.
If you still have problems, I have 2 or 3 extra 9v 6000mah batteries + charger that I used with my R-44 that I will let go cheap, shoot me a PM if interested...
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I needed to transfer a dat so I tried it using the R-44 last night.
D7 (7pin>coax) > R-44
I think I read that the R-44 takes the digital signal in exactly as it's sent. I found this to be half right. The signal levels came in and the R-44 disabled both the analog and digital level controls, so whatever you were sending is what the R-44 captured.
However, the DAT was 16/44.1 but the R-44 recorded in 24/48 and didn't recognize the original sample rate.
Is this expected?
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I needed to transfer a dat so I tried it using the R-44 last night.
D7 (7pin>coax) > R-44
I think I read that the R-44 takes the digital signal in exactly as it's sent. I found this to be half right. The signal levels came in and the R-44 disabled both the analog and digital level controls, so whatever you were sending is what the R-44 captured.
However, the DAT was 16/44.1 but the R-44 recorded in 24/48 and didn't recognize the original sample rate.
Is this expected?
You need to make sure to set your Record Frequency to "44 kHz" and Rec Bit to "16" in the Recording Setup menu.
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I needed to transfer a dat so I tried it using the R-44 last night.
D7 (7pin>coax) > R-44
I think I read that the R-44 takes the digital signal in exactly as it's sent. I found this to be half right. The signal levels came in and the R-44 disabled both the analog and digital level controls, so whatever you were sending is what the R-44 captured.
However, the DAT was 16/44.1 but the R-44 recorded in 24/48 and didn't recognize the original sample rate.
Is this expected?
You need to make sure to set your Record Frequency to "44 kHz" and Rec Bit to "16" in the Recording Setup menu.
right... but i was thinking the R-44 would automatically acknowledge the signal's bitrate and react accordingly. i guess the digital signal isn't bit perfect?
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It would be "bit perfect" if you had chosen the same settings. You told the deck to up the bit rate and sampling to the incoming signal. The deck doesn't automatically do anything. Some people up the bit rate anyway then do all their post work so that when the resample back down they have not lost any information. After all it is only adding zeros to the 16 bit signal
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..After all it is only adding zeros to the 16 bit signal
That adresses the bit depth change from 16 to 24 bits, yet it is also resampling from 44.1 to 48khz, which is the potentially more problematic conversion. You might check playback of the resulting file to see if it is the right pitch/speed.
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Ah right. Or just do the transfer over at the desired settings. Fwiw I never had any issues upping the settings when doing transfers, most notably on the Sony LP(32Hz) settings. And almost always upped from 16 to 24 bit just so I could do post processing and bring it back down without the fear or losing anything. While I have only done a few Cassette xfers, I was told that doing it 24 bit does make for a better xfer. I never bothered to do a side by side listening test to see if I could hear a difference but it makes sense.
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Was using my R-44 at a BG fest this weekend and came up with a question. At a few festivals I attend I just let it roll and divide it between bands. I can't find a way to divide files with the R-44. The only way I've found is to stop the recording and restart it. Can you split tracks while recording without stopping the recording?
Thanks,
Chuck
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As I recall it, if you have it set to pre-record, when you press 'stop' it immediately begins pre-recording, so if you quickly press record again, you will lose nothing. Well, my test shows you might lose a handful of samples, but you'd probably not notice, particularly between songs during applause. Test that yourself at home and see what you think.
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i borrowed an r44 a few weeks ago and messed up with a setting. i was trying to go mono x4, but instead went mono4>1 or something like that. it won't open in wavelab, but cdwave opens it as a 4 channel and cant save it as 2. it has them listed l,r,f,b. anybody know if there is a way to separate these channels?
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i borrowed an r44 a few weeks ago and messed up with a setting. i was trying to go mono x4, but instead went mono4>1 or something like that. it won't open in wavelab, but cdwave opens it as a 4 channel and cant save it as 2. it has them listed l,r,f,b. anybody know if there is a way to separate these channels?
Fostex has a free utiliy that you can find here. http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/pro_support/pro_bwf_manager.shtml
It works perfectly.
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As I recall it, if you have it set to pre-record, when you press 'stop' it immediately begins pre-recording, so if you quickly press record again, you will lose nothing. Well, my test shows you might lose a handful of samples, but you'd probably not notice, particularly between songs during applause. Test that yourself at home and see what you think.
Thanks. I was hoping for a divide or split function, guess I'll stick with the stop and restart.
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Hi guys, I have just heard from a friend of mine who is a high-end freak that ERS paper are able to reduce unwanted electromagnetic noises. I am interested in this because when using unbalanced inputs of my R-44 there is a hearable display noise as the counter runs on it.
It would be very nice to switch off the display from menu (maybe a firmware update will resolve this question?) but since this opt is not available yet, I think to place a piece of ERS paper behind the display panel. So, does anybody would it recommend or not? If yes, which ERS I have to look for?
Thanks a lot!
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Figured this would be more useful here, linked to the other thread.
Previously discussed on Team Tetramic:
Matching gains for all channels on the recorder is critical for an accurate matrix decode, so prior to recording I matched gains as closely as possible on the R-44 using a tone generator and Voltmeter, then devised a simple way to keep from accidentally adjusting the continuous center gain knobs on the R-44 channel inputs.
Finally getting around to posting a couple photos of the simple, easily reversible mod I made to 'lock' the inside gain knobs on the R-44 to avoid accidental gain changes. Simply four Sharpie caps, cut down with a razor knife just past the little 'tit' under the clasp on the cap and pushed onto the outer, detented knobs. It doesn't actually lock the inner knob but the hollow cap sticks out past the inner knob, preventing accidental changes. I can still look into the end to visually confirm that the inner knobs have not changed position, and pull of a cap to adjust if necessary.
Since the caps obscure the visual indicator marks on the outer knobs, I marked them with dots of silver Sharpie at the little 'tit'. That gives me both a visual and tactile indicator of the outer knob position, so I can confirm the knob positions in the dark. You don't even need to sacrifice the sharpies as the cut down cap tips still fit the markers.
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question that I haven't seen asked so that probably means its not possible.
If you are exclusively recording only on channels 1 & 2 either mono or stereo, is it possible to drop channels 3 & 4 from the display to have the meters for 1 & 2 be a little bigger?
I think the menu could use just a little work, seems pointless to have entire system menu dedicated to the operation of the speaker. I think speakers from any field recorder should be excluded to save space and for the company to focus on something else. I can't think of a single mixing console with any speaker since you have to monitor through headphones or passive/active speakers.
What's the current firmware for the r44?
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Firmware update site - http://www.edirol.com/index.php/en/support-mainmenu-415/software-downloads
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It would be "bit perfect" if you had chosen the same settings. You told the deck to up the bit rate and sampling to the incoming signal. The deck doesn't automatically do anything. Some people up the bit rate anyway then do all their post work so that when the resample back down they have not lost any information. After all it is only adding zeros to the 16 bit signal
I had my V3 running coax out to the R-44 both set on 24/48.
My wav forms look short and blocked off in audacity.
What am I doing wrong?
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anytime I have had an irregular looking wave it was either a piece of gear going bad, or I was a tthe point of overloading the mic itself IE: close mic on a bass guitar amp. Did you have limiters on anywhere, preamp or deck? Is it on both channels? Were you on battery power and was battery at end of life? Maybe if you posted a screen shot some others could chime in.
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anytime I have had an irregular looking wave it was either a piece of gear going bad, or I was a tthe point of overloading the mic itself IE: close mic on a bass guitar amp. Did you have limiters on anywhere, preamp or deck? Is it on both channels? Were you on battery power and was battery at end of life? Maybe if you posted a screen shot some others could chime in.
On further inspection everything looks normal except I ran a little more conservatively than I am used to.
It was my first time running the V3 and getting used to the levels. Turns out I peaked at -6.5 (24bit, so conservative was intentional but I'm not usually that low).
Any audacity suggestions to tone down the sub stacks?
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It's become pretty quiet here since I last checked. Is everyone selling their R-44s for the Tascam DR-680 or what? This might be off topic but maybe there should be some kind of poll to see what people think about each of the two...?
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I think a few people have unloaded their r44 and replaced it with the more channels 680. I have not see the 680 in person so I don't know much about it but it is really popular with a number of people who want a lot of channels. Truthfully, I would be happy with the sound devices usb pre 2, and the mixpre with the r44. I'm not asking for much, huh? ;)
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I ran an MP-2 with the R-44 and then a Busman UA-5 for digi input. I actually liked the modded UA-5 a little better with my ADK LD mics. But since you can run analog input on all channels why not just run two MP-2's and/or mixpre's? You can pick them up cheaper than the new USBpre-2. Or for that matter a V2 for about the same money also. And the BUsman UA-5 sounded good too with a few in the YS now you can get them at a good price.
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I ran an MP-2 with the R-44 and then a Busman UA-5 for digi input. I actually liked the modded UA-5 a little better with my ADK LD mics. But since you can run analog input on all channels why not just run two MP-2's and/or mixpre's? You can pick them up cheaper than the new USBpre-2. Or for that matter a V2 for about the same money also. And the BUsman UA-5 sounded good too with a few in the YS now you can get them at a good price.
Kirk,
You know that makes perfect sense. You don't need to go digi in just because when you could get nice pres and be happy with analog in! I know a v2 would be more than the ua5 and probably mixpre but whats a used one cost these days?
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I just sold my V2 for 675, but I see them for 700. You might have to be patient. Or if you are real patient a V3 will show up at the 800 range then you have both analog and digital outputs. The MP-2/mixpre's sometimes pop up as low as 400-450, but 500 is pretty common. I was also looking at the Audient Mico preamp and Dirk (TNJazz here on TS) is an Audient dealer with good pricing. That came in under 700 but was a tad too big for my bag. But the unit supposedly sounds as good if not better than the Grace preamps. And it has digi output to boot! I moved off the R-44 for the DR-690 because I wanted more channels and I have to have digi output from the preamp to utilize all of the inputs on the 680.
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I also see you sold your ua5 for a real good price recently. Those machines don't bring in as much money as they once did because we now have all-in-one machines like the r44 & 680.
Did you ever do any midside m/s recordings with the r44? I like Shawn's microphone in the yardsale, lsd2, and I may make an offer so I can try out m/s recordings, and I have heard lots of great things about that microphone. in fact the only bad thing about it is the weight of it.
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No I have not done any MS but a lot of stuff I do is multitrack so MS is not really an option. I have considered it but have yet to play around with it. There are lots of LSD-2 users here and it seems they like the mic. Size and/or weight is not a problem for me but I lug around more gear than most. I weighs about the same as one of my ADK's. Try a search on LMA for LSD2 and see what pops up, I'm sure you'll get a bunch of hits to listen to. Yeah the UA-5 market is down and I even considered keeping it because the box is SO flexible. I sold it to fund other slutty purchases and because a good buddy has one I can borrow at any time...speaking of Josh I need to return your UA-5 ::) I'm using an Apogee AD-1000 right now for digital output and am happy with that but looking forward to getting the new SD box >:D Plus I got an MP-2 to use for a different flavor besides the stock Tascam preamps, which are plenty good if you ask me.
The R-44 is a great little unit, you can go wrong with. Easy to operate almost no learning curve and good sound out of the box. If it had a way to sync clocks I would not have sold it....well maybe I would have since I sold the R-44 and it paid for my 680.
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i just want to drop in and say that i LOVE my Oade CM R-44. personally i think it's easier to use and sounds better than a 722 analog in. and it's 4 channels.
i haven't given the new 8 channel Tascam a spin yet, but i may eventually. until then, the R-44 is a dream.
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I have many many hours on my stock R-44 now and its still cruising along just fine, even after having been dropped once. I hope to get a second one in a few months for multiple stage events.
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So we can't record channels 3 & 4 without also recording channels 1 & 2?
I ask because I am getting a "Mixed Mod" (my own term) R-44 from Oade Bros. Channel 1&2 will be "Super" for dialogue & nature recordings, and channels 3&4 will be "Concert" for music. Granted I will most likely be doing matrix recordings: Ch. 1&2 Mics, Ch. 3&4 Board feed, but it would be nice to just use ch 3&4 sometimes.
So is it a definite fact that we can't record Ch 3&4 only?
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Yes, so just don't connect anything to 1 or 2 and don't copy those files from the sd card...
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As supplied there's no logical reason to provide for recording on 3&4 only, given that those channels are identical to 1&2, so they didn't provide that option.
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Someone posted once a while back that Doug Oade though that channels 1 & 2 picked up noise from the display light and liked to upgrade 3& 4 instead. I've never heard the noise myself. It would be nice to be able to choose which you wanted to use for two channel only inputs though and it might only be a firmware change on Edirol's part. In some situations it might be better to have the mic XLRs going into 3&4 rather than 1&2 physically. I haven't personally run into that sort of problem but I could see it.
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It would be convenient to just record any channel, any combo - as with any audio interface. I think the Oade mods correct the display audio bleed. I've never heard of picking up the display after the mod.
Either mod is still an upgrade to the original pres, so it's only a small want to be able to record on CH 3&4 only. For concerts I'll put my NT5 into 1&2(super), then board feed in 3&4(concert). The rest of the time I'll be using ch 1&2 (super) as 2nd system audio for video work with a shotgun, hyper mic, or a wireless unit.
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It's become pretty quiet here since I last checked. Is everyone selling their R-44s for the Tascam DR-680 or what? This might be off topic but maybe there should be some kind of poll to see what people think about each of the two...?
Just for the record I'm still using and loving my oade mod R44, the thing is a beast, not even a single glitch in hundreds of recordings.
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The only glitches I've had with my R-44 are ones I caused.
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Same. My Edirol recorders aren't fancy but just plain work. Never had any issues at all with the Oade CM R-44. Broke the input jack on an early R-09 and Edirol replaced the board and the scratched case front free, out of warranty. Never had a problem with it after that or any with a second R-09. Solid gear.
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Going to try syncing 2 R-44's together this weekend for the first time and have a couple of questions. First, I understand I need to have everything setup the same between the 2 machines (pre-record, bit rate, etc). I know I need to setup one as master, the other as slave. I'm guessing everything records to the SD card in the master. Am I correct to think I only press record on the master? Would I still use the phantom & volume controls on the individual machines (I'd expect that to be the case)? And finally, I do use a stereo mini (1/8") to connect the machines, correct?
TIA,
Chuck
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^I never done it, but I would think that you would have to press record on both. Also, I believe that it would record the 4 channels going to the master on its SD card, and the 4 channels going to the slave on its SD card. Then at home, you combine the two files on your computer. But like I said, I never done it.
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I also have not done it. Hopefully someone who has will post.. but if they don't before you need to roll, I think this is true:
Make settings the same on each recorder, EXCEPT setting one as MASTER the other as SLAVE.
Connect the two machines with the appropriate linking cable.
Hook up mic cables.
Power up both machines and set gains & phantom as required for each individual channel on each machine.
Transport funtions will be controlled by the MASTER machine. That means you only need to push RECORD (or stop, pause, or whatever) on the MASTER and not the SLAVE.
Files will be recorded to the corresponing cards in each machine, 4 on the MASTER and 4 on the SLAVE.
[Edit- Basically, think of linking as allowing you to push RECORD and STOP on just one machine instead of both, but otherwise they act as individual machines)
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[Edit- Basically, think of linking as allowing you to push RECORD and STOP on just one machine instead of both, but otherwise they act as individual machines)
When I read the manual, that's how I understood it as well. I think only a 1/8" (3.5mm) cable is all that is necessary but since I've never done it and don't recall seeing a special cable listed, I'm not certain.
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The only glitches I've had with my R-44 are ones I caused.
Same here...
I am just waiting for an R-88 ;D
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1/8" (3.5mm) stereo cable.
Tip, ring, sleeve.
I am just waiting for an R-88 ;D
I'm waiting for 6 channels in a R-09 size pocketable machine (7 or 8 would be nice, but one step at a time). I've moved from using two R-09s to one Tascam DR2d to get 4 channels in one handheld.
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I'm waiting for 6 channels in a R-09 size pocketable machine (7 or 8 would be nice, but one step at a time). I've moved from using two R-09s to one Tascam DR2d to get 4 channels in one handheld.
how do you record four channels? mic in and line in?
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Yep. Using it's dual recording feature, primarily aimed at recording a second safety copy at a lower level to prevent overs, but with an option to instead input a second stereo signal (mic-in / line-in) and either mix those to a single stereo file or record them as a two seperate stereo files. The implementation has some quirks, but it works and is the only pocketable recorder I know of (other than the $onosax MINIR82) to do 4 channels of external inputs. Check the DR2d thead for details if interested. (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=131126.0)
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Syncing two R-44's ONLY allows you controls the start stop record functions. There is NO DATA TRANSFER between the two machines via a sync cable. If you are looking for a backup secondary recording you could output from the rca's on the Master deck to the slave deck inputs. Or you would need to set up the two decks so they both get inputs at the same time. The sync cable will not allow any kind of data transfer. You also should be aware that the the clocks on the two decks are not locked together. They run at different rates. The R-44 does not have any way of accepting an input of a clocking signal. Depending on what you are doing this may not matter to you. I have run two R-44's synced and found that after about 20 minutes the drift was audible if tried to use the files as is. I had to stretch on set of files to get a perfect match. That's one of the few things I did not like about the R-44 and a reason I made a switch to the DR-680. Hope that helps
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the zoom h4n records 4 files simultanously.
also, seperate word clocks and the resulting sync that is required SUCKS. did that with 2 irivers for too long.
et
i have a zoom r16 for my needs greater than 4 tracks. i would only change that iy defaults to 16 bits and like to make it default to 24 bits. that and more than 2 phantom channels..... not usually needed, but when you do....
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The 4 ch recording on the H4N is only for 2 external mics and the 2 internal mics at 16 bit. It's basically a gimmick. The R16 is is also a bit toy-ish as a 16 bit recorder for bedroom musicians who only need 2 phantom mics at a time. The DR-680 would do you with 6 mic preamps and 2 spdif for 8 tracks, and it's a lot less than the R-44 (812.00 @ B&H), with better preamps out of the box. Busman Audio will sell you one pre-modded with the "transparent" mod for 1,100.00 and a 2 year parts & labor warranty. I just ordered one!
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Syncing two R-44's ONLY allows you controls the start stop record functions. There is NO DATA TRANSFER between the two machines via a sync cable. If you are looking for a backup secondary recording you could output from the rca's on the Master deck to the slave deck inputs. Or you would need to set up the two decks so they both get inputs at the same time. The sync cable will not allow any kind of data transfer. You also should be aware that the the clocks on the two decks are not locked together. They run at different rates. The R-44 does not have any way of accepting an input of a clocking signal. Depending on what you are doing this may not matter to you. I have run two R-44's synced and found that after about 20 minutes the drift was audible if tried to use the files as is. I had to stretch on set of files to get a perfect match. That's one of the few things I did not like about the R-44 and a reason I made a switch to the DR-680. Hope that helps
That's interesting about the clock. On page 73 of the manual they say that "linking doesn't guarantee the exact same REC start time. However, on page 80 it says control sync gives you "Word clock sync". Well I'll find out tomorrow how everything goes. We'll be doing 1 track mono sbd (vocals), direct out of the bass amp and mics for the rest. Thanks for everybody's input, I'll report back once I've played with it a little.
Chuck
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You're right the manual has a one line statement implying the clocks lock, they do not. I talked to Edirol Tech support way back when and it does not lock the clocks together. The disclaimer about the transport starting in reality means there is some latency between the time you hit record on the master and when the slave starts to respond. Usually less than a second. You can always hope that you somehow manage to get two units that miraculously run the same. But my real world experience was after`20 minutes you easily hear the difference. Hits on a snare drum started to sound like two hits etc. Stretching/shrinking files to match exactly can be tedious and time consuming.
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Okay, thanks Kirk.
Chuck
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An experienced classical recording engineer I know uses a pair of R-44's regularly and has no drift issues in long concert recordings. I have no idea why peoples' mileage varies in this matter. I wonder whether anyone has tried testing what goes down the sync cable in use? Just an initial signal to start/stop, or something continuous intended to prevent drift?
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Yeah, that drift after 20 minutes seems odd between two machines of the same make. I have used the R-4 pro to record plays and concerts for 2-3 hour stretches, and it lined up great with audio from my video camera. Now my Zoom H4 was a drifting mo-fo, but not these Edirols from my experience. And why would the manual say the clocks are locked if they didn't? Could it be some form of user error?
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Chad this was discussed in various threads previously......Saying it could be some form of user error and stating it seems odd two devices run different shows that you don't quite understand how the decks work. Do you know that two crystals, used for stabilizing the timing, will not run the same independently? A number of issues cause this including that it is just their nature, humidity & temperature to name a few. If they do it is sheer coincidence. Also there are misprints in manuals, especially when you take into account that in this case it is literally a one line statement at nearly the very last part of the very last page of the manual. This description taken directly from Edirol R-44 website(where it is much easier to post correct information without reprinting hundreds of manuals):
Capture eight channels by linking two units
The Control Sync terminal enables synchronized operation of 2 units. Control the second unit from the master by simply connecting two with a stereo mini cable. The master unit can remotely control REC standby, REC start and REC stop of the slave unit. This function enables 8-channel recording in a compact space and at an affordable price.
Hey, call Edirol Tech support yourself (360) 594-4282 and tell them that two of the exact same models of R-44 when synced with the cable have a timing drift issue and see what they say.
OR the search feature here on TS would reveal this:
UPDATE on drift issue.
I just hung up the phone with Edirol Tech support. It has been confirmed that the sync cord DOES NOT lock the clocks together. And it is "very unlikely" that it will ever be addressed on this unit. It is a combination of a hardware and software issue that keeps it from happening. Other than getting an R-4 Pro the tech's suggestion was to stop the decks and restart them. Which would keep restarting the clocks keeping them close. He also stated he was not surprised that the drift issue started happening at about 20 mins. SO, the final result is sync cord or not, the two decks will NOT run at exactly the same speed. The Sync cord ONLY starts and stops the decks at APPROXIMATELY the same time. Now you have it folks straight from the horses mouth.
OZpeter the R-4 pro does allow you to sync it's clock to an external source. I had looked at that unit but the price VS the Tascam DR-680 cinched the deal for me. Another strange but true fact is that a friends standalone Marantz CDR ran DEAD ON to my R-44 so it's possible that your friend got two decks that ran the same, or at least close enough to be consider the same. My experience is that there can be some discrepancy that is not exactly audible, or at least not unpleasantly or noticeably audible as long as it is very small. In the milliseconds range. Beyond that I could hear it start to creep into a change in the sound. The other thing that could be happening is that he stops and restarts the decks between numbers?
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Fair enough Kirkd.
I was just reacting to the description that after 20 min you could audibly hear two drum hits where one should be. My thinking was that even with units that are absolutely not locked, a time discrepancy like that is not common in my experience with Edirol gear (R-4Pro & R-44). Though I have read through over 100 pages of threads on the R-44 here, not all the esoteric findings of users have remained in my wee little mind. It starts to become a fog. So I apologize for possibly putting out bad info. When things don't go right for me my first troubleshooting course of action is to consider user error, especially since many report great record times with acceptable levels of drift. But knowing now that two R-44s can have that much clock variation further reinforces that I made the right choice by ordering a Busman DR-680 that will arrive Monday. Chris Johnson is carrying them pre-modded, with warranties.
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According to the Oade site, the R-44 has "Word clock sync and start/stop remote control of 2 units but remote control function does not guarantee the exact same REC start time " - and I would have thought he'd know the inner workings of the machine.
Checking on my colleague's emails he reports that his pair remain in sync even when auto file splitting on long 24/96 concert recordings.
A mystery, until someone actually tests the output of the sync port (which I might try to do myself).
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I've heard reports of linked R-44s staying synced, and other people reporting that theirs did not. FWIW, the clocks in my two original R-09's are very, very close and I haven't noticed much problem over the course of a 2hrs file (24/48, 2GB).
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Well, I got my power in/outs crossed the other day at a show and it looks like I fried the DC-in. The AA Battery works just fine but I can't get the recorder to power up using the plug. I called Roland and they said they no longer service the 44 and have no replacement parts.
What should I do? Do I now have a really expensive paper weight?
Crap. :-\
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Well, I got my power in/outs crossed the other day at a show and it looks like I fried the DC-in. The AA Battery works just fine but I can't get the recorder to power up using the plug. I called Roland and they said they no longer service the 44 and have no replacement parts.
What should I do? Do I now have a really expensive paper weight?
Crap. :-\
Are you sure that your cable isn't the problem? Do you have a meter that you can use to check the cable and battery?
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I used the home wall adapter as well with no luck.
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Doesn't Busman mod these? Maybe he can help. Wont hurt to ask. I know Oade wont touch it unless he sold it.
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I called Roland and they said they no longer service the 44 and have no replacement parts.
Really? The R-44 is a current production model (as is the R-4 Pro).
The older, original R-4 was discontinued around the time the R-44 showed up, maybe the person you spoke with confused the two.
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I need the coax in on my R44 serviced. Any suggestions on who to call (other than the Edirol/Roland hotline)?
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I just sent an email to Roland via support@rolandsystemsgroup.com and they confirmed that they do repair/support the R44. The responder that can setup service is "Ted Rosen" <ted@rolandsystemsgroup.com>.
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I called them last week because my r09hr no longer turns on (I think its my fault) but in order to issue an RMA, it is $75/hour or something pretty high. Did Ted provide you a price?
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Just read through some of the posts that had come in after my questions about syncing 2 units so thought I'd reply how we made out. For the first set the slave machine started later than the master. For the second set, that reversed. However, once the start is synced, there does not appear to be any drift. Now the hard part is deciding on the final mix. We'll probably be trying this again on Thanksgiving.
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Love my R-44 but hate the level meters. Always running lower than I want. Anyone have any tricks/tips on how to more accurately read them?
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Love my R-44 but hate the level meters. Always running lower than I want. Anyone have any tricks/tips on how to more accurately read them?
Left channel names reverse colors when clipping on analog, the tiny little box at the end of each channel meter is for digital clipping. One thing I do is keep hitting the headphone knob until no channels are output. That removes those indicators from the screen so that it is easier to spot when it is clipping on the analog side. It just removes some screen clutter. When I'm just recording for my own uses I run 24 bit and just bring it up in post but there is a limit to that. You do want to be within a reasonable range. You don't want it too low. Since I've been working with John R's archive team and run the outputs of the R-44 into two CD burners, I've been using the digital gain knobs to get levels up but otherwise "set 'em and forget 'em" thing (at unity).
Every once in a while I hunt for a decent external meter for the input side, one where I can see a clipping light from across the room. The reason is that I'm now mixing a radio broadcast at our old stomping grounds, the Bradfordville Blues Club and the board I use is all the way up by the band, next to the main soundboard. The meter on the board itself is some help but not very accurate. Everything I've found is aimed at studios and is way too expensive for me and certainly not something you would want to use in the field. I could buy a new board with a meter attachment for about the same money ... and might next year!
There are some meters made for video cameras that might work in the field. They are usually only two channel though. They also are usually XLR in and 3.5mm out. I wonder if there are any that are XLR in and mini-XLR out? They are usually powered by a basic 9v battery so no worries about that.
Trying to get a perfect level is really an old analog tape thing where you wanted to get the tape as saturated as possible before serious clipping. I heard the expression "lick it but don't stick it" a couple of weeks ago. It was appropriate for what I was doing at the time (archiving to the burners) but not for my normal scenario where I can bring up levels in post.
BTW, if anyone has spotted a reasonable set of bright LED meters that are RCA in & out, I'm looking for them. I want to use them on the output of my R-44. That's for the archiving projects where often I'm out in the bright sun and I can't see the damn levels on the CD burners. I also need a "HEY, STUPID!!!" meter at times. Have they invented one of those yet?
BTW, ya should have been at Bear Creek Alex! Good stuff indeed!
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Love my R-44 but hate the level meters. Always running lower than I want. Anyone have any tricks/tips on how to more accurately read them?
There are some meters made for video cameras that might work in the field. They are usually only two channel though. They also are usually XLR in and 3.5mm out. I wonder if there are any that are XLR in and mini-XLR out? They are usually powered by a basic 9v battery so no worries about that.
Trying to get a perfect level is really an old analog tape thing where you wanted to get the tape as saturated as possible before serious clipping. I heard the expression "lick it but don't stick it" a couple of weeks ago. It was appropriate for what I was doing at the time (archiving to the burners) but not for my normal scenario where I can bring up levels in post.
BTW, if anyone has spotted a reasonable set of bright LED meters that are RCA in & out, I'm looking for them. I want to use them on the output of my R-44. That's for the archiving projects where often I'm out in the bright sun and I can't see the damn levels on the CD burners. I also need a "HEY, STUPID!!!" meter at times. Have they invented one of those yet?
BTW, ya should have been at Bear Creek Alex! Good stuff indeed!
I had not thought about it, but it seems an excellent idea, I have the same problems with the R44 meters, are too small to provide a good read and avoid the area closer to saturation (the limit is too violent in the R44) leaving somewhat lower levels. Is anyone interested in making a good portable 4 channels LEDmeter with 4 RCA input and works with a 9V battery would be interested in buying one. Thanks so much!
Erick del Valle
Santiago de Chile
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Rack mountable (19") LED stereo "VU" meters with RCA in and out with adjustable levels and powerstrip on back for $50.... Maybe useful for someone, maybe not.
http://www.dak.com/reviews/3275story.cfm
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If it really meant anything I would like it but alas its just purty lights. But on a related note, just what sort of signal is coming out of the outputs of the R-44? Line level?
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BTW, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level
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Not exactly what most of us are looking for but I might try using some of these virtual meters with my Netbook:
http://www.darkwood.demon.co.uk/PC/meter.html
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Cursious besides the flash media vs. hard drive, What are the differences between the R4 and R-44? I know there is a team thread, but I though someone could give me the quick low down. Thanks
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Not positive but doesn't the R-4 give a clock signal out? Handy if you record video.
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Rack mountable (19") LED stereo "VU" meters with RCA in and out with adjustable levels and powerstrip on back for $50.... Maybe useful for someone, maybe not.
http://www.dak.com/reviews/3275story.cfm
Yeah, something like that, but 4 channels no more than 150 mms long and that works with 9V! (maybe a copy of the led meters on a 744T)
If it really meant anything I would like it but alas its just purty lights. But on a related note, just what sort of signal is coming out of the outputs of the R-44? Line level?
tape level (-10db)
Not exactly what most of us are looking for but I might try using some of these virtual meters with my Netbook:
http://www.darkwood.demon.co.uk/PC/meter.html
That's a good idea too, but I prefer to left the netbook in house.
Greetings
Erick del Valle
Santiago de Chile
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Interesting...
http://sound.westhost.com/project60.htm
Maybe one of the "capos" in electronics that circulate in this forum would dare to do something like this in 4 channels.
Saludos E.
Erick del Valle
Santiago de Chile
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I do have one of these that is doing nothing at the moment. I wondered about converting it. Probably more hassle that its worth for me.
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Wow, maybe a little expensive, each ledmeter for $95. but watch it works, amazing!
http://www.jlmaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=143
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slightly further down the kit food chain, the 5fish option...
http://fivefishstudios.com/component/content/article/56
happy thanksgiving for those in the us...
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Wow, maybe a little expensive, each ledmeter for $95. but watch it works, amazing!
http://www.jlmaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=143
I like the way that display looks and the variety of display settings but it does seem a bit steep, esp. when you include the rack mount, etc. The peak hold is nice and having more than a few segments like those cheap kits on eBay is nice.
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Here's what some folks use: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-BeachTek-SVU-1-Compact-Stereo-VU-Meter-Beach-Tek-/250730157575?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a60ae9607
RCA jacks in and out
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Looks promising for a number of reasons: http://www.markertek.com/Audio-Equipment/Audio-Interface/Impedance-Matching-Transformer/Sescom/SES-OTLMAX.xhtml?SES-OTLMAX
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Here's what some folks use: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-BeachTek-SVU-1-Compact-Stereo-VU-Meter-Beach-Tek-/250730157575?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a60ae9607
RCA jacks in and out
I think that could be this:
http://www.signvideo.com/vu150_audio-meter.htm
100 hours with one battery and cheaper
Erick del Valle
Santiago de Chile
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I recently stumbled upon someone writing in another forum about the Timecode "capabilities" of the R-44. Since I haven't found anything about his point in this forum (correct me if I'm wrong) but find it quite interesting, here it is: If you record BWF files, you get a tagged freerun Timecode. With a video camera that can record freerun TC and an editing suite that can read it (Final Cut Pro and Avid can do it) you should somehow (I didn't figure out how exactly though) be able to sync all of the video with all of the audio by adjusting the audio with the video TCs (should work with any slate clap).
I opened one of the BWF files recorded with my R-44 in Quicktime, pressed Ctrl+J and activated the Timecode bar. That way I get the freerun TC (though it doesn't look like a real day time code).
This seems to be an important feature for audio for video production.
Wow I do not noticed this, can anybody confirm where is this info?
Thanks in advance!
Erick del Valle
Santiago de Chile
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I had previously reported issues getting the USBPre 2 to work with my Edirol R44. Found out the issue was entirely on the R44 side. I've tested my USBPre 2 with another R44 with no issues.
My R44 is on its way back home from Edirol getting the coax in fixed. During hardware testing they found nothing wrong. During software diagnostic testing they found a glitch that killed to coax in. Reflashed via diagnostic testing and it's back up and running. Glad I didn't break it but was very weird. 1st time the tech had seen that issue.
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Did they charge for the re-flash?
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Did they charge for the re-flash?
Nope. They called explain the situation. If it happens again they would want to send the unit to Japan.
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Cursious besides the flash media vs. hard drive, What are the differences between the R4 and R-44? I know there is a team thread, but I though someone could give me the quick low down. Thanks
The biggest difference, and why I upgraded to an R-44, is that you can only run two channels on the R-4 when running digital in.
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Thanks Ted! I could see that being a hassle.
Cursious besides the flash media vs. hard drive, What are the differences between the R4 and R-44? I know there is a team thread, but I though someone could give me the quick low down. Thanks
The biggest difference, and why I upgraded to an R-44, is that you can only run two channels on the R-4 when running digital in.
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Talking about reflashing the firmware, KEEP A SD card (you know, like the small capacity cart they sent with the unit). You'll need one of the older cards to reflash a lot of the devices that use SD & SDHC cards. Not just recorders but GPS units, etc.
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Cursious besides the flash media vs. hard drive, What are the differences between the R4 and R-44? I know there is a team thread, but I though someone could give me the quick low down. Thanks
The biggest difference, and why I upgraded to an R-44, is that you can only run two channels on the R-4 when running digital in.
FWIW, I'm pretty sure the R-4 Pro can also record both digital & analog at the same time.
-Dan.
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correct
Cursious besides the flash media vs. hard drive, What are the differences between the R4 and R-44? I know there is a team thread, but I though someone could give me the quick low down. Thanks
The biggest difference, and why I upgraded to an R-44, is that you can only run two channels on the R-4 when running digital in.
FWIW, I'm pretty sure the R-4 Pro can also record both digital & analog at the same time.
-Dan.
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Love my R-44 but hate the level meters. Always running lower than I want. Anyone have any tricks/tips on how to more accurately read them?
I typically run 140>V3 in via SPDIF on 1 & 2 and then an analog console feed on 3 & 4. I use the meters on my V3 for accuracy and then on the R-44 match the analog levels to [approximately] match those of my digital IN.
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I just ran a polarity test that I should have run a long time ago--the outcome was OK (whew).
When I make four-channel recordings with my R44, generally I use a Grace Lunatec V3 preamp on the main channels because of its accurate level metering and switchable high-pass filtering. I connect the V3's S/P-DIF (coaxial digital) output to the S/P-DIF input of the R44. It occurred to me that I should make sure that the signal polarity is the same through the V3 as recording through analog inputs 3 and 4 of the R44. So this evening I made a test using an asymmetrical test signal and a splitter cable, and verified that correct polarity is maintained through both signal pathways.
My V3 is rather old, and has been back to the factory for the signal polarity fix-up that was made available several years ago. Newer V3s are produced with correct input-to-output polarity to begin with.
--best regards
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Does anybody have the name of a contact in the EDIROL repairs department? I have a question for them. I sent my deck to an "Authorized ROLAND repairshop" who I had gotten the info for from Roland's website for a repair on the phantom power only of my R-44, and the shop totally killed my deck. It doesn't work at all any more, won't power up or anything. I made the mistake of sending it to a ROLAND repair shop as opposed to an EDIROL repair shop I was told by an annoyed EDIROL employee when I called one time. The deck worked fine when I first brought it in, I just couldn't use the phantom power. Now this repair shop says that sometimes when they are checking a deck, when they feed it power to check it that it can fry the deck and they are not responsible for it. I say bullshit they were just supposed to work on the phantom power that's it! I mean, how can you bring a working unit to a repair shop, and they get away with totally killing it and saying that it's not their fault? Does anybody know if this can be true and if there is any precedent for this type of thing? I mean, if you brought your car into the autoshop for a repair they can't kill your car and just tell you sorry, right? Anyway, nobody here should ever send their equipment to Hi-Tech Electronics in Lawrence, MA, they have no idea what they are doing.
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Send them a REGISTERED LETTER demanding that they either fix or replace your deck, or you will take your complaint to the next level. Registered letters do wonders sometimes because they have signed that they received it, and it begins a paper trail that you can use in court.
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Does anybody have the name of a contact in the EDIROL repairs department? I have a question for them. I sent my deck to an "Authorized ROLAND repairshop" who I had gotten the info for from Roland's website for a repair on the phantom power only of my R-44, and the shop totally killed my deck. It doesn't work at all any more, won't power up or anything. I made the mistake of sending it to a ROLAND repair shop as opposed to an EDIROL repair shop I was told by an annoyed EDIROL employee when I called one time. The deck worked fine when I first brought it in, I just couldn't use the phantom power. Now this repair shop says that sometimes when they are checking a deck, when they feed it power to check it that it can fry the deck and they are not responsible for it. I say bullshit they were just supposed to work on the phantom power that's it! I mean, how can you bring a working unit to a repair shop, and they get away with totally killing it and saying that it's not their fault? Does anybody know if this can be true and if there is any precedent for this type of thing? I mean, if you brought your car into the autoshop for a repair they can't kill your car and just tell you sorry, right? Anyway, nobody here should ever send their equipment to Hi-Tech Electronics in Lawrence, MA, they have no idea what they are doing.
I had my R44 serviced by the Roland group. I sent an email to Roland via support@rolandsystemsgroup.com and "Ted Rosen" <ted@rolandsystemsgroup.com> setup the repair and followed up afterwards. The shipment was directly to the official Edirol repair location in WA.
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The Ted names sounds familiar to me. I first emailed Roland about servicing my 09HR and received a reply from someone at the department whose name was most likely Ted. I have no idea what made me delete that email and keep all the other junk but I cannot find it.
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Thanks guys.
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Little experiment I did:
I've been looking around to see what the R-44 CTRL SYNC cable actually transmits/receives and came across this in the Roland FAQ:
"When two R-44s are connected via the CONTROL SYNC terminals, they share the audio clock.
Therefore, delay due to time passing does not occur with recorded data.
In addition, the operation information is also sent, and start and stop operations are also synchronized. However, there is a time lag between two R-44s and the recording start time can slightly differ.
Reference:
The clock synchronization jitter is 1000ppm or less.
Difference of recording start time between two R-44s is approximately 10msec.
If pre-recording is set, the time lag becomes larger.
Because a time lag occurs with the recording star[sic] time as mentioned above, you need to use DAW or other tools to strictly align the phases after recording."
Which appears to be word clock.
By getting a BNC cable, attached to my soundcard (RME multiface) with a bare connector and touching that against the ring of a 1/8" TRS minijack I found the following:
R-44 set as master: RME will sync to word clock (and change sample rate)
R-44 as slave- when in recording mode the sample rate will flash if sample rates do not match (eg 44.1k and 48k). It will record a file labelled as the rate it was set at (rather than incoming clock). Doesn't display anything different when sample rates are the same.
I can't do pull-up/down of sample rates on my soundcard so can't test these.
So, given that you can output/input Word Clock, with minijack-BNC connectors you should be able to sync multiple R-44's (more than 2) using BNC 'T' connectors, although the remote control probably won't work.
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Many thanks for doing those tests - at last we have good info on this. I've always maintained (based on colleagues' reports) that there is proper sync between pairs of R-44s but others here have said that it doesn't work for them, and that Roland have said there is no real sync. Based on your report I would have thought the debate is over.
(Heh, I guess that reads like "told you so"! Well...)
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As one of the people who experienced a drift issue personally AND had Edirol tell me that the units didn't sync. I went to the Roland site to look for the FAQ mentioned. Any chance that a link could be posted because I cannot find anything labeled as FAQ on their site or the R-44 pages. I'm really interested in reading something that confirms the units clocks are synced.
What my personal experiences were that the two units I used had a drift issue that starts to become noticable after about 20 minutes. Edirol tech stated that the units clocks are not synced and that the controls only handle transport functins. They also said that there are no plans to change that. This was in July of 2009.
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the FAQ article's here:
http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/faq.cfm?PRODUCT=R-44&iRcId=25711460&dsp=1
It may be a case that there's been some confusion overthe remote control (which isn't synced) and word clock. So you could be recording audio with little clock drift but not starting at the same time.
1000ppm is quite a lot of jitter compared to professional audio clocks.
also have a look at DualEyes/PluralEyes to fix non synced audio: http://www.singularsoftware.com/dualeyes.html
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Yes I was refering to using the mini plug sync cable between two decks. Thanks for the links
Edited after reading:
Well I am not sure what to make of this. Using the cable as the say I had drift issues on two different decks after the were aligned in AA3. And like I said when I called Edirol tech support they confirmed that this was indeed true. the cable only synce the transport controls so that both decks could be controled off the master deck. Yet, this says that the clocks are synced. The only wildcard here is that the slave deck was modded by Busman. Maybe that had something to do with it? Aw hell who knows anymore. it seems manufacturers can't get there stories straight anymore. Same kind of thing happened with my Tascam, recent update notes say that the 680 is not able to sync clocks even though originally it read that you could sync them. Maybe it's time for an alesis HD24 and just get it over with?
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FYI mine's a stock model, although I'd expect busman/oade just swap out the op amps in the preamps, which shouldn't have anything to do with the digital side of things.
Also is there something that comes up on the display that a unit's synched when in slave mode? When the incoming clock matched the sample rate set the display was normal. I also don't have a second R-44, I did this looking at video sync possibilities
Finally, if Roland/Edirol deny that this is a feature it's not likely they'll fix this if it's not working :(.
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What card class is everyone using? I thought I read a while back 4 worked the best. I been using a Kingston 16gb class 4 for a year now with no issues. I want to get a 32gb but want to get some feedback first.
Harrison
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My Kingston 32 GB class 4 cards from a year or two back work fine. So does a Transcend 32GB class 10 I picked up last fall.
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Sandisk Ultra class4 32GB never a problem.
Jeff
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Just always reformat once in a while, or before every take.
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Kinda off topic I know, but Im kinda stuck and would appreciate any input. Im trying to decide between the Marantz PMD661 and the Edirol R44. At them moment I dont really need the four channels but it might be nice for future. Portability isnt really that important to me, nor is battery life. Limiters on the Edirol would be nice, but seeing as how I dont have them on the Marantz PMD661 I already have its not a deal breaker. What I want to know is has anyway compared the sound recording on both of these units. I dont seem to be able to find comparison tests between the two anywhere online. Any advice shed on the matter would be much appreciated. Also, FWIW I do intend to jump up to a Sound Devices 702 (or hopefully a 704 if they ever come out with one!) but I wont have the funding for that jump until probably early next year.
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Sound Devices 704? Have you looked at the Sound Devices 744? Or if you have even deeper pockets there is the 788.
I will say that there are some things the R-44 does that beats the 744. For one thing you can set it to record as two separate stereo files. This is handy if you want to say, keep the aud and the sbd separate. I could be that the person I saw with the 744 didn't know how to configure it that way.
I have to wonder why people buy a 744 then run preamps in front of it. It would seem to me that what is coming out of the preamps is line level so the recorder is almost running as a bit bucket. I'd invest in a better preamp before jumping on a 744.
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No, there is no 704 yet. I was just saying that because a four channel without timecode (like the 702 but with four channels) would be what Id really want because it would be a lot less expensive than the 744t.
Also my question was should I upgrade to the R44 from a Marantz PMD661 and what benefit would I gain.
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Since you mention the limiters on the R-44..
I've never activated the limiter funtion on mine. Does anyone here use the limiters? What is the threshold? How do they sound? Notice any influence on the sound if the signal always peaks below the threshold?
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I've just had the external power input go on my r-44 after over 3 years of faultless running. Has anyone got a service manual?
The limiters do their job, I've used them a few times recording dialogue without a mixer in front- they're more noticeable in terms of change in background noise than the analogue ones on my sonosax mixer. I actually didn't know the threshold (thought it was about -12dBFS) and found this on gearslutz:
"Thank you for your interest in our line of EDRIOL audio field recorders. The R-44's limiter is analog and digital mixed like the R-4Pro. When you turn on the limiter, analog gain goes automatically -12dB down for prevention of digital distortion and after that passes through the digital limiter. After that the signal level goes +12dB back up again for matching total signal level.
The limiter threshold is -10 dB relative to digital full scale."
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Thanks Rich.
So it seems the strategy is that it decreases analog input stage gain by 12dB for increased headroom, then makes up that 12dB digitaly after the ADC for the same recorded level writen to the file, until signal crosses the -10dB threshold where it reduces the amount of digital make-up gain applied according to it's preprogramed attack and release settings.
Makes sense.
Note that if this summary is right, switching on the limiters raises the analog input noise floor by 12dB.
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Took my R-44 apart yesterday to see if there was an easy fix for the power issue. DC connector was still in, no fuse and the protection diode (D4, I assume) still registered a value (although would be a nightmare to replace, being surface mounted). This is what the insides look like, pretty well made- with a metal frame:
(http://static.pixelpipe.com/b9d4fb26-4a1b-486f-a95e-a150472c11fe_m.jpg)
(http://static.pixelpipe.com/86acde83-114e-4e61-b9ff-1c5080cf6d68_m.jpg)
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Having a second look at that last picture, are F4 and F1 tiny fuses?
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Having a second look at that last picture, are F4 and F1 tiny fuses?
I'd say yes, so they would of course have continuity across them. If they are open or no continuity they are bad.
Hard to make out but there is also a D5 in the photo, should have continuity in one direction and a resistance value like 0.7 ohms with the leads reversed.
Good luck and keep us posted.
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do you have bionic vision? even with glasses on I can barely make that stuff let alone tell what it is.
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well. it seems to be accepting external power again. Hooked it up to an external battery and it works again. It didnt pick up the DC supply after putting it back together. Odd.
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well. it seems to be accepting external power again. Hooked it up to an external battery and it works again. It didnt pick up the DC supply after putting it back together. Odd.
Attached is a PDF scan from the owners manual "Using External Power Sources" that may help...
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Kingston Class 6 16GB Slow Card Error w/ 4xmono @24/44.1
So I got the dreaded "slow card" error with this recently purchased card. Recorded a month earlier on same card with fresh format 2xstereo @ 24/44.1, no issues. I did not re-format the card before I began, I had the earlier 2xstereo recording which took up about 2gigs still on the card. Been using Kingston Class 6 8gb cards forever and never an issue on 2xstereo. This I believe was the first time I've tried the R-44 with 4xmono...
Anyone else have a problem with this card with similar settings? I bought 2 of these 16gb cards, same problem with both, even with fresh format. They both work fine in my Tascam dr-2d.
I tried a bunch of things. Kingston Class 6 8gb works fine at 4xmono @24/44.1. I also upgraded firmware from 1.02->1.10, still don't work.
Oh well. Wish I only bought one of these cards and tested before I bought two. At least they work in the dr-2d, and 2xstereo in the r-44, so it's not a total loss.
Love this unit otherwise, it has never failed me until now...
Thanks,
Mandoman
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I think we discussed the limiter some years back - ! - but my comment then as now is that given the reduction of analog gain that happens prior to digital limiting, you might as well reduce the analog gain yourself by 12dB or whatever you fance, and do the limiting to taste in a DAW afterwards, unless you absolutely have to do it right away. Boils down to the same thing, but you have more control of the outcome.
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Was running my R-44 this past weekend and ran into a glitch that I'd rather not try to make happen again in case it actually does something bad to the electronics. Did a search and couldn't find anything related so my apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere on the board. Figure I'd post it here for academic purposes.
So I'm running mics with phantom on channels 1&2 and a board feed on channels 3&4. Levels are good, plenty of power and everything's going fine until (about 15 minutes into the show) I decide that I want to change the monitoring to see how only the mics are sounding. The "Hold" was engaged so I had to switch that off in order to change what the headphones are monitoring. In the darkness, and not paying close enough attention, I accidentally switch off the phantom power to channel 1 while the "Hold" is still engaged instead of switching off the "Hold" button. The meters to all 4 channels instantly go flat but the deck is still recording and the time counter is ticking away. Quickly as I realized it, I switched off the "Hold" button, switched the phantom power back on to channel 1 and the levels on the meters came back like nothing had happened. The rest of the night went without incident. But, sure enough, when I loaded the tracks into the DAW on my computer, there is a 5-second gap of perfect silence across all 4 channels where it happened, the edges of which are both cleanly cut. Hmmm...
Has anyone else run into this or knows what may have happened? Is it a known glitch? Thanks.
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Feature, not glitch!
Phantom can cause an audible thump as the power comes up to spec... So edirol (UA-5 also) mutes audio for a moment on all 4 channels so that thump doesn't blow woofer cones and the like....
BTW, switching off phantom on an input will give weird high frequency whistling as power falls below spec, like bird whistling!
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Hey kids...I finally have purchased an r44 and need to buy some memory....I've read through these threads as well as the team threads but most of that info seems kind of dated....any current suggestions on media or is the 8-16gb class 4 still the way to go? Thanks!
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Capnhook and I have also just climbed onboard. We will do our best to pull some sweet sounds!
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Ahoy!
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Hey kids...I finally have purchased an r44 and need to buy some memory....I've read through these threads as well as the team threads but most of that info seems kind of dated....any current suggestions on media or is the 8-16gb class 4 still the way to go? Thanks!
Most likely that info is still dependable but I'd personally opt for class 6 if you can for its faster write speed. I've been using the same PNY 16gb, class 6 card in my R-44 for nearly 3 years and have never had any issues with it at all (knock on wood). Getting a backup just to hedge my bets.
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Trancend 32GB class 10, currently $42-$45 online.
search for TS32GSDHC10
I have several and they've been working well in all my recorders, both Edirol and Tascam.
Just bought another one last week and broke it in lastnight.
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thanks guys!
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Is the R-44 the best sounding (stock), relatively inexpensive recorder still? I might be looking to move to this if it is.
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Is the R-44 the best sounding (stock), relatively inexpensive recorder still? I might be looking to move to this if it is.
I haven't heard of a better one. Johnny Fried Chicken Boy runs his stock with no pre in front and his pulls are great. Mine is modded, but I'm honestly not sure how much diff it makes since he and I have never A/B'd our stuff.
I can sing the praises of its ruggedness and reliabilty. Mine has never failed me, is easy to operate, has a decently small footprint, and is just kind of all-around-awesome :) I've even stealthed with it before! (You can probably get about 4hrs out of it running P48 on one channel on 4xAAs). If someone gave me a 744, I'd take it, but otherwise, my R-44 is the best deck of its type I can imagine having.
If you don't need 4 channels, I'd give the Marantz 661 a look, and maybe one of the used FR2-LEs that go for dirt cheap here in the YS. Haven't used either, but both are smaller and have pretty long track records around here, as you probably know.
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Is the R-44 the best sounding (stock), relatively inexpensive recorder still? I might be looking to move to this if it is.
I haven't heard of a better one. Johnny Fried Chicken Boy runs his stock with no pre in front and his pulls are great. Mine is modded, but I'm honestly not sure how much diff it makes since he and I have never A/B'd our stuff.
I can sing the praises of its ruggedness and reliabilty. Mine has never failed me, is easy to operate, has a decently small footprint, and is just kind of all-around-awesome :) I've even stealthed with it before! (You can probably get about 4hrs out of it running P48 on one channel on 4xAAs). If someone gave me a 744, I'd take it, but otherwise, my R-44 is the best deck of its type I can imagine having.
If you don't need 4 channels, I'd give the Marantz 661 a look, and maybe one of the used FR2-LEs that go for dirt cheap here in the YS. Haven't used either, but both are smaller and have pretty long track records around here, as you probably know.
I'm just checking it out in case my DR-680 takes a crap.
Six to eight channels is nice, but I can get along pretty well with four.
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Hey kids...I finally have purchased an r44 and need to buy some memory....I've read through these threads as well as the team threads but most of that info seems kind of dated....any current suggestions on media or is the 8-16gb class 4 still the way to go? Thanks!
Mine has run flawlessly on every SD card I've stuck in it and many of those were Class 2 Walmart sale items. I've read of other people having problems with some cards but just haven't seen it myself. I do format my cards in the machine before each use, maybe that's the trick.
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The 16GB SanDisk I got at Office Max yesterday formatted, checked, and recorded and formatted again and again. I should stop in the morning and get another...wow, what a fine piece of work this r-44 is. Ahoy y'all!
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What? you went digital? ;)
How much was the 16 gig card?
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What? you went digital? ;)
How much was the 16 gig card?
Always been digital ;)
Er, it was Office Depot for $70...
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Is the R-44 the best sounding (stock), relatively inexpensive recorder still? I might be looking to move to this if it is.
I haven't heard of a better one. Johnny Fried Chicken Boy runs his stock with no pre in front and his pulls are great. Mine is modded, but I'm honestly not sure how much diff it makes since he and I have never A/B'd our stuff.
I can sing the praises of its ruggedness and reliabilty. Mine has never failed me, is easy to operate, has a decently small footprint, and is just kind of all-around-awesome :) I've even stealthed with it before! (You can probably get about 4hrs out of it running P48 on one channel on 4xAAs). If someone gave me a 744, I'd take it, but otherwise, my R-44 is the best deck of its type I can imagine having.
If you don't need 4 channels, I'd give the Marantz 661 a look, and maybe one of the used FR2-LEs that go for dirt cheap here in the YS. Haven't used either, but both are smaller and have pretty long track records around here, as you probably know.
I'm just checking it out in case my DR-680 takes a crap.
Six to eight channels is nice, but I can get along pretty well with four.
You mean when and not if?? Seriously, I hope for your sake it never craps out. I was thinking of getting a 680 at some point, but now it's not gonna happen. I honestly wish you the best with yours!
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The Capn has always been digital....in a classic 20th century sort of way. A true renaissance man!
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Besides less channels how does the R-44 compare to the Tascam DR-680? They're basically the same price new.
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Besides less channels how does the R-44 compare to the Tascam DR-680? They're basically the same price new.
Just left a response to your query over in the 680 thread (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=147677.msg1911729#msg1911729) but will repeat here for academic purposes:
This is a lightning rod for debate and has been covered in other threads (a few listed below). From what I've seen, heard and read, the quick rundown is that the 680 is capable of making great recordings and its stock mic pres are as good as/better than the ones on a stock R-44's. The source of contention appears to be the 680's reliability. Some owners have reported no problems and that it's a wonderful machine, while others have had a myriad of issues including the S/PDIF not working correctly, powering problems and a channel or the whole deck just crapping out. As always, YMMV. For my money and peace of mind, I'm sticking with the R-44; 3 years later and the only problems I've ever had with it were caused by me.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=138280.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=138280.0)
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=140606.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=140606.0)
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145206.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145206.0)
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=149806.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=149806.0)
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=123284.msg1910944#msg1910944 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=123284.msg1910944#msg1910944)
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I'm sticking with the R-44; 3 years later and the only problems I've ever had with it were caused by me.
My R-44 had one channel die on me yesterday when testing at home. Or so I thought. After much swapping of cables and demonstrating to myself that it had to be a dead channel, not a dead mic or cable, I realised that the digital level knob for that channel was all the way down...
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I'm sticking with the R-44; 3 years later and the only problems I've ever had with it were caused by me.
My R-44 had one channel die on me yesterday when testing at home. Or so I thought. After much swapping of cables and demonstrating to myself that it had to be a dead channel, not a dead mic or cable, I realised that the digital level knob for that channel was all the way down...
:yack: I've had the same exact scenario happen to me. [wipes egg off face]
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What? you went digital? ;)
How much was the 16 gig card?
Always been digital ;)
Er, it was Office Depot for $70...
That's kind of high. I bought my 16GB cards at Wally World for about $25 each on sale. Watch the ads! I just bought two class 4, 8GB cards at Big Lots for $10 each. Those will hold an average nights worth of music.
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YEAH, got me a r44! Secondhand, like new! ;D ;D
Quick question. As I do not have new (xlr)-mics yet. Can i use my AT831 mics with a minijack? With an xlr-adapter?
Correct me if i am wrong, but i won't be needing the batterybox (JKlabs, 3 gain + 9v), right?
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YEAH, got me a r44! Secondhand, like new! ;D ;D
Quick question. As I do not have new (xlr)-mics yet. Can i use my AT831 mics with a minijack? With an xlr-adapter?
Correct me if i am wrong, but i won't be needing the batterybox (JKlabs, 3 gain + 9v), right?
pretty sure that would be fine. the only thing i see that might be a problem is possibly sending too much power to the mic. but someone might know more than me, that's for sure.
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YEAH, got me a r44! Secondhand, like new! ;D ;D
Quick question. As I do not have new (xlr)-mics yet. Can i use my AT831 mics with a minijack? With an xlr-adapter?
Correct me if i am wrong, but i won't be needing the batterybox (JKlabs, 3 gain + 9v), right?
pretty sure that would be fine. the only thing i see that might be a problem is possibly sending too much power to the mic. but someone might know more than me, that's for sure.
Well now, that is what i worry about a bit. Heard about that too, so if someone could explain this, that would be nice...
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How are your AT831's terminated: stereo pair into a single 1/8" stereo plug, individual XLR's, etc?
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How are your AT831's terminated: stereo pair into a single 1/8" stereo plug, individual XLR's, etc?
Stereo pair into a single 1/8" stereo plug it is...
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Stereo pair into a single 1/8" stereo plug it is...
Ok. If you run them by using a 1/8" stereo jack split into two XLR's into your R-44 and turn on the phantom, you will probably fry the mics. I don't know what the result would be (ie: any signal) if you tried running them sans phantom or if you put a battery box in between the mics and the R-44 to power them but it might be worth a try.
Another option that will work is to buy a Naiant PFA (http://naiant.com/naiant/inlinedevices.html), which steps down 48v phantom power from the recorder to a voltage that your mics can handle. It's also made by a member of this board, Jon a.k.a. mshilarious.
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Another option that will work is to buy a Naiant PFA (http://naiant.com/naiant/inlinedevices.html), which steps down 48v phantom power from the recorder to a voltage that your mics can handle. It's also made by a member of this board, Jon a.k.a. mshilarious.
You MUST do this. You will absolutely damage them at some point by accidental exposure to phantom power. The Naiant PFA guarantees that they will always see the proper voltage anytime you plug them into an R44 or a mixing console that supplies phantom power.
A battery box with DC blocking capacitors might also work, but it may not prevent voltage spikes. The PFA has been tested under all sorts of horrible conditions to ensure it never ever supplies more voltage than it should.
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Stereo pair into a single 1/8" stereo plug it is...
Ok. If you run them by using a 1/8" stereo jack split into two XLR's into your R-44 and turn on the phantom, you will probably fry the mics. I don't know what the result would be (ie: any signal) if you tried running them sans phantom or if you put a battery box in between the mics and the R-44 to power them but it might be worth a try.
Another option that will work is to buy a Naiant PFA (http://naiant.com/naiant/inlinedevices.html), which steps down 48v phantom power from the recorder to a voltage that your mics can handle. It's also made by a member of this board, Jon a.k.a. mshilarious.
this is what i use, although i bought mine from soundpros, much cheaper (no offense to Jon of course).
edit: well, it's been about 6 years, but i remember only paying like $35 for mine. looks like they've gone way up for some reason...?
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-ADD-XLR-PHANTOM-PAIR
if i were buying today, i'd go with Jon's stuff.
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Stereo pair into a single 1/8" stereo plug it is...
Ok. If you run them by using a 1/8" stereo jack split into two XLR's into your R-44 and turn on the phantom, you will probably fry the mics. I don't know what the result would be (ie: any signal) if you tried running them sans phantom or if you put a battery box in between the mics and the R-44 to power them but it might be worth a try.
Another option that will work is to buy a Naiant PFA (http://naiant.com/naiant/inlinedevices.html), which steps down 48v phantom power from the recorder to a voltage that your mics can handle. It's also made by a member of this board, Jon a.k.a. mshilarious.
this is what i use, although i bought mine from soundpros, much cheaper (no offense to Jon of course).
edit: well, it's been about 6 years, but i remember only paying like $35 for mine. looks like they've gone way up for some reason...?
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-ADD-XLR-PHANTOM-PAIR
if i were buying today, i'd go with Jon's stuff.
Thanks all, I will check out Jon's and SP's but not hook them up directly to the r44. Good advice!
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Jon's Niant PFAs have worked really well
with the R44 [edit] with every recorder I've plugged them into (R44, DR680, 722) in my experience. I ran two pair of them into an OCM R44 for a very compact mobile FOB rig at Bear Creek this last weekend and chose that specific combo because 'it just works'- simple and reliable in tough conditions. Stongly endorsed here.
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count me in the camp of fans of Naint's PFA... functional and easy and safe to use!
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Just a quick check-in. I'm like 3+ years and several hundred recordings in without a single glitch due to my R-44. Reliability has literally been 100% for me. Freakin' sweet deck.
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Just a quick check-in. I'm like 3+ years and several hundred recordings in without a single glitch due to my R-44. Reliability has literally been 100% for me. Freakin' sweet deck.
Me too! And I've even dropped mine once. If I had the money I'd buy four more!
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Jon's Niant PFAs have worked really well with the R44 [edit] with every recorder I've plugged them into (R44, DR680, 722) in my experience. I ran two pair of them into an OCM R44 for a very compact mobile FOB rig at Bear Creek this last weekend and chose that specific combo because 'it just works'- simple and reliable in tough conditions. Stongly endorsed here.
That's good to read. I recently picked up a PFA for use with my 4061's or CA-14 cards and a friend's DR680. It's nice to know that I can run his AKG's with one of mine on an additional channel plus the board feed (if granted) and not have to worry about clock frequencies/retiming/synching/etc.
However, based on everything I've read, I'd likely go the route of the R-44 over the 680 if I was buying one today. Luckily, I can borrow my friend's 680 but if this ever changes, I'll have to get my own. :D
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An R-66 or R-88 in about the same package size would be great.
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I vote R-88 but I can see them saying that they have that now by linking two R-44s. Sadly that isn't really the case.
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Just a quick check-in. I'm like 3+ years and several hundred recordings in without a single glitch due to my R-44. Reliability has literally been 100% for me. Freakin' sweet deck.
Same here, although I'll be three years in March.
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10/31/2008 for me. GREAT recorder!
Having said as much, mine has to go, making way for the new to me Alesis HD24!
Two channels was never enough with an iRiver, so that led to 2 iRivers... Syncing multiple clocks sucks!
That led to an R-44, 4 was cool for a while with a stereo pair onstage, but the interest of close mic'ing sources plus stage pair led to..
Zoom r-16, great deck despite not much love here on TS.com, but 8 isn't quite enough...
Since no one makes an 11 or 13 track recorder.... 24 it is! >:D
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Having said as much, mine has to go, making way for the new to me Alesis HD24!
Zoom r-16, great deck despite not much love here on TS.com, but 8 isn't quite enough...
I haven't played enough with my R-16 to say one way or the other. I hope to get a JoeCo 24 channel recorder next year.
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I really do love my r-16, very capable recorder, if the limitation of 2 phantom channels isn't a problem... And it never is for my style. A zoom in the same format with 16 inputs would really be ideal, this new rig of a 6U rack pushes the limit of my 1 trip load-in rule.... But $500 was too good to pass up!
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I really do love my r-16, very capable recorder, if the limitation of 2 phantom channels isn't a problem... And it never is for my style. A zoom in the same format with 16 inputs would really be ideal, this new rig of a 6U rack pushes the limit of my 1 trip load-in rule.... But $500 was too good to pass up!
Take a look at this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/672922-REG/JoeCo_BBR1_BBR1_BLACKBOX_RECORDER.html
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Panatrope's law - the number of channels required for a recording is always one greater than the number available.
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Panatrope's law - the number of channels required for a recording is always one greater than the number available.
No doubt, especially since I find myself needing odd numbers of channels- 5, 7, 9, or 11
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I really do love my r-16, very capable recorder, if the limitation of 2 phantom channels isn't a problem... And it never is for my style. A zoom in the same format with 16 inputs would really be ideal, this new rig of a 6U rack pushes the limit of my 1 trip load-in rule.... But $500 was too good to pass up!
Take a look at this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/672922-REG/JoeCo_BBR1_BBR1_BLACKBOX_RECORDER.html
Take a look at the $2500 price as well.... For $500, plus 200 for a rackmount and using two dual preamps I already owned, I have 24 balanced in channels.
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What kind of cards do I need for the r44?
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What kind of cards do I need for the r44?
i've used kingston 16gb class 4 and some off brand 32gb class 10. never any problems running four channels 24/96. just make sure it's class 4 or higher and i think you'll be safe.
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Compact flash? sd?
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Compact flash? sd?
SD. sorry.
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Checking in, got my R-44 a week or so ago. I'm curious, mine is a Roland rather than an Edirol or an Edirol by Roland. Anybody else have the completely rebranded version yet?
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They stopped using the Edirol name a while ago!! Similar to the Roland R-05 instead of using Edirol so you would have to purchase one new with in the last year or so.
Checking in, got my R-44 a week or so ago. I'm curious, mine is a Roland rather than an Edirol or an Edirol by Roland. Anybody else have the completely rebranded version yet?
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They stopped using the Edirol name a while ago!! Similar to the Roland R-05 instead of using Edirol so you would have to purchase one new with in the last year or so.
Checking in, got my R-44 a week or so ago. I'm curious, mine is a Roland rather than an Edirol or an Edirol by Roland. Anybody else have the completely rebranded version yet?
Yeah, but I've seen a couple "new" ones in the field that were labeled "Edirol by Roland." Must've been old stock.
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I can't honostly say that I've paid attention to the labeling on the R44!! I only know one taper locally that runs the R44. Are you gonna have yours modded or keep it stock??
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Another R-44 newb question. I bought a Sandisk class 4, 32Gb card to run in it. Got a great price, so I didn't look too close, but when it arrived it was actually MicroSD. I figured, I goofed but I also have an M10 I can use it in, so I might as well try it out with the adapter. Formatted it, and after 2 shows no issues yet. Did I luck out, or are folks doing this regularly?
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I can't honostly say that I've paid attention to the labeling on the R44!! I only know one taper locally that runs the R44. Are you gonna have yours modded or keep it stock??
Stock for now. I've run it twice as an all in one, now I'm going to see if either of my pres makes a difference in front of it. From what I've heard, the internal pres sound fine. No color that I can hear.
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Another R-44 newb question. I bought a Sandisk class 4, 32Gb card to run in it. Got a great price, so I didn't look too close, but when it arrived it was actually MicroSD. I figured, I goofed but I also have an M10 I can use it in, so I might as well try it out with the adapter. Formatted it, and after 2 shows no issues yet. Did I luck out, or are folks doing this regularly?
I regularly use a microsdhc card w/ an SDHC Adapter w/ zero issues :)
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always 24/44.1 mono here, with CLASS 2, never failed, lots of recording time...
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i would be able to run spdif in (from the ad2k+) for two channels and xlr in for the other two channels (sbd) and use the ad2k+ to clock all four channels, right...
from what i read, this unit has no problem being powered reliably in the field...
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i would be able to run spdif in (from the ad2k+) for two channels and xlr in for the other two channels (sbd) and use the ad2k+ to clock all four channels, right...
from what i read, this unit has no problem being powered reliably in the field...
Someone can step in and call me an idiot if I am wrong.
You can do Dig + Ana and run SPDIF on 1 & 2 and an analog set via the combo jacks (1/4" / XLR) on 3 & 4. As for the clock the R-44 will sync both up for you so there is no need.
I run Stereo x 2 at 24/48 all day long and just drop the files in and editor and render away. (Maybe a slight delay added if my mics are not on stage.)
Do not quote me on this but I think that the R-44 may resample on the analog channels. I never bothered to look around to see so hopefully someone will speak up and clarify it for me too. B/C if it doesn't then I will pick up a pre to put in between the console and my R-44 too.
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ugh. i dont want anything resampled or reclocked. i want the ad2k to feed a digi in for two channels, and i want the other two channels (from say a sbd feed) to sync also to that external clock.
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the r-44 does not resample
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the r-44 does not resample
can i sync all 4 channels to the external clock of the ad2k+ via spdif..?
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There is a single clock in the R-44 that syncs all the channels, so if you are recording on all 4 channels on an R-44 at the same time they will all be in sync. Also of note, we (acidjack, danlynch, hi and lo and I) have several times been able to clock-sync two R-44's via S/PDIF through a Sound Devices USBPre2 for a total of 8 perfectly synced channels; it's painlessly easy to do. Don't know for sure, but I imagine you might be able to do that through any device that has both S/PDIF in and out connections.
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the r-44 does not resample
can i sync all 4 channels to the external clock of the ad2k+ via spdif..?
Yes. In that case the R44 uses the ad2k clock source via the inbound SPDIF stream instead of it's own internal clock. The four channels will always be clocked the same, regardess if the machine is using it's internal clock (all analog inputs) or the SPDIF clock source (digital input, with or without additional analog channels).
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so the dif. btwn the r44 and the 680, besides the extra channels, is the 680 has better stock preamps, but is much more finicky in regards to consistent field power and accepting a spdif digi-in..?
edit:
also, any concerns re: build quality..? i have a few taper buddies who swear off edirol products, though they just vaguely cite build quality as a reason...
thanks, in advance.
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R-44 is tough and hearty, I have no concerns about it's build. It seems to have proven it's reliabily with everyone around here.
Not sure about the comparison between preamps. My R-44 is Oade modded. The 680 pres may be quieter than the stock R-44 ones, but I'm not sure of that. I don't hear a significant difference between the two, but I've never set up a dedicted test.
The R-44 is simplier to set up and run and generally problem-free, the 680 has more channels and options for simultaneous adjustment of gain for all channels or combinations of them. My 680 has had no problems with power or digital inputs, but obviously others have has some issues.
Practically, I think it comes down to how many channels you really want / need.
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Just something to keep in mind, when I had my R-44 apart I noticed that it does have one of those quarter sized "watch" batteries in it I assume to hold settings. I wish I had taken the time to write down the number. If you have had yours for years and it will no longer keep the settings, it may need a new battery.
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Don't know for sure, but I imagine you might be able to do that through any device that has both S/PDIF in and out connections.
it must be a unit that can just clock from the spdif stream. otherwise you will get the same audio that on that spdif signal too.
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would a Lexar 16GB SDHC Memory Card Professional Class 10 card do the trick for 4ch @ 24/96..?
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would a Lexar 16GB SDHC Memory Card Professional Class 10 card do the trick for 4ch @ 24/96..?
it should. i've done that with cheaper brands.
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thanks. anyone try the 32gb version..?
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thanks. anyone try the 32gb version..?
your best bet is to run the card how you would for a show... while at home. put it through the extremes at home, and it shouldn't fail you in the field.
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just joined the team
;)
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Nice. ;D
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Hi!
I am a happy owner of an R-44 (no mod). I am a violinist, living in the north of germany. I intend to do some classical chamber music recordings. By now, my Mics are a pair of Neumann Km 184 and a pair of Rode Nt5. I try to get 2 used Sennheiser MKH 40.
I read thru all 4 parts of the R-44 thread, and I just registered to post my question refering to preamps:
Does it make sense to use a RME Quadmic, does anybody now about the increase in quality?
Would be glad if somebody knows and/or tried out.
-audiolino
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Interesting, the RME Quadmic can take 7-30V DC or 7-30 AC (written on the back of the unit, RME's web site says "Operates with voltages ranging from 7-38V DC, 7-27V AC"). Anyway, I have no experience with this particular unit but have seen people run their computer interfaces in the field. I've never heard anything bad about them but don't know how the Quadmic would measure up against something like a Grace V3.
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@cybergaloot
Thank you for your answer.
I will formulate my question more precisely.
Are the preamps of a RME Quadmic significant better, than the build in preamps of the R-44?
I know, running a Quadmic in front of the Edirol won,t bypass the build in preamps.
Do you use external preamps, wich ones you use, and how would you describe the differences?
Perhaps some of you use a 2 channel preamp with A/D converter, and run in the R-44 via S/PDIF.
I would be glad, if you can tell me your experiences.
-sorry for my poor english
-audiolino
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twenty seven pages. i started part five of the discussion here (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=153957.0)....
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I've used the Quadmic with the R-44, the quadmic pres are less noisy when you turn up the gain. Both preamps sound quite neutral.
Hi!
I am a happy owner of an R-44 (no mod). I am a violinist, living in the north of germany. I intend to do some classical chamber music recordings. By now, my Mics are a pair of Neumann Km 184 and a pair of Rode Nt5. I try to get 2 used Sennheiser MKH 40.
I read thru all 4 parts of the R-44 thread, and I just registered to post my question refering to preamps:
Does it make sense to use a RME Quadmic, does anybody now about the increase in quality?
Would be glad if somebody knows and/or tried out.
-audiolino
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@RichT
Many thanks for your answer!
That was exactly what i wanted to know. I already managed to get one used Sennheiser MKH40, and the second one targeted.
Well they deliver quite high level, so no problems with the R-44 preamps, and they also have low power consumption (2mA).
Can`t be bad for the sound not to stress the phantom power to much.
-audiolino
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Hi folks,
do any of you R-44 users have any ideas about an issue i'm having:
thought i'd ask you about this as you might have some ideas. My main recorder is a Sound Devices, but I just picked an R-44 up too for students to use on courses & have been putting it through some tests. I connected some DPA 4060's & there's a strange fluttering in the low end & also some electronic signal from the recorder is picked up. The setting on the recorder are all as they should be (48v phantom on, no filters, limiters etc). Its got me scratching my head ! The mics work fine on my other recorders & i've also tested the R-44 with various other mics & it doesn't appear to happen with those. Any ideas ?
& to confuse things further:
I tried connecting the Rode Lavaliers & the Sanken - to test 'similar' mic
designs to see if there was something in the powering or even the micon
connectors that could be causing it. They both work fine so its just the DPA !
I've also noticed that the R-44, just with the DPA's, has a low hum that
vanished when you touch any of the metal parts or the 'grounding terminal' (!).
This seems really odd - as if the DPA's are somehow making the recorder 'live'
but I can't work out how it'd be doing that.
ta,
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Could some sort of ground issue. How are you connecting the 5V powered, microdot-connector equiped DPAs to the R44? Are you using the DPA XLR adaptors designed for stepping down 48V phantom power? I'd double check all your connections as well as the adaptors. Try them on another recorder to see if the same problems arise.
I use 4060s with the R44 regularly, usually with Niant PFA XLR adapters, but also the DPA XLR adapter, all of which work fine.
Side note- one of those adapters inverts signal polarity, but I haven't checked to confirm which.
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Are the mics hooked to channels 1 & 2 or to 3 & 4? Doug Oade claims the screen can cause some noise but I've never heard it myself.
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Are the mics hooked to channels 1 & 2 or to 3 & 4? Doug Oade claims the screen can cause some noise but I've never heard it myself.
This was just covered in another thread. He found very slight measurable noise in ch 1&2 due to interference from the screen, but said it was far to minimal to be noticable in any typical music recording applictation. I'd guess it's probably lower than the self-noise of the 4060s. I've never noticed it either.
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thanks for the replies so far. more info:
DPA4060's connected using DPA DAD6001 xlr adaptor - & the work fine on all my other recorders (sound devices etc) so its not the mics.
the 'fluttering' is very low volume but noticeable. The sound of the recorders electronics (a regular sound every 10 seconds or so - as if picking up the sound of the internal system refreshing or writing to the card or something) happens regardless of how far the mics are from the recorder & it doesn't change when the mics are moved. The ground hum is constant & fairly loud - this only happens with mains power & reduces to almost nothing when touching any metal part of the recorder.
The R-44 is a new unit, stock - direct from Roland, for use as a back up recorder (main kit is Sound Devices based).
ta.
ps. & this only happens with the DPA's - all other mics tested with it so far are fine.
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I've had a different mic produce similar symptoms which was caused by a ground loop. I was powering that stereo mic with an external, mains-powered phantom source while powering a second set of mics with the onboard phantom power. The recorder was battery powered, and even though there was only one mains connection, I got similar noises when I'd switch on power to that mic. I fixed it by isolating the mic body electronics from the metal mic body housing with a plastic gasket, after noticing that the sounds went away when I touched or manipulated the metal mic housing.
Since your problem occurs only on mains power and goes away when you touch the metal parts would seem to be something similar. Here are a few trouble shooting ideas-
Start with a single mic and adapter.
Does the same problem occur on each of the four input channels equally?
Does the problem occur with only the adapter plugged in without a mic attached?
Does the problem occur with the other adapters/mics or just one?
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thanks - interesting, but surely one shouldn't have to re-wire anything ! it must be something specific in the DPA / R-44 matching & the mic you were using, that is just different from most others.
Does the same problem occur on each of the four input channels equally? - YES
Does the problem occur with only the adapter plugged in without a mic attached? - YES
Does the problem occur with the other adapters/mics or just one? - YES, WITH ALL THE DPA 4060'S I HAVE.
technology eh ! :)
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The mic I had the ground problem with was a stereo LDC not a DPA. It was definitely a problem with the mic itself.
Hmmm.
Rethinking.. trying to remember if I have used the DAD6001 with the R44 or not. I typically use the DAD6001 with another recorder. I may have only used the Niant PFAs to power my 4060s with the R44. I'll pull them out and give it a try tonight if I get the time.
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ta.
I've checked the DPA's also in a Roland R-26 & a similar thing happens ! it MUST be something to do with the way Roland configures something or other. The DPA's (with the 6001 XLR plug) work fine in every other make of recorder i've used them with or know other folks have used them with. Very odd indeed. I'll email DPA & Roland too to see if they have any ideas.
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Didn't get a chance to check this wth my gear lastnight, but I always run the R-44 on battery power where you mention the issue may not arrise. The biggest challenge for me will be locating the R-44's AC adapter. :P
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happens with both battery power & mains ! on both the R-26 & the R-44 by the way ! The R-26 has low level electronic noise (not pre-amp hiss) from the display screen with all kinds of different mics so far !
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I've uploaded some very simple test recordings re the issues with the R-44 & the R-26 picking up the display panel noise - including two with the DPA's that also show some of the other issues related to those specific mics.
It seems to me that any recorder that picked up this level of electronic debris needs to be looked at seriously in terms of design. Most entry or pro-sumer level recorders will pick up a bit but these examples seem to be way above what's acceptable.
http://soundcloud.com/jrf-tests/sets/roland-r-44-r-26-issues (http://soundcloud.com/jrf-tests/sets/roland-r-44-r-26-issues)