Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: SpokenMagicSpells on December 18, 2009, 06:38:32 AM
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Hi!
Now my setup is complete :-)
CA-11
ST-9100
EDIROL R-09HR
ST-9100 just arrived 2 days ago and next month will be the first time I'll record a show using it.
I would like to know how do you use the preamp. I don't mean settings about gain, db and unity levels (there is a lot of threads about this). What I mean is how do you use the preamp together with the recorder. Where do you put it in your clothes, how do you manage the cables etc.
If this is a s.T.e.A.l.T.h question, please, reply via PM.
Thanks in advance for your support.
Regards.
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i don't feel this needs a pm because there are venues that don't allow bags in and or the gear is small so some people just use their pockets
anyway
you can carry your gear anywhere thats easy for you
i have used bags, hoodie pocket, cargo pants
cargos are my fav when i am not using a bag
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Hi! Thanks for answer.
What about the wires? How do you pass them through the clothes? Do you make holes in your clothes? :-)
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I do. 8)
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get yourself a handsome manpurse my friend.
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I sometimes take electrical tape and wrap a turn around my smaller battery box (spsb3) and then put a safety pin thru it and then I can safety pin it INSIDE my jacket or sweatshirt, then the mic connection to the box and the box itself are hidden away to prevent them accidentally getting disconnected due to crowd movements. In real crowded venues this works good, and the mic cords are largely away from getting snagged by passerbys, too.
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When it's all said and done, nothing should be visable and your concert neighbors shouldn't have any idea what is going on.
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I have a sweet pair of pants with a hole in each pocket right baout where your thumbs would go. Works like a charm.
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Mine's a little simpler. I keep preamp/bb in my back pocket, wear a long enough shirt, and run the wires to the deck in my front pocket. Haven't had a problem yet...
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I have a sweet pair of pants with a hole in each pocket right baout where your thumbs would go. Works like a charm.
...for playing pocket pool :P
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I wear a man bag. I couldn't chance anything in a pocket unless it was on "hold."
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I have a sweet pair of pants with a hole in each pocket right baout where your thumbs would go. Works like a charm.
...for playing pocket pool :P
Rack em up.... :yack:
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I have a sweet pair of pants with a hole in each pocket right baout where your thumbs would go. Works like a charm.
...for playing pocket pool :P
I like to multi task. ;D
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I have a pair of khaki's that are part of the ultra-chic, very expensive "George" line from Wal-Mart...cost about $15...that have holes sewn into the inside-top of the front pockets. Perfect for creative cable routing...
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Rule #1 turn off your cell phone. If you don't, you are apt get that diginoise. Learned that one the hard way.
Rule #2 I put my ST9100 and R09 in different pockets, because if they are too close together there is some resulting noise. Learned that one the hard way.
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rule number 1 is keep stealth....STEALTH
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rule number 1 is keep stealth....STEALTH
qftwtf
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Fair enough, but...even the slowest of event staff would have to be aware that if someone is bringing gear in then they're gonna be carrying it in their pockets/on their person. I mean...short of concealing things...internally...there aren't really any other options.
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Fair enough, but...even the slowest of event staff would have to be aware that if someone is bringing gear in then they're gonna be carrying it in their pockets/on their person. I mean...short of concealing things...internally...there aren't really any other options.
Yes, you are right, I do believe that most people could make some pretty accurate basic assumptions about pockets being involved carrying and concealing gear. That having been said, it is probably fair to assume that the OP had concluded this as well. From that point, all details concerning the how-to's of stealth recording really should not, in my opinion and the opinion of many others, be discussed in public. Particularly since the OP specifically recognized that all pointers should be directed via-PM.
It is obvious that venue staff could assume that pockets are involved, but specifics about holes, microphone placement, dissemination of gear in various pockets, and the like is all information that, though it may be assumed by venue staff, there is absolutely no benefit in confirming in public. The absolute main point to all of this dissatifaction I feel with having this conversation publicly, is that the basic cost / benefit of having it in private vs. having it in public is WAAY skewed in favor of private.... again, particularly considering that that is the medium suggested by the OP!
I just don't see any advantage whatsoever to talking about this stuff publicly, even if a lot of it "assumable."
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I keep my R-09HR and Church preamp together with a rubber band. Haven't noticed any noise yet. I carry a lightweight jacket that I keep on my lap. As I use the remote, I just bring down to the jacket and be sure I see the red recording light come on. I use most of the battery savings settings so the red recording light does not stay on. My mics are Chris' croakie style with the wires down my back and out the front of my shirt. Shirt and pants are black so it's not too noticable. Except once, at the end of the opera, when the person sitting next to said, "Did you get it all?".
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seriously??? ::)
can we get some Mod intervention on this thread please?? Something???
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This thread's in danger of total derailment...
In the interests of keeping things civil, I killed the pants pic...certainly not trying to piss anybody off. That said, the whole public/private discussion of stealth has been covered ad nauseam. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. FWIW, a very brief search of old posts will quickly reveal waaaay more info on the topic than has been discussed in this thread. Very specific information...
Also, a security professional isn't going to have to troll an internet forum to learn about methods of concealment.
for example:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=50676.0
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=15920.0
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=1891.0
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Also, a security professional isn't going to have to troll an internet forum to learn about methods of concealment.
You're implying that it hasn't happened before, which if I remember correctly is not the case. As I understood it, part of the shift in policy from talking about it to not was due to someone getting popped and finding out that it was as a result of a discussion here. I took a break from taping (and TS), and remember the shift was during that break so I'm a little fuzzy as to the exact reason.
Really, what the OP (and anyone stealth taping) needs to learn is general human behavior, and then observe security for a while (not necessarily at the same show or club, just in general). Creative and intellegent people will find the holes in what security does and their general behavior that enables them to get gear past the door. After that, it's general concealment. Don't wait till "the big gig" to learn, practice at smaller stuff after learning about human behavior.
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You're implying that it hasn't happened before
Not so much that it hasn't happened before but that a trained security goon will already be very familiar with methods of concealment in general. I've never had any problems with security myself...I just hand over my ticket, they tear it and I go to my seat. My gear is no more concealed than my wallet and keys. OTOH, I don't go to shows where pat downs and wanding take place.
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Just as long as we aren't talking about specific shows I don't see a problem. I know where to hide things were "the man" won't find anything. It's not rocket science. Venue security can only pat down part of your person. Figure out where they can't do a pat down and your golden.
As for placement. Make it comfortable. Mics higher = better.
Practice setting up at home. Over time you will learn your own way to do things. Do what works for you.
As others have said...practice at smaller shows. Maybe even practice at open taping shows.
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I keep my R-09HR and Church preamp together with a rubber band. Haven't noticed any noise yet.
I do the same thing and have not noticed any kind of diginoise.
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This thread's in danger of total derailment...
Understood... in the interest of keeping the peace, let's just keep this topic on subject by appeasing OP's request to reply via-PM. I just wrote him a dissertation over 1,000 words long with 4 hand-made graphics which covers, in great detail, one of my methods, and I'm hoping that from this point on people will be kind enough to appease those of us who think that this sort of thing should be kept on the hush by replying to the OP in the PM realm.
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Hi!
I would like to thank everybody who did reply to this question, and specially to "travelinbeat" that sent me a very good PM with lots of good information. I talk with you later... :-)
For other hand, I'm really sorry for the trouble I caused. Anyhow, how do all of you expect that this kind of subject be discussed in private if I don't make the question in public?
Should I send a PM to everyone that seems "sympathetic" to me? PM is a one-to-one conversation, with zero interaction with the community...
This is not the first time that this kind of subject is treated this way, so I think we should create some means to discuss this matter in group, but no publicly. Is this possible?
Thanks.
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Should I send a PM to everyone that seems "sympathetic" to me? PM is a one-to-one conversation, with zero interaction with the community...
this
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Travelinbeat. I tried to be a good guy and play the 'don't talk about stealth in public thing' and I also tried to remind people to keep stealth stealth. For maybe three years I carried the baton. Bottom line is I just don't care anymore. Too many people jumped my bones. Mainly the response was that there are plenty of legitimate reasons to stealth and lots of people that stealth aren't trying to cheat policy.
Thanks for trying to hold the fort...I commend you. I'd join in and support you but again, I just don't really care anymore because it's a losing battle, IMHO. Besides, honestly I really haven't seen a case where stealth discussion here on ts.com has caused any issues...other than arguments among ts.com members. It's not like clubs are monitoring ts.com to discover methods of stealthing.
Having said this, to the OP, during the winter a hoodie with a hole on the inside of the belly pocket is the best thing I've ever used. Gives you two hands to work with and the hood helps with keeping wires covered up. A kangol ventair model hat, velcro, and a sewing machine are also good to get to know.
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tonedeaf has switched to the darkside ;D
the thing that i find funny about these threads is do you really need help figuring out these so call tricks? seems pretty cut and dry to me
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tonedeaf has switched to the darkside ;D
True that!
Honestly, the straw-that-broke-the-camels-back for me was when a key ts.com person advised me that, in promoting 'keep stealth stealth', I was coming off as being overbearing and self-righteous. I know that my delivery isn't always the best, but the reality is that the ONLY reason I was responding was because I thought that I was helping to protect the integrity of the list.
Since I had no personal reason to be self-righteous or overbearing on this particular issue (many issues yes, but not this one :)), and since key list players basically didn't agree with my methods to protect the integrity of the list (calling me out as being self-righteous and overbearing), I realized that my efforts weren't accomplishing anything for me personally. So that's why I've moved to the 'dark side of indifference' on this issue.
As the saying goes...if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. I haven't stealthed for a long time, but I know a thing or two about it and can help out those that ask. ;)
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My preamp is bigger, but I carry it under my arm pit in a commercially made shoulder holster/wallet which I've modded for recording.
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the thing that i find funny about these threads is do you really need help figuring out these so call tricks? seems pretty cut and dry to me
+1
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Ask The Tapers...
Got a question about taping? We'd love to help! Newbie friendly!
Can I ask to to the site admin to remove the "Newbie friendly" from the subtitle of this section, please?
Thanks.
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Saying the discussion should go to PM's is still noob friendly. When did PM's become unfriendly?
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tonedeaf has switched to the darkside ;D
the thing that i find funny about these threads is do you really need help figuring out these so call tricks? seems pretty cut and dry to me
QFT.
As far as I am concerned, there is only one trick or secret to stealth taping: common sense. Well, that and about 10 minutes of thought.
I suspect that this will always be the case until someone discovers a new (and capacious) body cavity or a way of routing mic leads through the skeleton.
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Ask The Tapers...
Got a question about taping? We'd love to help! Newbie friendly!
Can I ask to to the site admin to remove the "Newbie friendly" from the subtitle of this section, please?
Thanks.
zamana, You're question and your posts have all been legitimate and responsible, and as such, I'd like to take a second, as perhaps the most vocal of those responsible for the animosity or agitation in this thread, to apologize on behalf of TS for making you feel responsible for the rather heated debates that are swimming around right now.
The fact of the matter is that your initial post broaches into a subject realm which is under constant contention amongst the members here: whether or not public discussion of specific stelthing techniques is kosher, and if not, and if so, what distinguishes "specific stealthing techniques" from general advice.
Again, I think that regardless of who thinks what with respect to this point, I feel that you personally have done absolutely nothing wrong in asking for input in the way you did. I have tried, with my posts, to isolate and address my concerns to fellow TS'ers who are airing their techniques publicly when I (and many others) feel that these should be kept quiet.
Now since this is a forum based on mutual respect and an environment of mutual growth and mentoring, I do feel that it is not out-of-line at all for you or anyone else to ask for help with stealthing practices. I feel that it bears repeating though, that your inquiry was made with the utmost in care granted to the belief that many may not want these techniques aired publicly. In other words, that you asked for responses to be made via-PM is a fantastic thing, and I think it speaks levels to your genuine regard for the "art" of stealthing.
I apologize that you have inadvertently triggered some debate, but please do not take it personally. A lot of us here are always debating stupid crap like this all the time. I think what matters most is that we maintain a certain level of decorum that will ensure that this forum remains to be an environment of learning and not just some petty bickering battle over pedantic nonsense.
I see that you are a rare-poster to the forum, member for bout a year and a half, and I truly hope that this experience doesn't scare you off of return visits and more frequent posts. I remember when I first started visiting TS I was terrified of saying the wrong things or looking foolish or making people upset. I lurked for a LLOOOONNNGGG time, just reading posts and following threads and rarely posting. Over time you'll come to recognize that it is really difficult to truly offend or bother or anger people unless you are making a conscious effort to do so.
This forum has been online for about 7 years, and has nearly 1.6 million posts. Many of the people here (myself included, I'm sure), can sometimes fall into the trap of forgetting that people who are new to the boards may not be privy to the enormous back-catalog of previous posts and discussions.
Basically, don't sweat it. People here, no matter how much it may not feel like it some times, are really great, knowledgeable, nice, and helpful tapers who want to help you grow in the hobby. I'm sorry for the part I've played in instigating this thread to take a turn towards the unfriendly, don't take it personally, I enjoy you and I really respect the hell out of the way you've posted.
Again, welcome to the hobby, and welcome to the (sometimes fiery) TS!
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^^^^^^^
@ travelinbeat...nicely put, although, I didn't detect any real animosity in this thread.
This is not the first time that this kind of subject is treated this way, so I think we should create some means to discuss this matter in group, but no publicly. Is this possible?
I don't see any practical way to have a private group discussion. Maybe some sort of email list? Even then, it would only be semi-private. Of course, I don't see any real problem with discussing stealth techniques. I understand that some folks feel that doing so is going to somehow give away all the 'secrets'...secrets that aren't really so secret in the first place.
Respectfully, the idea that security guys are forensically examining the million and a half posts here in an effort to figure out how people are sneaking gear in, to me seems a bit far fetched...for several reasons.
For one, these guys probably don't get paid enough to care too much what we do. Second, concealment is concealment...whether you're bringing in a pint of liquor or a pair of mics. Speaking of liquor...as a rule, that's what they're probably looking for. Liquor and weapons...things that can get people hurt and the venue/promoter/band sued. Financial liabilities. Third, stealth recording has been going on for over 40 years in some form or other. Pretty much anything you can come up with has very likely been done before and is relatively common knowledge. Fourth, these security personnel are just doing a job. They're just regular people for the most part, working to make ends meet. I'd be willing to bet that most of them are no more aware of our little hobby than the average person on the street.
I'm not trying to make waves...just sort of thinking out loud.
My preamp is bigger, but I carry it under my arm pit in a commercially made shoulder holster/wallet which I've modded for recording.
I'd thought about doing this same thing but figured heat and/or humidity might become a problem. Any issues there?
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...things that can get people hurt and the venue/promoter/band sued. Financial liabilities.
I know that this is wandering even further from the original post, but I seem to remember hearing once that a venue could potentially get sued and face some pretty serious and hefty financial repercussions for being deemed too lax on unauthorized taping. If I remember correctly, an artists' management and / or promoter has a fairly well established legal precedent for pursuing litigation against any venue with a couple of tapes floating around... essentially, part of the venue's job is to ensure that recording isn't taking place, and if it happens (and if the promoter / mgmt wants to be a bit ridiculous about it), they can sue for breach of contract.
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Never heard of that, myself. Not saying you're wrong, I just haven't heard of this. If this is the case and the law were broadly applied, we can all say goodbye to a number of legendary venues...The Catalyst, 9:30 Club, Ram's Head, The Ryman, The Showbox, The Birchmere, Variety Playhouse...so many others.
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Saying the discussion should go to PM's is still noob friendly. When did PM's become unfriendly?
Belexes,
The response to your question is: never.
But, if you misunderstood my post, and to me this is the case here, this is my fault, because I didn't say directly for what I was talking about. I was referring to this, from "-Q-":
the thing that i find funny about these threads is do you really need help figuring out these so call tricks? seems pretty cut and dry to me
This made me feel a... "sub-noob". Obviously I have my stealth methods, but I want to know what others do. What's wrong with that?
And "-Q-",
I have nothing personal against you. I can't, because I don't know you, but to me this kind of statement sounded unfriendly. It was the heat of the moment... Sorry.
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travelinbeat and nathan_g,
I would like to thank both of you by your kindly words. Even if you don't want, you are my friends now :-)
travelinbeat,
you don't need to apologize, because all you did until now was help me.
I started to tape shows in March/2008, less than 2 years ago, and I live in a big country, with more than 200 million people, but my guess is that there are half a dozen tapers here. So, from whom can I learn a bit fast than normal? From nobody, because I don't know anybody who does the same as I do. So, my only and last resource is this forum. You should know that you are very important for people who doesn't live in Europe or North America...
I don't have nothing to teach right now, but I have the whole world to learn from you.
I'm very thankfull to people that spent his time to give me advices, in public or (specially) in private. I'm just upset because this thread lose the plot and became one more of those "keep 'stealth' stealth blah blah blah".
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I would like to thank both of you by your kindly words. Even if you don't want, you are my friends now :-)
:)
You can't have too many friends!
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essentially, part of the venue's job is to ensure that recording isn't taking place, and if it happens (and if the promoter / mgmt wants to be a bit ridiculous about it), they can sue for breach of contract.
...and then the band never plays there again. That's a double edged sword.
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the thing that i find funny about < insert open taping topic here about mic stands, thread adapters, t-bar risers, windscreens, interconnects, troubleshooting, etc. > is do you really need help figuring out these so call tricks? seems pretty cut and dry to me
FTFY
Not everyone has the same base knowledge and experience, nor thinks quite the same way creatively or logically. Hence the value of discussion boards like TS...even for topics that seem obvious to some.
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For one, these guys probably don't get paid enough to care too much what we do. Second, concealment is concealment...
Personal experience says your speculation is totally wrong.
If this stuff was all so obvious, people wouldn't need to ask and they wouldn't need to prattle on and on in these threads.
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What...that's it? I'm just wrong? You don't care to back that up?
What are you saying? They get paid a shitload of money? What personal experience? Are you or were you a highly paid ticket taker/bouncer/security guru? Concealment is in fact not concealment? Does this sort of discussion really bother you that much? I hope my prattling on doesn't cause you to lose too much sleep
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essentially, part of the venue's job is to ensure that recording isn't taking place, and if it happens (and if the promoter / mgmt wants to be a bit ridiculous about it), they can sue for breach of contract.
...and then the band never plays there again. That's a double edged sword.
Hence the "and if the promoter / mgmt wants to be a bit ridiculous about it" bit. Again, folks, I'm not saying this is what happens all the time-- quite the contrary..... I'm not even saying that this is a fact. This is all stuff I seem to remember reading on these forums at some point. You can feel free to pick apart the faults in what I'm saying, or you can actually read what I'm writing and discover that everything that I'm uncertain about has been described as such. I was hoping to circumvent these perversions of my message with the excess of declarations that I am not certain, and that a band / promoter would have to be "ridiculous" to pursue litigation. All I said, as I'll say once more, is that I seem to recall there being legal recourse for an artist who feels that a venue is not acting to the utmost of their abilities in off-setting unauthorized recordings.
What...that's it? I'm just wrong? You don't care to back that up?
What are you saying? They get paid a shitload of money? What personal experience? Are you or were you a highly paid ticket taker/bouncer/security guru? Concealment is in fact not concealment? Does this sort of discussion really bother you that much? I hope my prattling on doesn't cause you to lose too much sleep
If I may be so presumptuous as to assume the intent of FreeLunch's post, I'm guessing that he means to imply that these security professionals, regardless of how much they are or aren't paid, are paid enough to do their job (or this would at least be safe to assume, since if they felt they weren't be paid enough to compensate their efforts, they would seek other employment). Watching for unauthorized recording certainly qualifies as part of their job, the job that they receive a wage to do.
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If we are to keep this up then a separate thread is in order.
This sounds like rank paranoia to me. It's because of what we do that some of us worry so much that event security is so 'on to us'. If we were all growing pot in the attic we'd be worried about the cops kicking in the door. If we were all stashing money in the Caymans then we'd be worrying about the tax man. If we were racecar drivers, we'd be worried about crashing. If we all lived in glass houses, we'd be worried about people thro- strike that...some of us don't seem to give a shit about that one. As it happens, we discreetly record concerts, therefore we tend to be more concerned than the average person that the event staff will discover this.
This hijack began over the discussion of stealth techniques, as if somehow discussing this will make us look conspicuous as we walk through the doors of any given venue. So what if a concert security guy reads this? Will this make you (nobody in particular) somehow look different as you hand over your ticket? Unless you accidentally hand over your preamp instead of your ticket then what's the big deal? Will this knowledge somehow turn the security guy into an ace taper-spotter? Hmmm, that guy looks like he has microphones in his shirt pocket! Is that a Microtrack in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
Barring very invasive and thorough door security, unless you do something profoundly stupid as you're entering a show then the security goons shouldn't pay any more attention to you than the next guy. Even if they've memorized every last 'stealth' post available here. The idea that these guys are so focused on our little niche hobby is hilarious to me. There are many other much more serious matters for them to concern themselves with.
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Barring very invasive and thorough door security, unless you do something profoundly stupid as you're entering a show then the security goons shouldn't pay any more attention to you than the next guy. Even if they've memorized every last 'stealth' post available here. The idea that these guys are so focused on our little niche hobby is hilarious to me. There are many other much more serious matters for them to concern themselves with.
I've realized that the more grey hair I have, the less security seems concerned about me. :-\
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My answer is that I look amazing like Simple Jack. As I approach Security, I simply drool and say "You M-M-M-M Make Me Happy."
And presto, I get in, even with a full rig and stands.
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^ LOL. :yack:
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Add me to the list of people that have never once heard of 'breach of contract' as an issue against venues for not ferreting out stealthers. Simply put, if there's a legal violation, the violation is between the taper and the band for copyright infringement...not between the band and the venue for contract violation. Having said this, the reason many venues have policies is because they don't want tapers ruining the live music experience of the rest of the patrons...but many venues also provide a complimentary service to bands to help screen for tapers since many/most venues do provide an obligatory security check.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that there's simply no law nor is there a legal precedent for a band having a legitimate claim against a venue when a patron (in stealth mode) is the copyright violator. Frankly, the whole legality of stealth taping issue is mostly a gray area. There have been many threads is ts.com history where this has been discussed. In the US, each state has specific laws about live music recording. Even with the laws explicitly stated, it's difficult to figure out what is OK and what's not.
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^ Correct. For instance, in NY, all a venue can do is ask you to check the gear. If you don't want to check it, then you can leave. Presumably if you commit other copyright violations, this is a civil matter b/w you and the band.
As to vicarious liability for a venue over someone stealthing during the show and this stealth tape somehow angering the band and causing them to sue, they might be able to say the venue was so negligent in its search for tapers that they were liable - but only if the venue first had established that it had a duty to root out stealth taping. Clearly if the band's contract said, "You will search for stealth tapers" that would strengthen the argument.
A band would also have to prove damages. Unless the recording was downloaded thousands of times, it might be hard to make that worth their while.
Quite frankly, other than unique situations like the infamous Black Crowes incident discussed on TS elsewhere, I have a hard time imagining in this day and age that when you can steal a band's entire officially released catalog in about 20 minutes from a torrent site that they really give a damn about audience tapes, especially the vast majority of low-quality stealth tapes out there.
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This sounds like rank paranoia to me.
Yes and no.
On the very few occasions that I stealth anymore, I simply don't worry about getting caught. I've taped enough shows that I'm confident that I know how to handle every situation that comes my way and I know how to react to prevent incidents. When taping, there's simply no replacing a confident attitude (and by that I certainly don't mean cocky...quite the opposite). By confident, I mean being 'situation aware'.
OTOH, I know that alot of people...probably most...get pretty worked up and nervous about stealth taping. One might consider that paranoid, but it's probably the norm, not the exception.
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With a majority of the crowd these days taking out their cell phones, video taping, and then uploading on Youtube...well, I am a small fish in a very large pond now if I audio record a show and upload it to Dime for small number of people to download. I think the paranoia of someone actually profiting from a recording these days has gone down substantially. There are exceptions though like Led Zep's '07 reunion.
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My answer is that I look amazing like Simple Jack. As I approach Security, I simply drool and say "You M-M-M-M Make Me Happy."
And presto, I get in, even with a full rig and stands.
but you NEVER go full 'tard.
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I've realized that the more grey hair I have, the less security seems concerned about me. :-\
And the more that kids in the lot hide stuff when I walk by.
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When taping, there's simply no replacing a confident attitude (and by that I certainly don't mean cocky...quite the opposite). By confident, I mean being 'situation aware'.
Agreed. There are times when my heart beats a little faster but I just keep my game face on and enjoy the show.
With a majority of the crowd these days taking out their cell phones, video taping, and then uploading on Youtube...well, I am a small fish in a very large pond
Very true...and a lot of the bigger phones look quite a bit like some of the smaller recorders.
I've realized that the more grey hair I have, the less security seems concerned about me. :-\
And the more that kids in the lot hide stuff when I walk by.
Right on both counts. :-\ My dad went grey early...looks like I'm on course to do the same. Ha! Maybe it'll help me out in the end!
Someone PM'ed me regarding this stealth discussion business and it led me to make several conclusions. Obviously, I'm not going to post a PM publicly but I will post a digest of my thoughts on the issue. Then I'm done with it. ::)
1. Some venues have really stringent security with wands, pat-downs and so on. Public discussion of stealth techniques is bad! You people talking about this are fucking it up for the rest of us! :(
Security measures such as these are more the exception rather than the rule. Besides, if any such measures as those were employed, nothing that's been discussed in this particular thread would make any difference - the taper would almost definitely be busted if he/she were limited to the techniques mentioned so far. You'd have to be far more creative than has been discussed in ANY thread I've seen to get by that level of scrutiny.
2. Some of these security guys seriously know their business. They're pros...they're big, scary and thorough...and they're out to get us tapers! Also, public discussion of stealth techniques is bad! You people talking about this are fucking it up for the rest of us! ???
Think about it. These 'security professionals' know about discreet body miking. It's part of their job to know about such things...they use them. Additionally, don't you think that professionals can figure this shit out for themselves...with or without our help? If a bunch of tapers can figure out how to sneak gear in then it stands to reason that these crack security teams can figure it out, too.
The pat-down/metal detector types of venues, generally arenas - some clubs, typically only care about tapers as much as the band and their management do. They're far more worried about fights breaking out and liquor being brought in. The smuggled liquor undercuts in-house alcohol sales and helps to fuel angry drunks, which leads to fights. Tapers don't cost a venue jack shit.
3. (again) Public discussion of stealth techniques is bad! You people talking about this are fucking it up for the rest of us! :flaming:
Try googling "stealth concert recording". Anybody can search the google. if they do then they'll probably run across this:
It's the 2nd search result.
http://curefans.com/index.php?topic=4255.0
Check out the 10th post down...user "rjl".
I spend quite a bit of time on TS myself but there are other sites that discuss taping. Stealth taping. Openly.
4. (and again...) Public discussion of stealth techniques is bad! You people talking about this are fucking it up for the rest of us! :banging head:
Security personnel have procedures that they follow. These procedures are just as likely to uncover a pipe bomb as they are a recording rig. The notion that these guys are actively patrolling TS in an effort to discover some carelessly posted super-secret jedi trick is hilarious.
I couldn't care less if stealth gets discussed openly or not. I just think it's funny when people get so bent out of shape over something so petty. If such info weren't already completely accessible to pretty much the whole world, I would readily concede the point. If it's TS policy not to discuss stealth, that's totally fine by me...although the only attention that any moderator seems to have paid to this convoluted thread was in the form of participation.
I do have one question for those who are so worried about the security goon squads keeping tabs on us. How do you keep your gear from falling out of your panties whenever you have to crotch it? :yahoo: (Just joking...sorry...I couldn't resist!)
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The notion that these guys are actively patrolling TS in an effort to discover some carelessly posted super-secret jedi trick is hilarious.
I do think some stealth tapers have the misguided idea that security personel see stopping audience taping as a priority (in my experience they're rarely even aware of the concept of audience taping) and that that their ability to evade detection is based on some special technique they have developed (rather than a combination of common sense and good luck).
However, and I'd be more than happy to be corrected on this point, I got the impression that much of the anti-stealth stuff on TS.com was motivated by open tapers not wanting to be tarred with the same brush as the stealthers and potentially losing the privileges they'd been granted.
FWIW, I've always thought that there is a very limited number of places you can usefully mount microphones when stealthing and similarly there aren't many places you can stash your gear when entering a venue.
Your mics/leads will be visible to audience members in your immediate vicinity and a decent pat down on the door will discover your gear. So success very much depends on good luck and simple common sense measures to avoid undue attention.
Of course, if some people prefer to think that they are secret agent jedi master outlaws, I wouldn't want to spoil their fun either.
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I essentially agree with everything nathan_g stated in his last post...and I really do hate to be seen as the bad guy, but just to remind that stealth techniques have a legit purpose and use on TS.com as well as a not-legitimate purpose.
Notwithstanding the points that have been made already about how ts.com is hardly being monitored by security professionals, my point is that when it comes to stealth, my own purposes and discussion aren't necessarily motivated by enabling people to screw over bands, so honestly chalk me up as someone that really doesn't care if the discussion blows someone's cover (which it won't).
If you think that the stealth discussion is messing it up for you, then perhaps it's time to accept the realities of stealth taping...
a) now and then you get caught and you simply lose the game that night,
b) you need to figure out a better way...improve your technique.
Failing these two realities, there's always a third option...
c) play by the rules and leave your recording gear at home.
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Then there is Van Morrison......
His disgust for taping and the internet is well known and documented. I have some of his rants on, yes a stealth tape, where he rants about stealth taping and the internet.
His security people (he hires his own) are well versed in taping and he has a contract with the venue that allows his own people to supplement ordinary security. In both the last two years' shows I observed between 3-10 specially uniformed security goons who went up and down the isles threatening people with cell phones and actually confinscating and throwing people out for violations of the band/venue policy against taping or filming.
Some guy next to me in 2009 got tossed and I had to stand up with wires and my Edirol dangling away while the guy got into it with the security goon. All captured on a stealth tape, by the way........
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Then there is Van Morrison......
Truly...that level of disdain for fan support is cause for me to NEVER support Van Morrison with my patronage. I like his music OK enough, but if that's how he treats his fans, then I'll NEVER and I mean NEVER give him a cent. Taping is one thing, but taking it to cell phones?!?
That's a ridiculous way to treat your fans...he needs get a life and realize that life doesn't revolve around people trying to rip him off...oh my god...for a soundbite for their cell. Maybe they'd just like to share the fact that they're seeing one of their musical heros with others...same as he'd do if he were in their position.
;D He's fat and ugly besides. ;D
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Now since this is a forum based on mutual respect and an environment of mutual growth and mentoring [...] I think what matters most is that we maintain a certain level of decorum that will ensure that this forum remains to be an environment of learning and not just some petty bickering battle over pedantic nonsense. [...] Over time you'll come to recognize that it is really difficult to truly offend or bother or anger people unless you are making a conscious effort to do so. [...] People here, no matter how much it may not feel like it some times, are really great, knowledgeable, nice, and helpful tapers who want to help you grow in the hobby.
I do have one question for those who are so worried about the security goon squads keeping tabs on us. How do you keep your gear from falling out of your panties whenever you have to crotch it? :yahoo: (Just joking...sorry...I couldn't resist!)
nice work nathan, keeping it classy with constructive arguments.
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just a thought/question in all seriousness
i understand people not wanting to talk openly about stealth techs
but what makes you think the security guy/company wanting to learn more about it wouldn't us the pm system to do so
???
if i want to learn and doing it via pm is the only way, guess what i'll do - set up and account and start pm people
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just a thought/question in all seriousness
i understand people not wanting to talk openly about stealth techs
but what makes you think the security guy/company wanting to learn more about it wouldn't us the pm system to do so
???
if i want to learn and doing it via pm is the only way, guess what i'll do - set up and account and start pm people
Right. That would be a security guy using stealth technique to learn how we stealth. LOL.
The bottom line for me is that TS.com has been going on for what...6 or 7 years now and nobody has once provided evidence that I've heard of to suggest that outsiders come on here for the sole purpose of figuring out how stealthers go about it. Even if they did, it's STEALTH. As someone already mentioned, if you do it right, the only way they'll discover you is if they implement metal detection or pat you down. Either way, nothing being discussed here is gonna make a difference in terms of discovery.
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nice work nathan, keeping it classy with constructive arguments.
:yahoo: (Just joking...sorry...I couldn't resist!)
Miss that part?
Then there is Van Morrison......
Truly...that level of disdain for fan support is cause for me to NEVER support Van Morrison with my patronage. I like his music OK enough, but if that's how he treats his fans, then I'll NEVER and I mean NEVER give him a cent. Taping is one thing, but taking it to cell phones?!?
The last time Van Morrison came close to me (Ryman, Nashville), average tickets were going for as much as $400. I love his older work but I wouldn't pay $400 to have him play a set in my living room.
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the only way they'll discover you is if they implement metal detection or pat you down. .
I don't know much about the mechanics of metal detectors, but I know a guy who would routinely use his Schoeps/nbox/m1 rig and got wanded several times without detection.
As far as not falling out of your pants, spandex running shorts. (Per Ned Flanders: Just like wearin nothin at all!)
Josh
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if you do it right, the only way they'll discover you is if they implement metal detection or pat you down.
And the metal detector would have to be set to very high sensitivity to even have chance to catch many of the mostly plastic recorders and preamps that we use. My MZ-RH1, ST-9100 and mini-mics have not been detected when wanded and if you hide them in the right place a pat down won't work either. There are certain places they are not going to pat you.....
If the metal detector is sensitive enough to go off on account of the little metal that in in my gear it will be going off all the time and cause the venue more trouble than it's worth. I think most likely the dectectors usually set so they will go off if someone comes in with a gun or knife and not if they have way less metal than that on them.
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I'm no expert on metal detectors but I believe their effectiveness (handhelds) is largely dependent on proximity to the metal object. From the sales brochure for the Garrett Super Scanner:
Ultimate sensitivity: detects medium sized pistol from 9” distance; large knife from 6”; razor blades and box cutters from 3” distance; foil-wrapped drugs and tiny jewelry from 1”
..."foil wrapped drugs"...unless you've got a pretty hefty piece of dope, that's gonna be a pretty small amount of metal. To me, this suggests that the likelihood of detection (same as with pat-downs) is probably based on how thorough the operator is.
(http://www.middlesexdetectorsales.ca/mywebs/images/Garrett2/superscannerlarge.jpg)
If you're interested, you can check out the brochure here:
http://tinyurl.com/yjx85pg
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Not to mention a bigass belt buckle to run interference
I'm no expert on metal detectors but I believe their effectiveness (handhelds) is largely dependent on proximity to the metal object. From the sales brochure for the Garrett Super Scanner:
Ultimate sensitivity: detects medium sized pistol from 9” distance; large knife from 6”; razor blades and box cutters from 3” distance; foil-wrapped drugs and tiny jewelry from 1”
..."foil wrapped drugs"...unless you've got a pretty hefty piece of dope, that's gonna be a pretty small amount of metal. To me, this suggests that the likelihood of detection (same as with pat-downs) is probably based on how thorough the operator is.
(http://www.middlesexdetectorsales.ca/mywebs/images/Garrett2/superscannerlarge.jpg)
If you're interested, you can check out the brochure here:
http://tinyurl.com/yjx85pg
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http://www.scottevest.com/
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I've realized that the more grey hair I have, the less security seems concerned about me. :-\
Sad but so true. It keeps getting easier and easier each year. :'(
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Not to mention a bigass belt buckle to run interference
I use to think like that but since going to a Beyer and a R-09 I vam go through a walk through without the metal detector red lining. Most venues will not check you until you hit a strong green or red on the sensor.
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I'm no expert on metal detectors but I believe their effectiveness (handhelds) is largely dependent on proximity to the metal object. From the sales brochure for the Garrett Super Scanner:
I bought one of these on Ebay just to test out. I have found a large percentage of people not knowing the facts. I could put a thumbtack on the floor and with the detector at the most sensitive setting it will go of at 3 feet away. So if security at a venue wants to they can detect almost every metal object going into the venue.
Put that is not feasible of course. Most places have the setting around the middle sensitivity range, then they only investigate further if they get a strong hit (High green/ red color sensor). Next time you get scanned notice how many times the sensors go of. Security will ignore most of the hits. They are looking for the strong metal content like a gun or a knife.
Funny story on when I had my scanner. I would be testing the scanner and my cats would walk by. The scanner would always go off. I came to find out when one of them passed away that they had been microchip-ed at birth but I was never given that info. So something as small as a microchip a few feet away will set of the scanner.
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Just over two years ago I sewed a pair of Y-fronts together. Nothing was getting in the way of my taping my favourite band that hadn't played together for 27 years.
Now how the hell do I put the Japanese bootleggers out of business so I can release my tape?
Merry xmas!
Humbug
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I bought one of these on Ebay just to test out. I have found a large percentage of people not knowing the facts. I could put a thumbtack on the floor and with the detector at the most sensitive setting it will go of at 3 feet away. So if security at a venue wants to they can detect almost every metal object going into the venue.
That is being determined to figure it out! Thanks for the good info!
Maybe you can also get a uniform and stand out front, waving tapers through the gates... >:D
Merry xmas!
Humbug
That gave me a laugh.
Merry Christmas, people!
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the problem with a metal detector for the entire crowd is that it would take forever
there is no way a venue can afford to wand every person and check every "hit"
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the problem with a metal detector for the entire crowd is that it would take forever
there is no way a venue can afford to wand every person and check every "hit"
I've seen it done here once before. It was terrible. HUGE line ups in -20 degree weather. They were checking everything and everyone. They opened up packs of cigarettes and confiscated everyone's cell phones!? The show started very late and everyone was cold, angry and plain fed up. In the end, the show was shortened and there was a mini riot complete with chairs being thrown around, the band stopping, the house lights coming up and the police making a bunch of arrests. Anyone could have seen that coming as security's attitude was just itching for a fight and the atmosphere was poison. Surely the extra security had something to do with the band's (Tool) contract but they took it over the top here. Since then, the venue has been, in my opinion, struggling to book decent bands and it's the citizens of the area that suffer the most.
Didn't stop me from getting the recording, though. >:D
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Seth-- classic story! Glad you made it out okay and with the tape =)
Please PM me with some details about how you made it in with the gear in spite of the crazy security, I'd be interested to hear what the gear was and what Jedi tricks were used!
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Seth-- classic story! Glad you made it out okay and with the tape =)
Please PM me with some details about how you made it in with the gear in spite of the crazy security, I'd be interested to hear what the gear was and what Jedi tricks were used!
yes that would be cool to hear
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there was a mini riot complete with chairs being thrown around, the band stopping, the house lights coming up and the police making a bunch of arrests.
That's crazy! I would have been first out the door...did you get the whole riot/chaos bit recorded?
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I won't talk about stealth, but this is the way I tape:
I have a MD recorder (which is small, maybe a little bigger than an R09HR) that I put in the right pocket of my jeans (which are big, at least 2 size bigger than me. I feel more comfortable and I have enough space to handle everything) and the battery box (no preamps yet!) is in the left pocket, connected by a wire to the recorder; obiviously I need 2 holes; then the mike cable in plugged into the battery box; mike are usually on my chest, left side. I haven't used any croakie method yet, but I'm planning to do it, if I can do by myself one.
So basically my setup goes like mike (lef side, chest) -> bb (jeans, left pocket) -> wire (over my ''jewels'', but as I'm sitting I don't notice any annoyance) -> recorder (jeans, right pocket).
Quite simple.. I usually have everything in its pocket, mikes in a pocket of my coat/sweater.. then I go the the toilette and I mount it.
As for levels: unfortunately my MD unit doesn't have backlight, so I adjust levels at the beginning of the show using a small led-light, I leave some headroom, the I set hold on the recorder (use the hold function, learned it the hard way..) and try to forget I'm recording. I check levels only is there's a noticeable increament of decibels.
My two cents..
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there was a mini riot complete with chairs being thrown around, the band stopping, the house lights coming up and the police making a bunch of arrests.
That's crazy! I would have been first out the door...did you get the whole riot/chaos bit recorded?
I was right on the floor in the middle of it all. There were some definite scary moments and at one point I was even knocked to the ground but thankfully was able to get up right away. I ended up covered in flying beer but did manage to keep my gear dry and get that whole thing on tape. I released it on some of the private torrent sites but a quick search of it just now isn't turning it up...I suppose it has run it's course and died. The date was 2007-11-29 - band was Tool in case anybody wants to hunt it down. Oh and the title is "Soundtrack To Somebody's Death" because when Maynard (lead singer) was asking people to calm down he said "I don't want to be the soundtrack to somebody's death". It was quite the site to see the whole band just sitting on the drum riser on stage chatting while the house lights were up - waiting for the whole ordeal to be done with. I can tell you that after that, they did play some more but were obviously not motivated or into it at all.
I'll PM you two that requested it with some more details soon but I'll tell you in advance there won't be any big new revelations on how I got my gear in. It was just a mixture of experience & luck.
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I was right on the floor in the middle of it all.
Crazy. Do they still employ such security tactics?
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I've gotten my 722 past wands at least 5 times now. It might have beeped once and I just showed them my belt buckle and got in. It might not have as much metal as a gun, but doesn't it have at least the same or more than a knife?
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I was right on the floor in the middle of it all.
Crazy. Do they still employ such security tactics?
Thankfully no. But understandably, they have had a lot fewer shows since then. I think the people, the cops & the venue are all still angry about it and the venue themselves seem to think that they don't need the income from concerts. It seems that big names are skipping over my town (more than usual) and heading to one of two smaller venues in neighbouring towns that are really doing security as it should be - calm, cool & collected. After all, it's about securing the venue, concert goers & artists not about bullying people because you have the power. Unfortunately all too often that is forgotten.
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the I set hold on the recorder (use the hold function, learned it the hard way..)
Doesn't that just suck!? Yeah, unfortunately I learned that the hard way too - I suspect many people have. Thankfully I only missed about 20 minutes or so and there was another taper...but still. :'( I ALWAYS use hold now.
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if people were on here to source info on stealthing methods, couldn't they also just start a thread about it and have people deliver it in PM form right into their lap since we "can't" talk about it in open forum?
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YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
You give a bad name to tapers. That is all.
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YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
You give a bad name to tapers. That is all.
There have been plenty of times where I've had the band's written consent but the venue either refused to allow me to tape or were just making my life so difficult that it was just less trouble to stealth. Just because stealth is involved doesn't mean that consent isn't.
Just a thought.
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YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
You give a bad name to tapers. That is all.
Not everyone agrees with this. Some of us, myself included, may record anyway, but choose not to distribute it. Maybe there is an argument for this (personal playback only), maybe not. Regardless, some people will still tape. That is certain...
Richard
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YOU SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
meh.
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Ok heres my 2 cents into this, I record regardless of venue or band policy, I almost never distribute to anyone its a personal reminder of the show so I dont see whats the big deal if do it ,the main reason most bands and venues dont allow it is because of the potential missuse of the recording, I am pretty sure that Im not going to go doing that
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also, everyone prefers different music, in my opinion most of the open taping bands are S@!# why should us who dont like "jam" type bands suffer from lack of live recordings ,live music something to be heard ,remembered and experienced
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I use both methods.
There have been numerous occasions where I have started off by not asking a band, stealthing them, sending them a copy, and ending up open taping them for future gigs. This definitely does not give a bad name for tapers, especially when you donate recordings for their use.
Often, the venue is too small or the wrong shape for a stand. By wrong shape, I mean much deeper than it is wide, with no central pillar to place a mic stand in front of. In this case a stand at the back of the room will sound terrible, whereas a stealth recording in the sweet spot will work well.
Sometimes it's just too much hassle to ask a venue for permission, though I have a good relationship with several London venues or sound engineers.
Discussion of stealth methods, IMO, is a valid use of space on this website.
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also, everyone prefers different music, in my opinion most of the open taping bands are S@!# why should us who dont like "jam" type bands suffer from lack of live recordings ,live music something to be heard ,remembered and experienced
Certainly it is true that the "jam" scene is overall more receptive to tapers than other types of music. But I have found that, at least among small/mid-size indie rock acts these days, they are often happy to permit taping if you are courteous enough to (1) ask in advance and (2) be courteous about any requests they may have ("we want to hear it first," etc.).
That said, I find the number one impediment to open taping the artist is also rarely the artist themself, but someone in the label/management. This is true for countless artists old and new. So is one supposed to not record simply because some person on the business side decides it's so? I recently honored a request not to tape after I asked permission from the label and got denied; I acquiesced and hope the goodwill will pay off next time they are in town. At the same time, admittedly, had I known they would do that, I would have just stealthed to begin with, especially b/c the band members themselves enthusiastically wanted me to tape.
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I feel that other then at shows of bands that are known to be accomidating to tapers ,other concert venues and staff and concert goers look at you as a bootlegger , not knowing there is a clear difference between that and a taper.So drawing little or no attention to yourself saves you the conflict of getting thrown out or whatever. ;D
venues dont know that bands may not care , This one time I was videotaping a band I know quite well and have done video before. Even at the same venue the security comes up to me and starts screaming and me and knocking my arm down telling me I cant video tape.I was taken to the other room where I was told "it creeps a lot of bands out you can go back in but stop recording" little did they know i caught em on stealth recording .The band made it up to me for the securitys shit treatment .but the band has since gone on indefinite hiatus and most likely wont be back ever again
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I SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
I give a bad name to tapers. That is all.
Fixed that for you. ::)
http://zz22.net/philzone/2007/hep-c/messages/427483/339024.html
Santana
Showplace At Portland Meadows
Portland, Oregon
1999-08-21
Source: Audio Technica 853A's (hat, FOB, DFC, 6th row)>
battery box>Denon DTR-80P@16/44.1.
Transfer: Denon DTR-80P>M/Audio Audiophile 2496>Dell Dimension 4600>
Wavelab 5.0 (normalized, fades added at beginning and end of set)>
CDwave 1.93.3 (tracked)>Flac Frontend 1.7.1 (level 8)>flac16. (shntool verified)
Recording and Transfer by Mark Burgin tapermark@yahoo.com
DO NOT SELL/BUY THIS RECORDING, ENCODE TO LOSSY FORMATS
OR CHANGE THESE FILES IN ANY WAY. Thank You
Disc One: [68:58]
01 ..Spiritual [3:11]
02 Yaleo# [7:28]
03 Bachalao Con Pan# [8:03]
04 Put Your Lights On# [5:34]
05 Smooth [4:51]
06 Day Of Celebration [5:17]
07 Victory Is One^ [6:31]
08 Maria, Maria [6:48]
09 Europa [7:39]
10 Drums [13:36]
Disc Two: [23:45]
01 Black Magic Woman/Gypsy Queen [8:36]
02 Oye Coma Va [9:07]
03 E: Corozon Espinado* [6:02]
# w/ Ozomatli
^ w/ Sergio from Mana
* w/ Mana
Carlos Santana: guitar
Tony Lindsay: vocals
Benny Rietveld: bass
Rodney Holmes: drums
Chester Thompson: keyboards
Karl Perazzo: percussion
Raul Rekow: percussion
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Cool. Mark BurginTM got consent from Carlos Santana.
::) ::) ::)
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I SHOULDN'T RECORD BANDS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT
I give a bad name to tapers. That is all.
Fixed that for you. ::)
Oh SNAP!
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Nice one!
It's good to have principles from the outset, and stick to them ;D
So anyway, about my recording from Dec 2007, how do I stop the Japanese bootleggers from getting a copy, yet still reach my target audience, many of whom have stated that they enjoy picking up the latest megabucks limited edition Tarantura release from Tokyo?
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You really don't have a way. If the band in question is the one I think it is, it's a no-win situation.
If you torrent it, the bootleg companies just download it, EQ & compress the shit out of it, then sell it. In many cases to the same fans that already downloaded the better, unaltered master.
If you just trade it out or vine it or some such thing, it'll still get to the bootleg companies. Sold to them by the very same fans you're trying to benefit.
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Anyone have a link to a hat that won't clash with my Schoeps? Actives>Nola kwon bar?
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If you torrent it, the bootleg companies just download it, EQ & compress the shit out of it, then sell it. In many cases to the same fans that already downloaded the better, unaltered master.
Not trying to be sarcastic here, but are there really "bootleg" companies still out there in any real force? And if so, why? I thought bittorrent killed what was left of that business...
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If you torrent it, the bootleg companies just download it, EQ & compress the shit out of it, then sell it. In many cases to the same fans that already downloaded the better, unaltered master.
Not trying to be sarcastic here, but are there really "bootleg" companies still out there in any real force? And if so, why? I thought bittorrent killed what was left of that business...
itook2much, thanks for your comment, that pretty much is spot on.
acidjack, sadly there is, google Tarantura and Underground Uprising. Tarantura caters to a tiny group of wealthy collectors. Each new release is fawned and pawed over on UU.
Too bad, eh? I'll get on with I do best, taping tiny / minor rock bands in the equally small clubs of London.
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Not trying to be sarcastic here, but are there really "bootleg" companies still out there in any real force? And if so, why? I thought bittorrent killed what was left of that business...
Bittorrent is a huge PIA to run... far too complex (and slow) for many people.. And a lot of ISPs block it. Plus a lot of people can't even burn a disc, and some operating systems require additional software to even do that. Can they get a dime account? Plus there is the ignorance of even knowing the shows are available for free. And with BT, the shows are typically only available for a brief perfiod of time.
So many folks think it's still a mega score to be able to spend big bucks on underground live shows that they think are otherwise not available...
I fault the record companies for not meeting demand... Most of them don't even seem to police ebay.