Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: stevetoney on June 26, 2012, 08:57:48 AM
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At one point in my ts.com 'career' stealth discussion bothered me. It doesn't anymore. There are a few that continue to carry the banner.
Not trying to change anyone's mind here, but just curious where the general ts.com population stands on the subject nowadays.
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The cat was out of the bag long ago. In five minutes anyone with google can find all they need to know.
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The cat was out of the bag long ago. In five minutes anyone with google can find all they need to know.
this. Anyone who is mildly creative and goal oriented can figure it out on their own.
Now, I don't see much need in making it easier to find that info, but I won't go out of my way to scrub it out. Really, the disguise element is the only remaining question that info is sparse on.
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The cat was out of the bag long ago. In five minutes anyone with google can find all they need to know.
I think having a separate, and yet open, discussion forum would be useful in a couple of ways: 1. educate new tapers, 2. make a distinction b/w "true" >:D (King Crimson) and lo-pro >:D (Radiohead). The first point is obvious. The second point, we could encourage conversation geared towards bands that don't mind being taped, but don't have an open policy (again Radiohead)...
YMMV...
Terry
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I voted for "I'd prefer it not be.."
I don't stealth much and I agree that the "cat is out of the bag" / "if you're not an idiot you can probably figure it out". BUT, I think there are valid reasons to keep it discrete and mostly over PM:
1. There are hardcore stealthers out there whose methods are a lot more advanced than the normal stuff we talk about doing (see, e.g., the crazy thread about the dude with the custom wig...). I'd hate to see their techniques discussed in any detail. Also, stuff like the "brand of hat" while maybe out of the bag and all, certainly should be repeated less often than it is.
2. People who record openly and with permission want to keep a clear distinction between the two types of taping. Having lots of open stealth discussion might wrongly give the impression that everyone here condones that activity or that that is all "taping" is about, which it isn't. I personally have no problem with stealthing as long as it's non-commercial and there is at least some valid reason to do it (artists' lame management, venue rule, etc.). But others feel more strongly about it, and I respect that.
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I have no hand in the race, don't stealth and am new to the board so not sure what the old guard thinks of my opinion, but I will just say that when I googled "stealth recording," "stealth recording techniques," "bootleg recording," "bootleg recording techniques," TS didn't get any hits on my front page, even though google filters towards individual's search preferences and I'm on TS a lot. Seems like venues/security would have to know TS prior and browse it purposefully than just stumbling on it through a google search.
That said, and since I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other, I'm for majority opinion. Keep it active but on the down low.
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Seems like venues/security would have to know TS prior and browse it purposefully than just stumbling on it through a google search.
Them dudes only have to find ts.com once........they'll be back, telling their "friends"... >:(
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Seems like venues/security would have to know TS prior and browse it purposefully than just stumbling on it through a google search.
Them dudes only have to find ts.com once........they'll be back, telling their "friends"... >:(
Except in spite of a stealthers paranoia, in the US, IMHO there's really no universal conspiracy out there against stealth tapers. The only IMO thing that's universal is that they're against people sneaking their own booze into the venue.
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The cat is not out of the bag.
Why make a forum available that quickly becomes a detailed FAQ for someone who wants to put a stop to the practice? Unless the goal is to make the techniques so well known that they are no longer effective.
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I don't see much purpose of discussing it beyond bragging. If you have an awesome technique, good for you. Hope you get good results. If you can't resist tooting your own horn, I think it is a good idea to use code such as the >:D symbol to keep the discussion off of Google. I don't know why the topic has to come up every so often- what has changed? And how about a "miscategorized"?
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Devils advocate to most of the comments being made here. If you use good stealth technique, even if it's discussed here, nobody at the venue should know you're taping so what's the big deal if it's discussed? Even if they suspect you're taping, you can't be strip searched, so...
Personally, I don't think not discussing it lessons the fact that people are using ts.com to figure out how to stealth. Either you're doing it or you're not...pretending you're not doesn't mean you're not. It also doesn't mean that you're fooling anyone about it just because you don't talk about it overtly. It only takes someone slightly over idiot level to figure out that >:D is code for the word 'stealth'.
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Devils advocate to most of the comments being made here. If you use good stealth technique, even if it's discussed here, nobody at the venue should know you're taping so what's the big deal if it's discussed? Even if they suspect you're taping, you can't be strip searched, so...
Personally, I don't think not discussing it lessons the fact that people are using ts.com to figure out how to stealth. Either you're doing it or you're not...pretending you're not doesn't mean you're not. It also doesn't mean that you're fooling anyone about it just because you don't talk about it overtly. It only takes someone slightly over idiot level to figure out that >:D is code for the word 'stealth'.
The only constant is that you, someone who I recall does not do it, continues to want to push the subject as a topic of discussion on the site. You have no skin in the game.
If this stuff is all so obvious, we don't need to keep bringing it up, right?
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>:D is code for the word 'stealth'.
Wha?!
There go the keys to the kingdom!
The status quo on this here seems relatively well balanced, everyone plays their roll and the Hoff shows up, appropriately, when the line gets crossed.
A few applicable maxims?
Low hanging fruit gets picked first.
Don't piss upstream from the camp kitchen.
Seek and ye shall find.
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I'd prefer stealth conversation to be conducted stealthily, but I don't think it matters much
You really should have left off everything after the comma or included the following option:
I'd prefer stealth conversation to be conducted stealthily, and I think it matters a great deal.
If you want a valid poll you need to quit injecting your opinion in the questions. That is one of my pet peeves about the professional pollsters questions, they skew the results by adding qualifications to their questions which will inevitably sway the results they get towards the answers the sponsors of the polls want.
I did vote - how aint' nobody's business but my own.
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You have no skin in the game.
Ahem...look at my signature line. ::)
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Devils advocate to most of the comments being made here. If you use good stealth technique, even if it's discussed here, nobody at the venue should know you're taping so what's the big deal if it's discussed? Even if they suspect you're taping, you can't be strip searched, so...
I don't see a reason to make it easier for security by giving clues as to what to look for regardless of whether thats gear related or other things. There are some dumb people on this planet, it's beneficial for some of those people to stay that way...
A few applicable maxims?
Low hanging fruit gets picked first.
Don't piss upstream from the camp kitchen.
Seek and ye shall find.
Exactly, if someone wants to become a good stealth taper, I can pass along some guiding points that are really good ideas without divulging techniques. If someone can tell you have gear while you're standing in your living room, then assume security could spot you in the venue if they were inclined to look. Second, get a mentor.
The short of it is, if people aren't creative, they really aren't cut out for this... The best stealth tapers are people who are super creative.
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I'd prefer stealth conversation to be conducted stealthily, but I don't think it matters much
If you want a valid poll you need to quit injecting your opinion in the questions. That is one of my pet peeves about the professional pollsters questions, they skew the results by adding qualifications to their questions which will inevitably sway the results they get towards the answers the sponsors of the polls want.
It was just a fun question based on curiousity...it's not like I'm polling for Obama for the purpose of taking over the universe. ;) I don't give a carp one way or the other if people talk about it, although I do get tired of people getting preachy about it.
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I don't think most venues care if you stealth (at least the venues I go to).
Security only cares about something that might cost the venue money or getting them into trouble, which would include: bringing your own booze into the venue, drugs, getting in a fight...
You could argue that they could get into trouble with a band if the contract states "no taping" and the venue security is responsible for looking out for such activity...but even then I think it's a pretty low priority for the venue.
The only thing that really worries me is the "power trip" security dude.
All that being said...it's not rocket science. I don't do anything that someone with an IQ over about 80 couldn't figure out on their own. Be smart, and don't worry about what is said here. We are a low priority.
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I stealth quite a bit, but run open a lot as well. I don't think there should be open discussions on
stealthing here. I don't mind general questions that can be answered by PM. Most smart folks that
are serious about taping will learn what they need to know.
Almost all my mentoring was done by other tapers at shows, from how to deal with security to where
to sit/stand in the venue to what kind of config was needed to get the best recording. This is something
handled better passing down by word of mouth, then on an internet forum discussion.
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I don't mind general questions that can be answered by PM. Most smart folks that
are serious about taping will learn what they need to know.
Almost all my mentoring was done by other tapers at shows, from how to deal with security to where
to sit/stand in the venue to what kind of config was needed to get the best recording. This is something
handled better passing down by word of mouth, then on an internet forum discussion.
^ This.
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It was just a fun question based on curiousity...it's not like I'm polling for Obama for the purpose of taking over the universe. ;) I don't give a carp one way or the other if people talk about it, although I do get tired of people getting preachy about it.
oh bullshit
You obviously do care and do want to talk about it openly or you would not insert your comments into the discussion. If you didn't care , but were merely curious, you would have posted the poll and just watched the results, not take part in the discussion that ensues. The impartial observer you aren't.
Now that that's out of the way, why do you think it should be discussed here on ts?
Another observation/question: do you not see your poll as a form of proselytizing for allowing discussion here on ts?
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Devils advocate to most of the comments being made here. If you use good stealth technique, even if it's discussed here, nobody at the venue should know you're taping so what's the big deal if it's discussed? Even if they suspect you're taping, you can't be strip searched, so...
I don't see a reason to make it easier for security by giving clues as to what to look for regardless of whether thats gear related or other things. There are some dumb people on this planet, it's beneficial for some of those people to stay that way...
And these are the ones who have to ask about stealth. I don't mind it being discussed, but I do question the need for it being discussed at all. If you can tie your shoes and count past ten without taking them off you should be able to figure it out. That said, I have posted in >:D threads before. Sometimes just to rile up the tinfoil hats that think that every bouncer in the world will be instantly wise to some dude with mics in his _____ if someone mentions >:D on a geeked-out tapers' forum. Or to get some curmudgeon from CA who listens to obscure Hawaiian music to post gifs of the Hoff.
In other words, I think it's silly to discuss it and I think it's silly to bitch about it being discussed. This logic may implode at any moment.
When I >:D, this is my method: I hide my equipment where no one can see it. Then I record the show. There, all my secrets are out.
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It was just a fun question based on curiousity...it's not like I'm polling for Obama for the purpose of taking over the universe. ;) I don't give a carp one way or the other if people talk about it, although I do get tired of people getting preachy about it.
oh bullshit
You obviously do care and do want to talk about it openly or you would not insert your comments into the discussion. If you didn't care , but were merely curious, you would have posted the poll and just watched the results, not take part in the discussion that ensues. The impartial observer you aren't.
Whatever. Apparently you think I have an agenda. I don't. But being curious where the majority stands on this doesn't mean I can't comment on my own poll?!?
Again whatever. I didn't mean to strike a chord with the poll, but I guess I did with a couple of you. It wasn't intended. If you don't believe that, oh well.
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Most of the comments are about how stealth is common sense. One observation I have is that it seems like most of the questions being asked about stealth are from noobs that just kinda want to validate.
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Devils advocate to most of the comments being made here. If you use good stealth technique, even if it's discussed here, nobody at the venue should know you're taping so what's the big deal if it's discussed? Even if they suspect you're taping, you can't be strip searched, so...
I don't see a reason to make it easier for security by giving clues as to what to look for regardless of whether thats gear related or other things. There are some dumb people on this planet, it's beneficial for some of those people to stay that way...
A few applicable maxims?
Low hanging fruit gets picked first.
Don't piss upstream from the camp kitchen.
Seek and ye shall find.
Exactly, if someone wants to become a good stealth taper, I can pass along some guiding points that are really good ideas without divulging techniques. If someone can tell you have gear while you're standing in your living room, then assume security could spot you in the venue if they were inclined to look. Second, get a mentor.
The short of it is, if people aren't creative, they really aren't cut out for this... The best stealth tapers are people who are super creative.
Both points true. Its just hard to do both stealth and non stealth as same venues/cities as security may get to know you.
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Both points true. Its just hard to do both stealth and non stealth as same venues/cities as security may get to know you.
I almost suggested "learning" elsewhere, sort of don't poo where you sleep sort of thing.
To your original point, I know some folks who do both at certain venues, and I know some venues where I did not do both and kept everything 007 because being associated with the activity marked me (small venues, memorable patrons, etc). It's a situational awareness and risk assessment exercise. I think there are more of the former (where you can run open and then still run covert), but there are definately reasons to avoid it and thats different for each town and each person.
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These posts bear repeating, so here they are again, QFT.
I stealth quite a bit, but run open a lot as well. I don't think there should be open discussions on
stealthing here. I don't mind general questions that can be answered by PM. Most smart folks that
are serious about taping will learn what they need to know.
Almost all my mentoring was done by other tapers at shows, from how to deal with security to where
to sit/stand in the venue to what kind of config was needed to get the best recording. This is something
handled better passing down by word of mouth, then on an internet forum discussion.
I know some folks who do both at certain venues, and I know some venues where I did not do both and kept everything 007 because being associated with the activity marked me (small venues, memorable patrons, etc). It's a situational awareness and risk assessment exercise. I think there are more of the former (where you can run open and then still run covert), but there are definately reasons to avoid it and thats different for each town and each person.
As for technique, it boils down to doing whatever you want, while following the hoppedup rule:
When I >:D, this is my method: I hide my equipment where no one can see it. Then I record the show. There, all my secrets are out.
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This is for those that find talking stealth to be acceptable,.....
Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.
Frank Zappa
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just helping get this to page 3...
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just helping get this to page 3...
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Oh my!
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When I >:D, this is my method: I hide my equipment where no one can see it. Then I record the show. There, all my secrets are out.
Fuckin' hoppedup.....I knew you couldn't keep our secret for long....a pox on you and the rest of the crew you owe a beer to....
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Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.
Frank Zappa
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b45/cc513/redflash.gif)(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b45/cc513/redflash.gif)
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/576/recursive_hasselhoff_I_did_it_for_the_lolz_Part_4-s220x340-157341.gif)(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/576/recursive_hasselhoff_I_did_it_for_the_lolz_Part_4-s220x340-157341.gif)(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/576/recursive_hasselhoff_I_did_it_for_the_lolz_Part_4-s220x340-157341.gif)
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Welcome to this thread :)
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THISISMYPLACEHOLDERFORMOREHASSELHOFF.
:spin:
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THISISMYPLACEHOLDERFORMOREHASSELHOFF.
:spin:
:lol:
Look at the bright side; there are worse things that could be posted to nuke the thread. :o
I never learned morse code, figured if I got to a point where I needed it, well, it was a nice life.
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Its strange to me that so many people feel it crosses the line to even discuss whether or not stealth talk is ok, or feel a need to haselhoff the thread. I didn't see it as the same thing as actually engaging in discussions about stealth techniques and such.
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I think it's a bit silly to think that 'the man' would need to read TS forum posts to figure out how we do what we do. Yes, the cat is out of the bag. Has been for years.
Theater people discuss body miking techniques quite openly...and nobody Hoff's their threads over it...
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/sound-music-intercom/4517-where-hide-body-mics.html
Looks like the folks at Countryman are also trying to ruin the stealth game as well...they even have photos!
http://www.countryman.com/download/B2D%20Lavalier%20datasheet.pdf
If that's not enough to make all your hair fall out, this guy has a video...showing the whole damned world how to mic up!!
http://blip.tv/realitycrew/hiding-lavalier-mics-sample-1-1089261
Even those bastards at Google are trying to ruin it for us! Try googling "HIDING A LAV MIC"!!! :o
Youtube's "HIDING A LAV MIC" search is revealing as well.
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for the dipshits, ^^
Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.
Frank Zappa
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for the dipshits, ^^
You are such a cruel king, doing this to your subjects.
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for the dipshits, ^^
You are such a cruel king, doing this to your subjects.
It was about time..... >:D
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I wonder if there is a hoff in rainbow
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The fact of the matter is as much as some want to impose their personal position on us all, there is no consensus on this.
I'm apathetic; I really don't care one way or the other.11 (18%)
No, it's OK to discuss stealth taping on ts.com. 11 (18%)
Yes, stealth discussion should not be conducted publicly on ts.com. 14 (23%)
I'd prefer stealth conversation to be conducted stealthily, but I don't think it matters much 21 (34.4%)
I hate stealth taping/discussion altogether and wish there was a way for ts.com to ban it completely 4 (6.6%)
30% opposed to any discussion
35% prefer only stealthy stealth discussion but don't think it really matters
35% don't care or think it is okay
It seems like this particular topic of whether there should be stealth discussion is pretty valid. Trying to derail it with Hoff bombs is one approach. Or, just discussing it might be okay too.
Dude, you ever consider a career in politics?
18% Sheep that have no opinion
18% No, OK to discuss
64% (23 + 34.4 + 6.6) Yes, no steath discussion
Let's be clear next time.
edit --- clarity in color
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Oh, math comprehension was not taught in your school....I get it.
Sorry ::)
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[snip] some want to impose their personal position on us all [snip]
It seems like this particular topic of whether there should be stealth discussion is pretty valid. Trying to derail it with Hoff bombs is one approach. Or, just discussing it might be okay too.
Seems like we are getting both here, everybody wins.
The Hoff appearances are harmelss, pretty funny and effective, really. One of the few seemingly effective derailers to those imposing their open discussion position agenda on us all. The rainbow reigns within. ;)
Other forums and company fliers discussing body mic'ing theater actors? that's quite a stretch. Sure the info is out there if you dig a bit and make logical connections. Yet that in itself is enough of a barrier to deter the casual. Which is as it should be. Why lay things out obviously here like waiving an open container at the passing patrol car? The blantant idiot gets caught. Should we collectively act as blatant idiots offering up low hanging fruit to all passers by.
The term steath is used for for a reason, and to think that reason shouldn't apply here as well as 'out there' is silly and contradictory.
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The fact of the matter is as much as some want to impose their personal position on us all, there is no consensus on this.
But what percentage of respondents are serious practitioners of the discipline, out there getting it done on a regular basis?
Hence my comment that some people advocating for disclosure have no skin in the game.
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http://www.onlineconversion.com/morse_code.htm (http://www.onlineconversion.com/morse_code.htm) For the Morse code impaired...;)
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Same thread, different year. My answer is mostly the same.
Ninety-nine percent of the "keep stealth stealth" comments on this forum are nothing more than a regurgitation of something which the authors know absolutely nothing about. That mantra didn't even exist, save for basic common sense, here or anywhere else (like the Oade forum) until one person ruined it for us all. That person was 'in deep' and not your average stealth taper. They made some poor decisions about the information they choose to share and provided a valuable lesson for us all about what not to do.
For the average joe taper, the actual risk in discussing basic techniques on this forum is greatly exaggerated.
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2. People who record openly and with permission want to keep a clear distinction between the two types of taping. Having lots of open stealth discussion might wrongly give the impression that everyone here condones that activity or that that is all "taping" is about, which it isn't.
this
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Consensus isn't really applicable, since consensus really applies to decision-making, and we're not a decision-making body. There's no decision to make, simply perspectives to share. And in that sense, I agree with capnhook's view. I think the overall issue and the responses to the poll ultimately boil down to: should we or should we not discuss stealth activity openly on TS? When boiled down in this way, the perspective of poll respondents becomes quite clear: the vast majority think we should not discuss stealth openly -- whether thoughts about it are absolute (ban all stealth talk), strong (should not happen publicly), or moderate (prefer it doesn't happen publicly). As of this posting:
65.0% do not think stealth should be discussed openly
17.5% think it's okay to discuss stealth openly
We likely can debate the relative risk to no end, and never come to any sort of agreement or common view. But an individual or collective view on relative risk is beside the point, as one's view of relative risk doesn't necessarily coincide with one's perspective on whether or not we should discuss stealth openly. For example, my view: I think the risk from openly discussing stealth is quite low, but we still ought not discuss it openly.
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I think it's OK to discuss things like Omnis vs directional mics, the sonic differences between body mounted vs stand mounted mics.
I don't think we should discuss the actual stealth part, like where to hide gear, etc.
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The fact of the matter is as much as some want to impose their personal position on us all, there is no consensus on this.
But what percentage of respondents are serious practitioners of the discipline, out there getting it done on a regular basis?
Hence my comment that some people advocating for disclosure have no skin in the game.
This is an open discussion about whether or not people think it's OK to talk about stealth on ts.com. Skin in the game is irrelevant to that discussion.
Obviously, we can conclude from this poll that most people lean on the 'no' side by about 2/3 to 3/4 of the total. I'm not sure about others, but I'll use that knowledge in the future. Since the majority of people say no, I respect that and I'll be alot more likely to hit 'delete' instead of hitting 'send' on any post that discusses stealth technique.
EDIT: Cyber crossing with Brian's post. Excellent post Brian...in some respects similar to the point I've made above.
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I think it's OK to discuss things like Omnis vs directional mics, the sonic differences between body mounted vs stand mounted mics.
I don't think we should discuss the actual stealth part, like where to hide gear, etc.
I don't think anyone reasonable can object to discussions of what mics to use for mounting to your body (which isn't necessarily stealthing) or even placement (other than something dumb like, "Stand 2ft to the right of the curtain in Venue X - that's the SECRET STEALTHING SPOT"
To me 'stealth discussion' means what it means to you - hiding stuff, basically. I think people should feel free to offer thoughts on what mics are good for stealthing, why/why not, etc.
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uhmmm,.... talking about mounting to the body is talking about 5†3@7†h.
refers back to the Zappa quote.
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Oh, math comprehension was not taught in your school....I get it.
Sorry ::)
Boohoo, you are going to make me cry.
The ultimate in internet discussion... the ad hominem argument. ::)
vanark, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
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I only stealth. Audio rig + video rig.
Only way to do this is to be creative. Customize.
If you're not creative, you can't be a good stealth taper.
There's no need to discuss things openly.
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Moke Zappa wasn't too keen on censorship.
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uhmmm,.... talking about mounting to the body is talking about 5†3@7†h.
refers back to the Zappa quote.
My post actually said:
"what mics to use for mounting to your body (which isn't necessarily stealthing)"
For example:
Q: What mics are good for mounting to my body/can be self-worn?
A: Countryman B3, DPA 4061, Church Audio blah blah blah...
That's not talking about stealth.
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Oh, math comprehension was not taught in your school....I get it.
Sorry ::)
Boohoo, you are going to make me cry.
The ultimate in internet discussion... the ad hominem argument. ::)
vanark, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
I'm stupid. Okay. Got it. You're winning me over with your irrefutable logic.
If you ain't right, you better get right!
I didn't say it, you did.
It's right there, next to your avatar on the left.
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Moke Zappa wasn't too keen on censorship.
And I wasn't too keen on his stance. When he started becoming a political spokesman, and quit playing the guitar, and telling me how to live my life, I quit buying his records, quit attending his concerts, and completely lost interest in his rhetoric. Then he started into that avant-garde "classical" crap, and that was the final nail in the sealing off of any further interest in Zappa.
I'd been a hardcore fan of his since around 1970, when I started buying and collecting his records. I have something like 35 vinyl releases of his, and seen him live probably a dozen times. There isn't very much about him that I didn't absorb, up to that point.
I appreciate your attempt at informing me of this though.
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uhmmm,.... talking about mounting to the body is talking about 5†3@7†h.
refers back to the Zappa quote.
My post actually said:
"what mics to use for mounting to your body (which isn't necessarily stealthing)"
For example:
Q: What mics are good for mounting to my body/can be self-worn?
A: Countryman B3, DPA 4061, Church Audio blah blah blah...
That's not talking about stealth.
But, per typical reaction around here, for a decade, as soon as someone starts talking about the gear, technique always follows, every friggin time, without fail. Its best just left alone, and not discussed.
Small is small - let the creative mind run with that, without spoon feeding them all the technique details; without mentioning anything about stealth; without mentioning how to get gear in, or what to do with it. Let people figure that stuff out in the old school way. There is nothing so sacred about a rock concert that doesn't get well recorded (or recorded at all), not a friggin thing - BFD if a loud PA rendition of music goes unrecorded, the earth will still spin, and the sun will rise the next morning.
Sorry, AJ, my post wasn't directed at you, so much as it was a generalized encapsulation of what I just expressed.
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If you ain't right, you better get right!
I didn't say it, you did.
It's right there, next to your avatar on the left.
And you can't follow directions? ;) :-*
ETA: World Boogie is coming!
http://fackyouk.blogspot.com/2009/08/world-boogie-is-coming.html
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Before I read a word of this, stealth discussion should go on but specific techniques shouldn't.
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for the dipshits, ^^
So I'm a dipshit...yawn. I realize stealth discussion is kind of the third rail around here but really? Such hostility for engaging in a discussion about having a discussion?? You're gonna give people a seizure with that Hoff gif...although I can't help but chuckle when it pops up...
Other forums and company fliers discussing body mic'ing theater actors? that's quite a stretch.
Respectfully, I disagree. If a stage actor or even the local weatherman ditched the bodypack transmitter, plugged in a M10, went to a show and sat near the stacks...they could get away with a nice pull. They use largely the same kit many of us do...they just apply it differently. The theater folks actually have some pretty useful info regarding mounting lav mics in less than obvious ways. I voted 'I'm apathetic...' - I see no harm in pointing newcomers in the right direction. TS doesn't have to become 'Stealth University' to accommodate the noobs but to prohibit outright the dissemination of constructive information is...well...pointless. Just my .02. I'm not trying to change the status quo here.
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The Hoff appearances are harmelss, pretty funny and effective, really.
Unless you suffer from epileptic seizures and/or the sight of Hasselhoff in a banana hammock makes you vomit uncontrollably.
Out of respect for those that don't want stealth discussed, I selected the conduct stealthy stealth discussion, not none at all. To me this means post your question and expect info via PM or email. Or just google and read. The info is out there and you need to adjust for your own style/comfort/situation.
This is pretty much the way I've looked at it, personally. I also don't stealth all that much but the situations I've been in don't really call for uber tactics. Regardless, you sure as shit ain't getting any of my Jedi mind control techniques out of me. ;D
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I voted "apathy", I don't care one way or the other...
But shouldn't this discussion be about whether or not we somehow condone the taping of bands that don't allow it??? Or are we assuming that a discussion of >:D automatically means taping those bands???
There are more than a few bands that allow, or are apathetic to, lo-pro taping. Some have a wide taping/trading network (U2 and Radiohead are good examples). I think discussing lo-pro options is appropriate when discussing these types of bands, while open discussions of taping the next Krim show is painting a target on us... I have no real issues with the discussion of technique, but I think the discussion of said practice relative to taping some bands should be taboo...
The fact that we may talk about guns, knives, and bombs doesn't mean we intend to shoot, stab or explode people...
YMMV...
Terry
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While we are at it lets talk about the best way to cheat on your taxes. There are 42,000 members here and statistically there must be hundreds that have cheated before. How did you do it? I'm certain that I'd get caught the first time I attempt this so I don't mess around with the IRS but I'd love to hear about your techniques. Please tell what you know.
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my $0.02:
there are two big elements to taping that come into play here, that i think of right away & help influence my vote: (i like the education as to why folks feel different ways regarding >:D…)
*creativity- to be a good recordist and taper, one must be somewhat creative and adaptive to unforeseen situations. i don't care what realm of taping your in-- we've all been there. and these situations make us more creative tapers. creative gear, makes us even better tapers(...sometimes).
*sociality- at open taping, live, music events, tapers come together-- by hook or by crook, because of taper sections, board locations, balcony locations, stack taping, yo mamas sweet spot, lip taping… or --because you're from out of town and have no idea where to set up, so you seek the advice of that other person, setting up mics, over there… (my first visit to gamh in sanfran comes to mind, for me)
about gear?:
i like the idea of openly talking on ts about the gear one would use to do it. its out there. folks need a good source of quality & diverse technical info… nothing to be quiet about in that regard.
not everyone is here to get info on taping live music… but might be into recording other audio--- outdoor, night, sounds at a secluded cabin--- an interview--- theater & stage production--- a school project--- anything. why not talk openly about products on the market?
about how?:
yeah, creativity comes into play. isn't that part of the satisfaction of a quality >:D pull??? & if you really need advice, ask someone- but maybe that conversation doesn't need to be held in a public forum. ask for help through pm, if you need " >:D advice for dummies 101". even better, ask a fellow, local taper and do some networking… there's plenty of folks on this board i recognize from all over the country from open taping… i'd ask them- or the person open taping next to you at the next show. some of the folks ive taped next to on this board, i assume are pretty nice, and would be happy to verbally talk about it, if they feel comfortable with you.
(that same " >:D advice for dummies 101" is on google--- google that sh!t, yo.)
i understand noob's looking for education to satisfy their curious minds and test the waters… some of those seeds may become something big in an area of the world where there is great music being- but missed on tape. i believe " >:D advice for dummies 101"- simple stuff, can be openly discussed & benifit the over all live music scene, in only positive ways. if someone is "in deep" with tons of knowledge they know how much to say & not say. if you've been there, you know what needs protection.
not all >:D taping is bad(i dont think any of it is "bad")... i recently >:D taped a show because the venue, who encourages taping, went with the headliners "no taping policy"- but the opening band was cool with open taping.... so i >:D taped the opening band, with absolutly no risk involved. the opening band i was taping was cool with it & so was the venue.... so, no harm & no foul.
id highly recommend for a taper who wants to try out >:D taping to experiment at a "open taping" bands show... it helps in the education/experimentation process w/ no risk. (..."& if you do it right, no one will know"...)
i didn't vote- because my vote would be:
"yes, its ok to discuss stealth taping on ts. com, in a conservative/discrete manner"
…but thats about educating the forum users & i think those "in deep" are onboard the same ship.
of course someone has to say it, "the #1 rule of >:D club, is that you never talk about >:D club"
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wow this topic is like mixing politics and religion! is breaking the propor taper ediquett code immoral? 1st of all, understand ive been drinking since 1 am . nuff said. its like the war on drugs, you'lle never stop bootlegging of anti taping gigs. i've done it myself when i was younger with an elaborate rig. (crutches that conerted to a mic stand) id hobble in with gear bandaged to my leg, even got special treatment several times! i wont stealth anymore, if i cant b out of the closet, i dont wanna go to the party. debate remains, you dont wanna jeapordise the taping sub culture,but there are lots o' bands out there that are cool or even encourage taping against the stern wishes of their record label n contract. these I say go forth! what about big production gigs u paid 200 clams 4 a ticket? I dunno. yer call. then u have masters of musical talent like frank zappa, who was brutally opposed to taping,but on the other hand it would be a crime if all his live gigs diddnt get arcchived even with a sonically crappy recording. I dont have the answer or want it. I have shared bootlegs, but I guess the golden rule is NEVER profit from the music you've had the honor n privelege of hearing. - spank, still drunk.
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wow this topic is like mixing politics and religion! is breaking the propor taper ediquett code immoral? 1st of all, understand ive been drinking since 1 am . nuff said. its like the war on drugs, you'lle never stop bootlegging of anti taping gigs. i've done it myself when i was younger with an elaborate rig. (crutches that conerted to a mic stand) id hobble in with gear bandaged to my leg, even got special treatment several times! i wont stealth anymore, if i cant b out of the closet, i dont wanna go to the party. debate remains, you dont wanna jeapordise the taping sub culture,but there are lots o' bands out there that are cool or even encourage taping against the stern wishes of their record label n contract. these I say go forth! what about big production gigs u paid 200 clams 4 a ticket? I dunno. yer call. then u have masters of musical talent like frank zappa, who was brutally opposed to taping,but on the other hand it would be a crime if all his live gigs diddnt get arcchived even with a sonically crappy recording. I dont have the answer or want it. I have shared bootlegs, but I guess the golden rule is NEVER profit from the music you've had the honor n privelege of hearing. - spank, still drunk.
Spankee02, please lay off the "bootleg" term, unless whut yur drinkin' is bootleg liquor. :laugh: ;D
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uhmmm,.... talking about mounting to the body is talking about 5†3@7†h.
refers back to the Zappa quote.
My post actually said:
"what mics to use for mounting to your body (which isn't necessarily stealthing)"
For example:
Q: What mics are good for mounting to my body/can be self-worn?
A: Countryman B3, DPA 4061, Church Audio blah blah blah...
That's not talking about stealth.
But, per typical reaction around here, for a decade, as soon as someone starts talking about the gear, technique always follows, every friggin time, without fail. Its best just left alone, and not discussed.
Small is small - let the creative mind run with that, without spoon feeding them all the technique details; without mentioning anything about stealth; without mentioning how to get gear in, or what to do with it. Let people figure that stuff out in the old school way. There is nothing so sacred about a rock concert that doesn't get well recorded (or recorded at all), not a friggin thing - BFD if a loud PA rendition of music goes unrecorded, the earth will still spin, and the sun will rise the next morning.
Sorry, AJ, my post wasn't directed at you, so much as it was a generalized encapsulation of what I just expressed.
OK cool, I think we are in general agreement.
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I have stealth taped for years, and had to learn from trial and error. (More errors than I want to think about). I realize that a lot of people here don't like the discussion of stealth techniques and I'm cool with that. If anyone needs exact info then I think PMs should be the vehicle of choice.
I agree that it helps to be creative and think outside the box.
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I don't mind either way, but what I always found weird when I was wholly new to taping was being told to PM someone about stealth, when I had absolutely no idea who to PM. I imagine that any new members here, that are looking to stealth, that see posts that boil down to 'PM somebody' and wonder who it is they're supposed to be messaging. Random members? The person who just told them to shut up? Perhaps a list of people that are comfortable speaking about stealthing and sharing their techniques can be compiled and made a sticky somewhere, but considering the overall vibe coming from a lot of you here, I don't suppose that would happen.
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Frig it, I've made it known in my signature should anyone come across any of my posts whilst wondering what to do.
Edit2-
I'd like to clarify that I understand this stuff isn't difficult to figure out, and the wealth of information here******* on gear and venues is plenty enough, but still...
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Frig it, I've made it known in my signature should anyone come across any of my posts whilst wondering what to do.
This will likely help someone out. I think the real problem is with the eager newbs that want instant gratification and information, and don't read/do research before posting. I lurked this forum ~mo. before I joined. It was quickly obvious who the >:D artists are, and who amongst them would be approachable if I wanted to ask. It was also obvious that the TS regulars don't openly discuss this topic unless pressed. We have no real choice when a newb comes along, respond to their post (Hoff 'em if needed), PM the good bits if they're serious, and hope they stick around and end up contributing to the community.
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Patience, Ed Gruberman. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Here's a fairly obvious tip: practice at home, in the dark. Even the PM thing is somewhat suspicious from someone with all of 6 posts. How do we know you are a taper and not a bouncer? And seriously, his thread is filled with people who have indicated their area of expertise. Pick somebody who is saying we should be able to post openly. That's not me, BTW.
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In the cases of the people I've talked to stealthing about, it's already clear that they're taping because they've already shared some of their sources and are looking for extra tips. Most of what I say boils down to picking a technique and working with it to perfect it, fixing things that make you uncomfortable. If they mention any methods they use or are curious about I'll touch on them, but I don't get very detailed, nor do I provide step by step instructions. Just some pointers.
If somebody PM'd me without any posts and/or had no sources to show, I would be hesitant to provide any help.
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I voted yes, 'cause it's fun to see moke lose his mind about it ;D
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I voted yes, 'cause it's fun to see moke lose his mind about it ;D
Don't mess with The Hoff.
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I could care less if it is talked about or not, I just don't think its a issue like it was before digital recorders and cell phones, I don't know if i am complacent or not but I don't even get nervous getting into venues anymore and I have never felt like security was looking for a taper, hell I have stood 3 feet away from security guys many times and still checked a level now and again. Its neither here nor there in IMO. That being said, specific technics probably belong in a pm but really how serious is a guy making 8-10 bucks an hour for a 4-6 hour gig going to take his job to the point that he scours the internet to get a tip just to bust a guy only to tell the guy to put his rig away or take it to the car....really ::)
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I could care less if it is talked about or not, I just don't think its a issue like it was before digital recorders and cell phones, I don't know if i am complacent or not but I don't even get nervous getting into venues anymore and I have never felt like security was looking for a taper, hell I have stood 3 feet away from security guys many times and still checked a level now and again. Its neither here nor there in IMO. That being said, specific technics probably belong in a pm but really how serious is a guy making 8-10 bucks an hour for a 4-6 hour gig going to take his job to the point that he scours the internet to get a tip just to bust a guy only to tell the guy to put his rig away or take it to the car....really ::)
This might be true in the US. In Europe things are different.
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This might be true in the US. In Europe things are different.
No, they are not. If anything, stealthing here is easier than at most other places in the world.
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This might be true in the US. In Europe things are different.
No, they are not. If anything, stealthing here is easier than at most other places in the world.
For audio yes.
For audio + video no.
See you're from Germany. Good luck stealthing audio+video there.
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This might be true in the US. In Europe things are different.
No, they are not. If anything, stealthing here is easier than at most other places in the world.
For audio yes.
For audio + video no.
See you're from Germany. Good luck stealthing audio+video there.
Here in the UK it's super-easy to stealth audio, pat downs are rare and wands are almost unheard of. As for video? Yeah, if they say 'no cameras' then they mean 'no cameras'.
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but really how serious is a guy making 8-10 bucks an hour for a 4-6 hour gig going to take his job to the point that he scours the internet to get a tip just to bust a guy only to tell the guy to put his rig away or take it to the car....really ::)
How about the director of the theatre who knows you by name, and may also sit next to you? It isn't take it to the car, it is "you are banned" from a top venue in the country. Really.
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but really how serious is a guy making 8-10 bucks an hour for a 4-6 hour gig going to take his job to the point that he scours the internet to get a tip just to bust a guy only to tell the guy to put his rig away or take it to the car....really ::)
How about the director of the theatre who knows you by name, and may also sit next to you? It isn't take it to the car, it is "you are banned" from a top venue in the country. Really.
Almost happened to me doing audio + video in a small club somewhere in Europe. They even wanted to call the police.
Luckily I could talk my way out of it.
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but really how serious is a guy making 8-10 bucks an hour for a 4-6 hour gig going to take his job to the point that he scours the internet to get a tip just to bust a guy only to tell the guy to put his rig away or take it to the car....really ::)
How about the director of the theatre who knows you by name, and may also sit next to you? It isn't take it to the car, it is "you are banned" from a top venue in the country. Really.
^ This.
I've actually had that happen. There is a chunk of a tape I have, about 3 songs long, that is crap because she stood RIGHT NEXT TO ME as they scanned the crowd for stuff that wasn't allowed. I figured it better to trash that segment than get caught so I acted normal to prevent drawing attention to myself. Not the only time she did it either...
Remember folks, just cause your environment is lackadaisical, doesn't mean it is for others...
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but really how serious is a guy making 8-10 bucks an hour for a 4-6 hour gig going to take his job to the point that he scours the internet to get a tip just to bust a guy only to tell the guy to put his rig away or take it to the car....really ::)
How about the director of the theatre who knows you by name, and may also sit next to you? It isn't take it to the car, it is "you are banned" from a top venue in the country. Really.
Exactly and I know for a fact this scenario has already happened. I think what a lot of folks here are missing is that information on this website has already been used to shut people down. People are acting like just because they have never been busted it won't happen in the future. Why anyone wants to increase the risk is beyond my comprehension.
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but really how serious is a guy making 8-10 bucks an hour for a 4-6 hour gig going to take his job to the point that he scours the internet to get a tip just to bust a guy only to tell the guy to put his rig away or take it to the car....really ::)
How about the director of the theatre who knows you by name, and may also sit next to you? It isn't take it to the car, it is "you are banned" from a top venue in the country. Really.
Exactly and I know for a fact this scenario has already happened. I think what a lot of folks here are missing here is that information on this website has already been used to shut people down. People are acting like just because they have neve been busted it will never happen in the future. Why anyone wants to increase the risk is beyond my comprehension.
WELL SAID!
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wow this topic is like mixing politics and religion! is breaking the propor taper ediquett code immoral? 1st of all, understand ive been drinking since 1 am . nuff said. its like the war on drugs, you'lle never stop bootlegging of anti taping gigs. i've done it myself when i was younger with an elaborate rig. (crutches that conerted to a mic stand) id hobble in with gear bandaged to my leg, even got special treatment several times! i wont stealth anymore, if i cant b out of the closet, i dont wanna go to the party. debate remains, you dont wanna jeapordise the taping sub culture,but there are lots o' bands out there that are cool or even encourage taping against the stern wishes of their record label n contract. these I say go forth! what about big production gigs u paid 200 clams 4 a ticket? I dunno. yer call. then u have masters of musical talent like frank zappa, who was brutally opposed to taping,but on the other hand it would be a crime if all his live gigs diddnt get arcchived even with a sonically crappy recording. I dont have the answer or want it. I have shared bootlegs, but I guess the golden rule is NEVER profit from the music you've had the honor n privelege of hearing. - spank, still drunk.
Spankee02, please lay off the "bootleg" term, unless whut yur drinkin' is bootleg liquor. :laugh: ;D
cant believe i read this whole post! :P i'm not the biggest fan of the word bootleg^^^. i open tape bands that allow it, so i wouldnt call open taping bootleg'in. but in this case^^ >:D, there isnt a better word that fits the bill. do i care who or what people tape or how or where they talk about it? not at all. if peeps dont want to be called a bootlegger, dont bootleg.
I could care less if it is talked about or not, I just don't think its a issue like it was before digital recorders and cell phones, I don't know if i am complacent or not but I don't even get nervous getting into venues anymore and I have never felt like security was looking for a taper, hell I have stood 3 feet away from security guys many times and still checked a level now and again. Its neither here nor there in IMO. That being said, specific technics probably belong in a pm but really how serious is a guy making 8-10 bucks an hour for a 4-6 hour gig going to take his job to the point that he scours the internet to get a tip just to bust a guy only to tell the guy to put his rig away or take it to the car....really ::)
^^with darktrain on this
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I have stealth taped for years, and had to learn from trial and error. (More errors than I want to think about). I realize that a lot of people here don't like the discussion of stealth techniques and I'm cool with that. If anyone needs exact info then I think PMs should be the vehicle of choice.
I agree that it helps to be creative and think outside the box.
said perfectly.
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I could care less if it is talked about or not, I just don't think its a issue like it was before digital recorders and cell phones, I don't know if i am complacent or not but I don't even get nervous getting into venues anymore and I have never felt like security was looking for a taper, hell I have stood 3 feet away from security guys many times and still checked a level now and again. Its neither here nor there in IMO. That being said, specific technics probably belong in a pm but really how serious is a guy making 8-10 bucks an hour for a 4-6 hour gig going to take his job to the point that he scours the internet to get a tip just to bust a guy only to tell the guy to put his rig away or take it to the car....really ::)
I've had people busted for iphone pictures next to me, fighting and even had a guy collapse next to while stealthing. If one is stealthy there is no need to discuss security gaps or such openly but trading info with other known stealthers is cool in my book.
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but really how serious is a guy making 8-10 bucks an hour for a 4-6 hour gig going to take his job to the point that he scours the internet to get a tip just to bust a guy only to tell the guy to put his rig away or take it to the car....really ::)
How about the director of the theatre who knows you by name, and may also sit next to you? It isn't take it to the car, it is "you are banned" from a top venue in the country. Really.
posting "hey, I taped this from row X seat Y" when you have a personally identifiable ticket is a big step from saying "venue X has weak patdowns". I don't see how this totally precludes discussion of stealthing from TS
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What is "Open Taping" :o
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Yes. Should Stealth Discussion Be Stealth? I can't let the cat out of the bag on a national forum about my secrets of Stealth recording.
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Proud to be one of the 7 wanting to ban it totally, so as to never see that gay hasselhoff thing again. >:D
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Discussions concerning whether or not stealth talk should be stealth should be stealth.
:-l
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Ummmmmmm ......... Ok noobie here and have a question?
If >:D is to be discussed in PM by members who >:D then how would one know who to PM to discuss >:D recording. Would it be a special section of TS ?? And if it was then how would one find out about it ?? How would one be able to access it if >:D conversation is to be by PM only ?? Or is your goal to ban >:D talk all together because I dont see a way it could exist here in any real format if it was a "stealth" discussion.
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Ummmmmmm ......... Ok noobie here and have a question?
If >:D is to be discussed in PM by members who >:D then how would one know who to PM to discuss >:D recording. Would it be a special section of TS ?? And if it was then how would one find out about it ?? How would one be able to access it if >:D conversation is to be by PM only ?? Or is your goal to ban >:D talk all together because I dont see a way it could exist here in any real format if it was a "stealth" discussion.
You post, "I have x question. Please PM me"
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Noobie- one question mark is always sufficient.
To find out who is a >:D er, try going to Kickdown Central. Find someone who has posted something that is not open recording, of the type of music/situation that you typically want to record in. PM them a question. Be more resourceful than you are currently being. Learn the hard way that 99% of >:D information is obtained the hard way.
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Ummmmmmm ......... Ok noobie here and have a question?
If >:D is to be discussed in PM by members who >:D then how would one know who to PM to discuss >:D recording. Would it be a special section of TS ?? And if it was then how would one find out about it ?? How would one be able to access it if >:D conversation is to be by PM only ?? Or is your goal to ban >:D talk all together because I dont see a way it could exist here in any real format if it was a "stealth" discussion.
Since you are local, I could show you a few things about >:D
Here's a recent stealth tape I made that turned out pretty well: http://archive.org/details/dalewatson2012-09-15.CA-14omni.flac24
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When i started to stealth..
I asked a person who tapes shows that
I enjoyed...what i need to buy to get started.
Then basically did it trial and error.. Started with a
Local band.. Did that a few times..
Then went to bigger venues...
You just figure it out..
Out discussion was kept private as he told
Me a lot of tapers dont like to discuss
"how its done" publicly...
Lessons learned, shows came out great othera
Not so much....
My advice keep it away from public keep
It private.. Pm's and emails
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when i got my first rig in 95, I stealthed several times , but there was no internet or forums to discuss even "open" taping. I had to figure it out for myself with trial n error. took a few years b4 I got it down. you guys dont know how lucky you are to have a forum to discuss taping methods ; open or not. especially beginners! Tape on my friends, the more we do it, seems like the more bands allow it.
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Stealth IMHO is not bootlegging, as I have had permissions to record many times by bands at a particular venue but the venue staff said NO, unless I had a means to record and not put up a stand as to distract those that are sitting around me that are there to enjoy the performance. This to me is what "Stealth" means in re. to recording. To record what is a "Bootleg" is a recording with absolutely no permissions and is also sold as bootleg-unofficial release screwing over the artist(s).
I am all for open recording when the venue and artists are aware and give permissions. I also have no problems reaching out to bands and or performers asking permission prior to an event as well as supplying the artist with a copy if they want it.
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I didn't vote in this poll because I don't identify with any of the proposed choices. Recording where recording isn't allowed can be a theft of service, and I don't wish to help people do that. But selfishly, I'd like to know what works well and what doesn't. It's a different set of technical problems from the ones I usually face.
Or maybe not. I have this one client for whom I'm the official recording engineer for their performing organization, but they severely hate having microphones that the audience can see. I've had to struggle at every concert for years now to get my microphones into places where they'll do any good at all. If I could sneak them into a hat or a jacket or the frames of my eyeglasses and get a good sound, I would.
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Wait, this is seriously a topic again?
There are dozens of posts here openly discussing stealth.
There is a book (Bootleg by Clinton Heylin) as well as more than a few articles about it.
The Internet exists. Nuff said.
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Wait, this is seriously a topic again?
There are dozens of posts here openly discussing stealth.
There is a book (Bootleg by Clinton Heylin) as well as more than a few articles about it.
The Internet exists. Nuff said.
^^ WHAT HE SAID.
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There are dozens of posts here openly discussing stealth.
doesn't mean they belong here
There is a book (Bootleg by Clinton Heylin) as well as more than a few articles about it.
then read the book and the articles but please don't discuss them here
The Internet exists. Nuff said.
yes it does so please use a different site if you want to discuss stealth
not everyone feels the way you do about the subject
< this post (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=163831.msg2053158#msg2053158) does a very good job of summarizing how I feel about open discussions of stealth >
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The winning poll option is that it's ok.
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I didn't realize an opinion poll had a "winner" and I don't consider 33.7% a majority. Even combining those 33.7% with the 15.3% who don't have an opinion one way or the other you still are less than 50% of those who do have an opinion. Statistics can be manipulated anyway you want.
We'll just agree to disagree about this issue.
Y'all go ahead and talk about it; I'll just do what has to be done to get the recording and not talk about how it was accomplished.
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OK, more people voted for that option than the others. That'll teach me to type quickly.
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If I could sneak them into a hat or a jacket or the frames of my eyeglasses and get a good sound, I would.
Seriously...that's most of it right there. What's the big deal?
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I didn't realize an opinion poll had a "winner" and I don't consider 33.7% a majority. Even combining those 33.7% with the 15.3% who don't have an opinion one way or the other you still are less than 50% of those who do have an opinion. Statistics can be manipulated anyway you want.
We'll just agree to disagree about this issue.
Y'all go ahead and talk about it; I'll just do what has to be done to get the recording and not talk about how it was accomplished.
I hear you, and I don't discuss it openly b/c I know it bugs people. But that cat is out of the proverbial bag, so to speak.
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Patience, Ed Gruberman. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Here's a fairly obvious tip: practice at home, in the dark. Even the PM thing is somewhat suspicious from someone with all of 6 posts. How do we know you are a taper and not a bouncer? And seriously, his thread is filled with people who have indicated their area of expertise. Pick somebody who is saying we should be able to post openly. That's not me, BTW.
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when i got my first rig in 95, I stealthed several times , but there was no internet or forums to discuss even "open" taping. I had to figure it out for myself with trial n error. took a few years b4 I got it down. you guys dont know how lucky you are to have a forum to discuss taping methods ; open or not. especially beginners! Tape on my friends, the more we do it, seems like the more bands allow it.
Exactly the same story here. I started in 93 or so. iIn the earliest days of the web, I discovered a talkgroup called BluesL. I think I learned of some real basics from others there. I picked up a D7 but had no idea what I was doing so I recorded straight to mic-in and suffered many disappointments of bad recordings just because I couldn't listen during the show and didn't know about preamps or battery boxes or even what causes mic distortion. After I had my D7 for awhile, I found DATHEADS, but even that site didn't have all that much in the way of gear speak.
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If you want to be a stealth taper......you need a mentor!
Someone to go to shows alongside and actually see what's involved in recording music in the field.
Newbies ask 6 million questions here before they even buy gear.
One field trip out to the nearest rock & roll show with an experienced taper will teach
you more than anything you can read here. Thats how i learned and even the very
first tape i made came out pretty good, not great....but far better than i expected.
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the first big open taping show i did was the palace @ auburn hills in 95. that taper sec. had prolly 100+ stands there. man, i was over my head & really intimidated! luckily I was next to a cool taper who looked at my gear n knew I was a newbie. he let me patch his pre amp for both nites! I had wires runnin all over my body, i almost pissed myself the 2nd nite cause i couldnt move from my seat. myself n lots of other guys were runnin sony analog decks. dats were still the new tech. the guy i was plugged into even had an old sony d-10-dat with what i think was an old sony dig converter.thanx to Dave from syracuse. I had the pleasure of seeing him at a max creek gig in buffalo a year later.Right now im choking myself and all of you with nostailgia, sorry. good nite.-spank
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I didn't vote in this poll because I don't identify with any of the proposed choices. Recording where recording isn't allowed can be a theft of service, and I don't wish to help people do that. But selfishly, I'd like to know what works well and what doesn't. It's a different set of technical problems from the ones I usually face.
Or maybe not. I have this one client for whom I'm the official recording engineer for their performing organization, but they severely hate having microphones that the audience can see. I've had to struggle at every concert for years now to get my microphones into places where they'll do any good at all. If I could sneak them into a hat or a jacket or the frames of my eyeglasses and get a good sound, I would.
imagining DSatz trying to disguise his mics so he can get them placed properly on the stage made me smile. if the band is not opposed to stage decoration you could create props that looked artistic, but with a dual purpose. professional >:D!!! ;D
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you need a mentor!
Someone to go to shows alongside and actually see what's involved in recording music in the field.
Newbies ask 6 million questions here before they even buy gear.
One field trip out to the nearest rock & roll show with an experienced taper will teach
you more than anything you can read here.
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Just a thought...
I'm on another board that has separate MBs for member that have posted more than 1000 times... Is it possible to create a board where long time members could privately discuss >:D w/o general public knowledge???
Terry
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Just a thought...
I'm on another board that has separate MBs for member that have posted more than 1000 times... Is it possible to create a board where long time members could privately discuss >:D w/o general public knowledge???
Terry
true, Bri's other board is like that.
devils advocate; what are the folks who have been here long enough to get access need to discuss it openly for? I mean, I've traded notes with some other long time users, but short of some really neat tricks, it's nothing that is outside of "necessity is the mother of all invention" sort of thing. It's the folks getting started that seem to want to most help.
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Just a thought...
I'm on another board that has separate MBs for member that have posted more than 1000 times... Is it possible to create a board where long time members could privately discuss >:D w/o general public knowledge???
Terry
true, Bri's other board is like that.
devils advocate; what are the folks who have been here long enough to get access need to discuss it openly for? I mean, I've traded notes with some other long time users, but short of some really neat tricks, it's nothing that is outside of "necessity is the mother of all invention" sort of thing. It's the folks getting started that seem to want to most help.
True enough... We could set the bar really low so that someone that is looking that may potentially be harmful to our hobby can't get to it on their initial visit... If someone is trying to get into taping, they'll ask a slew of questions and after a while could get access to info. If someone is looking for info in order to bust someone at an upcoming show, they won't even see it...
I have no idea... I'm a bit drunk... I have no interest in :P myself, but I know that it is valuable to my hobby of collecting music...
Terry
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Recent run-in with an artist at a show I stealthed:
"Hey man, you tapin' tonight?"
"Yup."
"Where's your rig?"
"Right here" <shows artist recorder, pre-amp, mics>
"Holy shit. That's fuckin' awesome! Hey Bill (bass player), come check this out. He put mics in his _____. Hope it turns out!"
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Recent run-in with an artist at a show I stealthed:
"Hey man, you tapin' tonight?"
"Yup."
"Where's your rig?"
"Right here" <shows artist recorder, pre-amp, mics>
"Holy shit. That's fuckin' awesome! Hey Bill (bass player), come check this out. He put mics in his _____. Hope it turns out!"
that sounds like a good "run-in" to me. in this age of electronic gadgets and gizmos, folks capturing video and audio with their cell phones, etc. i really don't think that stealthing a show for personal use is a bad thing or at all takes away from the profit of the artist. i'm not going to to argue that by strict definition of the law unauthorized stealth recording is not "theft of service"; but from a practical sense absolutely no one gets hurt. i end up with a really cool (and hopefully great quality) recording of the show that i attended, and i often purchase the authorized releases from the merch table. so even my little amateur recording that is only used for personal enjoyment does not detract from sales of the official merchandise. my hobby actually serves as a catalyst for putting more money into the artists pocket. and at the end of the day i think it's the record labels much more than the artists/performers who are opposed to stealth recording. most performers don't care what i have in my _________ as long as i'm not disrupting things. and based on the example quoted above i think most artists support what we do as long as it is done discretely and with respect.
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^^ open taping, especially by a certain disrespectful minority of open tapers, is more disruptive to the artists than stealth.
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^^ open taping, especially by a certain disrespectful minority of open tapers, is more disruptive to the artists than stealth.
I second that.
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We have to remember that concert security guards cant read never mind use a computer. So have no fear of talking about stealth :P