Topic: 4060s - how much is too much

[dklein]

I'm wondering what the collective experiences are with 4060s and concert level volumes.  Most people seem to use the 4061s but I was thinking that it might be cool to have something with high sensitivity so I could drive the JB3 in analog stealth mode.

4060s are spec'd to a max of 134dB SPL, where the 4061s go to 144dB.

The sensitivities are 20mV/Pa vs. 6mV/Pa.  I already know that I can't get what I want with the lower sensitivity of the 4061.

So the question is...do you 4060 guys ever  find the mics being overloaded, in what scenario and what were you using for phantom?

Thanks!

[mhibbs]

I don't think you going to see anything approach 134db in a concert environment.

[Sean Gallemore]

unless you are in sweden and right next to the stack, you won't reach 134dB.  No personal experince with the DPAs, but I use mics rated at 138 SPL in very loud and close environments and have never had a problem.  Hope someone can be of more help

[Nick's Picks]

IMO, and i've used them both...the 4060s are definatly the way to go.  the 61/71s are just too low sen to sealth w/o a preamp.

[BobW]

FWIW, just listened to SCI show from 10/5/2003 Philly.

Band playing games with the crowd as usual, took a loudness measurement of band and audience screaming at the same time. Band used PA, audience acapella.

Rear of theatre at the soundboard read 113 db

[jpschust]

yah i dont think you guys realize how loud 134dB really is. at 130dB you are talking about the noise from a jackhammer or an air raid siren.  at 140 you are talking about a plane taking off.  Our shows arent registering at 134 or even all that close to that.  

[zhianosatch]

IMO, and i've used them both...the 4060s are definatly the way to go.  the 61/71s are just too low sen to sealth w/o a preamp.

that's a negatron, my friend. i've never, ever had a problem feeding a line input with my 4061s.
in fact, one time i had bill's sbm-1 at 4, line in, with my mps's high pass filter on, at the end of cradle of filth on dec 05, 2003. no preamp in sight.
maybe you should see louder shows!
armen

[zhianosatch]

unless you are in sweden and right next to the stack, you won't reach 134dB.  No personal experince with the DPAs, but I use mics rated at 138 SPL in very loud and close environments and have never had a problem.  Hope someone can be of more help

really? you've never strapped these on? i stealthed myself belching last night. a chili cheese dog from frank's famous + newcastle + dr. pepper = the most entertaining dat transfer ever. i gotta put this shit on cd.
lol about sweden... good times
a

[dklein]

I realize that 134dB is loud but figured it might be possible that the source of phantom power may be a factor and that perhaps the specs could be loose.

thanks for the replies.

[plucks]

I think in this case, sensitivity should be the main factor.  You will most likely never reach an SPL more than 125-130, ever.  
The loudest parts of most concerts are 110db...that's when it starts to hurts a little.
another 10dB (120db) will equal double the dB levels to what you are hearing  (This is different than the doubling/halving of 6dB relative to distance), and another 10dB (130db) willl double that!  
You should be fine with either dB on that and your main feature should be the sensitivity because of that.  


Phil

[Nick's Picks]

Armen and Coluzi..
have you ever run the 4060?
im telling ya, there just isnt' a *need* for the low sen models.  Ever run them at into a JB3?  way too low sen.  Especialy at quiet shows, like jazz...
While they might work fine for loud shows, and i'm sure they do, the 4060's work better for a broader range of live performances.
but, that's just my opinion.

[Sean Gallemore]

fugging logs

[zhianosatch]

Armen and Coluzi..
have you ever run the 4060?

nope...

im telling ya, there just isnt' a *need* for the low sen models.  Ever run them at into a JB3?

  no

way too low sen.  Especialy at quiet shows, like jazz...

yes, i can imagine that. i've never really been to a quiet show. my burps must be loud!

While they might work fine for loud shows, and i'm sure they do, the 4060's work better for a broader range of live performances.
but, that's just my opinion.

and a valid one.
the need for the lower sens model is to pad the user's ass. i feel a lot more comfortable knowing that my 4061s can handle anything well beyond any ambient noise i'll ever encounter. don't they have a smaller dynamic range? i'll take that for the peace of mind.
what if your power supply isn't doing the job? what if DPA's numbers are off? what if you like to tape the stack at cradle of filth?
just in case, better get the tougher mic... or so i think.
a

[Nick's Picks]

even still...if your clipping a 4060, you'd have blood comeing out of every orafice in a matter of minutes.
130+db is fuckin LOUD.

even MULE doesnt come anywhere near this.

[macdaddy]

even MULE doesnt come anywhere near this.

how about j mascis or trail of dead??? I saw a dino jr show at the roxy years back and it was the loudest thing I have ever heard. painful.

I saw ToD last year @ the Henry Fonda with Mogwai opening (the are another band that plays loudly, almost excessively). It was that show that convinced me to wear earplugs at every show, which I have done to this day...

I even wore earplugs taping rich robinson acoustic last night, not so much for him, but for the crappy music they blast over the PA between sets. plus it makes my tapes sound that much better to me when I get home ...

I use the 4060s. I picked them because I thought they had more dynamic range, and because I dont just tape loud bands, so the higher sensitivity is a boon there...

if you go mic in, you might want the -20db att cable, too - I needed it. But I go line in primarily (with the sbm1) and need no att cable for that, although I sometimes get mighty close to 4 on the sbm1 (and going under 4, certainly under 3, for some reason causes fierce clipping - I still dont get that part, but I know to avoid it)....

if the dynamics are better, which I think they are, the 4060s are the way to go...

I think the ones at core sound are around $900, which is more than they run on ebay, but the ones you get from core are matched, and you get the batt box with switchable filter...