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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: JasonSobel on November 24, 2009, 02:50:22 PM
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In the near future, I'm going to be looking for a USB interface for audio playback. My only requirements are:
(1) connects to a Windows computer (most likely running Windows 7) via USB 2.0. No PCI cards, no firewire... must be USB 2.0.
(2) has bit-perfect S/PDIF (or AES) output. It could be coax, optical, XLR (for AES), whatever kind of connection, it doesn't matter. But it needs to be bit-perfect S/PDIF (or AES).
(3) support for 24 bit / 96 kHz stereo files.
I was checking out the ESI Audio Dr. DAC nano, and it seems to fit all of my needs.
http://www.esi-audio.com/products/drdacnano/ (http://www.esi-audio.com/products/drdacnano/)
and it's only $70 (I think). Less expensive is a good thing here.
Does anyone have experience with this? I know ESI makes some quality soundcards, so that's a good thing. Does anyone have any input? Thoughts? other products I should look at?
Thanks,
Jason
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I'm thinking that this is the Cadillac for your needs,
http://www.stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/bel_canto_usb_link_2496_usb-spdif_converter/
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thats pricy, sexy but pricy all the same
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yes, I am aware of the bel canto "USB Link 24/96".
but I don't want to shell out $500 for this.
I think the Bel Canto caters towards audiophiles who claim to be able to hear the difference between two different S/PDIF cables. or even claim to know which USB cable sounds "the best". In other words, I think I can get something that will easily fit my needs and perform reliably, for a lot less than $500. something like the Dr. DAC nano that I referenced in the first post, perhaps...
any other thoughts or suggestions?
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I like that Dr. DAC, hadn't seen that before.
Nothing along those lines in any of the mags I get. Have you checked "Affordable Audio"? http://www.affordableaudio.org/
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Buy one of these and tell me how it sounds... The guy that builds them lives in my neighborhood, but I've never met him. If only I had the loot...
http://www.kandkaudio.com/digitalaudio.html
Terry
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Have you checked "Affordable Audio"? http://www.affordableaudio.org/
I haven't looked through "Affordable Audio" at all. Thanks for the suggestion.
Buy one of these and tell me how it sounds... The guy that builds them lives in my neighborhood, but I've never met him. If only I had the loot...
http://www.kandkaudio.com/digitalaudio.html
Terry
Terry, the K&K Audio site looks interesting, but unfortunately, the USB to S/PDIF kit only supports sample rates up to 48 kHz, and won't do 96kHz. so that's out as an option.
Thanks for the suggestions.
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Not to be the annoying guy who disregards your clearly stated criteria but if you can sacrifice spdif out the Music Streamer+ (and its little brother) has gotten good reviews,
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/85279
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Tim,
Not annoying at all, because I do like to hear everyone's thoughts and suggestions. However, a couple of points. That Music Streamer+ looks like it's limited to 16/48, so that's another knock against it. I am also aware that there are several USB DAC's that can handle 24/96 that could potentially be good solutions.
But at this point, I want to continue to use my Grace 901. Mostly because it is so awesome and it sounds great. Both the 901 DAC and pre-amp are fantastic. And I really like the sound I've got with the 901 in combination with my Channel Islands monoblocks and VR-1 speakers. All around, I think the sound is awesome, and I don't want to change a thing, other than using a computer as the source instead of my Denon DVD player. For the source computer, we're going to get a Dell Zino in the next month or so (either as a holiday gift, or purchased with holiday gift money). That way, we can also stream video from the web directly to our TV via the HDMI out. both the web streaming video and the small form factor is what makes the WAF so high with this one. but there's no room for PCI cards, which is why I need to find a USB 2.0 solution to get S/PDIF out to the 901. :)
- Jason
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ahh crap, I thought it did 24 bit. Doh!
I'm with you, I love my dac and don't have any interest in going to usb->rca.
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Since I'm going to be moving to a laptop here soon, and want to keep my current DAC (non USB), I'm in the same situation.
The EDI-Audio unit looks nice, but I'm not 100% comfortable with using optical on a regular basis.
I've been curious about this, http://tinyurl.com/yf8ls2t, and mentioned it in another thread. Lots of discussion on headfi about it, too.
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Since I'm going to be moving to a laptop here soon, and want to keep my current DAC (non USB), I'm in the same situation.
The EDI-Audio unit looks nice, but I'm not 100% comfortable with using optical on a regular basis.
I've been curious about this, http://tinyurl.com/yf8ls2t, and mentioned it in another thread. Lots of discussion on headfi about it, too.
thanks for the link and suggestion. I haven't read through all of the head-fi discussion yet, it'll probably take me a few days to get through all that.
However, my first thoughts on the Musiland Monitor 01 USD (relative to the ESI-Audio Dr. DAC nano) are:
(1) I don't mind optical at all for home listening. At a show is a different story, but at home, it'll be steady, won't be moved around, so I think it's be solid. In fact, I already use the optical S/PDIF out of my DVD player to my DAC (because the coax S/PDIF is connected to my DAT deck).
(2) I have prior experiense with ESI Audio (I used to own a WaveTerminal 2496 PCI soundcard). It was a great card, and I trust the company. The Musiland looks like it's a small operation, and not from an established company with a good reputation. That isn't to say that the Musiland is bad or not a good option, just that I'd rather buy a product from a company that's been around for a while, so if I need service or support down the road (5 years? more?), there's a good chance that the company will still be around.
all that said, I think there are close to 50 pages on head-fi about the Musiland, so it's certainly a lot to read through, and maybe my opinion will be swayed in one direction or another.
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All good points. The ultimate question is, are these devices bit-perfect? I just shot an email to the Musiland seller. Hopefully I'll hear back soon.
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please share anything you head from the Musiland seller (positive or negative).
In regards to the ESI Audio device, in the specs (contained on the link in my first post) -
16bit/24bit, 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 96kHz bit-perfect support
NON-PCM (Dolby Digital/dts) Pass Through support
the fact that ESI lists "bit perfect support" in the second line of the specs leads me to believe that the are aware that this is something that people care about. Of course, I might be reading into that a little too much, but even so, it's a good sign that they come right out and say that it's bit-perfect.
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Quick response from the seller of the Musiland states that it IS bit-perfect.
Is there a US distributor for the ESI?
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Quick response from the seller of the Musiland states that it IS bit-perfect.
Is there a US distributor for the ESI?
very good to hear about the Musiland being bit-perfect.
The only US distributor in the US listed on the ESI website is:
http://www.kaysound.com/ (http://www.kaysound.com/)
I sent them an email yesterday evening, just asking general questions about price, and how long it would take to get it delivered after being ordered.
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Am I wrong to believe that USB to S/PDIF is a simple DIGITAL TRANSLATION
If it is bit accurate, that's all that should matter.
Didn't Gordon (live2496) test some of these for bit accuracy recently?
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Am I wrong to believe that USB to S/PDIF is a simple DIGITAL TRANSLATION
If it is bit accurate, that's all that should matter.
Didn't Gordon (live2496) test some of these for bit accuracy recently?
I agree that if it is bit perfect, that's really all that matters. But I had been investigating USB dacs a couple months ago and found that many/most (all?) of the usb dacs I could find for mac were limited to 16bits. The DACs would often have coax and optical inputs at 24bits and they would bill themselves as 24bits, but if you really dug around and did research, they were only 16bits when using the USB input.
The Musiland got very good reviews from what I saw and was true 24bit with the USB, but only with PCs. I can't remember now if it didn't work with mac or whether it was only 16bits on usb on mac, but either way it wasn't an option for a 24bit usb dac for mac.
Good heads up on the ESI unit, I'll have to look into that more.
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Good to hear that people have had good experiences with ESI products in the past. I found their Gigaport HD multichannel USB DAC (http://www.esi-audio.com/products/gigaporthd/) a while back when looking for a 5 channel 24/48 capable USB DAC that I could just plug into a laptop USB port for surround recording playback (hardly anything else available that is DAC only and not a recording interface at less than multi-K$ prices). I perhaps unfairly wrote it off as most likely a cheap piece of junk priced at a mere $120 street.
Interesting in that it can use the available USB bandwith to output 2 channels at 24/196, 8 at 44.1/16 or a number of intermediate steps in between- 6 channels @ 24/48 work for me. Maybe I'll give it a go after all. I'm not expecting it to be a Mytek and the price makes it easy.
Appears to work with the Mac OS at those 24 bit rates too, Todd (but I'd check that).
Feature list from the ESI page linked above:
- 24-bit / 96kHz D/A converter
- 8 independent output channels with RCA connectors
- different playback modes: 44.1kHz with 16-bit and 8 channels, 44.1kHz with 24-bit and 6 channels, 48kHz with 24-bit and 6 channels, 96kHz with 24-bit and 2 channels
- 2 independent stereo headphone outputs: 1st output sends out mixed signal of all playback channels, 2nd output sends out different signal from playback channel 1/2 - perfect for monitoring and to pre-listen to signals
- compatible with Windows XP and Windows Vista supporting ASIO 2.0, WDM, GSIF, MME (using ESI's EWDM driver technology)
- compatible with Mac OS X and supported by the native CoreAudio USB audio support from Apple, no special driver installation required
- bundled with Cubase LE 4 from Steinberg for Mac & PC
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I'm now also taking a close look at the M2Tech HiFace:
http://www.m2tech.biz/products.html (http://www.m2tech.biz/products.html)
it looks like this could also be a viable option.
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I scored one of the Musiland 01 USD devices on ebay used. My laptop should be here soon, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to do any real testing before NYE or the move back west, but I will chime back in. After reading the headfi discussions, it appears that people have had success running it with Win 7 x64, which is what my laptop will have.
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right on. when you do get your laptop, please do let us know how the Musiland works out for you.
At this point, I'll likely make my purchase sometime between Dec 27 and Jan 3. Right now, I'm leaning towards the M2Tech HiFace. everything I've read about it has been very positive. but that doesn't mean that I can't be swayed one way or another in the next couple of weeks :)
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Am I wrong to believe that USB to S/PDIF is a simple DIGITAL TRANSLATION
If it is bit accurate, that's all that should matter.
Didn't Gordon (live2496) test some of these for bit accuracy recently?
I was bit testing the Western Digital Media Player. (I haven't tested any of the USB -> SPDIF devices)
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Well, Fedex's tracking site stated my laptop would not arrive until Wednesday, but it came today. ;D
I hooked it up, installed the x64 drivers from the CD included with the Musiland device. It was super easy. The normal "auto-install" will not work in x64. You must manually run the separate driver installer. The diagnostics tool allows you to set the output bitrate and sample rates and offers a "Test" function which chimes a bell in the left channel and then the right.
I'm running: PC > USB 2.0 > Musiland 01 USD (coax out) > Mytek Stereo96 DAC > AKG K-702 Heaphones
The Mytek has a normal "signal input" function (allows up to 24/96 with no upsample), as well as "Superlock" which upsamples to 192k, but also allows incoming sample rates of 192k as well. With the Musiland's diagnostic tool set to 24/96, I get audio with the Mytek at both input settings. When the Musiland is set to 24/192, I am only getting output when the Mytek is set to Superlock mode.
I installed foobar and have been listening to the motb 5/15/80 (24/96) release. Sounds pretty good.
I'm confident the Musiland is spitting out the right data, but I'll probably hook it up to the old desktop with the Audiophile 2496 and try to record some stuff sometime in the near future.
edit - the motb music files are located on an external HD connected via USB
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Any thoughts on the E-MU 0404? Has all kinds of digi ins and outs, especially AES. And it has USB 2.0 for 24 bit transfers. Anyone gots?