Topic: Edirol R-44 - 4 Channel Recorder (Part II)

[cybergaloot]

Just got this email from Doug this morning:

Hi !
 The Edirol R44 with the Concert MOD is up on the website. It can be found here :
http://www.oade.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=OBA&Category_Code=EDIR44-Concert
Supply is still a bit tight but more on on the way.
thanks so much ...Doug

Soooo tempting, just need to find a little extra cash.

Just $914 dollar to go and I'll be buying one! I wonder if he'll discount if I ride up to Thomasville and pick it up? Seriously, this mod is only a few bucks more than buying a stock unit elsewhere so why go anywhere else?

[digifish_music]

I checked the Oade mod page for the R44.

I am in no doubt that the internal mic-pres can be improved - from a random-noise/hiss perspective. For example, if I want to do any quietude recording with the R44 I need to use a MixPre in front of it. I previously posted the following recording, 10 ticks R44 max gain, then 10 ticks MixPre set to match this gain and the R44 at minimum gain to compensate, NT1-A mic...

Click here to download WAV file (3 Meg)

Noise of R44 vs MixPre mic preamps



However Doug at Oade notes on his site that there is 'display-noise'? ...

"Edirol R44 Concert  upgrade rebuilds the mic preamps using high speed,low noise and very low distortion op amps that dramatically improve detail and clarity. Improvements are also made to reduce the audible digital noise that contaminates the analog signal path with noise generated by the display."

...as I previously posted, I looked/listened carefully for any digital noise and couldn't find any:

---------------------------------------------------

OK, here is a Rode NT4 sitting in a vocal booth connected to an Edirol R44 running all but flat-out on the internal preamps...

R44 on internal batteries.
Chanels 1 & 2.
Phantom on.
Low-cut off.
Limiter off.
Display on (default brightness).
Preamp sensitivity (max) = -56 dB
Level = 12 O'Clock
24 bit @ 44.1 kHz

Here is the sound <- Click here to download the 10 second sample





IMO those are some beautiful looking noise graphs from a digi-noise perspective. Not a spike anywhere, only hiss and some low frequency rumble (very low level and recorded not digital). The same is true when you normalize or add any level of amplification to the digital recording. I would be genuinely interested to know what Doug is hearing?

In case you are wondering what digital noise may look like, in my experience, digital noise usually appears as spikes in frequency histograms or lines in spectrograms...see this R09 plot picture





or even more dramatically, here's device-to-device interference (digital camera on R09)



digifish

[Ozpeter]

Good question.

When it comes to noise, there's the first law of noise reduction which states something like "noise reduction software gets very good results on a recording which has very little noise in the first place".  I don't doubt that I could get some stunning low noise results from the R-44 if I ran it through Audition's NR process, as it would be modifying the file hardly at all.  Heh, might give that a try...

[Ozpeter]

And tried it I did, but the noise level is too low for Audition to work on to any significant extent.   Simply not worth doing in the context of a music recording.

[flipp]

Does anyone have both an R44 and a FR2LE they could take a pic of so I can get a size comparison? None of my local musc stores have one in stock and I don't want to drive the 50 miles to the nearest place I could find that has an R44 in stock. Call me lazy. If a pic has been posted elsewhere, on or off TS, can you post a link?

TIA

[Ozpeter]

A valid noise comparison between the FR2-LE and the R-44 would be interesting, seeing how the FR2-LE is considered to have a quieter-than-most mic preamp.

[digifish_music]

BTW: Here is an R44 with the internal mic-pres cranked (-56 dB Max) sucking on a MixPre with the gain turned down to minimum (I suppose this will present a silent load?)



digifish

[flintstone]

No side by side photos to show size, but the
FR-2LE is smaller in each dimension and 45% lighter.
This is what you might predict knowing one is a 2 channel
recorder and the other is 4 channel.

Fostex FR-2LE
57 x 132 x 206 mm
900 g

Edirol R-44
61 x 157 x 183 mm
1300 g

The cheapest price I could find this morning for the FR-2LE
is $450 from a reliable eBay seller named "new-items-only." 

Audiomidi.com offers the the R-44 for $795 with free shipping.

Flintstone

[flipp]

That gives me a good idea. 1/8 taller, 1 inch narrower but also ~1inch deeper front to back; and about a pound heavier. Not sure I would ever do a four channel mix but one recorder would be easier on the back and more compact than the two complete rigs I've been using lately (FR2w + a stock LE). Could even go back to a smaller bag. More what if I change to that will probably go no further than wishful thinking.

No side by side photos to show size, but the
FR-2LE is smaller in each dimension and 45% lighter.
This is what you might predict knowing one is a 2 channel
recorder and the other is 4 channel.

Fostex FR-2LE
57 x 132 x 206 mm
900 g

Edirol R-44
61 x 157 x 183 mm
1300 g

The cheapest price I could find this morning for the FR-2LE
is $450 from a reliable eBay seller named "new-items-only." 

Audiomidi.com offers the the R-44 for $795 with free shipping.

Flintstone

[NOLAfishwater]

o.k. so I am going to try something new at some point this week. Here is goes:


mono x 4 or 4ch x 1?
channels 
1 - subcard @ lip of stage
2 - subcard @ lip of stage
3 - spot mic on vocal monitor for singer
4 - mono SBD feed

anyone know? I looked in the R-44 user guide and it did't distinguish between the two settings

[cybergaloot]

o.k. so I am going to try something new at some point this week. Here is goes:


mono x 4 or 4ch x 1?
channels 
1 - subcard @ lip of stage
2 - subcard @ lip of stage
3 - spot mic on vocal monitor for singer
4 - mono SBD feed

anyone know? I looked in the R-44 user guide and it did't distinguish between the two settings

I'd be interested in the outcome. That setup might work good for the club I record in most.

[Ozpeter]

What format you use depends on what you will do with it later.  A 4 channel file will open in some software and not others.  I'd be inclined to stick with 2 stereo or 4 mono, which will open in anything.

[Colin Liston]

Does anyone have both an R44 and a FR2LE they could take a pic of so I can get a size comparison? None of my local musc stores have one in stock and I don't want to drive the 50 miles to the nearest place I could find that has an R44 in stock. Call me lazy. If a pic has been posted elsewhere, on or off TS, can you post a link?

TIA

Here you go:

[digifish_music]

Does anyone have both an R44 and a FR2LE they could take a pic of so I can get a size comparison? None of my local musc stores have one in stock and I don't want to drive the 50 miles to the nearest place I could find that has an R44 in stock. Call me lazy. If a pic has been posted elsewhere, on or off TS, can you post a link?

TIA

Here you go:

Nice. Can you post a comparison of the R44 and FR2LE mic-pres with the same mics at close to max/matched input level? Ticking wall-clocks make good audio-standard subjects.

digifish

[flipp]

Does anyone have both an R44 and a FR2LE they could take a pic of so I can get a size comparison? None of my local musc stores have one in stock and I don't want to drive the 50 miles to the nearest place I could find that has an R44 in stock. Call me lazy. If a pic has been posted elsewhere, on or off TS, can you post a link?

TIA

Here you go:

Thanks, looks like the R44 would even fit in a Nova 1.