Topic: Using attenuators

[gratefulphish]

Well, having said that the 722 can take the full-blown analog signal of the V3, I'd venture to say it is better to run the 722 at 0db, and reduce the output of the V3.

From my standpoint, I'm lazy and want to reduce the amount of time I spend post-processing.  So I run the V3 hot and run the 722 at -5db.  This since I run V3 (digital)> recorder (either H120 or MT) at 16bits and run V3(analog) > 722 at 24 bits.  If I run the V3 hot and calibrate the V3 to the 722 with the 722 set to -5db, then I can just directly use both the 16 bit and 24 bit recordings, without needing to boost my levels in post.  If I ran the 722 at 0db gain and ran the V3 lower, then at the least I'd need to boost my V3>MT (16 bit) recording by (at least) 5db.

Such laziness aside, from a pure sound standpoint, running the 722 at 0db gain would make more sense than adding a more gain to the signal than necessary at the V3 and then reducing it at the 722 by running at -5db.

Well, you opened up a whole new door of ideas with this post.  With the R-4 Pro, it was either 16 or 24 bit.  Now, as you have pointed out, I can run the 722 at 24, and the MT at 16, when I am not otherwise running four tracks, and just give the band the CF card at the end.  Might make life much easier that doing all the post myself. Thanks again.

[SClassical]

If I want to make a 10dB pad cable do I put a 2.2K resistor between the tip on one end to the other and another 2.2K resistor between the the ring of one end to other, then bridge the tip and the ring with another 2.2K resistor? (Using 1/8" TRS connectors both ends).

[SparkE!]

If I want to make a 10dB pad cable do I put a 2.2K resistor between the tip on one end to the other and another 2.2K resistor between the the ring of one end to other, then bridge the tip and the ring with another 2.2K resistor? (Using 1/8" TRS connectors both ends).

No. Doing that just gives you a bunch of crosstalk between the channels.

If you know the input impedance of the device into which you are feeding the signal (call it Rin) and that input impedance is can be considered to be purely resistive in the passband of that input, then you just need series resistors in both the left and right channel signal paths whose values are both equal to approximately 2.162 Rin.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

It would be interesting to do some live comps that focus specifically on the audio impact of attenuators and whether they degrade sound. I recently picked up an eaa psp2 and it runs pretty hot for loud shows so I'll either be running the pad on the mics or the 722 at -6 or both.

And as far as the 722 is concerned, in conversations with Justin at sound devices he has discouraged running it super hot. In general I think my recordings where I peak at -12 to -8 are better than those where I ran closer to 0. I think the RMS avg is also a factor (beyond mere peak) since it tends to vary greatly with type of material.

[gratefulphish]

And as far as the 722 is concerned, in conversations with Justin at sound devices he has discouraged running it super hot.

What level did he consider to be "super hot?"

[it-goes-to-eleven]

He generally encouraged recording to a lower level, maybe -12 or so.  Though the focus of the discussion wasn't so much on audio quality as you approach 0.

I had reported some problems with distortion if the 7xx clipped while the bass roll off was enabled.  So that is what lead to the discussion.  At quiet shows in tape from seat situations, a loud clapper in the next seat can really blow your levels..

I think we can only settle this 'optimal level' question through some good comps.

[gratefulphish]

I had thought from reading numerous threads here, that the additional dynamic range added by 24 bit recording allowed us to back off levels from trying to peak close to 0db, and that -6db was considered adequate in a 24 bit setting.  But -12db seems to be wasting a lot of potential range, and since I rarely tape anything close to quiet, I am not worried about the potential of a loud clapper blowing my levels.  But in any case, that still seems like a lot of empty space.

BTW, which rolloff settings were you using, and what were the issues.  I had been considering using the 722 rolloff vs. the rolloffs on the Neumanns, as in almost all indoor settings, I have found them necessary for decent recordings.  I also have the option of using the V3's rolloffs as well.  Anybody ever compare the various rolloffs?   This could be a new thread.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I think you'd be better off using the rolloff on the mic but you should really do your own tests. I'd expect the 7xx roll off has been improved but don't know the current status. Running it at all was somewhat of an experiment and I haven't touched it since I was burned. I was using the mildest rolloff setting.