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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: jcable77 on December 28, 2018, 08:27:57 AM
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Im not sure if Im just exhausted or what? I just got a pmd661mk3 and im in the process of testing it. I connected with the digi cable of a v3 and cant get levels( presets to dig 24/48 stereo, same as v3) unless I turn up the rec level on the mk3. Unplugged it, and plugged the same cable into my mk2 and with rec levels all the way off have signal like I would normally. Does the mk3 have level control over digital signal? Am I missing something?
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Maybe a silly question, but do you have D.In set as the input in the menu settings? I have never seen the record level control work on a digi in as the deck is only a bit bucket at that point so it sounds like a menu issue. As you know Marantz pre-set menu setup is really detailed but can be confusing when setting up.
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Yeah, its D.in. Ive never seen a deck have adjustable record level while dig in. All my presets are the same as the mk2. Maybe a firmware issue? Its weird, it runs fine with record levels @12:00 or +0.
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I also bought one of these recorders recently, so just now I unboxed it and replicated your setup. To my astonishment, the record level controls are in effect even when the input is digital. And I don't see a way to defeat or bypass them. (Approximate unity gain is near the top of their range, but it's only approximate.)
If I'd known this I wouldn't have bought the recorder, though I may use it for its analog inputs at some point. Meanwhile, unless/until there's a workaround, I wouldn't use it as a "bit bucket".
I mean, I can see the designers' point of view. But even if they wanted to make this behavior the default for the benefit of less technically informed users, the controls really should be "bypassable" via a menu item.
--best regards
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I also bought one of these recorders recently, so just now I unboxed it and replicated your setup. To my astonishment, the record level controls are in effect even when the input is digital. And I don't see a way to defeat or bypass them. (Approximate unity gain is near the top of their range, but it's only approximate.)
If I'd known this I wouldn't have bought the recorder, though I may use it for its analog inputs at some point. Meanwhile, unless/until there's a workaround, I wouldn't use it as a "bit bucket".
I mean, I can see the designers' point of view. But even if they wanted to make this behavior the default for the benefit of less technically informed users, the controls really should be "bypassable" via a menu item.
--best regards
Thank you for looking into it. Glad Im not just crazy. Who wants to trade a brand new mk3 for any condition mk2? Hopefully B+H will take it back.
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I also bought one of these recorders recently, so just now I unboxed it and replicated your setup. To my astonishment, the record level controls are in effect even when the input is digital. And I don't see a way to defeat or bypass them. (Approximate unity gain is near the top of their range, but it's only approximate.)
If I'd known this I wouldn't have bought the recorder, though I may use it for its analog inputs at some point. Meanwhile, unless/until there's a workaround, I wouldn't use it as a "bit bucket".
I mean, I can see the designers' point of view. But even if they wanted to make this behavior the default for the benefit of less technically informed users, the controls really should be "bypassable" via a menu item.
--best regards
Thank you for looking into it. Glad Im not just crazy. Who wants to trade a brand new mk3 for any condition mk2? Hopefully B+H will take it back.
With patient searching a mint condition 661, version 1 or 2 can be picked up on fleabay for a very reasonable price.
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I also bought one of these recorders recently, so just now I unboxed it and replicated your setup. To my astonishment, the record level controls are in effect even when the input is digital. And I don't see a way to defeat or bypass them. (Approximate unity gain is near the top of their range, but it's only approximate.)
If I'd known this I wouldn't have bought the recorder, though I may use it for its analog inputs at some point. Meanwhile, unless/until there's a workaround, I wouldn't use it as a "bit bucket".
I mean, I can see the designers' point of view. But even if they wanted to make this behavior the default for the benefit of less technically informed users, the controls really should be "bypassable" via a menu item.
--best regards
Thank you for looking into it. Glad Im not just crazy. Who wants to trade a brand new mk3 for any condition mk2? Hopefully B+H will take it back.
With patient searching a mint condition 661, version 1 or 2 can be picked up on fleabay for a very reasonable price.
Haha, I probly should have held onto the one I just sold you. :facepalm:
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^
D'oh. :facepalm:
It took me a minute to make that connection. I also recently picked up a mkII from fleabay to send to Doug Oade for modding. I'll blame my sluggish brain function on the frigid temps here. Or it could possibly be Father Time. :yack: The pmd661 is a great recorder. I have an Oade modded one here that I've been using for ~10 years, excellent for both open and 007...
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My dealer (Dale Pro Audio in NYC) gave me contact information for an engineer at the parent company of Marantz Pro Audio. I just wrote to that person about this problem; I suggested a firmware update to add a menu option that would bypass the record level controls for the S/P-DIF input. That way, newbies would still get the behavior they expect, and "oldbies" like us can also get what we need.
BTW, one reason I like to buy stuff from Dale is that they have actual audio engineers on their sales staff. They understood the problem right away and cared about it, even though this was a small-ticket item. I'm sure that if I'd asked them to do the talking for me, they would have done so, and in a knowledgeable way.
--best regards
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I heard back almost immediately from the engineer at "inMusic Brands" (parent company of Denon and Marantz Pro as well as RANE). He understood the problem completely, but no one had brought it up to them before (!), and it is already late in the "product life cycle" for the Mk III. He said that no firmware update is currently scheduled, but he will ask whether one can be considered.
His email was guarded/reserved about that possibility, though. Apparently a Mk IV version is already in the works; my guess is that it might get this menu option if that is feasible (which no one has said yet), and/or it might happen sooner for the Mk IV than for the Mk III.
--best regards
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^ In my experience dealing with Marantz re the issues I had with the 706 I found them to be very responsive and had "music pros" working the customer service lines but the same feeling from them that they were very guarded in promising any kind of actual results.
They eventually came out with a firmware fix for the problems I had but only after a year. Can't see them spending the time and money on a what could be considered a minor glitch that doesn't affect the large part of the consumer base when they have a new version coming out soon anyway.
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Update without an update: Since it had been three months, I checked back in with the gentleman at "inMusic" who had written to me before (and a gentleman he seems to be, real talk).
He said that the Mk IV version hadn't been released yet (no comment on whether or not it will offer bit-accurate digital recording) and that no firmware updates had been scheduled so far for the MK III. But he hinted that there might be more to say soon, if I understand him correctly.
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I wonder if the menu preset for gain on the spdif input should always be set to auto? I have a Tascam CDRW 700 burner that has an option taking a digital input to engage the gain pot, allowing for digital gain adjustment on the fly. It's worth experimenting I think. Feed the MKIII a few different digital signals with a range of recording levels and see what happens with the gain setting to auto and compensate if the recorded signals are raised or lowered to the same general level
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i have mkIs in the yard sale for you bitbucketers
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MKII won't play nice with Portadat. MK0 worked for hundreds of transfers. Now Imjust get a digital error message. :help:
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I bought Ed's MKIII not for the digital input but something entirely different.
But, this had me wondering, why have a variable level control for a digital input? Who records that way? And what kind of AD would send a signal that needs adjustment at the recorder position? I'm assuming all level adjustments were done at the pre stage.
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I bought Ed's MKIII not for the digital input but something entirely different.
But, this had me wondering, why have a variable level control for a digital input? Who records that way? And what kind of AD would send a signal that needs adjustment at the recorder position? I'm assuming all level adjustments were done at the pre stage.
It's a great field recorder, i did a few recordings digi-in to see what the problem is?
Mine sounded great....but they probably arent bit perfect from the source, oh well
I still have one and i use it!
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The person I had corresponded with before has left the company, but my renewed request has reportedly been sent "to the product team for review". In the meantime, see http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192871.msg2322775#msg2322775 , which is very interesting.
I just did a bit of testing with the recorder set for automatic level control, which is something I would otherwise never have thought of doing. I fed signals into its digital input, and if I moved the record level controls, a sign came up on the screen saying "ALC" and the rec level controls had no effect whatsoever (which goes along with what I expected based on DATBRAD's message). I could turn them all the way up or all the way down; they were clearly out of the circuit (or the logic flow).
However, I didn't see or hear any actual ALC action from the recorder. I sent a set of overload-y signals in--repeatedly blowing into a mike that was connected to another recorder, whose digital output I fed into the Marantz--but there was no audible reduction in gain, and the meters registered similarly before, during and after the overloads.
So that's rather strange--but I think it might mean that the ALC setting, while not providing ALC, might provide 1:1 "bit bucket" capability. I can test for that, but it would take another hour's work or thereabouts, and right now I'm only awake temporarily (I hope) during a bout of insomnia, so I'll do that some other time.
--best regards
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Old thread but here I am. I picked up a refurb 661 MKIII for super cheap. Tested it out and much to my surprise the level knobs are controlling the SPDIF input.
Did anyone figure out what "unity gain" setting on the level knobs is using digital in? Seems to be near the top of the range just from guessing. Does using ALC take the level controls out of play? I have never used Auto level control for anything ever so just setting that makes me cringe but I suspect that is it - just haven't tested it yet.
I'll use it as it is not a huge deal to me I was just really surprised. I've never had a recorder that had level control when using digital input.
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Does using ALC take the level controls out of play? I have never used Auto level control for anything ever so just setting that makes me cringe but I suspect that is it - just haven't tested it yet.
Reads like that's the case, even though it's counter-intuitive.
I suspect "traditional operation" will require switching ALC on when recording via the digital input (as it locks out manual adjustment, while performing no automatic digital level adjustment), and switching ALC back off again when using the analog inputs.