Topic: Which 4-channel recorder when using 1/8" output on TinyBox and XLR for SBD?

[adrianf74]

Now that my Naiant AKG Actives and TinyBox and various cables have shipped, I'm trying to figure out the last piece of the puzzle.  Right now, I've got the M10 which is a great little deck but I really want to record 4 clock-synched channels when I have board access (which seems to be increasing of late).  I know one option is to pick up another M10 and use either TRS or XLR to 1/8" with various adapters.  In my world, P48 doesn't matter since my Actives will be powered by the TinyBox.

I know the Tascam DR-2D (now disco'd) would give me two 1/8" connections.  I also know the Tascam DR-60D seems to give me a lot of what I'm looking for but I don't know if it's got enough clout around here.  I'm looking a solution, preferably, under four-bills.

Any help is appreciated.

[achalsey]

Since you're not using phantom or the pres, I personally wouldn't think it seems necessary to have XLR in on the recorder just for a board patch.

I used the DR-2d for a bit before selling it to move to a 680, and thought it did its job fine (especially for the price).  You just need a RCA > 1/8" cable, which you can find at radio shack or cheap on monoprice, and then a pair of 1/4" and XLRf adapters (also cheap on monoprice) and you're good to go.  An attenuator cable might be helpful, but if you're friendly enough with the soundguy you can avoid it with just asking him to turn the feed down if its too hot.

If you're looking for more substantial, and to your requested specs, the Roland R-26 is another choice though.  It looks pretty solid, but does seem a little pricey for a handheld especially when you can find 680's for not too much more, but I suppose thats just personal opinion.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=821260&Q=&is=REG&A=details

[colinw]

Adrian, I use a Dr-2d for what you're doing.

I run Busman bsc1 > Tinybox (providing p48) > dr-2d mic in.
Also SBD > dr-2d line in.

It works really well and it is a perfect solution for very little money.

I have recorded a bunch of shows that way with no issues from the SBD being too hot for the line in. I have never had to have the soundguy turn down the signal, but having a couple of attenuators can't hurt just in case you need them.

I have 10, 20 and 50 feet runs of RCA>miniplug cable that I use depending on how close I can get to the SBD. If the SBD doesn't have an RCA out, I have a bunch of adapters I use (XLR female to RCA female, XLR male to RCA female, 1/4" TRS male to RCA female, 1/4" TRS male to stereo RCA, and some various other adapters. If you spend 40-50 bucks on a bunch of adapters from b&H and a decent rca/miniplug cableyou have every situation covered.

Not sure if you can find a dr-2d around but they were going for under $100 for a while. The only thing I don't like is the battery life. I can only get about 4-5 hours from a fresh set of alkalines recording 4 channels. Usually a fresh set of batteries for each show/night I record, not a big deal but much shorter life than the battery life with the M10.

The R-26 from Roland is a nice little unit but much more expensive.

Good luck with your choice.

Here are a few recordings with the dr-2d using SBD + ambient mic sources:

http://archive.org/details/acresandacres2013-02-02.busmanbsc1.sbd.flac16 Acres and Acres - nice acoustic set, sounds really good.
http://archive.org/details/jinxthecat2013-05-04.bsc1.sbd.flac16 Jinx the Cat - jam/rock, mix is a bit bassy at the beginning then gets dialed in.

[acidjack]

I use an R-26 increasingly because it has much better standalone battery life (and runs forever on an external) and still gives you the P48 on two channels while having the option to take SBD via the 1/8" input (though you need to attenuate that signal, and should with the DR-2D also).

The DR-2D is cheaper and doesn't have the P48. I personally hate connecting up a bunch of stuff when I want a nice light rig, so I like having the P48.

My thoughts on the 680 are well publicized. I'll leave it at that.

[colinw]

I use an R-26 increasingly because it has much better standalone battery life (and runs forever on an external) and still gives you the P48 on two channels while having the option to take SBD via the 1/8" input (though you need to attenuate that signal, and should with the DR-2D also).

The DR-2D is cheaper and doesn't have the P48. I personally hate connecting up a bunch of stuff when I want a nice light rig, so I like having the P48.

My thoughts on the 680 are well publicized. I'll leave it at that.

AcidJack, should I be attenuating the dr-2d line in from a SBD? I have only used it 4-5 times with a SBD patch from various venues and soundmen, and none of the times it required attenuation when running with input level at 95 (as per the dr-2d thread), into the line in. There was no spiking or clipping and the levels maxed out at about -15 db, which I boosted in post. I thought I only needed an attenuator if I was getting such a hot signal that I was clipping? Does an attenuator change the sound or just the levels?

Sorry to derail the thread!

[adrianf74]

@achalsey: Thanks for the 411.  Perhaps the Tascam DR-2D is what I'm looking for.  I know they're disco'd so I'll just have to keep my eyes peeled for a minty one (I've seen a couple go for fair prices in the Yard).

@colinw: Thanks as well for the info.  I'm kinda leaning towards the DR-2D as a solution for when I need it.  It'll just depend on if I can find one for a fair price somewhere (and no, you're not derailing the thread with your question).

@acidjack: Your thoughts on the 680 are extremely publicized and I know we've had a few chats about that in private as well.  I know the R-26 is something I could consider, however, it seems to be backwards to what I need.  When I chose my actives, I had to decide if I wanted to go with a PFA solution with two XLRs or go with something more "portable" for use with the M10 (which I currently have).  P48 doesn't interest me at all.  Since the TinyBox runs 1/8" output, I'm reserving the 1/8" connection for the Actives leaving the XLR input for a board patch (although I know the DR-2D with crappy battery life could work, too). 

[Chimney Top]

Roland R26 - XLR/TRS input for sound board line out, 1/8" input from the tinybox, and the internal mic's for backup.

[Gutbucket]

AcidJack, should I be attenuating the dr-2d line in from a SBD? I have only used it 4-5 times with a SBD patch from various venues and soundmen, and none of the times it required attenuation when running with input level at 95 (as per the dr-2d thread), into the line in. There was no spiking or clipping and the levels maxed out at about -15 db, which I boosted in post. I thought I only needed an attenuator if I was getting such a hot signal that I was clipping? Does an attenuator change the sound or just the levels?

Sorry to derail the thread!

You derail, I'll answer for others. 

No need for attenuators if your SBD>Line-in levels are peaking around -15dbFS.  There should be no change in sound using attenuators, they simply lower (attenuate) the signal level before it reaches the input of the recorder.  You would only need them if you could not otherwise avoid clipping with the DR2d line-input gain set to 95.  If you are consistently peaking at -15, you could even raise the input gain to 100 and peak around -10dbFS if you cared to.  I wouldn't bother though.  It's nice to have that extra 5db cushion just in case. 

I also have never had a problem clipping the line-input with a SBD feed and never got around to making attenuators for my DR2ds ‘just in case’, but of course you don't need them at all until you do.  If that were to happen, as long as I felt I wasn’t imposing I’d simply ask the soundguy to lower the output level of the feed at the board.

[tgakidis]

Roland R26 - XLR/TRS input for sound board line out, 1/8" input from the tinybox, and the internal mic's for backup.

This is how I have rolled a few times.  I have also run my Sonosax mini out to 1/8" in on th er26.

[acidjack]

AcidJack, should I be attenuating the dr-2d line in from a SBD? I have only used it 4-5 times with a SBD patch from various venues and soundmen, and none of the times it required attenuation when running with input level at 95 (as per the dr-2d thread), into the line in. There was no spiking or clipping and the levels maxed out at about -15 db, which I boosted in post. I thought I only needed an attenuator if I was getting such a hot signal that I was clipping? Does an attenuator change the sound or just the levels?

Sorry to derail the thread!

You derail, I'll answer for others. 

No need for attenuators if your SBD>Line-in levels are peaking around -15dbFS.  There should be no change in sound using attenuators, they simply lower (attenuate) the signal level before it reaches the input of the recorder.  You would only need them if you could not otherwise avoid clipping with the DR2d line-input gain set to 95.  If you are consistently peaking at -15, you could even raise the input gain to 100 and peak around -10dbFS if you cared to.  I wouldn't bother though.  It's nice to have that extra 5db cushion just in case. 

I also have never had a problem clipping the line-input with a SBD feed and never got around to making attenuators for my DR2ds ‘just in case’, but of course you don't need them at all until you do.  If that were to happen, as long as I felt I wasn’t imposing I’d simply ask the soundguy to lower the output level of the feed at the board.

I can't speak to the DR-2D specifically, only my real-world experience with both the DR-40 (Tascam) and the R-26. I've had the line on both clip or appear to clip at the lowest setting when taking an SBD feed, a problem solved only by using an attenuator. 

Adrian, you can use the miniplug input on the R-26 to take the input from the tinybox and run the SBD into the XLRs. Either way it should work.

[Chimney Top]

Roland R26 - XLR/TRS input for sound board line out, 1/8" input from the tinybox, and the internal mic's for backup.

This is how I have rolled a few times.  I have also run my Sonosax mini out to 1/8" in on th er26.

off topic, but do you use the Sonosax (or any external preamp) XLR output with the R26 XLR input?  I've mentioned this before, but the Mixpre/FP24 doesn't interact well with the R26 XLR/TRS (set at line level), but the mini-jack works ok.  Thanks

[tgakidis]

Roland R26 - XLR/TRS input for sound board line out, 1/8" input from the tinybox, and the internal mic's for backup.

This is how I have rolled a few times.  I have also run my Sonosax mini out to 1/8" in on th er26.

off topic, but do you use the Sonosax (or any external preamp) XLR output with the R26 XLR input?  I've mentioned this before, but the Mixpre/FP24 doesn't interact well with the R26 XLR/TRS (set at line level), but the mini-jack works ok.  Thanks

No, I have not.  I have only used the XLR jack on the R26 for a SBD feed.  I have many recorders and unfortunately it gets the least usage.

[adrianf74]

Thanks for the info folks.   

With what I've read around here, I'm leaning towards the DR-2D despite the sucky battery life.  For the times that I will have board access, I think that route makes greater economical sense.   I've seen some DR-2D's go for around $100 in the Yard in mint or practically new condition.

I can find the Roland R-26 local to me for C$399 + 13% sales tax.  If I can't find a minty DR-2D, that'll likely be my next choice but I'd rather not spend the extra coin unless I have to.

[jbell]

When I had the DR-2d I used an external battery!!  The Naztech PB15000 works great, but could be overkill.  I used the Naztech to power a pre and the DR-2d.

Thanks for the info folks.   

With what I've read around here, I'm leaning towards the DR-2D despite the sucky battery life.  For the times that I will have board access, I think that route makes greater economical sense.   I've seen some DR-2D's go for around $100 in the Yard in mint or practically new condition.

I can find the Roland R-26 local to me for C$399 + 13% sales tax.  If I can't find a minty DR-2D, that'll likely be my next choice but I'd rather not spend the extra coin unless I have to.

[Gutbucket]

despite the sucky battery life. 

How often you need more than 6 hours of powered up recoring time? That's about my safe limit using LSD NiMH AAs and the updated firmware that's been out a few years.  I have a couple small external lithiums each of which would run it for an entire weekend back when the original firmware depleted AAs in about 2 hrs. but haven't used them since the update.