Topic: Microtracker vs Edirol R-1

[zowie]

PMD671 + FP24 > R-4   

[MattinSTL]

You mean it's a bad choice 'cause the price together is over an R4?

[zowie]

Price is a tad higher.  Rig is more complicated. Less recording time.  2 tracks instead of 4.  No meaningful size advantage.  But at the end of the day if the sound is noticeably superior -- which I just don't know -- then it certainly might be the better way to go.

Not saying it's a bad choice, just curious about rational. 

Edit: Especialy if people come to agree with nicspics that an ACM mod 671 sounds better than a stock ACM with an extrernal pre and, I'm estimating, costs less too.

[sleepypedro]

Edirol makes an R4 which has a digital input

http://edirol.com/products/info/r4.html

dunno if this has been posted yet as i'm 5 days late to the party on this thread, but the digital input on the r4 resynchs to its own internal clock

[MattinSTL]

Price is a tad higher.  Rig is more complicated. Less recording time.  2 tracks instead of 4.  No meaningful size advantage.  But at the end of the day if the sound is noticeably superior -- which I just don't know -- then it certainly might be the better way to go.

Not saying it's a bad choice, just curious about rational.

Honestly I don't know if the sound will be any better and it very well could be NOT as good! I'm in an odd situation of needing to tweek levels really frequently... and I wanted some nice fat knobs on the pre. Also there are times that I'll use one thing or the other by itself.

For my use of audio I probably don't fit into these forums too well... For me it's mainly location sound for video.

[Evil Taper]

Here's some R1 vs JB3 pics:

[liverecording2004]

Hey all!

Concerning Microtrack vs R-1
Given the bug-reports --> I´m especially worried about the reported freezing of the unit when starting a recording - which seems to be anything more than a simple bug  )  which one would you recommend as being the more stabile unit ...

Should one by the Microtrack and hope for the bugs being all sorted out in future firmware releases ?

Sound-Quality: I have checked out the Maximum-Gain Sample at Oade --> For a High-Tech Device I hear a lot of hum ..  Any comments on that ...

Again, thank you all for being such a great user community!

cheers
liverecording (vienna, austria)

[Evil Taper]

I guess it really depends on the situations you'll be taping and when you need a unit by.  The Microtracker is looking like a big bust right now with all of the firmware issues and battery problems.  If you're planning on stealthing you may as well pass on the Microtracker unless you wanna also carry around a battery sled and an external ADC or a 1/4" line adapted.  I'm gonna try this Oade mod R1 out saturday (Zeke) and see how I like the sound and stealth ability of this unit.  I've got alot of shows to tape in the next month or two so I'll get some real field testing done in different types of situations and environments.  I'm hoping 4061 + Oade R1 = sick tapes

If you're just open taping though there's other options that are proven to work great.  A lappy with an audiophile card can record at extremely high resolutions and rates or the bigger flash card units are proven to perform very well.  Without decent mics though it's not really gonna matter how nice your recorder is, buy those first.

[liverecording2004]

Thanx Evil!

I´m mostly taping jazz ... so the soundspectrum is very wide (ranging from low-key-improvisations to very loud free-jazz) ...  I was looking for a semi-professional (DAT-Quality) small all-in-one box ... preferabely hassle-free  ...

Concerning the  R-1 I like the idea of being able to change batteries (which gives me unlimited energy during a festival - this could be the crucial point for me !)

Could you please elaborate on what exactly the Oade Mod are? Do they affect size (I want the device to be as stealthable as possible) 

Again thank you ... I wish you nice recordings with your equipment ...

[pfife]

No, the Oade Mod doesn't change the size.   The only mod he does on the R-1 is a T-Mod, short for "transparency mod" - He also does these modifications on the UA-5.  If you do a search for T-Mod on TS, surely you can find some discussions about the sonic qualities of the mod.

Thanks for the pics Evil.

[Todd R]

Sound-Quality: I have checked out the Maximum-Gain Sample at Oade --> For a High-Tech Device I hear a lot of hum ..  Any comments on that ...

I would want to know what Oade means by maximum gain.  Is it the maximum gain you can get when the MT is set to the High gain on the L/M/H with the levels maxed, or is it that plus the +27db gain boost found in the menu system?  If the latter, who cares?  That 27db gain boost setting is useless.  From the manual, it appears it is nothing more than digital scaling.  Which, first off, is going to introduce (or greatly amplify) noise.  If this is what Oade used, it is no wonder it sounds really bad.  Secondly, there is no need to ever use it, IME.  It doesn't do anything you can't do with any sound processing package in post, and if you do it in post, you might get away with far less digital scaling gain than +27db.

[zowie]

So why not call or email Oade and ask.

[Todd R]

Just did, we'll see what his response is.  I'd be a bit surprised if he used that BS +27db scaling, but who knows.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Anyone know what the gain range of the R-1 is?    722, for example, is -10 to 70 dB. I checked the edirol site but specs were limited.

[Savior_Self]

Thanks!  Well thought out and said ... I can FINALLY sleep at night.  No shit, for three-four weeks I have done nothing but labor over which one to get.  I purchased a Marantz, but the damn thing was SO BIG that I had issues getting it into places.  Between the size and having to program it (even though you can have presets), made it more of a pain in the ass than anything else.  MiniDisc was O.K., but not enough recording time and swaping the discs every 74-80 minutes is a pain (and ATRAC is lossy as well)... DAT's dead,  so it looks like the Edirol R1 is my choice.
Thanks again!

A list of my why I personally like the R-1 (and perhaps why you'd like them too) and why I'm not currently interested in the Marantz models and the Microtrack:

-The size. Just because the MT is the size of a deck of cards doesn't make it anymore useful if now I also have to get a USB battery pack, and a stereo dual 1/4 inch to 1/8 adapter (to use the MT line in) just to make it work at minimal expectations. Sure, those additional things don't take up all that much space, but neither does the R-1. I had no problem crotching DAT, so this thing is an absolute breeze. And considering my rig is mics->homemade batt box->R-1 line in, I'm pretty much as light-traveling as I could get.  Obviously the Marantz units are huge in comparison to either the R-1 or MT, and therefore not an option for me (and I suspect most of you who want something they can open tape AND stealth).

-Battery powered. It uses only two AA batteries and not an internal power supply. As has already been proven, the MT's battery life is questionable at best. And like I said before, internal power supplies have only so much time before they quit holding charge, which pretty much means you can only use the MT only so long over time before it will stop powering long enough to record a show of any length, which leaves you with having to have the internal battery replaced. Apple paid out big because their ipods weren't holding even half of the advertised juice. And already, people are resorting to hacking their ipods just so they can replace the battery themselves. That's nuts, especially since with a decent set of AA rechargeables you have easy-access power with the most minimal charge time. So, with the R-1, you can switch out batteries any time you want. And batteries are available at every grocery store and gas station in the country. And since it only uses two, any standard pack of four gives you two backup.  I don't have the time to be worrying about "geez, did I charge the MT long enough? Am i ruining the charge cycle by not letting the battery completely run out? Will I have enough power?"  It totally defeats the purpose of stealthing if I have to be checking the unit every ten minutes to make sure it hasn't died, not to mention waiting three+ hours for it to even charge each time I want to use it. This whole powering issue is one of those things that I have no idea where someone decided a "permanent" power supply was better than a removeable/replaceable one. If it's not broke....

-Easy layout and use. The R-1's button function is like a DAT or traditional walkman/stereo, so there's very little "re-adjusting" to be done. It has play/stop/volume/record/input buttons that are extremely easy to adapt to and are quick to set. Apart from the simple presets of your recording (bit rate, sample rate, stereo) there is no additional menu scrolling and click after click. In fact, the menu is as stripped down, intuitive, and as straight forward as can get, dare I say idiot-proof. To record, hit the record button twice, adjust levels, and then put the unit on Hold.  Plus, the location of the input level button makes it so you don't have to worry about wrecking your levels after you put the recorder in your bag. It's hard enough to mess up even without tape over it. I give similar praise to the Hold button and power switch. An extremely well designed unit, button wise. Oh yeah, and for you people asking about the Value Wheel...it has nothing to do with your active recording. Once you have the Hold button on, it's frozen as well. And no, it isn't the input knob, it's just for scrolling the menu.

-The screen light. It's a dark orange/red that is much more stealthy IMHO than the bright blue light the MT has. Sure it's nit-picky, but it's a nice feature.

-The R-1 actually works, the MT does not. Half-working does not count. You don't buy a car that has an engine that doesn't start, but decide to get it anyway because the windows roll down now do you?  There is no telling when the MT, if ever, will be working correctly.  And by then, the R-1 can only have gotten better as well. Power issues appear to be the least of the MTs problems.  And even if the MT was working, I still think the physical design of the R-1 is better. I'm all for more manual control and less menu scrolling.

-Last but not least, the R-1 sounds WONDERFUL. People on this board have already expressed that the R-1 is AT LEAST as good as mod sbm-1, and that's stock. Coupled with the fact that this unit works OUT OF BOX and is reliable, I am more than happy to stay in 24/44.1 for a long while.  Time is money, and when there are shows to tape the last thing I need to be worrying about is whether or not my recorder is gonna let me down.