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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: VinceG. on February 29, 2012, 12:30:06 AM
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Hello Everyone. I was referred to this site by a taper buddy at fan site for a popular rock band. I've been taping since around 1999, when I purchased my first MD recorder (Aiwa AM-F70) and Aiwa clip-on Stereo mic while stationed in Japan, and until recently, that gear has been my primary means of taping.
Within the last few weeks I've given serious thought to finally ditching my MD recorder and switching to something much more up-to-date. I've been doing some research on my own, along with the help of my fellow tapers at the fan site I mentioned above, and this is what I've narrowed it down to as far as what I would term "beginner's gear":
Recording unit:
Tascam DR-05
Mics:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-12
Pre-Amps:
SP-SPSB-8
SP-SPSB-10
SP-SPSB-11
Again, this is my first time working with this type of equipment. I'm working on a budget because I know recording equipment like this can get fairly pricey. I was told that this forum would be an excellent place for assistance and advice. If anyone can give me some insight as to how good this equipment is, or any other tips, I would appreciate it very much.
Thank you.
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Spend the few extra bucks and get the sony pcm-m10 and also read through the forum here. You can pick up some better mics here in the yard sale for a very nice price.
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Lots of folks here will suggest, and I pretty much concur, that you go with Church Audio mics for your uses. Why? Main reason is, they have better high-SPL handling without any "mods" that SP needs to do to make theirs work for your purpose.
You can get CA-14 cardiods, then perhaps one of their smaller omni models (I prefer the CA-1), and the very tiny Church battery box, for about the same price as that SP gear. These mics are actually made for taping, as opposed to being essentially modified lavalier mics.
Darktrain is right that the Sony PCM-M10 is better than the DR-05, but it also costs more. If the $100 makes a big difference to you, the Tascam deck will certainly do what you need it to do. Though for taping, I'd consider instead the DR-2D, which is more popular on here, only $20 more than the DR-05, and has 4 channels so you can run two sets of mics or mics + SBD if you want.
http://www.amazon.com/Tascam-DR2D-Portable-Digital-Recorder/dp/B003838PHQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330545485&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Tascam-DR2D-Portable-Digital-Recorder/dp/B003838PHQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330545485&sr=8-1)
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Lots of folks here will suggest, and I pretty much concur, that you go with Church Audio mics for your uses. Why? Main reason is, they have better high-SPL handling without any "mods" that SP needs to do to make theirs work for your purpose.
I have to agree here. Navigating the product lineup of Sound Professionals is an absolute minefield. I cannot, to save my life, understand how they don't realize this and it's a shame because some of their products are actually terrific. However, all to many people have purchased SP gear "not knowing" that they needed the high SPL version of model SP-BMC83938202920 (did I mention their product line is confusing?).
With Chris' stuff, you're gonna get a product that is well thought out and probably retains a higher resale value because it is more well known. I am not saying that either company makes better products, but simply put with Church you're getting microphone 'made by a taper for tapers' and there will be no surprises in terms of equipment received.
Now that I've sufficiently fluffed Chris' gear (for good reason) I will mention that if you need something in a hurry, SP will be the better choice assuming it doesn't take you just as long to figure out which product you actually need.
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Lots of folks here will suggest, and I pretty much concur, that you go with Church Audio mics for your uses. Why? Main reason is, they have better high-SPL handling without any "mods" that SP needs to do to make theirs work for your purpose.
You can get CA-14 cardiods, then perhaps one of their smaller omni models (I prefer the CA-1), and the very tiny Church battery box, for about the same price as that SP gear. These mics are actually made for taping, as opposed to being essentially modified lavalier mics.
Darktrain is right that the Sony PCM-M10 is better than the DR-05, but it also costs more. If the $100 makes a big difference to you, the Tascam deck will certainly do what you need it to do. Though for taping, I'd consider instead the DR-2D, which is more popular on here, only $20 more than the DR-05, and has 4 channels so you can run two sets of mics or mics + SBD if you want.
http://www.amazon.com/Tascam-DR2D-Portable-Digital-Recorder/dp/B003838PHQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330545485&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Tascam-DR2D-Portable-Digital-Recorder/dp/B003838PHQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330545485&sr=8-1)
Here is an example of the CA-14/CA9200 recorded with a Tsacam DR-@D recorded by my 12 year old son. Its defintiely a nice rig for the money. As a comp my recording reorded with Schoeps MK4, Active cables, NBox and Tascam DR100
CA-14
http://www.planetrocklosslessbootlegs.com/showthread.php?105977-Poor-Man-s-Whiskey-Arrow-Stage-Warren-Hellman-Memorial-SF-Ca-02-19-2012-KidTaper&p=189221
Schoeps MK4
http://www.planetrocklosslessbootlegs.com/showthread.php?105973-Poor-Man-s-Whiskey-Arrow-Stage-Warren-Hellman-Memorial-Concert-SF-Ca-Feb-19-2012&p=189213
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This is in the YS and you would only need a recorder plus you would have Card and omni options!
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I saw the Audio Technica trademark and bought some BMC-12 from Soundprofessionals. The specs on the Soundpro site are, if I can use a technical term, bullshit. They do not go down to 20 Hz. There is a steep bass rolloff, probably under 80 or 100 Hz, so what you get if you record a band sounds tinny.
As said above, the actual mic capsules are lavalier mics for speech--from a Samson wireless system, IIRC. I have written Soundpro about the incorrect spec and they blew me off, saying they got the spec from Audio Technica. My recordings didn't convince them, and they removed my negative ratings from the "reviews." It's my first negative experience with them after years of getting mics and battery boxes from them, with good, reliable customer service. But the wrong specs on the BMC-12 are a serious breach.
However, if you don't have the budget or the time to wait for Church Audio CA-14--and I prefer omnis--you can get very good recordings with SoundPro BMC-2 into a battery box into Line-in. Get the warranty, because if you do a lot of taping, the cool, stealthy little mic cords will wear out and the warranty pays off with a replacement.
Meanwhile, the BMC-12 are great for interviews or lectures. But that's because they are optimized for voices, not music.
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Everyone, thank you for your suggestions. Please keep them coming. I'm open to all ideas and suggestions. I have until May when I attend the concert that I'm going to where I plan to tape the show.
Yes, I am working on a limited budget, especially since I've changed positions at my present job where I'll be earning less $$$ than I was previously.
Again, than you guys. :)
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Church Audio CA-14[Cards/Omnis] Mics, a Church Audio 9100/9200 Preamp, and a Sony PCM-M10, and sit back and enjoy your HQ recordings ;)
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First of all, you are going to be blown away by how much better your recordings are than the ones through the little Aiwa mic.
If the concert is amplified then you can skip the preamp and same some $$. Instead, get a battery module from Church Audio or Sound Professionals--a gizmo that takes a 9V battery and sends enough power to the mics so that you can record through Line-in. $40-$60.
The preamp is more powerful and more flexible, for nature recording, unamplified voices and music, etc. But if you're only taping shows, even folk music with a microphone onstage, it's not necessary. You can get one later when the budget improves if you want.
In situations where you would need a preamp, the PCM-M10 recorder already has a (smaller, lower-quality, but still very nice) preamp built in at the Mic-in jack; in fact, a Mic-In jack means there is a preamp on the way to the recording. I would expect Tascam's preamps to be good enough as well. In the old Minidisc days, that preamp would overload for anything loud or bass-heavy.
There's no preamp at the Line-in jack, which is why you'd run the preamp or battery box through that jack instead.
I agree with the consensus here about the CA-14--I prefer the omnis. But they are twice the price of the BMC-2 and much larger, a thumb-tip compared to a pencil eraser. If you are planning to be stealthy the BMC-2 are stealthier. For amplified concerts, you want to get the Low Sensitivity version.
Another thing to consider is turnaround time. Church Audio is a one-man show, and he can take weeks to get around to building your mics, with the added delay of shipping from Canada. So if you are going to go the Church Audio route, your May concert isn't that far away. And as noted above, look in the Yard Sale here first.
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I think jmbell was referring to my CA-11 listing in the yard sale. No wait for a minty setup. Let me know if you're interested, I'll give you an old new guy discount. I was the same until July when I came out of ~18yr retirement. FYI they're smaller than the 14s, and they don't have fixed wind screens, so they're much more flexible IMHO.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=153777.0
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Yep, I forgot to add the link! :-[
I think jmbell was referring to my CA-11 listing in the yard sale. No wait for a minty setup. Let me know if you're interested, I'll give you an old new guy discount. I was the same until July when I came out of ~18yr retirement. FYI they're smaller than the 14s, and they don't have fixed wind screens, so they're much more flexible IMHO.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=153777.0
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However, if you don't have the budget or the time to wait for Church Audio CA-14--and I prefer omnis--you can get very good recordings with SoundPro BMC-2 into a battery box into Line-in. Get the warranty, because if you do a lot of taping, the cool, stealthy little mic cords will wear out and the warranty pays off with a replacement.
seconded -- I love the BMC-2 mics. can't beat the size on them either, significantly smaller and easier to mount than my CA-11s