Topic: Vintage Home Recordings on Vinyl - Where to start with transfers?

[runonce]

South Central PA - middle of nowhere...or the middle of everywhere...near DC/philly/pitt/harrisburg/baltimore/

[Johnny Thunder]

Heres a story of refurbishing a 40 year old deck, and, what came about just after I finished it. I posted it on a turntable builders forum about a year ago, and have cut and pasted it here:

OK,....
So, I've been building, spending, 'cipherin, spending, installing, tweaking, bending, obsessing, spending.
Finally it comes to fruition, just this past week, and the build is complete.

So, just tonight, Sarge, Heidi, the spousal unit, *provider of exceptional service for 30 years, is cleaning out an old family heirloom, a secretary (*Hank Hill moment). In it, she finds this old record in the bottom drawer, and because of all of my recent 78 acquisitions, she thought it was one of mine. So she throws it on the ottoman, and goes about her business, assuming I'll find its home, and put it away.
At any rate, I did find it, and, peeking thru a torn sleeve that it was in, was a wonderful red record (I love colored vinyl). So, curiously, I opened it, and found, this old Recordio disc:







This is an old 78 record made by her father back on July 4th, 1955. Its my wife, Heidi, at about a year and a half, and her sister, who was about 4.
He captured my wife saying a few baby words, like mama, nana, and just blabbering.
He captured also her sister singing Davey Crockett - King of the Wild Frontier.
I brought it back to her and showed it to her, and she just lit up.

Long story made more rambling,...
Heidi is off work this week, because her mother passed away late last week. Her father passed on a few years back.
We've been on a bit of a reminiscing thing this week, going back to her old digs, haunts, etc.
We've had this secretary for probably 20 years, and we had no idea that this disc was in the bottom drawer.
So, ultimately, the timing of the find is beyond coincidental - Its almost kind of spooky.

So, I broke out my portable recording rig, and ran a copy of the recording to digital for her (haven't edited it yet).
I'll post the Davey Crockett song in a bit. Cool stuff.
The quality is pretty grainy, but, its just made Sarge all grinny and happy - which ultiamtely makes the effort and expense  of this build-out worth every cent.

At any rate,.... the overall timing of the entire project, the finding of the record, etc., quite strange.

I just thought I'd share,... thanks for hearing me out.

Any time's a great time to reminisce with family. This is an AWESOME STORY! Thanks for sharing about it here and giving us a little peek into a day in your life. I guess I've got a soft heart. Things like this just kinda get to me, you know?

-JT

[mfrench]

thanks, JT

That record was found after a month of renovating a turntable that had 78rpm capability. I never had that speed option before.
It also came the same week that her mom passed on (a year or so ago now), and at a time of heavy reflection. So, serendipity did rear its head here.

Runonce:
Talk about your player.
Take some pictures of the underpinnings - up the skirt shots. It might be worth bringing to life, it might be a gem. Or it might be a dog. I looked for any sort of similar deck in a google search of Ensign TT, and found nothing -  So its of unknown quantity/quality.
You can get the old idler wheels overhauled for $35'ish by a gent named Ed Crockett -- search: idler wheels Ed Crockett - hes one of few left that service them, and very well regarded. This is assuming that its an idler drive (but as old as you say, it likely is).
At any rate,... Shoot some pics, quality closeup macro, if you have that ability. I can take a look at it via pics and see if its worth doing anything with, or, if you need to move on, and can make some rec's.
Old Dual 1009 and 1019 are very worthy project decks, and aren't too far out of reach, yet (vintage decks are upwardly progressive in their pricing right now).

[runonce]

thanks, JT

That record was found after a month of renovating a turntable that had 78rpm capability. I never had that speed option before.
It also came the same week that her mom passed on (a year or so ago now), and at a time of heavy reflection. So, serendipity did rear its head here.

Runonce:
Talk about your player.
Take some pictures of the underpinnings - up the skirt shots. It might be worth bringing to life, it might be a gem. Or it might be a dog. I looked for any sort of similar deck in a google search of Ensign TT, and found nothing -  So its of unknown quantity/quality.
You can get the old idler wheels overhauled for $35'ish by a gent named Ed Crockett -- search: idler wheels Ed Crockett - hes one of few left that service them, and very well regarded. This is assuming that its an idler drive (but as old as you say, it likely is).
At any rate,... Shoot some pics, quality closeup macro, if you have that ability. I can take a look at it via pics and see if its worth doing anything with, or, if you need to move on, and can make some rec's.
Old Dual 1009 and 1019 are very worthy project decks, and aren't too far out of reach, yet (vintage decks are upwardly progressive in their pricing right now).

thanks mfrench - I may have one of those Dual models...will check.

I'll get some pictures of the Ensign shortly...

[runonce]

mfrench - Dual 1015? Pics to follow...

[mfrench]

If it has a heavy zinc(? I think its zinc; if not aluminum - heavy!) platter, and the round can motor - gem.
I'm sorry, but I'm not 100% up to speed on Dual, other than a couple of target models. The 1015 sounds right in there, doesn't it?!

[mfrench]

the 1015 looks to be of the right lineage.
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/1015.shtml
The deck should feel really heavy in the hand due to the platter weight.

[runonce]

the 1015 looks to be of the right lineage.
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/1015.shtml
The deck should feel really heavy in the hand due to the platter weight.

Put it to you this way - if I rotate the deck, the patter stays still! Its pretty heavy...here's the Ensign top view and the Dual - top and bottom. I'll get the back off the Ensign this evening...it's tube amp is humming like it has a dry cap - so I'll have to hook it to something else...Playing a modern LP, it seemed like its speed was ok, but it really wouldnt track, hopefully just needle gunk.

[mfrench]

that's your working deck then. The other can be a side project.
First - get it out of its guitar-body box plinth, and mount it to something solid like a stack of plywood, or, stone.
Idlers got a bad reputation for rumble brought out by the original plinth resonating the idler contact.
That can be drastically reduced by a massive plinth and minimizing the cutout pattern for it.

If its a sprung plinth, spring suspended - rebuild that part, and rigidly couple the top deck to a new base. Get rid of the springs.
The motor and bearing should be lubed as well. Fairly simple processes. Make sure that the wheel and the platter subsurface that it interfaces with are 100% clean.
If its the motor that I'm hoping to see, its considered one of the best turntable motors ever.

[dorrcoq]

South Central PA - middle of nowhere...or the middle of everywhere...near DC/philly/pitt/harrisburg/baltimore/

Very exciting project!  If it was me, even though it would be fun to do myself (or at least until I fucked them up  ), I would send them to Heath and get them done right.  Especially since he is in the Pittsburgh area, so not too far from you.

[splumer]

One thing that no one mentioned is that a lot of those discs will deteriorate with every pass of a stylus. Do them right, or have them done right, the first time, because it could be the only chance you get. Unfortunately, you're not in Cleveland, because a local college just opened a center in conjunction with the Rock Hall that *may* be able to transfer those. Another option is there's a radio show on a local college station that plays really old recordings of any genre. I've heard it a few times, and he's played wax cylinders, gramophones, all sorts of stuff, and he might know or be able to point you to someone who has the gear and expertise. If you're interested, I'll look into it for you.

[mfrench]

the shellac stuff is really quite hard. They'll break far sooner than wear out. DO NOT, or, DO NOT TRY TO FLEX SHELLAC. It will shatter. It should be handled and stored in such a way as to prevent any lateral flexing.
It can take passes with steel needles and tracking weights that graduate in half ounce steps.  ex: modern "needles" can be right on at 1.75 grams or broken in tenths of grams over that, in comparison. The tracking force loads for the classic cartridges, like a GE RPX is 8grams, and can go to 14grams without hurting the shellac record.  The later mono cartridges, like the GE VRII, started running at half the RPX load, at 4 grams, but thats still twice over modern carts. The RPX's were just a tad older and closer to the shellac era, and the VRII is closer to the 33/45 era, while still carrying the 78's range.
You can also get stanton/pickering and Shure cart/stylus that do 4 grams with 3mil needles for 78's

I'm not speaking of the homebrew discs with this, but the typical commercial grade shellacs can really be borne down on. I'd go with the more cautious 4gram tracking force for the rare family discs.

[runonce]

Ok - sorry to bump an old thead - still have this project in play - and its gotten even bigger.
Thanks again for all the upthread info and replies...

I never got anywhere with the Dual - and I wasn't able to get satisfactory signal from anything else...

In the meantime - I've found 3 more boxes of 10 and 12 inch discs of my grandfathers band, on various radio networks.

So I probably have over 200 discs now.

My great-grandfather - who made the recordings - was pretty good about lableing stuff - so most have Date, Network, Song List.
I've started compiling a little database of all the songs represented in this collection.

Just yesterday I scored a Webster-Chicago 3 speed turntable - with a nice looking Shure P76AF Rollover cartridge - missing its needles though.
And it wont power up - so I have to check where power is going - and not going - hopefully this will be an oxidized contact somewhere.
I have another vintage turntable from Stromberg-Carlson console to look at also - deep in the garage...

Are the black, solid plastic discs made of "lacquer" as well? I think I called them bakelite - just wondering which is correct?

And - It sounds like I shouldnt be afraid to clean the solid discs myself (with the proper solution)??
 - the lacquer coated aluminum, I might leave to a more experienced person.

Also - if I use vintage gear - Im assuming I should be using a Crystal phono pre stage?
I just cleaned up a nice old Claricon receiver that has both "X-TAL" and "MAGNETIC" phono inputs...so perhaps I can take a Tape Out from that device.

thanks again for the folks who replied upthread...!

[dorrcoq]

I had forgotten about your project.  Almost two years later, it's still pretty exciting to read about.

[chicofishhead]

This is an interesting thread to me because at Christmastime my mom and I were going through some old stuff she had collected from her parents' house.  We found a Wilcox-Gay Recordio disc.  The only labeling in indecipherable.  Online research reveals it's from around 1944.  I borrowed a friend's Crosley turntable that goes 78 and transfered the recording.  It's extremely scratchy, like it had been played many times.  One side sounds like a recording of a radio broadcast (possibly the beginning of a church show), and the other is really quiet, possibly someone sermonizing.  The only thing I can understand is someone saying "the end" a couple times right before it runs out.  I wish I could ask my grandparents what the significance of the disc is.