Topic: Need some help about buying external microphone.

[avrilfan]

Hello there. Its my first topic here and I hope I get any reply

Well, this summer I go record some live concerts from Avril Lavigne. I will use Zoom H2 recorder. Due to filesize limit, I will probably use 24bit / 48kHz recording mode. I have been trying out these build-in mics, but I believe there can be such better sound using some better external microphone. I am not sure whether such recordings are allowed or not, so I want to buy some stealth binaural microphones, like these for example:
http://www.audioreality.com/your_audioreality.htm
http://www.core-sound.com/mics/1.php
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2

Wanting the best possible quality, I am prepared to buy for about 100-200€, that is lets say about 150-300$. If you have any suggestions/comments I will be eternally grateful. And ofcourse I am not going to sell these recordings, will listen to them everyday and send them arround to all other Avril's fans.

Thanks in advance

[jkbyram]

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,90474.0.html

[manitouman]

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,90474.0.html

I'll second that! I've had nothing but great results with Church Audio gear. 

[avrilfan]

Thanks for replying.

I was also looking at this site ( http://www.audioreality.com/ ) and it really got my attention. What do you guys think of it ? Below there is also 2 examples.

[manitouman]

They probably are great mics. I started with Core Sound Binaurals that you have linked to in your first post. They are great mics, for the right application. I'm just assuming here, but I'm thinking that you won't just be taping one venue exclusively. There will be certain applications that would require a different mic. (I learned that here on these boards  ) The Church mics have interchangeable caps which appeals to me because in certain instances I would require a different mic: cardioid or omni. Omni-directional mics are what a binaural mic is. I've made incredible pulls in an outdoor venue with omnis. But they sound different while in indoor venues. Almost hollow sounding unless you are REALLY close to the sound source. Now that I know a little more about different mics and what to expect from them, I choose the interchangeable caps so that I can spend money on one good mic but have different options depending on the venue.

Hope that makes sense? 

...and +T for doing the research!

[GrandMasterMark]

I have that set of Audio Reatily binaural mics. They are my first and only set of mics. A few weeks back I had the opportunity to compare them to the MM-BSM-3 Standard Binaural Stereo Microphones from Microphone Madness.

I was taping an african drumming performance with Audio Reality Binaural> Audio Reality BB> R-09. There was another guy there with his mics set up right next to mine. He was using the ones listed above throu a battery box to a mini disc recorder. We compared during a break and his recording was noticably better. His pull was much richer. Mine sounded flat in comparison.

If size is an issue, the Audio Reality mics are much smaller. The mics themselves are about 1/4 the size of the others and the wires are much thinner. Easier to conceal for obvious reasons.

[avrilfan]

Thanks for the replies.
Well, for now, I like this http://www.audioreality.com/your_audioreality.htm microphones . So, are these audioreality microphones going to record better sound than the Zoom H2 internal mics ? If so, I will order them.

It might sound stupid question to someone, but I am not so familiar with recordings so far, just began to learn myself about these things.

[GrandMasterMark]

The Audio Reality mics with bb are much better than the internals on my R-09. They handle high much volume better and are better at processing the bass side of the recording.

[sunjan]

Well, for now, I like this http://www.audioreality.com/your_audioreality.htm microphones . So, are these audioreality microphones going to record better sound than the Zoom H2 internal mics ? If so, I will order them.

Audioreality are probably better than the internals, but for versatility you should really consider the Church Combo. Omnis might not work out at all your venues, depending on your seat location. With double set of caps, you can do a much broader range of venues.

And the Church pre is another advantage. I don't know how the input gain is on the H2 (check the separate thread on the H2 here), but with the Church pre you get an adjustable gain dial, whereas the audioreality bbox just powers the mics, nothing else.

Church also pointed out that the elements on the audioreality aren't shielded (or weren't back then at least):
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,79727.0.html
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,96894.0.html

I found an external link pointing out a few other concerns about the audioreality kit:
http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=20357

That said, I haven't heard any recordings done with these mics, and the guy making them seems to know what he's doing. They are cheap enough for experimenting with, so go ahead and order just to wet your feet. And post the results back here! 

[avrilfan]

Thanks for reply, I have read all.
About the concerts.

This time I will go to two shows of Avril Lavigne (so the same concerts). It will be vocals, acoustic and electric guitars, piano,drums... Both will be outside concerts. And how do you suggest me to choose the position ?
I will come very early, so I might be able to freely choose the position. And at one concert I have vip ticket, so I might be in the first/second row. So I just need to focus being on centre, or is at the side better ?

[jacobmyers]

 Where's the best position to record from? Dead F-ing Center and as far back from the stacks as they are apart (more or less).

 I know it's a bit snobbish, but there really are few things more annoying than an otherwise excellent recording that's damned from the start by piss-poor staging. The person running the soundboard, if they're actually doing their job, will have created a stereo mix that's designed to complement the backline. Can you guess where that stereo mix is going to sound best? Uh-huh...

 Get some earbuds (larger headphones aren't very "stealth") and listen for the sweet spot. It'll be slightly different for the microphones than it is for your ears. If you find it by ear, try moving a row closer to the stage. Seriously, though; use headphones!

 That said; best of luck with all of your recordings!

[gewwang]

For a show like Avril Lavigne, you have to take into account that many of the fans are going to be 13 year old girls screaming over the music and singing along out of key.

A stack tape, where SPL's might be louder than the bad singing, might be your best bet. I'd doubt Avril Lavigne's people even know what a stereo image means.

[sunjan]

This time I will go to two shows of Avril Lavigne (so the same concerts). It will be vocals, acoustic and electric guitars, piano,drums... Both will be outside concerts. And how do you suggest me to choose the position ?
I will come very early, so I might be able to freely choose the position. And at one concert I have vip ticket, so I might be in the first/second row. So I just need to focus being on centre, or is at the side better ?

Go with Jacob's advice. And bring mic windscreens for the outdoor shows.
if you're on row 1/2, there's hardly any way to avoid the crowd noise, but try to move away from the worst shouters at least, even if it means being off-center. Your stereo image won't be that great anyway, so i'd be more concerned about crowd noise, especially if you run omnis!
And it goes without saying that your setup will probably dist from the high SPL if you end up in front of a stack...

Good luck!

[avrilfan]

I just got some amazing recordings yesterday.

Stroj Machine
Wednesday, May 7, 2008
Skisova Trznica
Ljubljana, Slovenia (SI)

Location: Right Side, 1st row
Source: Zoom H2 (Internal Mics) > Zoom H2 @ 24bit / 48kHz > WAV > SD
Transfer: SD > Audiacity (edits & normalization) > FLAC level 8 (best) @ 16bit > .flac

http://212.235.177.59/d01t02.flac

As it says, I was in first row, at side where was a loud speaker right in front of me. I just targeted at it the whole time and this is amazing quality. I would be happy if you hear it and tell me your opinion.

I had low mic gain, recording at level 95, and the bars at some points got to ful (very loud bass). Might windshield fix it? But I am afraid that the internal mics just got overloaded.

Well, being able to record from 1st rows at both concerts, I am planning to do the same at Avril's concerts. So I might just buy some better little microphone, not pair, and target it at speakers again. Something like AT943. I am again open for suggestions and I would eternally be greatful for any good models. I am prepared to spend about 100-150€ (arround 150-225USD), or even up to 200€ (arround 300USD).

Edit: here in my country, they sell this mic: AT 831 R
Anyone can tell me if it would be a good choice? It says it costs 199€.

[jacobmyers]

For a show like Avril Lavigne, you have to take into account that many of the fans are going to be 13 year old girls screaming over the music and singing along out of key.

A stack tape, where SPL's might be louder than the bad singing, might be your best bet. I'd doubt Avril Lavigne's people even know what a stereo image means.

LMAO. I haven't been to a "tweenybopper" show in ...well... forever. I do my best to avoid shows with more than a few hundred relatively polite attendees, though, so Avril's quite a bit out of my idiom. I didn't even consider the presence of "offstage backing vocalists". Then again, at some of the shows I attend/record, the performer's interaction with the audience (and the unpredictability of such actions) is part of what makes the recordings worthwhile. When a singer jumps off the stage (if they were even on a stage to begin with) and offers the mic to members of the audience so they can sing lines of the song, it's always a good time (until the singer gets punched in the face). But that's another story and I'm still kicking myself for not bringing recording gear to that particular show...