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Author Topic: New Schoeps REDUCED pricing & U.S. Edition Stereo Sets are now discontinued  (Read 8977 times)

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Offline rokpunk

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Just got this email from my Schoeps distributor...thought it might be of interest to people. Email me if you are looking for something particular and I'll get you pricing.


Attention Schoeps Resellers,

Due to the recent rapid decline of the (€) Euro against the US Dollar we are issuing a
new Schoeps price list that reflects a REDUCTION in prices for all Schoeps products.
Please see the attached price lists dated June 8th, 2010. Only select Replacement Parts
on the Parts List reflect price changes.

Please note the following:
Any backordered items or unfilled orders we have on file will be invoiced at the
new lower price when delivered. It would be in your best interest to handle the
subsequent retail sale accordingly.

U.S. Edition Stereo Sets
All U.S. Edition Stereo Sets are now discontinued. As a result of the consistent
demand for all-inclusive stereo sets, Schoeps has decided to offer their own
stereo sets to the distribution network. These new sets are found on page 4 of
the Pro Net Price List. Our Mono Microphone Sets are unaffected by this and are
still offered.
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again, your showing your cluelessness.


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And rules all creation........

Offline johnw

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Not sure I follow on what is going on with stereo sets. The US stereo sets are being replaced with some other type of stereo set? Or due to high demand for stereo sets they are going to stop selling them?
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Offline dennisrtyler

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Not sure I follow on what is going on with stereo sets. The US stereo sets are being replaced with some other type of stereo set? Or due to high demand for stereo sets they are going to stop selling them?
i believe the stereo sets were put together by US distributors. now schoeps will put them together themselves and send out to distributors. ???
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Offline boojum

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I am confused on the "stereo set" deal, too.  They used to say, "US Stereo Set" and it still does at Posthorn.  Jerry has not changed his prices since April of this year.  Wow!  That Euro must be dropping like a rock.  That would not hurt my feelings much.  We all took it in the shorts as it went up.

Nov schmoz kapop.

Offline rokpunk

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Not sure I follow on what is going on with stereo sets. The US stereo sets are being replaced with some other type of stereo set? Or due to high demand for stereo sets they are going to stop selling them?



Where is the confusion?

"As a result of the consistent demand for all-inclusive stereo sets, Schoeps has decided to offer their own stereo sets to the distribution network"
The new and improved taperssection.com....now with freedom of speech without the repercussion of -T's!



again, your showing your cluelessness.


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And rules all creation........

Offline su6oxone

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I'd be curious to see what a new set of CCM41 Lg matched will run for now, previously it was about $4500...

Offline johnw

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Not sure I follow on what is going on with stereo sets. The US stereo sets are being replaced with some other type of stereo set? Or due to high demand for stereo sets they are going to stop selling them?



Where is the confusion?

"As a result of the consistent demand for all-inclusive stereo sets, Schoeps has decided to offer their own stereo sets to the distribution network"

The confusion came from the fact that stereo sets have been sold in the US since at least the 1990s and these are apparently being discontinued and replaced with another stereo set that will be also be sold in the US. I didn't realize that US stereo sets were put together by US importers and were not assembled as such by the Schoeps factory. Since all US stereo sets came in a fancy Schoeps box that looks like it was assembled at the factory, I didn't realize until now that this was not the case. I am still curious as to what difference (if any) exists between the stereo sets.
Schoeps MK41 & MK4V  |  Schoeps CMC6, Schoeps KCY, AKI/2C, PFA, Nbox Cable/PFA  |  Grace V2, Nbox Platinum  |  SD744T, SD MixPre 6, Sony PCM M10

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Offline mountaintaper

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Most stuff still way overpriced...but the prices are a lot better

http://www.reddingaudio.com/schoeps/Schoeps%20US%20ProNet%20Price%20List%206-8-10.pdf

Offline StuStu

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Most stuff still way overpriced...but the prices are a lot better

http://www.reddingaudio.com/schoeps/Schoeps%20US%20ProNet%20Price%20List%206-8-10.pdf


They have dropped. I never thought I'd see that.
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Offline darktrain

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Actually looks like a pretty nice drop in price 10% or better, CMR's anyone  ;D

Offline jlykos

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Wow!  That Euro must be dropping like a rock.  That would not hurt my feelings much.  We all took it in the shorts as it went up.

Euro reached its lowest point in four years today.  Depending on what happens in Greece, it may drop even lower.  If anybody was ever sitting on the fence about getting a nice set of Scheops, Neumanns, or Gefells, now is definitely the time to buy.  Denmark uses the Kroner so I don't know if dpa is affected; I haven't checked the exchange rate.
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Offline sparkey

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Wow!  That Euro must be dropping like a rock.  That would not hurt my feelings much.  We all took it in the shorts as it went up.

Euro reached its lowest point in four years today.  Depending on what happens in Greece, it may drop even lower.  If anybody was ever sitting on the fence about getting a nice set of Scheops, Neumanns, or Gefells, now is definitely the time to buy.  Denmark uses the Kroner so I don't know if dpa is affected; I haven't checked the exchange rate.

Fuckin' A....I may have to make it to the Cup in Holland this November :-)
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Offline rokpunk

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Not sure I follow on what is going on with stereo sets. The US stereo sets are being replaced with some other type of stereo set? Or due to high demand for stereo sets they are going to stop selling them?



Where is the confusion?

"As a result of the consistent demand for all-inclusive stereo sets, Schoeps has decided to offer their own stereo sets to the distribution network"

The confusion came from the fact that stereo sets have been sold in the US since at least the 1990s and these are apparently being discontinued and replaced with another stereo set that will be also be sold in the US. I didn't realize that US stereo sets were put together by US importers and were not assembled as such by the Schoeps factory. Since all US stereo sets came in a fancy Schoeps box that looks like it was assembled at the factory, I didn't realize until now that this was not the case. I am still curious as to what difference (if any) exists between the stereo sets.

i see...
well, as you have figured out, the stereo sets were put together by the few distributors that schoeps has in the states.
i guess the company saw a demand for "matched pairs", and figured they'd fill the gap. i personally don't see the need for my mics to be factory matched, but i guess to some people, it's a big deal and something they go out of their way to get. i just need my pairs of mics to sound alike to my ears. i don't need a piece of paper from the factory to prove that the company has good quality control.
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again, your showing your cluelessness.


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Offline StuStu

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I think that the type of recording that MOST people do on this board, that it does matter. If I'm taping a live show with 2 mics for a stereo recording, I want them to be similarly matched. Right?
MK5, MK8, MK41, KM184D, CK77, B3 ---CMD 2U XT, KC5, KCY, AKI---KCY Tinybox, Ugly BB---AETA 4MinX, PMD661 MKII, R-26, M-10, MR-1

Offline sparkey

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I think that the type of recording that MOST people do on this board, that it does matter. If I'm taping a live show with 2 mics for a stereo recording, I want them to be similarly matched. Right?

I talked to a guy who bought 2 U89's from different sellers on Ebay...I think he took them over to Sonic Sense for testing and they were pretty much spot on identical in terms of performance.  What is considered a substantial difference in unmatched mic pairs?
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Offline jlykos

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I think that the type of recording that MOST people do on this board, that it does matter. If I'm taping a live show with 2 mics for a stereo recording, I want them to be similarly matched. Right?

If the manufacturer has good quality control, they should be evenly matched right out of the gate.  Microtech Gefell did not offer matched pairs when I purchased my set because they said that their manufacturing process is so closely toleranced that there would not be a difference.  I remember that there were problems with some of the Chinese and Russian microphones when tapers started to adopt them so matched pairs became necessary with those.

Personally, I feel that if you are buying dpa, Schoeps, Neumann, Gefell, AKG, MBHO, or something like that, the piece of paper that says that they are a matched pair is more for peace of mind than anything else.  I certainly wouldn't pay a premium for it.
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Offline rokpunk

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I think that the type of recording that MOST people do on this board, that it does matter. If I'm taping a live show with 2 mics for a stereo recording, I want them to be similarly matched. Right?

Shouldn't the manufacturer have strict enough QC that all their mics sound virtually the same? When I buy 2 SM58's, I don't need to buy a "matched pair" of them to get 2 that sound alike, in fact, if I buy 20 of them, they all sound virtually identical to my ears.....and we are talking about an $89 SM58, not a $1500 Neumann. If you want to spend the extra money to get a certification from the factory, that certainly is your prerogative, I'm just saying that IMNSFHO, it's a waste of money.
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again, your showing your cluelessness.


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And rules all creation........

Offline StuStu

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I agree that an expensive pair of mics should and often do have enough quality control to be closely matched without having a certificate saying so. For me, $50 (Schoeps price for matching) is worth it for resale purposes as well.
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Offline John Willett

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I talked to a guy who bought 2 U89's from different sellers on Ebay...I think he took them over to Sonic Sense for testing and they were pretty much spot on identical in terms of performance.  What is considered a substantial difference in unmatched mic pairs?

Neumann do not normally do matched pairs at all as their QC is so tight that they are all very close.

A Neumann "stereoset" would be consecutively serial numbered.

Though Neumann will pair-match on special request, I think, but it's chargeable.

I did hear recently of someone who had to check a batch of Neumann mics for a broadcaster - found that the maximum difference between the best" and "worst" was 0.5dB - that's a lot tighter than most "matched pairs" would be.  ;D

Offline DSatz

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The issue of matched pairs of microphones often gets caught up in people's confusion between "ought" and "is."

If you want to compare two hi-fi amplifiers seriously, first you need to match their gain within some smallish fraction of a dB (certainly less than 0.5 dB)--otherwise, people tend to hear sonic differences that are real enough, but which disappear when the gains are matched more closely. Such small differences in loudness (or frequency response) are rarely perceived consciously in terms of loudness (or frequency response); instead, if people hear a difference, they perceive it in terms of sound quality. Experimentally this has occurred with loudness or frequency response differences as small as 0.1-0.2 dB in some cases. Of course, by then the supposed differences in sound quality are also quite subtle. But if you want to eliminate bias, these variables need to be controlled down to (as I said) smallish fractions of a dB.

Now take that well-understood set of circumstances and apply them to what we're talking about here. The very best manufacturers generally give tolerance limits of maybe ±1.5 dB for the frequency response of their microphones relative to their published curves, and a further ±1.5 dB or so for their sensitivity.

We're talking about devices that turn one kind of energy into another, not an amplifier which is purely electronic--so having such narrow tolerances is quite an accomplishment (and quite an improvement over, say, the 1960s or before). But such tolerances are a whole order of magnitude greater than the point at which differences cease to affect our impressions of sound quality.

This is especially relevant to those of us who use coincident and closely-spaced microphone setups, since the stereo impression is based on rather fine differences in amplitude, frequency and phase response between the two microphones of a pair. Human hearing is extremely sensitive to the differences between what our two ears pick up. There are sonic defects (e.g. phase distortion) that have little or no subjective impact as long as they're equal between the two channels of a system, but those same defects can become quite significant if they differ between the channels. We want the differences between the signals of the two microphones to result solely from their positions and angles within the sound field; we don't want them to result from response differences between the microphones. Such differences just throw garbage information into the stereo recording unless you can compensate for them somehow.

As a result, I really do recommend (and personally prefer) selected, matched pairs of capsules for two-microphone stereo recording, or for any recordings in which the main pickup is made with a coincident or closely-spaced pair. And personally I can hardly respect a manufacturer that claims to be so consistent in their production that special matching isn't needed, since such claims are simply not supported by the facts.

--best regards
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 08:25:12 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Shouldn't the manufacturer have strict enough QC that all their mics sound virtually the same? When I buy 2 SM58's, I don't need to buy a "matched pair" of them to get 2 that sound alike, in fact, if I buy 20 of them, they all sound virtually identical to my ears.....and we are talking about an $89 SM58, not a $1500 Neumann. If you want to spend the extra money to get a certification from the factory, that certainly is your prerogative, I'm just saying that IMNSFHO, it's a waste of money.

Welch and Rawlings switched their stage amplification rig in 1996 from pickups and DIs to external microphones. Rawlings explains that the change has made setting up for shows easier, although they do need to be a bit more hands-on during setup than they used to be. "We carry Shure SM-58s and SM-57s," Welch says. "Fancy microphones can be very difficult. The one thing that’s nice about the Shures is that their quality control is low enough that they are all different. They’re like snowflakes. If we carry a complement of eight microphones, we can go into a hall and find the right one for the room and the system. We play the microphone game; we swap them out."

http://www.acguitar.com/issues/ag76/gear76.shtml

stevetoney

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I think that the type of recording that MOST people do on this board, that it does matter. If I'm taping a live show with 2 mics for a stereo recording, I want them to be similarly matched. Right?

To my thinking, it seems like it would be fairly subjective to the specific recording environment. 

While I think that your point Stustu is that most people on this board do stereo location recording, my thinking is that most people on this board wouldn't need matching because of the imperfect nature of the live location recording setting that adds to the wart-factor of virtually 100% of location recordings, save the very rare situation (in my experiences anyway) where we might have full control of the live recording environment.

My thoughts go kinda like...if there's tons of echo, the PA is poorly mixed, the bartender is screaming at his customers, and a teenie bopper is talking on her phone, why should I care if the stereo imaging is slightly skewed from reality because my mics aren't matched.  It has no bearing to my evaluation of whether or not the recording is a good quality reproduction of a music performance (IOW, I've never heard anyone say...the recording sounds great but it really is ruined by the image shift of the drums from dead center to slightly left of center).  That said, I do understand the desire that people have for accuracy through matching for situations where these warts don't exist...it's just that it seems like overkill to me for what 95% or more of the recording that most on this board do.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 08:45:11 PM by tonedeaf »

Offline SClassical

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Is there such thing as a matched pair of Schoeps MK5 capsules? I heard from someone that any capsule with pattern switch on it cannot be matched because if you match one pattern you cannot match the other. So does that mean whenever you run a pair of MK5s you are never running a matched pair of mics? Seems strange that we prefer to run a matched pair of MK4s 21s or 2s but when we run MK5s we're not picky.
Mics: DPA3552 kit/DPA3521 kit/DPA SMK4081 kit/DPA SMK4060 kit/Schoeps 2X MK21, 2X MK22 and 2X MK4v and 2X Schoeps CCM2S
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Recorders: SD722/PCM-D50/MT2
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Seems strange that we prefer to run a matched pair of MK4s 21s or 2s but when we run MK5s we're not picky.

Schoepsford.

stevetoney

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Seems strange that we prefer to run a matched pair of MK4s 21s or 2s but when we run MK5s we're not picky.


Good point.  Two thoughts and comments. 

a) I'd think that Schoeps could match the MK5 in one or the other positions, but of course then they'd have to specify which position that is and state that the other position is not matched.  That might get confusing and cause more issues that it's worth for Schoeps.

b) There's been a decent amount of discussion about the merits of matching and generally people on ts.com have been in favor.  While I don't care one way or the other, the main problem I have with the concept is that it seems like many people feel that an unmatched pair aren't worth buying or are an inferior product.  I've countered how I believe that for live taping, which most on this board do, matching is mostly overkill because of the myriad of variables that we cannot control in the live music setting.  My point in this is to state that, if Schoeps doesn't bother offering matching on the MK5 in either position, it IMHO supports this contention that unmatched capsules are in no way an inferior product...but that matching is just a 'nice to have' service that Schoeps offers to those consumers that really need a matched pair and since matching the MK5s might get confusing, their position is not to offer it on those capsules.

Offline DSatz

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scyue, what you heard is simply not correct. Other folks, there's no need to speculate about the implications of the statement when it's not true to begin with.

MK 5 capsules and CCM 5 compact microphones are available as matched pairs from Schoeps. For that matter, when the MK 6 three-pattern capsule was still being made, it, too, was available in matched pairs on request.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

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Offline SClassical

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Anyone know where I can get the European price list for Schoeps? I can only find the US pricelist online. Anyone have the new European price list?
Mics: DPA3552 kit/DPA3521 kit/DPA SMK4081 kit/DPA SMK4060 kit/Schoeps 2X MK21, 2X MK22 and 2X MK4v and 2X Schoeps CCM2S
Mixers/preamps: Sonosax SX-M32/Sonosax SX-M2 LS/Grace Design V3/DPA MMA6000/Millennia HV-32P
Recorders: SD722/PCM-D50/MT2
Playback: Grace m903 - Sennheiser HD650 / Bowers & Wilkins Nautilus 805s

Offline DSatz

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Now that we've gotten over the side conversation about marketing claims that some people apparently would like to believe are factual ("our manufacturing techniques are so advanced that specific pair matching isn't necessary"), let's get back to the stereo sets.

I just wanted to mention that almost exactly the same thing happened with Neumann a few years ago: The U.S. distributor (Neumann wholly owns their U.S. distributor, unlike Schoeps) had been assembling and selling stereo sets of their small-diaphragm microphones themselves for a number of years under the watchful eye of the home office. Then the home office looked at the numbers and decided to assemble and sell the sets themselves.

In addition to increasing the profit for the home office, this resulted in improved pair matching in some cases. Neumann's U.S. distributor has no acoustical measurement facility and isn't equipped to select and match capsules for the stereo sets. They could have ordered matched capsule pairs specially from Germany, but they didn't do so. Now the capsules in some of the sets assembled by Neumann in Germany--including the small-diaphragm models--are selected, matched pairs.

Schoeps doesn't own Redding Audio, the U.S. distributor which also distibutes Rycote and several other brands over here. (rokpunk please note--there is only one distributor per country or region; the rest are dealers.) But the stereo sets assembled by Redding Audio have always used selected, matched pairs of capsules; Schoeps has openly made matched capsule pairs available for years now, so that's what Redding was using even though it cost more.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 09:40:53 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

 

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