Topic: Tinybox: which mics make a good match?

[sunjan]

I've been eyeing the Tinybox, but most threads involve Schoeps = $$$$.

Are there any other mics that make a suitable match?
Form factor would have to be reasonably stealthy, there's not much point going for a tinybox for open taping.

Given that I already have a 3-wire CA-9100, and happy to run my AT853s with it, I assume that there are some (better) mics that the 9100 can't drive due to voltage or other issues. Which?

What about mics that require phantom power in general? Let's take a mic where the specs say "Phantom power: 24 - 48V" (in my case a Line Audio CM3, http://www.lineaudio.se/linemicdata.htm)
There's no way I could power these with a Tinybox, right?

[fmaderjr]

It doesn't look that way. 16 volts is the max.
From Naiant site:
tinybox Specifications:
Type: two-channel microphone amplifier with high-current output
Phantom Power: +16V supplied across 1.65KΩ resistors or +12V supplied across 680Ω resistors, 14mA maximum current per microphone

[page]

Off the top of my head I'd say the AKG 460/480 set (runs 11-52v) and the beyerdynamic ck/mc 900 series which are the same voltage reqs.

[tcf]

Nevaton mc 49 are supposed to run off of 12-48 volt power.

[John Willett]

MBHO microphones are a good alternative to Schoeps and, I would say, equal in quality but very reasonable priced.

The spec. says 16-48V phantom, so would work from the 16V of the Tinybox.

I hope this helps.

[JasonSobel]

Off the top of my head I'd say the AKG 460/480 set (runs 11-52v) and the beyerdynamic ck/mc 900 series which are the same voltage reqs.

With the beyerdynamic CK930's, I believe that Jon could make you a tinybox that would power the caps directly, and then you'd have an even smaller setup.  The caps need +48v polarization voltage, and if I recall correctly, the tinybox can provide that (though not +48v phantom, because the available current at 48 v is too small for phantom power, but suitable to power the caps directly).  There is already one user who has a littlebox made to power the beyerdynamic caps directly, but I believe that a tinybox is capable of the same.  check with Jon to be 100% sure.

[bluelawn]

my Milabs (VM-44 Links) seem to have no issue with the lower power setting on my littlebox

[audBall]

Phantom Power: +16V supplied across 1.65KΩ resistors or +12V supplied across 680Ω resistors, 14mA maximum current per microphone

Would a 600Ω output mic would match well with the 12V version, assuming its powering requirements are met?

[sunjan]

With the beyerdynamic CK930's, I believe that Jon could make you a tinybox that would power the caps directly, and then you'd have an even smaller setup.

That's definitely interesting. Are the capsules for sale individually anywhere, or would I still have to buy the kit with the phantom adapter?

For the other mics with separate phantom adapter, like the VM44 Link or my AT853Rx: IIUC, I'd still be running the mics with the phantom adapters in the chain, right? So I'd get a custom Y-cable between the adapters and the Tinybox, is that correct?

[JasonSobel]

With the beyerdynamic CK930's, I believe that Jon could make you a tinybox that would power the caps directly, and then you'd have an even smaller setup.

That's definitely interesting. Are the capsules for sale individually anywhere, or would I still have to buy the kit with the phantom adapter?

If you contact a beyerdynamic dealer, you can probably get them to place a special order for just the capsules (either the CK930 cardioid, or the CK950 supercardioid capsules).

[OOK]

MBHO microphones are a good alternative to Schoeps and, I would say, equal in quality but very reasonable priced.

The spec. says 16-48V phantom, so would work from the 16V of the Tinybox.

I hope this helps.

maybe the 603/603A's are but the 648/648A's are a straight 48V.

[nicegrin]

I use the tinybox with my Beyers (CK930) with great results. Love the tinybox! I actually have 2 of them!

[tcf]

Nicegrin, canu give some info on your miniplug mce 400s. Can these be run off the tinybox?

[OOK]

I use the tinybox with my Beyers (CK930) with great results. Love the tinybox! I actually have 2 of them!

Could you clarify.....is this the mic caps>cable>mic body>tinybox

or is it

mic caps>cable>tiny box     no mic bodies  ? 


Peace OOK

[page]

With the beyerdynamic CK930's, I believe that Jon could make you a tinybox that would power the caps directly, and then you'd have an even smaller setup.

That's definitely interesting. Are the capsules for sale individually anywhere, or would I still have to buy the kit with the phantom adapter?

If you contact a beyerdynamic dealer, you can probably get them to place a special order for just the capsules (either the CK930 cardioid, or the CK950 supercardioid capsules).

I was told no from a couple of places when I picked up the 950s; kits only per the american beyer office.  I honestly wish you better luck and encourage you to call, maybe you'll get a different answer. The bummer is the components have a price structure similar to neumann where the caps are $$ and the bodies are cheap. To compound matters, they will sell the bodies separately (a set of bodies is like $250usd), but not the caps.  Now, supposedly you can call the German office (and/or dealer in Germany) and they will do it, but you have to deal with someone there specifically and it wasn't worth it to me for the cost of the bodies.

Also, be careful about anything outside of what your preferred vendor has in stock or the US distributor has in stock cause it then has to come from HQ. When I special ordered my 930s (had them matched in Germany), it took an additional month, so I was out like 6 weeks or so from order to carry. I've been told today that my 950s will show up at the US distributor in the first week of February, and I'll have them in hand around Valentines Day, 7 months after ordering. (again, matched, same seller) 

If I was going do it over again and try and skimp on bodies, I'd do it on the 930s since I think they make more of them and more often, and pick up the bodies on the 950s which it seems tougher to find standard sets for sale. I'd even be tempted to take whatever the US distributor had in hand for the 950s and just live with it.

//slightly salty.

I use the tinybox with my Beyers (CK930) with great results. Love the tinybox! I actually have 2 of them!

Could you clarify.....is this the mic caps>cable>mic body>tinybox

or is it

mic caps>cable>tiny box     no mic bodies  ? 

It can be set either way. I don't know if you can do both (as settings) on a single box though, that is something that may have to be specified when you order one (either/or). Jon can elaborate on that.

[sunjan]

Could you clarify.....is this the mic caps>cable>mic body>tinybox
or is it
mic caps>cable>tiny box     no mic bodies  ? 

It can be set either way.

Are there any advantages (sonically or otherwise) including the mic bodies in the chain? No bodies is obviously easier from a stealth point of view, and cheaper too, provided you can get hold of individual caps.

[Roger Gustavsson]

Sunjan,

Do you know that the Line Audio CM3 got a very positive review by Ljudtekniska Sällskapet?

Roger

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Nicegrin, canu give some info on your miniplug mce 400s. Can these be run off the tinybox?

That is interesting. I was under the impression that there are some electronics inside the XLR. I guess you could replicate them somewhere if you could figure out what was going on in there.

I may have to look into the CK930's if you can just buy the caps. I'd like to have a card setup for stealth.

[page]

Could you clarify.....is this the mic caps>cable>mic body>tinybox
or is it
mic caps>cable>tiny box     no mic bodies  ? 

It can be set either way.

Are there any advantages (sonically or otherwise) including the mic bodies in the chain?

No idea really, sorry.

I may have to look into the CK930's if you can just buy the caps. I'd like to have a card setup for stealth.

I encourage everyone interested to pester beyerdynamic about it. I got shot down, but if enough people bitch about it maybe they will do it. Worth a try at any rate. 

[audBall]

Phantom Power: +16V supplied across 1.65KΩ resistors or +12V supplied across 680Ω resistors, 14mA maximum current per microphone

Would a 600Ω output mic would match well with the 12V version, assuming its powering requirements are met?

It should work OK, the input impedance of the P12 version is typical of mic preamps, although I prefer higher as with the 16V version.  Note that for condenser mics, you generally do *not* want to match impedance, you mostly just lose level that way.  Also note that the input impedance of the P12 version is not 680, it is more like 1.2K.

Would the 16V version be a better match, or not really make a difference?  The voltage isn't an issue with my mics as they operate on 9-48V.

[sunjan]

audBall, are you talking about running your Nak cm1000 with Tinybox? Just trying to follow the conversation. Given that they accept 9V, couldn't you also power them with a Church pre, or are there issues preventing that?

Roger, thanks for the headsup. Is the review avaialble online anywhere, or just in print (Musik & Ljudteknik)?

BTW, dropped a line to Beyer in Germany, but they wouldn't talk to me, just referred me to my local distributor.

[audBall]

The 1000's are condensers and accept phantom powering.  They probably could run off Church pre as their original power supplies used a 9V battery.  Since they've been modified to accept phantom power, I'd like to stay in that realm. 

[nicegrin]

audBall, are you talking about running your Nak cm1000 with Tinybox? Just trying to follow the conversation. Given that they accept 9V, couldn't you also power them with a Church pre, or are there issues preventing that?

Roger, thanks for the headsup. Is the review avaialble online anywhere, or just in print (Musik & Ljudteknik)?

BTW, dropped a line to Beyer in Germany, but they wouldn't talk to me, just referred me to my local distributor.

I actually got in touch with Beyerdynamic in the same matter, to buy caps for the ck9X0-series. It was a very messy experience.
I actually managed to get a good price for the caps but when they arrived it turned out to be a mixup from Beyerdynamic and they sent me
the MC caps instead of the CK caps (even though I asked for the CKs and the invoice was for the CKs!).
I addressed the problem and sent the capsules back hoping to just have them replaced with the CK version I originally ordered. When they realized the mistake however they also quoted me a new price for the caps (almost twice as much as for the MC caps) and the price was so close to the price for a complete CK9X0 set with bodies, cables etc. so I decided to cancel the order and got a full refund. I´d say that trying to find cheap caps for this series is a dead end. Better to buy a complete set instead!

/Nicegrin
 

[Roger Gustavsson]

Roger, thanks for the headsup. Is the review avaialble online anywhere, or just in print (Musik & Ljudteknik)?

Just in print in Musik & Ljudteknik, issue 3/2010. Most swedish libaries use ta have that magazine. Other microphones in the test, DPA 5090, Sennheise MKH20, Sennheiser MKH8020 and Earthworks QTC1. Eleven A4 pages in all.

Roger

[sunjan]

Just for fun, I wrote to Beyerdynamic in Germany and a few retailers in different countries, just to compare.

Since they wouldn't ship abroad, I asked for a hypotethic price quote assuming I lived in the country.
For one single CK930 capsule, Germany quoted me EUR 184.87 + 19% sales tax = US $294. The sales rep there is called Thomas Gentner.
For the same item, a retailer in Singapore (Peak Fusion) quoted me SGD 599 incl sales tax = US $465
I'm still waiting for replies from the US retailers...

So, at least those living in Germany could get this "capsule rig" together at a reasonable price. Maybe there's even a way to recoup the sales tax if you find an EU retailer willing to ship overseas?

As a comparison, the kit (capsule + cable + remote pre + clamp) can be found for US $669:
http://sweetwaveaudio.com/sales/microphones/960-beyerdynamic-ck-930-38q-set.html

For those interested in digging further, the part number for the capsule is 906913.

[nicegrin]

Sad to say but seems that beyerdynamic is AGAIN screwing this up! The price and the serial number you refer to Sunjan is NOT for the complete CK930 capsule (which concists of 3 parts (capsule + grid tube + attenuator).
The correct price and serial number for the complete capsule is:

serial number 490806 and the price is euro 294,12 (without tax!) and euro 350.0 WITH tax.

The info + price you got is for the MC capsule not the CK!

so for about $470 you can get one capsule from Beyerdynamic!  Since that is about 70% of the price for a complete set with capsules+cables+bodies+mount I don´t think it´s such a great deal anymore...

ADD: if you want matched capsules the matching cost is + 20% so about $565 per capsule!


/Nicegrin

Just for fun, I wrote to Beyerdynamic in Germany and a few retailers in different countries, just to compare.

Since they wouldn't ship abroad, I asked for a hypotethic price quote assuming I lived in the country.
For one single CK930 capsule, Germany quoted me EUR 184.87 + 19% sales tax = US $294. The sales rep there is called Thomas Gentner.
For the same item, a retailer in Singapore (Peak Fusion) quoted me SGD 599 incl sales tax = US $465
I'm still waiting for replies from the US retailers...

So, at least those living in Germany could get this "capsule rig" together at a reasonable price. Maybe there's even a way to recoup the sales tax if you find an EU retailer willing to ship overseas?

As a comparison, the kit (capsule + cable + remote pre + clamp) can be found for US $669:
http://sweetwaveaudio.com/sales/microphones/960-beyerdynamic-ck-930-38q-set.html

For those interested in digging further, the part number for the capsule is 906913.

[F.O.Bean]

What a ripoff

[ninjadave]

can the MILABs VM44 Links be run the same way as the Beyer CK930's with new version of the tinybox and taking out the bodies in the chain with a special cable? they will run with min 12v phantom no? seems everyone raves about these mics as well but would like a low profile solution with no bodies (if so, would be a tough decision whether to go with Beyers or Milabs, although Beyers are a little shorter and might sit a little better in my Kangol).

also, someone asked but i did not see an answer, NICEGRIN has a modded MCE400's with miniplug (without bodies i presume). that is a very interesting mod as well i would be intersted in as these omnis are also highly regarded (and more directional than most omnis) even with the minor faults they have (match issues and such i've read about). thanks for any input, i'm so trying to find an upgrade solution to CA-14s and those types of mics but one that i can stealth with without totally crushing my bank account. thanks again for any input.