Topic: Flattest Low Pro Omni's ?

[Chuck]

Yeah, I did some listening on a pair of Sennheiser HD 280 PRO's.

[adrianf74]

@Gutbucket: The +4dB bright grids are a little punchier/crunchier on paper than the 4061's so I'd tend to agree that they'll sound a little less smooth than the 4061's with soft-boost grids.   

Impressive how you can characterize how the mics will sound from just looking at their frequency response curves...

I did own the 4061's for about 9 months are recorded numerous shows with them so I can say this based on experience. 

[aaronji]

@Gutbucket: The +4dB bright grids are a little punchier/crunchier on paper than the 4061's so I'd tend to agree that they'll sound a little less smooth than the 4061's with soft-boost grids.   

Impressive how you can characterize how the mics will sound from just looking at their frequency response curves...

I did own the 4061's for about 9 months are recorded numerous shows with them so I can say this based on experience. 

OK, but you were specifically comparing the characteristics of the B3s to the 4061s, and you have never used the B3s...That comparison, in your words, was "on paper"...

I've since switched to Countryman Associates B3's but haven't had a chance to run mine yet due to some personal circumstances which suck. 

[illconditioned]

I've used DPA 4060, B3 and MCE400.  The B3 and MCE400 just sound "more natural" to my ears, regardless of the exact frequency response, grids, etc.  The DPA have great detail and sound realistic, but if you listen to music, they just don't sound pleasant for me.

Hey, if those DPA4060 sounded so good, we'd never use the (Nickel) 4006 or the Geffel MK221 would we?  It might be something to do with the diaphragm (stainless steel in the B3 and Nevaton).  Or it might be that the DPA4060 is distorting somehow (at higher frequencies).

Years ago I bought the DPA4060 thinking "my search is over".  But I was wrong, there are better mics out there...

  Richard

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I've used DPA 4060, B3 and MCE400.  The B3 and MCE400 just sound "more natural" to my ears, regardless of the exact frequency response, grids, etc.  The DPA have great detail and sound realistic, but if you listen to music, they just don't sound pleasant for me.

Hey, if those DPA4060 sounded so good, we'd never use the (Nickel) 4006 or the Geffel MK221 would we?  It might be something to do with the diaphragm (stainless steel in the B3 and Nevaton).  Or it might be that the DPA4060 is distorting somehow (at higher frequencies).

Years ago I bought the DPA4060 thinking "my search is over".  But I was wrong, there are better mics out there...

  Richard

Ditto. Exact same story here, except only the 4060's and MCE400's for me.

Thinking about picking up the B3's too...just to see if I like them better.

[George]

@Gutbucket: The +4dB bright grids are a little punchier/crunchier on paper than the 4061's so I'd tend to agree that they'll sound a little less smooth than the 4061's with soft-boost grids.   

Impressive how you can characterize how the mics will sound from just looking at their frequency response curves...

I did own the 4061's for about 9 months are recorded numerous shows with them so I can say this based on experience. 

OK, but you were specifically comparing the characteristics of the B3s to the 4061s, and you have never used the B3s...That comparison, in your words, was "on paper"...

I've since switched to Countryman Associates B3's but haven't had a chance to run mine yet due to some personal circumstances which suck. 

Right, but he's listened to samples, including some that I sent him.   Seems reasonable to me that Adrian compared the B3 samples to recordings he's made with his previously owned DPA's. 

Here's some of the samples I shared with Adrian:

Tift Merritt opening for Joseph Arthur at City Winery NYC:

http://www.mediafire.com/?novybbua0a34kna

Joseph Arthur at City Winery NYC:

http://www.mediafire.com/?25c3o5q67d817z3
http://www.mediafire.com/?54i4vwx33v7dewr
http://www.mediafire.com/?kwy52j1xg5ijhjh
http://www.mediafire.com/?6gb6oy47ubwblv9

Keb Mo at BB King's, NYC:
http://www.mediafire.com/?o1iud0s1qkkf6j5
http://www.mediafire.com/?5e4qajl1dupao05

Ed Roland & Kevin Griffin at (yes, again!) City Winery:

http://www.mediafire.com/?5f7h85m8a7d5b6m

Alan Doyle (I know, it's like a broken record) at City Winery:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ji1akriervhsn78
http://www.mediafire.com/?chuqef99hhqv07u

Edit:  Slightly off-topic, this is the reason why I like the at853 sub-cards so much (minus the little click): 

Here's a sample mp3 of Dominic Farinacci performing at the Zinc Bar during this past Winter Jazz Festival:  http://www.mediafire.com/?z5bd29r8lcn3s85

[aaronji]

Right, but he's listened to samples, including some that I sent him.   Seems reasonable to me that Adrian compared the B3 samples to recordings he's made with his previously owned DPA's. 

Perhaps, but that's not what he wrote...Besides, how well can you make a mic comparison based on a few samples?  Too many variables involved to really draw any valid conclusions...In any event, I was just jerking his chain a bit (seriously, "crunchier on paper"?)...

Are your samples with the flat or 4 dB grids? 

I've used DPA 4060, B3 and MCE400.  The B3 and MCE400 just sound "more natural" to my ears, regardless of the exact frequency response, grids, etc.  The DPA have great detail and sound realistic, but if you listen to music, they just don't sound pleasant for me.

Hey, if those DPA4060 sounded so good, we'd never use the (Nickel) 4006 or the Geffel MK221 would we?  It might be something to do with the diaphragm (stainless steel in the B3 and Nevaton).  Or it might be that the DPA4060 is distorting somehow (at higher frequencies).

Years ago I bought the DPA4060 thinking "my search is over".  But I was wrong, there are better mics out there...

  Richard

I am shocked to hear you say that, Richard.  SHOCKED, I tell you!

But the 4006/MK221 comparison isn't really fair.  None of these small omnis have a chance against that level of competition...

[George]

Right, but he's listened to samples, including some that I sent him.   Seems reasonable to me that Adrian compared the B3 samples to recordings he's made with his previously owned DPA's. 

Perhaps, but that's not what he wrote...Besides, how well can you make a mic comparison based on a few samples?  Too many variables involved to really draw any valid conclusions...In any event, I was just jerking his chain a bit (seriously, "crunchier on paper"?)...

Are your samples with the flat or 4 dB grids? 

I often read experienced tapers instructing newbies to go check the archive to listen to samples to compare various microphones.  Personally, I've never done it as I find it wouldn't help me one bit.  Every microphone purchase I've made was a blind purchase without ever listening to samples.  I think written reputation goes a long way.  Not sure what crunchier means, lol.  I prefer terms like thick, muddy, bright, punchy, transparent, etc. 

Mine are with the flat grids, as far as I know...I've never changed them.   

Feel free to provide any feedback if you get a chance   

[aaronji]

I often read experienced tapers instructing newbies to go check the archive to listen to samples to compare various microphones.  Personally, I've never done it as I find it wouldn't help me one bit.  Every microphone purchase I've made was a blind purchase without ever listening to samples.  I think written reputation goes a long way.  Not sure what crunchier means, lol.  I prefer terms like thick, muddy, bright, punchy, transparent, etc. 

Personally, I think there is some value in listening to samples to get a general impression of how a given mic sounds (assuming they are even available for the mics you're interested in).  Maybe you can infer, to some extent, how two mics differ.  To really compare them, though, I think you need to set up a controlled comp in which all factors (other than the microphones) are the same... 

Mine are with the flat grids, as far as I know...I've never changed them.   

Feel free to provide any feedback if you get a chance   

Will do.  I'd like to find some samples with that +4 dB grid too.

[adrianf74]

Finally got a chance to bust out the B3's with an Ugly Battery Box at a pretty high security club show (I felt more violated going in than I did going through a TSA check point).

I wouldn't say the show was the best place to try these as it was a hip hop band with live musicians (drums, bass, guitar) plus a DJ and the mix was a little bit of a "hot mess."  A friend of mine who was at the show felt it sounded murky but the capture with the B3's was pretty nice and flat.  Didn't sound muddy, didn't sound distorted and I think I like the sound better than the 4061's. 

In order to get more of a fair comparison, I'll need to do a show similar to one already recorded with the 4061's recorded from roughly the same spot to be able to make more of fair comparison.  However, the B3's were used from more or less the same spot I've always recorded from in the venue (with the 4061's and the CA-14's omnis, too).

Will update whenever I get to another show.

[Ziggz]

^ Is the 2.2k mod sufficient for loud-ish shows, or would 4.7 be safer?

[adrianf74]

^ Is the 2.2k mod sufficient for loud-ish shows, or would 4.7 be safer?

Hard to say as it depends on the mics; "one size does not fit all."