Author Topic: Omnis vs cards decision time (Stealth) (Read 7099 times)

madman · « **on:** August 28, 2005, 01:09:27 AM »

I've been taping shows with the CSBs for a few years, I mainly tape loud shows in very small venues (think 500-1100 people venues) where the sound is sometimes horrible. A couple venues are way too boomy, but I'm able to run the tape through some EQ software and roll that off. I know cards would help in this situation, but I often get moved around during taping and am worried about the recording sounding bad with cards from movement. I'm thinking the DPA4061s are the way to go, if I continue to get boomy recordings I can always fix it later. Any thoughts? Am I overreacting to how much movement would affect a pair of cards? Thanks.

Humbug · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2005, 07:49:20 AM »

How much movement? I found myself in the mosh pit while stealth taping BRMC last week, and it sounds OK. Took a lot of effort to stay facing forward, but even for the gentler gigs you can sway / tap feet a little.

Saying that, DPA4061s are probably the way to go, if you've got the cash

Ray76 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2005, 08:09:46 AM »

Quote from: madman on August 28, 2005, 01:09:27 AM

I've been taping shows with the CSBs for a few years, I mainly tape loud shows in very small venues (think 500-1100 people venues) where the sound is sometimes horrible. A couple venues are way too boomy, but I'm able to run the tape through some EQ software and roll that off. I know cards would help in this situation, but I often get moved around during taping and am worried about the recording sounding bad with cards from movement. I'm thinking the DPA4061s are the way to go, if I continue to get boomy recordings I can always fix it later. Any thoughts? Am I overreacting to how much movement would affect a pair of cards? Thanks.

If you tape in primarily horrible sounding venues....DPAs aint gonna help that. They capture perfectly IMHO what the room sounded like. Id get something more directional....Hypers...probably. they do a good job of helping out a bad room.

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2005, 11:26:40 AM »

It sounds to me like you're happy with your current recordings. In which case I think you should stick with the omnis and go for the DPA 406x.

cgrooves · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2005, 02:10:17 PM »

I second the omnis, especially if you will have to move around some. They give much more flexibility when it comes to movement, IMO.

Unitmonster · « **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2005, 10:18:25 PM »

I tape with cards and sub-cards, but am pretty good at staying still. I personally don't enjoy using omnis very much (my old rig was omnis). I find that I become hyper-aware of the noise around me and how loud it is on my mics. When I use my current rig I forget about it and know that it'll likely be quiet on the recording. Have you thought about sub-cards as a happy medium?

madman · « **Reply #6 on:** August 28, 2005, 11:21:13 PM »

Thanks for the input so far. I figure even in a poor sounding room, the DPAs will give me better sound, the CSBs are pretty poor capturing the high end. I had a pair of ATs awhile back that captured the high end perfectly, but distorted with loud bass so I had to send them back. What are some similarly priced (to the DPA 4061s) cards? I usually clip the mics to my shirt/jacket around my shoulders, so the movement is really my body, not my head. Are even slight movements noticeable with cards? For example, someone comes and stands in front of me, so I move over a foot or two. I guess I'm really trying to gauge how much movement affects my tape. The nice thing about the CSBs is that I can clip them on and not have to worry if they are pointing in the right space the whole time, so mounting is super easy. I guess my only complaint I have today is the lack of high end on the CSBs.

setboy · « **Reply #7 on:** August 28, 2005, 11:48:10 PM »

Quote from: madman on August 28, 2005, 11:21:13 PM

What are some similarly priced (to the DPA 4061s) cards?

what are you going to be running them with?

Ps some time try puting the mics on hat/head. your tapes will sound much better

Raphael

Evil Taper · « **Reply #8 on:** August 29, 2005, 12:07:20 AM »

I'll second the call for a hat mounted rig. I have run my 4061s in a terrible sounding venue a few times and what you hear is what you get. That being said, I don't think I'll stealth with anything but the 4061s until something even better comes along. The absolute clarity and brilliance of the recordings is untouchable by anything else in the same price range ($400 or less used). The only other option in that price range is a phantom AT setup and that requires a ps-2/ad-20 combo or the jklabs pp9. I guess you could also run some other high end active cards but that's where it starts to get expensive. Depending on your budget you can shop around for some Schoepps with actives, MBHO actives, Nak actives or even Pelusso is supposedly comming out with an active kit in the semi near future.

Also where the 4061s really excell is the purity of the bass information. In comparisson with the AT853s, which were the last mics I owned, there is no comparisson. When you open the wav in your editing program you can see the smootheness of the bass curves. The only real downside to the 4061s is that they tend to require you to get closer than you would have to if you were running cards/hypers which can make taping a bit dangerous at the rowdy shows. However, if the venue has a high enough spl you can run FOB and they'll sound fantastic. Don't mind me fluffing my mics....

madman · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2005, 02:46:25 AM »

I'll definitely try doing some head mounting at the next show I tape. I'm planning on pairing the 4061s with one of the DPA battery boxes. Right now I'm still using MD, but am going to switch to a flash solution, either the M Audio Microtrack or one of the Marantz units.

Evil Taper · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2005, 04:05:32 AM »

Sounds like a good plan. You might want to try to budget in an oade mod sbm-1 also, they really bring the 4061s to life. I don't even have one now and still love the recordings I make with mine (even at the boomiest crap venues). Do you tape metal or just loud rock shows mostly?

madman · « **Reply #11 on:** August 29, 2005, 04:14:59 AM »

Mainly loud rock shows: punk and power pop mainly. The most popular venue in Chicago for the bands I see is one of the sonically worst rooms ever. The only tweeters they have are on the ceiling. I used the bass roll-off once and found it made the recordings too thin, I like doing it in software where I can control it more precisely.

I think right now I'll get a pair of 4061s and the DPA batt box w/1/8" output. I'll wait to see how that microtracker turns out and then maybe convert the DPAs for phantom then. Oade seems to be the only people with the mics+batt boxes.

Evil Taper · « **Reply #12 on:** August 29, 2005, 04:42:13 AM »

The 4061s aren't a phantom powered mic. They run off the 9 volt plug in power that the DPA or other battery boxes provide. The SBM-1 is an outboard Analog to Digital converter and bypasses your recorders A/D for higher clarity and bit depth. If it sounds fine with just the batt box and the recorder then upgrade the rest later. You might wanna check out ebay for a used set of 4061s (I got mine for around $350) but they're usually the tan version and you need to have someone solder them to a 1/8" plug. I think brand new with the DPA Batt box and a brand new pair of 4061s you're looking at around $1000. If you've ever been to The Rave in Milwaukee you know how it sounds and I have used the 4061s in that dump and gotten better results than expected. You'll love these things and they are ultra stealthy, the size of a pencil eraser, so good luck.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #13 on:** August 29, 2005, 09:24:11 AM »

if you find that you are constatnly needing to EQ your recordings in post, perhaps look at the dpa 4071s. they have a built in roll off and sound very nice on their own. certainly not thin.
;0

madman · « **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2005, 11:33:25 AM »

Quote from: Evil Taper on August 29, 2005, 04:42:13 AM

The 4061s aren't a phantom powered mic. They run off the 9 volt plug in power that the DPA or other battery boxes provide.

Can't they be converted to accept phantom? I was led to believe that from the spec sheet.

I've been checking EBay as well, I am a bit weary of buying them used, I'll have to see what kind of prices I can get on new ones. Thanks for all the input.

Ray76 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 29, 2005, 11:39:51 AM »

Quote from: madman on August 29, 2005, 11:33:25 AM

Quote from: Evil Taper on August 29, 2005, 04:42:13 AM
The 4061s aren't a phantom powered mic. They run off the 9 volt plug in power that the DPA or other battery boxes provide.
Can't they be converted to accept phantom? I was led to believe that from the spec sheet.

I've been checking EBay as well, I a bit weary of buying them used, I'll have to see what kind of prices I can get on new ones. Thanks for all the input.

they do have XLR adapters that allow them to accept phantom power, yes. I have them.

Ray76 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 29, 2005, 11:43:47 AM »

http://www.fullcompass.com/Products/pages/SKU--24403/

Evil Taper · « **Reply #17 on:** August 30, 2005, 03:06:25 AM »

From what I've heard they aren't actually phantom powered though, it just allows them to be connected to a phantom power source if that's all that's available. In your experience does running them phantom have any effect on the way the mics perform? I think I discussed all of this with J Kelly and was sure that phantom doesn't help these mics.

madman · « **Reply #18 on:** August 30, 2005, 09:16:33 PM »

Looks like I'll be ordering the 4061s tomorrow, found demos for $600 with full warranty. The last EBay for a pair was $500 with no warranty, so I think this is a good deal.

Ray76 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 30, 2005, 09:18:00 PM »

Quote from: madman on August 30, 2005, 09:16:33 PM

Looks like I'll be ordering the 4061s tomorrow, found demos for $600 with full warranty. The last EBay for a pair was $500 with no warranty, so I think this is a good deal.

congrats bud. stellar mics, especially for acoustic non pa stuff.
i love mine.

teddy

Chris K · « **Reply #20 on:** August 30, 2005, 10:28:05 PM »

Quote from: madman on August 30, 2005, 09:16:33 PM

Looks like I'll be ordering the 4061s tomorrow, found demos for $600 with full warranty. The last EBay for a pair was $500 with no warranty, so I think this is a good deal.

make sure you get the 4061's with the microdot connectors or you could get the ones from coresound that terminate into a 3.55 miniplug. dont get the lemo connectors

i agree with the head mount option for the 4061's..the higher the mounting the better the sound imo.

madman · « **Reply #21 on:** August 31, 2005, 07:23:17 PM »

Yea, they have microdots, got them from Oade. I guess they were used by Widespread Panic for one acoustic show at the HOB and then returned. I forgot to ask if they come with clips, or to order clips, guess I'll do that tomorrow. Great experience with Oade, by the way. Couldn't recommend them enough. Far different buying experience than when I bought my CSBs 3 years ago.

Ray76 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 31, 2005, 07:26:37 PM »

Quote from: madman on August 31, 2005, 07:23:17 PM

Yea, they have microdots, got them from Oade. I guess they were used by Widespread Panic for one acoustic show at the HOB and then returned. I forgot to ask if they come with clips, or to order clips, guess I'll do that tomorrow. Great experience with Oade, by the way. Couldn't recommend them enough. Far different buying experience than when I bought my CSBs 3 years ago.

bad experience at CS??unheard of.
im sure its just a fluke.

madman · « **Reply #23 on:** August 31, 2005, 08:07:11 PM »

Quote from: BigRay on August 31, 2005, 07:26:37 PM

Quote from: madman on August 31, 2005, 07:23:17 PM
Yea, they have microdots, got them from Oade. I guess they were used by Widespread Panic for one acoustic show at the HOB and then returned. I forgot to ask if they come with clips, or to order clips, guess I'll do that tomorrow. Great experience with Oade, by the way. Couldn't recommend them enough. Far different buying experience than when I bought my CSBs 3 years ago.

bad experience at CS??unheard of.
im sure its just a fluke.

I wish I had found this board before I ordered them. I had AT853s, but as I mentioned elsewhere on here, got horrible distortion at loud shows so I sent them back. Got the CSBs, despite Len being a total dick on the phone. Certainly a good product, I'd just rather not deal with a guy who is rude to his customers. Not to mention all the competition bashing he does on the Internet.

Ray76 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 31, 2005, 08:11:50 PM »

Quote from: madman on August 31, 2005, 08:07:11 PM

Quote from: BigRay on August 31, 2005, 07:26:37 PM
Quote from: madman on August 31, 2005, 07:23:17 PM
Yea, they have microdots, got them from Oade. I guess they were used by Widespread Panic for one acoustic show at the HOB and then returned. I forgot to ask if they come with clips, or to order clips, guess I'll do that tomorrow. Great experience with Oade, by the way. Couldn't recommend them enough. Far different buying experience than when I bought my CSBs 3 years ago.

bad experience at CS??unheard of.
im sure its just a fluke.

I wish I had found this board before I ordered them. I had AT853s, but as I mentioned elsewhere on here, got horrible distortion at loud shows so I sent them back. Got the CSBs, despite Len being a total dick on the phone. Certainly a good product, I'd just rather not deal with a guy who is rude to his customers. Not to mention all the competition bashing he does on the Internet.

a good businessman doesnt need to bash his competitors. I dont know how he gets customers..anyway, ill hush. dont want to take it south.

pfife · « **Reply #25 on:** August 31, 2005, 09:35:22 PM »

Quote from: madman on August 31, 2005, 07:23:17 PM

Yea, they have microdots, got them from Oade. I guess they were used by Widespread Panic for one acoustic show at the HOB and then returned. I forgot to ask if they come with clips, or to order clips, guess I'll do that tomorrow. Great experience with Oade, by the way. Couldn't recommend them enough. Far different buying experience than when I bought my CSBs 3 years ago.

I LOVE 4061s. LOVE THEM! As far as clips go, I just went to my local Staples/Office Max and purchased a box of the smallest binder clips... 20 of em for $.79 or something like that. I wear a baseball cap, and just put the wire through the clip, clip it to the baseball cap, pull the mic until it buts agains the clip, and all good.

At this point, I have no desire to change my rig at all, until a 24-bit compact solution becomes available. That's how much my gearslut ass likes the 4061s -> ModSBM1.

madman · « **Reply #26 on:** September 01, 2005, 12:49:55 AM »

Quote from: s*9#$5%6^3) on August 31, 2005, 09:35:22 PM

I LOVE 4061s. LOVE THEM! As far as clips go, I just went to my local Staples/Office Max and purchased a box of the smallest binder clips... 20 of em for $.79 or something like that. I wear a baseball cap, and just put the wire through the clip, clip it to the baseball cap, pull the mic until it buts agains the clip, and all good.

At this point, I have no desire to change my rig at all, until a 24-bit compact solution becomes available. That's how much my gearslut ass likes the 4061s -> ModSBM1.

Good tip, thanks!

Evil Taper · « **Reply #27 on:** September 01, 2005, 02:18:45 AM »

His tapes are stellar with the 4061>sbm-1 combo....now he has me hunting down an oade sbm-1 for myself

madman · « **Reply #28 on:** September 02, 2005, 05:58:19 PM »

The 4061s came today...those are tiny! I have a question though, they came with 2 little endcaps, one has a screen at the end and on the sides, the other only has a screen at the end and solid metal along the sides. What's the deal with that?

madman · « **Reply #29 on:** September 02, 2005, 06:10:04 PM »

Awesome, thanks! They are so tiny I'm nervous to yank the cap off.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #30 on:** September 07, 2005, 09:46:10 AM »

interesting...
mine didn't come w/these options.

but maybe that just a 4071 thing.
I'll have to dig up those recordings.

Moke...
you know..like the slacker I am..
I have some music I said i was sending..months ago. i'm just now cleaning my deck and finding it.
included is another DVD of that 4061 Jdisc WSP set, plus the other goods we discussed a while back.
sorry for slacking..but its these kids! like a rock in each shoe!

Author Topic: Omnis vs cards decision time (Stealth) (Read 7099 times)

Ray76

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