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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: EricM on February 22, 2016, 12:23:39 AM
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Hi Members,
For stealth concert recording I was wondering what mics are a higher grade than these mics? What is the pinnacle of stealth recording mics please?
These mics are excellent and provide fantasic quality but I'm after even higher grades. The highest grades of a similar size to these mics. Not XLR mics. It's for a Sony M10.
I use a 12volt battery box which I'm happy with as well. MIC In Rec Level 4. I'm very happy with my results but I want even higher.
AT943 Audio Technica
Price: $399.95 SP-CMC-8 Audio Technica Cardioid Slimline Stereo Microphones
Thanks in advance members!
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Hi!
I had the same question a few years ago, but there did not seem to be any interesting stealthy mics in the price range I guess you want. I ended up getting a setup based on Schoeps caps (yes, I do stealth all the time) and Naiant Tinybox or NBox. It was expensive, but worth every penny, if you want to do this for a while... I have never looked back.
Please correct me if I am wrong here, would be interesting to know if higher quality mics have shown up for a decent price...
-colargol
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hey,
which model schoeps did you get...cards?
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hey,
which model schoeps did you get...cards?
I have MK41s and MK4s, but I mostly use MK41s. These are so called Super Cardoids, but I still think they have a very nice sound... The MK4s are better general mics according to some people, but they would pick up a little bit more audience, so that is a trade off for stealth.
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hey,
which model schoeps did you get...cards?
I have MK41s and MK4s, but I mostly use MK41s. These are so called Super Cardoids, but I still think they have a very nice sound... The MK4s are better general mics according to some people, but they would pick up a little bit more audience, so that is a trade off for stealth.
NBox with MK4's and MK41's. I have had my 4's for over 25 years. Bought a pair of 41's last year. I started with the 2nd prototype RBox 25 years ago, bough an NBox from Nick for travel purposes (My RBox looks like a bomb) and upgraded to the NBox Platinum for extra battery life. No need or desire to upgrade the mics except to add caps just because. I only run stealth by the way.
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The sp cmc 8 are AT943 mics,what do you want to improve on?More bass,more highs,something else?
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I will take note of all of the suggestions.
beatkilla I'm very happy with the AT943 mics. I guess I'm after a touch more clarity. The AT943 mics seem a touch flat to me. A slight amount of extra bass would be good as well.
I recorded under my shirt collar. I know that's frowned upon but the recordings still came out quite well.
I would just like to squeeze a few more drops of quality out of my recordings though. The nBox looks interesting to me. And the MK41's. But I wonder if that will add much more?
I stood as still as I could for the shows. I went MIC in on the M10. Record Dial at 4. Limiter on, Low Mic Sensitivity, Manual record mode.
There's only the slightest amount of clipping only in the audience screams. 99.9% of the recording is within the right levels. They sound pretty clear to me in their raw state. 24 Bit 44.1 kHz.
In my opinion I believe I captured EX- quality so I am pleased. I've only taped 3 times so I'm still learning. I don't ever think I will have the courage to clip mics to a cap or glasses. So I will stick with shirt collar for now.
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The AT943 mics seem a touch flat to me. A slight amount of extra bass would be good as well.
How about AT853? Or consider AT-ADAPT(http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/AT-ADAPT) and 853 caps.
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^
Thanks a lot for that tip. Do you know if it's possible to buy those in an L and R pair already made up? If I buy 2 separate mics I'm not sure how to join them into 1 connector.
Are these ones similar?
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/1e904e3760bfdde3/
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^
Thanks a lot for that tip. Do you know if it's possible to buy those in an L and R pair already made up? If I buy 2 separate mics I'm not sure how to join them into 1 connector.
Are these ones similar?
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/1e904e3760bfdde3/
You can get a stereo pair from Yard Sale or Soundprofessionals.
Like your SP-CMC-8 (based on AT943), SP-CMC-4U is also based on AT U853a.
AT853 was replaced with U853. See this thread. http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=75092.0;all
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Thank you Soundholic and all the other members who posted. You have given me some things to consider.
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It's definitely a trade off between size and cost. For the same sized mics as you have, there are also DPA 4061's, the Core-Sound binaurals and the Church CA-FS (not sure if Chris makes these anymore). I think these are all omnis. Sound Professionals has just started selling tiny Beyerdynamic based mics, but the reviews so far have been mixed.
Going a bit larger are the Church CA-14s and CA-11's.
The next step up in size are the active solutions for the SDCs, which are the Schoeps, DPA 402x series, and a number of hacked solutions that the taper community have developed to run Gefells, AKG, etc. But with these you have to start thinking about stepping up from a battery box or 9V/12V preamp, which will increase the size of your rig.
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Thank you for the replies everyone. They are very helpful to me.
tedyun, which are your favourite mics out of the ones you have listed?
"B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5, Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals"
Let's assume for the following sort of concerts;
1) Large stadium concert with a band like Metallica or ACDC. Standing in the mid section of the crowd. Very loud amplification and crowds.
2) Indoor venue with about 3000 people and a performer like Brian Wilson. Full band set up. Seated towards the back section. Loud amplification with more subdued crowds. Sometimes loud screams and cheers.
I wonder if you could please give me a general idea of your go to mics for which concert style? I mainly attend concerts with full bands, amplified with noisy crowds. Lot's of screamers, cheers, whistlers and loud clappers.
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You definitely want to stick with cards in both of those situations — omnis aren't going to isolate the music enough from the shouters and the room echo.
There are a couple of side-by-side comparisons of the AT853s and CA-14 cards here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=165321
and here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=176504
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Hi Eric,
My favorite mics are my most recent ones :D!
I’m more of a hoarder than anything. When I started taping 9 years ago, I started out with CA-11’s and I liked them so much that I got the CA-14’s. The CAFS, CSB and Busman’s I picked up when there were really good deals here in the YS. I rarely use them, and they see use when I am in non concert situations.
The other thing is that I rarely attend stadium concerts and I don’t really stealth. I’m 5’10”, so even if I place mics in a hat, it’s not high enough to avoid the clappers, wookies, talkers and the other denizens of concerts. So when I’m stealthing, while the rest of the crowd is having a great time, I’m the only one with a scowl on my face, thinking how the crowd is ruining the recording! That’s messed up.
Anyway, I guess I’m saying that I’m not the best person to ask about stealthing. I didn’t really assemble my mic collection with that intent.
I agree with nulldogmas, and in both situations, I would go with cards. In fact I would choose hypers which are more specialized, but are ideal in those larger venues when placed near the back. Personally, if I were free to move about, I’d get as close to the PAs as possible and have the mics pointed directly at the stacks. This essentially sacrifices ambiance for clarity (ie., minimizing the crowd noise, but having a flatter sounding recording).
Within my stable of mics, my go-to’s were the B&K (DPA) 4011. These are full sized SDC mics with non-removable caps. I really like the DPA > PSP2 combination. The intent of the MK5s>Nbox was mostly to setup in tight spots, and the fact that the MK5s can switch between card and omni was another attractive feature. The next consideration is size. If it’s a no-taping band, strong security venue, I would go with the CA-14 > CA-9200. If I wasn’t concerned about being caught, I’d probably go with the MK5 > Nbox.
But it sounds like you’ll be taping in situations in different situations than me, so you’re wondering which mics to get. If I were you, and to combine this thread with the other one, in those situations (and money is no object), I’d get the Schoeps MK4 or MK41 > Nbox > M10 and for the ultra stealth situations, I’d get hyper caps for your AT953’s.
Being a DPA guy, I would normally also recommend DPA 402x mics or their hyper card offerings, but the XLR connector is standard size compared to the Nbobs which are more stealthy. There are many variations on this. I could rattle off a few other “dream” configurations (eg. Gefell M21 > Nbob) but when it comes down to it, I am of the school that 90% of a successful recording is about mic placement. Buy the best gear that you can afford, and that makes the most sense for you size-wise, then start experimenting. The AT943’s are fine mics and they are the ideal size for your situations. The only other thing I would add is getting the hyper caps, just to have more flexibility when you’re placed further away from the stage. Going up to standard SDC caps increases the footprint which may make it more difficult (but not impossible!) to stealth.
Happy taping!
Ted
Thank you for the replies everyone. They are very helpful to me.
tedyun, which are your favourite mics out of the ones you have listed?
"B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5, Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals"
Let's assume for the following sort of concerts;
1) Large stadium concert with a band like Metallica or ACDC. Standing in the mid section of the crowd. Very loud amplification and crowds.
2) Indoor venue with about 3000 people and a performer like Brian Wilson. Full band set up. Seated towards the back section. Loud amplification with more subdued crowds. Sometimes loud screams and cheers.
I wonder if you could please give me a general idea of your go to mics for which concert style? I mainly attend concerts with full bands, amplified with noisy crowds. Lot's of screamers, cheers, whistlers and loud clappers.
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I recorded under my shirt collar. I know that's frowned upon but the recordings still came out quite well.
That's probably the biggest problem, unless you're much taller than the crowd. I've had much better experiences at the top of my head, X-Y, rubberbanded to a 6-inch Nite-Ize wire tie at 90-degrees or so (see pic). The wire tie keeps it like a crown on your head and can be reinforced with a beanie, bandana or mesh trucker cap worn backwards. I'm an inch or two shorter than average, so getting the mics high up helps.
I stood as still as I could for the shows. I went MIC in on the M10. Record Dial at 4. Limiter on, Low Mic Sensitivity, Manual record mode.
There's only the slightest amount of clipping only in the audience screams. 99.9% of the recording is within the right levels. They sound pretty clear to me in their raw state. 24 Bit 44.1 kHz.
I suggest disabling the M10 limiter, it's only good for fast transients (hand claps) and not long peaks from screams or excessive bass around 50-130 Hz.
My biggest problem is not knowing how long the tiny 12V battery will last; will probably make my own 16.8V BB for them (using 2x rechargeable EBL 8.4V Li-ons).
The 4' cable is also a bit short since they're at the very top of my head.
Otherwise, these were the slimmest cardioid mics I could find and am pretty happy with them. I still prefer the more natural sound of omnis (DPA 406x) despite crowd noise issues.