Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: su6oxone on July 25, 2008, 01:57:08 AM
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Simple dumb question. To my credit, I've tried searching TS and googling and wiki'ing it, but I can't seem to find what 'DFC' stands for. ??? I assume it refers to taping position in the venue, like 'FOB' is 'front of (sound)board' (I think). Something-front-center? Besides 'FOB' and 'DFC' are there any other acronyms that I should mention in the notes of my LMA or BT listings? Thanks in advance.
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Simple dumb question. To my credit, I've tried searching TS and googling and wiki'ing it, but I can't seem to find what 'DFC' stands for. ??? I assume it refers to taping position in the venue, like 'FOB' is 'front of (sound)board' (I think). Something-front-center? Besides 'FOB' and 'DFC' are there any other acronyms that I should mention in the notes of my LMA or BT listings? Thanks in advance.
Dead F'ing Center
L(eft)OC and R(ight)OC go along with it
JAson
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Dead F'ing Center
L(eft)OC and R(ight)OC go along with it
JAson
Ah... cool. Thanks for the info. +T.
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lol
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Zman has the best Acronyms:
Source: Schoeps CCM4V'S(din)>Lunatec V2>Sound Devices 722 (24/48)
location: SOB/DLFC/KFC/ZFC/AARP 28' From Stage 8' High
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Simple dumb question. To my credit, I've tried searching TS and googling and wiki'ing it, but I can't seem to find what 'DFC' stands for. ??? I assume it refers to taping position in the venue, like 'FOB' is 'front of (sound)board' (I think). Something-front-center? Besides 'FOB' and 'DFC' are there any other acronyms that I should mention in the notes of my LMA or BT listings? Thanks in advance.
Dead F'ing Center
L(eft)OC and R(ight)OC go along with it
JAson
;D
That's a good one.
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http://wiki.etree.org/index.php?page=SourceAbbreviations
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AKA
Don't f***ing cuss.
Dumb f***ing c***s***er
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Always take taper claims of position with a grain of salt. I've seen people claim DFC when they're actually 10'-12' off center. FOB is another popular acronym (front of board), and IME it's often meaningless since <a> it gives no indication of the recording location relative to the sound source, and in a lot of smallish venues the whole darn venue is FOB. Personally, I find that in addition to a detailed listing of the gear I'm running, it's best to accurately track the following actual values as a reference point for future recording opportunities (why everyon doesn't do this, I don't know - perhaps they're not as OCD as me...no surprise there!):
- actual position from the stage, in feet
- offset left or right, in feet
- stand height
- mic configuration (distance between mics + included angle)
Think of it this way: taping is, in part, a learning experience every time we go out to record. Without factual data, it's difficult, if not impossible, to learn from past experiences.
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I actually list DFC when I've found and taped from the sweet spot of the PA which is not always center, usually close but not exactly centered especially indoors.
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- actual position from the stage, in feet
- offset left or right, in feet
- stand height
- mic configuration (distance between mics + included angle)
Think of it this way: taping is, in part, a learning experience every time we go out to record. Without factual data, it's difficult, if not impossible, to learn from past experiences.
I do this, primarily for my own reference for the exact reason Brian mentions.
One other thing I often note for such purposes is the angle of the performers on stage and/or between the FOH stacks as seen from the recording position. I use an easy off-the-cuff measure to determine the angle - one fist width held at arms length covers approximately 10 degrees of view. To measure, hold one fist out and squint through one eye, aligning the outside of your fist with the first target. Then place your other fist next to the first and leapfrog fist over fist until you are aligned with the second target, adding 10 degrees for each fist width. Also makes friends/wife/girlfriend laugh and strangers wonder what the meaning of the freaky gesture you're making toward the band might be.
[edited spellin']
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Thanks Brian, this is a great idea, +T. Providing taping location details like that will help future tapers in the same venue pick spots to tape from without necessarily having a ton of recording trial and error at the place. Will definitely do this in the future (and on my one LMA recording, although it'll have to be a gross estimate).
Thanks to all for the suggestions folks. 8)
Always take taper claims of position with a grain of salt. I've seen people claim DFC when they're actually 10'-12' off center. FOB is another popular acronym (front of board), and IME it's often meaningless since <a> it gives no indication of the recording location relative to the sound source, and in a lot of smallish venues the whole darn venue is FOB. Personally, I find that in addition to a detailed listing of the gear I'm running, it's best to accurately track the following actual values as a reference point for future recording opportunities (why everyon doesn't do this, I don't know - perhaps they're not as OCD as me...no surprise there!):
- actual position from the stage, in feet
- offset left or right, in feet
- stand height
- mic configuration (distance between mics + included angle)
Think of it this way: taping is, in part, a learning experience every time we go out to record. Without factual data, it's difficult, if not impossible, to learn from past experiences.
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I do something similar to what Brian said. the only time FOB or DFC means anything to me is at a big theater or amph type show where the sound board is directly in the middle of the floor other wise who knows...
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"DFC" is a relatively new term, actually, and there is one unknown taper somewhere that said he was "dead f*cking center" and used that acronym on a source and it then spread like wild fire. I think I first started seeing it on sources around 2002 or so, but it could have been 2001, but not much before that.
Back in the '80s and '90s, the tapers I ran with at that time used the same conventions that theater ticket sections showed on their charts and tickets, "CTR" (center) "LOC" (left of center) "ROC" (right of center).
(FOB) meant anywhere in front of the SBD area, and since the bulk of open taping done back then was in large venues for DMB, GD, Phish, and WSP, it's meaning was fairly straight forward and everyone knew it was not the same distance from the PA as the taping section, (TS, or OTS for "official" taping section), usually behind and occasionally next to, but never in front of the SBD.
Today, I think the meanings of FOB, DFC, and OTS are so much more relative, as Brian points out, and without actual location specifics, really does not indicate what actually was the physical location relative to the stage.
The below source info is what would tell any taper that knows the venue precisely where the recording was made:
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=516445
The Black Crowes
July 5, 2008
Charlottesville Pavilion
Charlottesville, Virginia
***16 bit***
source: B&K4022(ortf)>Sonosax>744t (24/48 )
location: fob/slight loc, Row 19, seat 11, stand at 7.5'
transfer744T>wavelab(fades/resample/bit depth)>cd wave>flac
recorded & seeded: craig davis
One Set
Disc One:
01 Intro/tuning
02 Movin' On Down The Line
03 Goodbye Daughters Of The Revolution
04 Hotel Illness
05 Thick N' Thin
06 Walk Believer Walk
07 Young Man Old Man
08 There's Gold In Them Hills
09 Boomer's Story*
10 Seeing Things
11 Welcome To The Goodtimes
Disc Two:
01 Quinn The Eskimo (The Mighty Quinn)
02 Wiser Time
03 Jam>
04 Thorn In My Pride
05 Wounded Bird
Encore:
06 She
07 The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down
Notes:
* a huge moth flew into Chris' hair during Boomer's Story
and he jokes about it
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FOB is another popular acronym (front of board), and IME it's often meaningless since <a> it gives no indication of the recording location relative to the sound source, and in a lot of smallish venues the whole darn venue is FOB.
I've often wondered about this. In my mind, 'FOB' means directly in front of the board; 'FOH' means anywhere in front of the board. At least, in my lineages, 'FOB' means directly in front of the board...
These days I tend to prefer getting upfront, which makes lineage easy (stagelip, front row, 2nd row etc). I have to confess I'm pretty rubbish at estimating distance (am I 5m from stage? 10m?). Any tips for guesstimating distance appreciated!
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Just wait until more guys start mixing on a Tablet PC and the FOH board disappears. FOB? You mean FOT?
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I actually list DFC when I've found and taped from the sweet spot of the PA which is not always center, usually close but not exactly centered especially indoors.
Yes and the reason for that is because DFC is where you will get the most bass in a well tuned system.. That is why most soundguys will not mix DFC because it tricks you into thinking that there is more bass then there actually is. Its because the house left and right sub's tend to sum at DFC off to DFC there is usually a null in bass.
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I thought DFC meant don't fucking chat, as in near me.
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Dentucky Fried Chicken???
Terry
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Just wait until more guys start mixing on a Tablet PC and the FOH board disappears. FOB? You mean FOT?
No thanks... I want faders...... and a good analog console.. Midas XL4 please and thank you. I mixed on the new XL 8 last week it was pretty cool...That console is the best of both worlds Imo..
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I have to confess I'm pretty rubbish at estimating distance (am I 5m from stage? 10m?). Any tips for guesstimating distance appreciated!
Difficult for me too, so my angle measurements are often more accurate unless I actually pace it off. I got another chuckle out of my GF a couple weeks ago when she looked over and realized I was silently counting the number of tiles from the front pew to the performers up by the altar during an acoustic jazz gig in a church a few weeks back and estimating the tile dimensions with my 12" shoe.
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I got another chuckle out of my GF a couple weeks ago when she looked over and realized I was silently counting the number of tiles from the front pew to the performers up by the altar during an acoustic jazz gig in a church a few weeks back and estimating the tile dimensions with my 12" shoe.
LMAO!
+tea
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I commonly will reference ceiling beams,flooring,chairs,lights..ect. To get accurate dimensions and measurements. There's nothing like sitting on the floor of an arena with your finger in the air as you try to count the steel girders 75' above your head.
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I usually record in small clubs, and am usually able to estimate how close I am to the stage based on how many of me, lying head-to-toe, could fit between my position and the front of stage. I'm 6' 2" tall, call it 6', and if two and a half of me could fit, that's 15'; if I'm closer than 6', I just wing it.
Aloha,
Brad
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I usually record in small clubs, and am usually able to estimate how close I am to the stage based on how many of me, lying head-to-toe, could fit between my position and the front of stage. I'm 6' 2" tall, call it 6', and if two and a half of me could fit, that's 15'; if I'm closer than 6', I just wing it.
Aloha,
Brad
:lol:
i thought i was the only one.
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I carry a STRAIT-LINE (http://www.strait-line.com/irwin/consumer/straitline/jhtml/laser_tape_25.jhtml) laser tape in my gear bag. When I'm setting up I can fire it at the stage/stacks/etc and get exact measures!
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I carry a STRAIT-LINE (http://www.strait-line.com/irwin/consumer/straitline/jhtml/laser_tape_25.jhtml) laser tape in my gear bag. When I'm setting up I can fire it at the stage/stacks/etc and get exact measures!
I've got one of those laser things too. It really helped me when I was wiring up a local venue.
I thought OTS was Official Tapers Section ???
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I carry a STRAIT-LINE (http://www.strait-line.com/irwin/consumer/straitline/jhtml/laser_tape_25.jhtml) laser tape in my gear bag. When I'm setting up I can fire it at the stage/stacks/etc and get exact measures!
+T for unprecedented Taper geekyness!
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Just wait until more guys start mixing on a Tablet PC and the FOH board disappears. FOB? You mean FOT?
No thanks... I want faders...... and a good analog console..
Yeah, so did I.....
Until I bought a digital console. Now I wouldn't even consider going back to analog.
/well...maybe an XL4, maybe....
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I actually list DFC when I've found and taped from the sweet spot of the PA which is not always center, usually close but not exactly centered especially indoors.
This is very true and the first thing I thought of when I read the initial post.
I try to find the accoustic center. When the accoustic center is off physical center by more than a couple of feet and if I'm at that spot, I usually just label it as "center" and reserve DFC for when I'm on physical center. I use LOC/ROC when accoustic center and physical center are the effectively the same but I'm not at that spot.
I'm sure DFC goes back earlierer than 2001. I have DAT trades from mid '90s shos labeled as such and I started using it sometime after that. I got laughed at for labeling a lawn tape 6ft off DFC.
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I don't mean to be a malcontent in this thread, but to me all this measuring is beyond anal and is totally unnecessary, but then again if it floats yer boat, go for it. The soundcheck is gonna be different every night, the mix is gonna be different for every show, so what's the point? Every night the sound is different and, if I understand the way sound interacts in air when it comes out of two point sources, the sweet spot will therefore be different.
S0, if you're so precise with measuring the exact number of feet and inches from each speaker (such as by using a laser measuring tool) then how can you possibly ensure that say three different soundguys on three different nights are gonna make sure the balance out of each stack is the same each night, the mix out of each is the same, etc?
The answer to me is that the best method is _still_ to get there early and TRY to find and setup in the sweet spot during the warm-up band and then hope that it doesn't change for the headliner. But in the end, unless you're able to move your stand around during the headlining show, finding and locating the sweetest sounding spot on any given night is totally determined by luck.
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I have to disagree... while you are correct there are so many variables that to some a couple of measurements seem pointless, the better your notes and the more practice you have at ANYTHING the less luck will play a role. If you can consistently make good tapes with good mic placement, than you are good at what you do. not lucky.
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If you can consistently make good tapes with good mic placement, than you are good at what you do. not lucky.
True. Lucky was too strong a word to use in my previous post. Lets face it though, the sweetest spot in the venue is not the same night after night after night because of what I was saying before. Sure, if you consistently are in a spot that sounds good, then you're playing the odds and you're gonna get consistently nice sounding recordings because we all know that mic placement is only one of many variables to getting good sound, albeit one of the most important.
But my point is that measuring to feet and inches I think is overkill in respect to that, because you simply can't say that every night the sweetest spot in the joint is gonna be in the exact same location. Close maybe, but not down to the point where IMHO measuring feet and inches is more justified than say 'eyeballing' your favorite spot or just listening for where that spot might be.
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Unless its the same band in the same exact venue with the same exact PA system and the exact same audience with the same temperature and humidity oh yeah lets not forget about the sound man as well oh yeah one more thing the stage volume..... measuring anything is pointless.. Why because if you change anyone of the things I mentioned you are going to drastically change the sweet spot. The best way to find any sweet spot is not with a laser beam but with your fucking ears. That's why you have them... Now sometimes you cant use your ears then you have to rely on the sound guy to give you a good idea of where he thinks the sweet spot is. But chances are you cant put a mic there anyway. So I say for most small shows with a good sounding mix. Slightly off center to the left or right about 20-40 feet back but again that's not writen in stone. And just because you had a good sound in a venue before with the same band and the same location does not mean that one of the above things has not changed. Room acoustics being what they are they are less of a factor when your very close to the PA system and anything less then 50 feet is very close IMO and you will be less subjected to room acoustics because you are in the direct field of the PA system. The closer you get the the source of your sound the better your recordings will be on average because you will be relying less on the room to get your sound and more on the source. Now for acoustic shows or shows where you want the room the reverse applies.
Chris
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For an SRO venue or an outdoor show, I list distance from the stage, from center, & occasionally from the board. Mainly for my own reference.
In a reserved seating venue, I list section, row, & seat. Again, for my own reference, if for nothing else than to determine where it sounds best generally, in order to attempt to get the best seats (for me).
I stealth primarily, so those row or seat numbers might not be completely accurate, but they're close enough. ;)