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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: bananacamel on November 14, 2010, 05:50:30 AM
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Hi There
I've been taping on and off for 20 years, but only recently got into solid state recorders.
I first bought a Zoom H2. Using the internal mics I was getting okay recordings, but when comparing quality with other tapers found mine (while listenable) lacked detail and carried too much bass.
So I bought some church audio mics with an ST-20a pre amp, plugged them into the Zoom H2 and got a really poor distorted mess of a recording. This is with the pre-amp set to -27db and the zoom H2 on the lowest gain.
Went back to the internal mics for a while before deciding to buy a second hand Edirol R1, reports of great quality audio with poor build quality are fine because I'll only use the unit a few times a year.
With the church audio mics plugged in (to the mic port) (pre-amp left at home as there seemed no need for it) mic type set to CND, input levels coming up to below max on the peaks, as per instruction booklet. I was ready for my best quality recording to date, but no.
I listened to the recording of the support band, and it was a real mess, so for the main act i turning the input level down. No help, I just got a quiet distorted recording, rather than a loud distorted recording.
My question is very simple, what am I doing wrong? Can anyone help me figure out how I can get my equipment to work together?
Your help would be much appreciated
Thanks, Dave
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For the 2nd part, all mics need to be powered correctly in order to work right, specifically when dealing with higher dB levels. The mics you're using need to be powered with either a battery box or a preamp, regular plug-in power won't be suitable. Always use the preamp to supply power to the mics. Without being properly powered, they will distort.
Likewise, always make sure you're using a battery that works and isn't dying. That would lower the voltage and not supply enough power, which also creates distortion, and that's one of the first things people here would suggest to double check.
The ST-20a preamp I'm not familiar with, but I believe it probably has fixed gain settings. It's possible it could have overloaded your recorder if you were using a +20 or +30 setting, so you'll want to use a +0 or +10 setting instead. Also, always use the "line-in" input, not the "mic-in". Mic-in adds gain unnecessarily. And just to be safe, avoid all settings on the recorders such as auto-gain control, etc, make sure they're set to off. Doing all of the above should result in a clean recording, unless perhaps the preamp is broken, which I doubt is the case.
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Thanks for the advice, I'll give it a go.
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in addition to the above good advice, using the preamp with a fresh battery ( so much more important than many realize ) practice at home with the stereo loud.... Then post some samples.
good luck,
joe
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Are you ABSOLUTELY sure you've got the gain switcher on the side of the H2 (between the line and mic inputs) set to 'L'..what you are describing really sounds like it's that.
If it is, you might well have a faulty gain switch
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You home stereo will be nowhere near loud enough for testing. I suggest you yell into the mics from a distance of about 3". Once you get more experience you'll know how much gain you need when recording at various clubs. Get out and record junk bands you don't care about, free shows, etc.
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So I bought some church audio mics with an ST-20a pre amp, plugged them into the Zoom H2 and got a really poor distorted mess of a recording. This is with the pre-amp set to -27db and the zoom H2 on the lowest gain.
(snip)
With the church audio mics plugged in (to the mic port) (pre-amp left at home as there seemed no need for it)...
Mentioning that you set the ST-20 to "-27dB" got me thinking.
What does the gain scale on the ST-20 say? There were some reports that the readings on early versions were wrong:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133659.0;all
I know it's steppable, but Chris changed the scale a few times.
Like the others said, don't leave your preamp at home. You will need to power the Church mics with 9V, the PIP provided by the recorder is far from adequate.
Also, where do you place the mics? Stack taping? Perhaps you're too close to the source?
You could also benchmark test your preamp at home by plugging in your rig to the line-in of your soundcard and feeding a signal to Audacity or similar. That way, you could see how many dB are added at each setting, and whether any particular setting distorts.
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One more thing, make sure you are using a name brand battery. Those cheap off-brands never work as well.
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Hi There
I've been taping on and off for 20 years, but only recently got into solid state recorders.
I first bought a Zoom H2. Using the internal mics I was getting okay recordings, but when comparing quality with other tapers found mine (while listenable) lacked detail and carried too much bass.
So I bought some church audio mics with an ST-20a pre amp, plugged them into the Zoom H2 and got a really poor distorted mess of a recording. This is with the pre-amp set to -27db and the zoom H2 on the lowest gain.
Went back to the internal mics for a while before deciding to buy a second hand Edirol R1, reports of great quality audio with poor build quality are fine because I'll only use the unit a few times a year.
With the church audio mics plugged in (to the mic port) (pre-amp left at home as there seemed no need for it) mic type set to CND, input levels coming up to below max on the peaks, as per instruction booklet. I was ready for my best quality recording to date, but no.
I listened to the recording of the support band, and it was a real mess, so for the main act i turning the input level down. No help, I just got a quiet distorted recording, rather than a loud distorted recording.
My question is very simple, what am I doing wrong? Can anyone help me figure out how I can get my equipment to work together?
Your help would be much appreciated
Thanks, Dave
Sounds like you have my b99 omni and st 20 preamp for $100 this rig is not really good for loud music recording its max spl is around 106 db give or take a few db's so if you want to upgrade to a better rig I will give you a credit of $70 towards a new rig provided that this gear is in good shape.
Chris
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Like the others said, don't leave your preamp at home. You will need to power the Church mics with 9V, the PIP provided by the recorder is far from adequate.
The H2 I've used for 3 years powers my CA-14 cards without any problems at all
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Sounds like you have my b99 omni and st 20 preamp for $100 this rig is not really good for loud music recording its max spl is around 106 db give or take a few db's so if you want to upgrade to a better rig I will give you a credit of $70 towards a new rig provided that this gear is in good shape.
Chris
Chris makes exceptionally good gear for the money. Unfortunately you bought a rig from his E-Bay site that is not designed for recording loud music. Nobody here uses that particular rig for taping music, but many use & love his ST-9100 or ST-9000 pre and his mics such as CA-14's and CA-11's. Don't buy from his E-Bay site again. Contact Chris here to work out the price of the gear you want (he can make recommendations too). It is also cheaper to buy from him by contacting him here-he gives discounted priced to tapersection members.