Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: natas43 on October 08, 2007, 04:34:12 PM
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I friend of mine in Brazil just bought an R-9 and was trying to decide what mics to get. He bought the R-9 to tape the Police and the Cure. My personal opinion would be CSBs (but I am partial since that is what I use-and I am currently not ready to experiment with other mics).
Any suggestions?
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I haven't had good luck with any CS gear.
I'd go with Church Audio mics with that budget with a pre-amp if going into the R-09.
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Thanks for that. +T. Anyone else have any ideas/opinions? Stealth is important.
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You could also consider these:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-2
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You could also consider these:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-2
I have an R-09 and a pair of these Sound Professionals SP-TFB-2
(http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/SP-TFB-2.jpg)
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2
they are a match made in heaven, they are powered by the R-09 plug-in power and so you need nothing else besides the binaurals and the R-09 (neat)...if you are recording concerts the standard-sensitivity (max input 120dB) model would probably be the go.
You can listen to various recordings made on them at Freesound...
http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/searchText.php
Type SP-TFB-2 into the search window, you need to be registered to download the high-quality versions.
digifish
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I haven't had good luck with any CS gear.
I'd go with Church Audio mics with that budget with a pre-amp if going into the R-09.
Go with the Church cards, and a standard battery box. No preamp needed. When the levels are high enough (basically any amplified music), mic in, low sens, sounds great. This is the perfect package.
Richard
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Using the preamp/gain in the R-09? I would strongly caution against it. Chris Church has package deals at a discount for both his mics and preamp.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,80054.0.html
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Using the preamp in the R-09? I would strongly caution against it. Chris Church has package deals at a discount for both his mics and preamp.
Why?
Log in, download and tell me what you can hear -
http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/searchText.php
Type SP-TFB-2 into the search window, there's 92 recordings to choose from.
(for those who have not used freesound, once you create an account you can download the high-quality versions. Click on the name of the file to open the detailed screen).
Look at it this way, the SP-TFB-2's is a $69 experiment, pocket money, what have you got to lose?
BTW: Here's an 'arena' recording using the SP-TFB-2's http://www.soundprofessionals.com/MP3files/CUSTOMERS/lonesome-death-of-hattie-carol.mp3 (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/MP3files/CUSTOMERS/lonesome-death-of-hattie-carol.mp3) I just wish I knew what he was singing? :)
digifish
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Using the preamp/gain in the R-09? I would strongly caution against it. Chris Church has package deals at a discount for both his mics and preamp.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,80054.0.html
The mic in analog stage of the R09 is top-notch IMO. (Mic input, low sens, agc off.) I've used it with a wide variety of gear including: AT822, Sennheiser MKE2, AT853, Church Cards, AKG CK91/93, and ... Beyerdynamic MC930. All sound great. (Visit www.soundmann.com for samples if you don't believe me.)
The only fault is if you have low input levels (eg., acoustic recording). In that case self-noise is a problem and you need an external pre. For low input levels, I've been using a minidisc (HiMD, PCM recording), and this works well too.
To improve the sound of the R09 you would have to step up to a "professional grade" preamp like the Grace V2 or SD MP2.
Richard
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R-09's input has too much noise for me:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm
A quality external preamp is what is needed. You may have good recordings right now with out a preamp, but they could be **substantially** improved.
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R-09's input has too much noise for me:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm
A quality external preamp is what is needed. You may have good recordings right now with out a preamp, but they could be **substantially** improved.
If you look at sonicstudios (excellent) writeup, preamp noise only becomes a factor in quiet recordings, like acoustic music, interviews, or ambient/nature stuff.
Yes, maybe my recordings could be improved, but I'm opting for a really simple setup -- just the Edirol R09 and mics. By the way, I've even run mics (AT853, hacked AT822, Sennheiser MKE2) directly with plug-in-power, without a battery box even.
Maybe I'll put a V2 in there eventually, but I'm not in a hurry. I'm going to get some more mics instead :).
Richard
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R-09's input has too much noise for me:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm
A quality external preamp is what is needed. You may have good recordings right now with out a preamp, but they could be **substantially** improved.
The guy is going to record rock concerts. The S/N ratio will be limited by the microphone not the pre-amps. There is no way in that environment the quality of the recording would be **substantially** improved by using a higher quality pre-amp. I'd be looking at microphone selection and placement as the biggest factor there. BTW I own a Sound Devices MixPre so I have compared the two. Yes the noise floor is lower with the MixPre, but I do mainly field recordings of nature sounds...in a rock concert I would not be concerned at all.
BTW: Those graphs show the inputs wound up to high levels 30! (max), in a concert they would be down around 8-15 in low-gain mode. There is absolutely no major issue with the R-09 internal mic pres for loud sources.
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/miclownp.gif)
That is on 30, highest gain on Low Sensitivity...that looks amazing to me for such an inexpensive recorder.
digifish
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I'd vote for the SP-CMC-4 (AT853)
Def one of my favorite mics right now, barring much more expensive models
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R-09's input has too much noise for me:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm
A quality external preamp is what is needed. You may have good recordings right now with out a preamp, but they could be **substantially** improved.
The guy is going to record rock concerts. The S/N ratio will be limited by the microphone not the pre-amps. There is no way in that environment the quality of the recording would be **substantially** improved by using a higher quality pre-amp. I'd be looking at microphone selection and placement as the biggest factor there. BTW I own a Sound Devices MixPre so I have compared the two. Yes the noise floor is lower with the MixPre, but I do mainly field recordings of nature sounds...in a rock concert I would not be concerned at all.
BTW: Those graphs show the inputs wound up to high levels 30! (max), in a concert they would be down around 8-15 in low-gain mode. There is absolutely no major issue with the R-09 internal mic pres for loud sources.
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/miclownp.gif)
That is on 30, highest gain on Low Sensitivity...that looks amazing to me for such an inexpensive recorder.
digifish
Exactly! I've run everything into this box and it sounds great. The only time I had trouble was running at AT822 at a very quiet acoustic show. In that case, I turned the gain up to #30, but the music only brought the levels up to -12dB or so.
Just for reference (see Sonic studios review) each level is 1dB. So the range is between 1 and 30dB of gain (not sure what zero really is, but the range is 1-30, and #0 is no input). Anything over #25 is adding enough preamp noise to go over the 16bit ADC noise floor. The ADC has a 15-16 bit noise floor.
So... if you run anywhere between #1 and #25 gain, at mic-in, low-sens, 16bit/44k it is going to work great!
Richard
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edit...read the R9 reveiw....all answered there.....ciao.
thanks.
ninjadave.
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I bought the Sound Professionals SP-TFB-2.
But I have a question. When using the edirol R09, don't you have to use preamp or bass roll off filter? Some say yes, some say no.
I used the Sound Professionals SP-TFB-2 with a microtrack and the recording came out overrecorded and distorted with bass even on the lowest recording settings. So i guess I should have used a bass roll off filter. Now I'm thinking of switching to an edirol. From your experience, when using the edirol an extra bass roll off filter would be needed?
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I bought the Sound Professionals SP-TFB-2.
But I have a question. When using the edirol R09, don't you have to use preamp or bass roll off filter? Some say yes, some say no.
I used the Sound Professionals SP-TFB-2 with a microtrack and the recording came out overrecorded and distorted with bass even on the lowest recording settings. So i guess I should have used a bass roll off filter. Now I'm thinking of switching to an edirol. From your experience, when using the edirol an extra bass roll off filter would be needed?
I have it on when I am doing nature/ambient work, so I would definitely have it on when recording in a club/concert.
This recording had the bass roll-off on...doesn't seem to hurt :)
http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/samplesViewSingle.php?id=34777
http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/samplesViewSingle.php?id=34765
Why do I use the bass roll-off? It cuts out the background rumble that seems ever-present in most ambient locations now a days :(
I have the high sensitivity models.
digifish
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Digifish, what bass roll off do you use/recommend? One from from sound professionals? Would this be a good choice : http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-11
Moerie
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Digifish, what bass roll off do you use/recommend? One from from sound professionals? Would this be a good choice : http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-11
Moerie
Just so we don't have crossed wires. The R-09 has a built in bass roll-off. When I use the SP binaurals I plug it straight into the R-09 using the plugin-mic power and (if desired) the high-pass filter in the r-09. I usually do filter the SP binaurals as there is a a fair amount of rumble in most locations I am recording.
I was saying that if you are in a club you probably want the normal-sensitivity SP models (I have high sensitivity) and to also use the high-pass filter on the R-09.
I have not used the SP battery module and filter as the R-09 doesn't need it. R-09 + SP binaurals = bliss.
digifish.