Topic: getting into recorded

[BklynBagel]

I'm looking to putting together my first recording rig. due to my budget of about $500 I'm sticking to the MD format. everyone i talk to suggests the sony MZ-R50. say whiles its older, its still a slamming recorder, and cheap to boot. for a mic someone told me Core does a good Binaural mic for $90 or a set of high-end i guess and a battery box for $260.

biggest thing i need help on is finding a good pre-amp and a battery box, since i probably will have to pass on the $260 Core set
any help would be amazing, and wondering what people think of this rig so far. granted it wont be AMAZING but if i can make good recordings i can enjoy at home thats fine by me

[Sean Gallemore]

do a search for giant squid binaural

[BklynBagel]

i dont see a set of Binaural. only omnidirectional and cardioid

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

My personal suggestion with a $500 budget:

CSB > Battery Box > JB3

The Core Sounds are $230. If you want the switchable battery box $260.

JB3 = $200 refirb w/ shipping (eBay).

That's $460(tops), so you can spend $40 on a nice little Lowe Pro bag.

I know the JB3 mic preamp sucks. but it's not *horrible*. You could always upgrade to the Deneke pre-amp / A/D later (or something similar).

Good thing about that setup is that if you upgrade to a full size preamp and mics later you can use the CSB > JB3 setup for Stealth.

I don't know about you but almost 50% of the shows I tape are stealth. It's nice to have the option.

Good luck,
MIKE B

PS. Trust me as EX-MiniDisc taper. The JB3 is AWESOME. So nice to be able to set my levels during the first song, and then go enjoy the show. Best $200 I've ever spent. Don't get an MD. You will regret it.

[Sean Gallemore]

i dont see a set of Binaural. only omnidirectional and cardioid

you are correct

omnidirectional it is!

I feel ashamed, although I was trying to emulate how I thought they listed them

[Chanher]

for less than $200 shipped, the jb3 wins hands down over MD.  I just switched from MD to jb3, well worth it.

that leaves you $300 for mics and mic power.  you could go core sounds setup, giant squid setup, as well as soundpro's set up with roughly similiar results. personally I recommend the at831's (sp-cmc-2) from www.soundprofessionals.com with their batt box, but that's because that's what I have and they are beyond satisfactory, I know schwillster will back me up.  

[mgleason007]

There's some Mraz shows with SP mics (i think the cmc 2's) > batt box > JB3 that Jon Koch taped.  They're up on the archive in 2003.  I liked them a lot and was considering going this route, but decided to go full rig instead.  Check 'em out and see if you like them!

[drumminj]

Nice Avatar, moke.  Man those things freak me out!  (then again, so does camel toe)

[teajay]

mics and battery box for sale in our very own yard sale for $200... that and the $200 for a JB3, you've got $100 for case/batteries or what have you...

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=16795

[drumminj]

To actually ADD something to this thread, I'd actually look to get a relatively cheap analog preamp.  You should be able to stay within budget.  I think you'll find it MUCH MUCH cleaner than using the mic preamp in the JB3.  The A/D in the JB3 isn't nearly as bad as the mic pre circuit.

It's a lot of boxes: mics->batt box->analog pre->JB3.  Not terrible, though.  I ran this for a bit, and really didn't think it was that bad. Walked away with some good tapes while I was at it, too.

J

[jimmc]

To actually ADD something to this thread, I'd actually look to get a relatively cheap analog preamp.  You should be able to stay within budget.  I think you'll find it MUCH MUCH cleaner than using the mic preamp in the JB3.  The A/D in the JB3 isn't nearly as bad as the mic pre circuit.

It's a lot of boxes: mics->batt box->analog pre->JB3.  Not terrible, though.  I ran this for a bit, and really didn't think it was that bad. Walked away with some good tapes while I was at it, too.

J

I agree.  I am currently running an analog Nakamichi MX100 into my JB3 and I think it sounds pretty nice.  I never did try out the JB3 mic pre, but I cant imagine it would compare to an external preamp.  Start w/ the analog pre, then upgrade to an AD-20 or UA-5 in the future.  Thats what I hope to do someday.
Jim

[BklynBagel]

first i wanna thank EVERYONE for helping. trying to put this rig together before Coachella, that show being my inspiration to get this done obviously.
so right now here is where it stands:
Mic: Giant squid Cardioid set/comes with battery box
I'd grab the pair of binaurals off the yard sale but they dont have the clips, which i'd need.
unit: JB3(can someone please list the full name so i can find it somewhere)
pre-amp: still looking for a suggestion

[Tenn Man]

 Creative Nomad Jukebox 3

You can find refurbished ones from Creative on eBay real cheap.

[BklynBagel]

ok I did the rundown on the NJB3. and at least for Coachella it doesn't fit the bill. says i get about 3 hours recording time and theres likely close to 8 hours of stuff there i'm looking to record. alternate suggestion?

also I've been looking at the pre-amps at soundpros site...which would someone recomend?

[mgleason007]

8 hours is going to be tough for anything I think.  Unless you go MD, which would be a huge pain for 8 hours with all of the discs you'd need.  If you go into the power forum there's a long thread about power options for the JB3.  What you could do is get a total of 3 batteries (the JB3 holds two) and swap one out during the show.  Should get you around 9 hours.

[mgleason007]

To actually ADD something to this thread, I'd actually look to get a relatively cheap analog preamp.  You should be able to stay within budget.  I think you'll find it MUCH MUCH cleaner than using the mic preamp in the JB3.  The A/D in the JB3 isn't nearly as bad as the mic pre circuit.

It's a lot of boxes: mics->batt box->analog pre->JB3.  Not terrible, though.  I ran this for a bit, and really didn't think it was that bad. Walked away with some good tapes while I was at it, too.

J

I'm confused.  I thought the whole point of a batt box was to bring the signal up to line level so you could go line in.

[leegeddy]

ok I did the rundown on the NJB3. and at least for Coachella it doesn't fit the bill. says i get about 3 hours recording time and theres likely close to 8 hours of stuff there i'm looking to record. alternate suggestion?

also I've been looking at the pre-amps at soundpros site...which would someone recomend?

hi;
if you're looking at Soundpro.com, you should reeeeeealy consider their stereo cardiod mics:  CMC-2 (usus AT831 cardioid capsules) or CMC-4 (uses AT853 capsules). i think they are around $150 for a pair. add a SP preamp and you're good to go.

marc

ps. forget the Squid, unless it's beer battered and fried.  

[BklynBagel]

ok I did the rundown on the NJB3. and at least for Coachella it doesn't fit the bill. says i get about 3 hours recording time and theres likely close to 8 hours of stuff there i'm looking to record. alternate suggestion?

also I've been looking at the pre-amps at soundpros site...which would someone recomend?

hi;
if you're looking at Soundpro.com, you should reeeeeealy consider their stereo cardiod mics:  CMC-2 (usus AT831 cardioid capsules) or CMC-4 (uses AT853 capsules). i think they are around $150 for a pair. add a SP preamp and you're good to go.

marc

ps. forget the Squid, unless it's beer battered and fried.  

sounds good! which pre-amp should i go with?

Gleason- talking about capacity on its HD not battery time

I'm figuring theres about 8 acts I'm looking to tape over the 2 days..wouldn't be too big of an ordeal to say have an MD ready and 4 on hand for the day...but I think I'm gonna lean to the NBJ3...i should be able to tape 2-3 GOOD bands and that would be nothing to shabby to walk away with

oh can anyone think of a case to house that monster?

[BklynBagel]

just curious what GB size people here use of the NJB3

[drumminj]

I'm confused.  I thought the whole point of a batt box was to bring the signal up to line level so you could go line in.

Nope, batt box itself is responsible for powering the mics.  Now, sound pros and others make batt boxes with built-in preamps and bass rolloff, but the typical battery box is simply providing 9V or something similar to your mics.  You need a preamp to actually raise the level. Powering the mics just lowers the noise floor and allows greater SPL-handling.

J

[BklynBagel]

Skalinders JB3 guide;
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=14;action=display;threadid=16338

thanks Moke!
i read through it, and unless I'm an idiot(which is possible) it doesn't tell you along any lines what HD will give you how much time..BUT it did say 3 hours PER recording. so i can record one band, and start a new one

[jimmc]

As far as NJB3 capacity goes, figure it this way:  An 80 min CD is 700 megabytes.  A 20gig JB3 will hold approx the same as amout of data as 28.5 80 min cds.  You will have plenty of room on the 20gig JB3.  Plus, you could aways buy the 40gig to double your capacity.
Jim
I have both a MD and JB3, and now my MD is strictly for backup.  sometimes I dont even bother to bring it with me.  JB3 should be perfect for you.  Buy the 3 batteries total (it comes with 1) and swap 1 of them out after about 5 hours and you should be fine.  I just recorded 2-1/2 hours of ABB, then 2 hours of Deep Fried in the same night recording .wav @48 with no problem.
+T for getting started.

[mgleason007]

An 80 min CD is 700 megabytes.

This is actually incorrect.  An 80 min CD can hold MUCH more than 700 MB's worth of wav's (burned as an audio CD).  I don't know off-hand but it's more than 800 MB's.  Point being that 700 MB's of wav's is less than 80 mins.  I'm too lazy to figure it out right now, but I know it's quite a bit less.

Yes, it's 3 hours per recording session, definitely not total.  If you need to quickly advance to another recording just press the forward button.  The 20 GB hard drive will hold about 33 hours for you, I think.  I calculated it before and I think I remember it coming out to 11 hours per day for a three day festival.  If you dig further into the archive section there's a post with how many MB/min PCM audio takes up.  It's not hard to figure out that the JB3 will hold a lot more than 8 hours.

[mgleason007]

Well I'll just type it out...

2 channels X 16 bits/sample X 44100 samples/second X 1 byte/8 bits X 1KB/1024 bytes X 1 MB/1024 KB X 60 s/1 min= 10.1 MB/min.

[jimmc]

If I was wrong, sorry, I had an 80min CDR in front of me that says it is a 700mb capacity.  Thats were I did my math from.  Either way, you will be able to fit all that you need on the JB3.
Jim - Bad at math

[Brian Skalinder]

i read through it, and unless I'm an idiot(which is possible) it doesn't tell you along any lines what HD will give you how much time.

True.  FAQ updated.  

[mgleason007]

If I was wrong, sorry, I had an 80min CDR in front of me that says it is a 700mb capacity.  Thats were I did my math from.  Either way, you will be able to fit all that you need on the JB3.
Jim - Bad at math

Very true.  Just didn't want to spread misinformation .  If you grab an 80 min CD and rip it it will come out to around 800 MB or so.  Confusing, I know.  Also know that if you burn a CD as a VCD, it will also hold more than 700 MB's.

[BklynBagel]

WOW ok capacity isn't a problem.

THANKS EVERYONE!!!
so as of now gonna do a 20gb NJB3(approx $200)
SP CMC-2 Cardioid mic set ($119)
now SP does a batter box and Pre-amp all in one...doe it make sense to do that or buy them seperately?

[Chanher]

the batt box/preamp combo has subtle advantage over just a batt box.  you'll be able to make a quality recording with either, so if you can afford the preamp option you might as well, just remember it is not absolutely necessary.

a seperate preamp, like an ad20 or a ua-5, is a much more noticeable difference.  it looks like you'd have to save some more for those, you can upgrade later if you like.

[mgleason007]

now SP does a batter box and Pre-amp all in one...doe it make sense to do that or buy them seperately?

Depends.  If you're going to stop here, it will be easier to get an all-in-one (one box, one battery).  But if you're going to want to upgrade your preamp later, it will obviously be easier if it's seperate from your batt box.  Of course you could just spend $40 on a new batt box if it comes to that.

[BklynBagel]

the batt box/preamp combo has subtle advantage over just a batt box.  you'll be able to make a quality recording with either, so if you can afford the preamp option you might as well, just remember it is not absolutely necessary.

a seperate preamp, like an ad20 or a ua-5, is a much more noticeable difference.  it looks like you'd have to save some more for those, you can upgrade later if you like.

well the SP batt box/pre-amp combo runs about $260. for that much would i be able to get both?

[BklynBagel]

ok i looked on SP they do a batt box for $60 and a pre-amp for $170

so as of now the hypathetical rig looks like this:

NJB3 20gb
SP-Preamp
SP Battery Box
SP-CMC-2 Mic

gonna run me about $540, I'd dare roll it over to $600 when all is said and done. how does this look? am i gonna get good bang for my buck and get hopefully better then decent recordings? also wondering where i can find a case, cause I'm sure sneaking in a NJB3 and 2 boxes is going to be a chore

thanks again everyone for all the help

[Sean Gallemore]

the preamp is built into the battery box, only making for one extra box

huh uh huh, he said box

[Chanher]

a while ago I asked about the soundpros preamp.  I only got a few replies, but all of them weren't too praising about it.  the general consensus was that while it will make a difference, it will not mean the difference between a good tape and a great tape.  get whatever you want though, I'm sure you'll have a blast...

[Chanher]

the preamp is built into the battery box, only making for one extra box

huh uh huh, he said box

soundpros' also makes what they call a preamp/power supply:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=540&item=SP-PREAMP&type=store

so actually you wouldn't need a batt box with that.  but they also sell a batt box with preamp:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=310&item=SP-SPSB-1&type=store

pretty confusing.  I have no idea if there a difference between the two, except $

[Sean Gallemore]

what the hell, they do the same thing.  Does SP have their heads up their asses on this one or am I missing something.  Either way, I'd go with line transformers or something.

[George]

I have that sp batt box/preamp, i used the preamp once with my MD recording a radiohead concert and the recording was facked.  Even tho the meter's on my MD we're still pretty low.  I also used it when i recorded the Neil Young show and got the same results (distortion).  So, IMHO, the preamp is useless unless you use mics that have phantom power, the 9v config doesn't seem able to handle the preamp (which has two selections: 29db and 50db).

All IMHO of course...

[dklein]

I have that sp batt box/preamp, i used the preamp once with my MD recording a radiohead concert and the recording was facked.  Even tho the meter's on my MD we're still pretty low.  I also used it when i recorded the Neil Young show and got the same results (distortion).  So, IMHO, the preamp is useless unless you use mics that have phantom power, the 9v config doesn't seem able to handle the preamp (which has two selections: 29db and 50db).

All IMHO of course...

You were probably overloading the md preamp with the gain of the sp preamp.  Were you plugged into mic-in or line-in?  What preamp gain setting?  50dB is an awful lot of gain.

Also, not that you're going this way, but do not bother using CSBs and a JB3.  The CSB output is way too low without a preamp.  Even at the loudest shows.

[George]

I have that sp batt box/preamp, i used the preamp once with my MD recording a radiohead concert and the recording was facked.  Even tho the meter's on my MD we're still pretty low.  I also used it when i recorded the Neil Young show and got the same results (distortion).  So, IMHO, the preamp is useless unless you use mics that have phantom power, the 9v config doesn't seem able to handle the preamp (which has two selections: 29db and 50db).

All IMHO of course...

You were probably overloading the md preamp with the gain of the sp preamp.  Were you plugged into mic-in or line-in?  What preamp gain setting?  50dB is an awful lot of gain.

Line in and the preamp was set to 29db.  

[dklein]

hmmm...not sure.  Maybe even the +29dB is too heavy?

[George]

hmmm...not sure.  Maybe even the +29dB is too heavy?

Yeah, most definitely...apparently the soundpro mics with the battery box can't handle it at all.  I imagine my modded phantom mics will do better.

[BklynBagel]

lol now i'm lost cause nobody seems to be too high on the SP pre-amp. where can i find a good one in the same price range?

[Chanher]

you could just go mics > batt box > jb3 and use that extra money to start saving for a digimod ua-5 ($295) or a ad20 or something.  if you are gonna get a preamp at soundpro's, get whichever one is cheaper since nobody knows which is better.

[snoknight]

 SP-CMC-8 - SOUND PROFESSIONALS - PREMIUM AUDIO TECHNICA SLIMLINE STEREO MICROPHONES standard mini rotating clips [Add $ 20]
Add battery power module with bass roll off SP-SPSB-6
Add Large Audio Technica windscreens (one pair) [Add $ 10]
 pickup pattern Cardioid

 

 
 that is the mics, cardioid for stealth cause i hate loud local noise or the regular joe trying to converse with me.
as for recorders... nomads are nice but with out a pre...? low dB.
minidisks... yes they compress the sound a bit, but they record for 16 hrs on a AA batt, (so they claim) its more like 8 hrs depending on brand.
Sharp imported (http://www.minidisco.com/md-mt280s.html) is the only brand with a powered mic line input anymore (f*#% up industry) about 3 volts it can run omni capsule mics ok... but with the SP-SPSB-6, 9 volt power supply added with the Mic powered input makes about 12 volts or so, this is perfect for this audio technica mic cause it wants 11 volts phantom power. ajusted just right between the box and the MD and you will get very good recordings at almost any distance or sound pressure level, the bass rolloff in the box is for the increased bass effect that cardioids display at closer distances, never had to use that though... well once... regretfully un needed..
this has worked well for years for me, yea there are regrets... like if only i had more than $600.00 to initially spend, like 2000.00 a piece for mics a 300.00 phantom a 500.00 pre (stealth) 1200.00 for phantom and 2000.00 for a preamp (standard rig) then maby a nomad, IBM or apple laptop.
my 2600.00 compaq works well though.
hope i helped
Dave
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Ray76]

you could just go mics > batt box > jb3 and use that extra money to start saving for a digimod ua-5 ($295) or a ad20 or something.  if you are gonna get a preamp at soundpro's, get whichever one is cheaper since nobody knows which is better.

I am taking two rigs to wilco, one of which is a core sounds stealth cardoids>sp preamp>jb3
and the other is the sp-cmc-2>batt box>jb3

so I can give you a report after sunday. I cant take my ad-20 cuz i dont have that mini>xlr cable and cant take the ua-5 to my c-4s cuz the damn battery (for ua-5)(which i paid overnight fees for) didnt arrive in time
Aah..choices.

hopefully one of these two rigs will be ok.I will have tapes up of both sources hopefully, unlessi get struck dead.

Ray
Ray!

[F.O.Bean]

thought you werent going ray

[sickrick43]

I will have tapes up of both sources hopefully, unlessi get struck dead.

Ray
Ray!

One can only hope...

So much for non "dramatic bitchy exits", eh?  You've got to hold the RECORD for quickest return, of the people that SWORE they were leaving this board...

Pitiful...

Rick

[Ray76]

thought you werent going ray

Yeah, I got a new ticket, couldnt make the first wilco show but will catch the second one in Barcelona. I was pissed cuz my ua5 battery wasnt here, and just didnt go the first time. I lost 515 bucks in the process, so thats stings a little. Im about to go to the airport in a few minutes. Yeah im goin. I am entitled to change my mind, hoss.
Ray

[Ray76]

I will have tapes up of both sources hopefully, unlessi get struck dead.

Ray
Ray!

One can only hope...

So much for non "dramatic bitchy exits", eh?  You've got to hold the RECORD for quickest return, of the people that SWORE they were leaving this board...

Pitiful...

Rick

Aah Rick, Its flattering that you take vested interest in me. BTW, that habit you have of USING capitals EVERY 3rd WORD is sexy. I pray for you every day bud. Thats the truth. I want to get mad and just wail on you, but I cant do that. I have in the past, and I have felt bad for it. I really wish you the best. You sound like a very unhappy person.+T
Ray

[hexyjones]

Oh god - not since the "Stacey" incident on the Jackmormons group - !

Whoever mentioned "blog" was right on target...

Imagine if all 8000 memebers of TS.com were as needy as bIGrAY!!!

[sickrick43]

Oh god - not since the "Stacey" incident on the Jackmormons group - !

Whoever mentioned "blog" was right on target...

Imagine if all 8000 memebers of TS.com were as needy as bIGrAY!!!

Ding!!!

You hit it right on the head (and it was I who mentioned blog).  It's pretty obvious when your SIG is longer than any "useful information" that you impart in your messages (notice how quickly he changed all the masturbation references in his sig, after I brought them to his attention). 

Combine that, with his "dramatic bitchy exit" that he posted, not even 48 hours ago, claiming he would NOT be making a "dramatic bitchy exit", and the fact that he couldn't even wait 12 hours to post again (so much for "leaving because some people think I'm a liar), only further illustrates his "neediness".  Most intelligent folks (who weren't psychotic co-dependents) would at least change thier handle, or register a new name (like some of the nymshifters here) so they wouldn't appear so damn stupid for not being able to stay away for more than 5 minutes. Yes Ray, ppl PM'd me when they saw you online, looking for reactions/words of support in your "I'm Outta Here" thread.  Too bad there were so few wails of sympathy for you there (reminds me of that Dylan-Fest @ MSG when Sinead O'Conner got boo'd off the stage). It surprised even me, that he waited almost 12 hours to post again - musta had to go to sick-call over the anxiety.

Then again, I think I hold the ts.com censorship record - 3 locked threads, and one DELETED thread in less than a 24 hour period - quit crying to the mods Ray, and just clean up your act.

And the most insulting of all - the faked "christian goodness/cheek turning act".  Don't pray for me Ray - my god (who just happens to be your gods DADDY) see's thru that "born-again-hippocrite act".  It pisses HIM off, worse than it pisses ME off.  And KEEP your friggin +T's - my sense of self-worth doesn't revolve around them like yours does.  The mere fact that I GAINED 15 of them the other nite after my post(s) (until your "apostles" got busy again) more than illustrates what folks think about my level of honesty (even though even I will admit that it can get obnoxious at times).

Good eye there Hexy - first person to notice the pattern of behavior (and actually comment in public about it).  +T to you for having a sack.

And +t to you Ray - backatchadudebud...

Rick

Sorry for the thread hi-jack.  Ray isn't qualified to give gear advice anyway, since he's never actually USED his.  He just needed a place to post, where he thought he wouldn't be noticed.

[Ray76]

 

All the best rick.

[Brian Skalinder]

Then again, I think I hold the ts.com censorship record - 3 locked threads, and one DELETED thread in less than a 24 hour period - quit crying to the mods Ray, and just clean up your act.

FWIW, Ray had nothing to do with moderating Rick's posts - he contacted me not once.

Perhaps if you didn't spew forth such incessant, vindictive, personally attacking blather, we wouldn't moderate and/or lock your posts.  With your tedious drivel, you're making an even bigger ass out of your self than you claim Rick has of himself.  For the umpteenth time, Rick, I wearily ask once again:  let it go.

[F.O.Bean]

thought you werent going ray

Yeah, I got a new ticket, couldnt make the first wilco show but will catch the second one in Barcelona. I was pissed cuz my ua5 battery wasnt here, and just didnt go the first time. I lost 515 bucks in the process, so thats stings a little. Im about to go to the airport in a few minutes. Yeah im goin. I am entitled to change my mind, hoss.
Ray

its cool, just wondering

damn man, i would NEVER lose 515 dollars like that, think of the gear you could have bought!

[Ray76]

thought you werent going ray

Yeah, I got a new ticket, couldnt make the first wilco show but will catch the second one in Barcelona. I was pissed cuz my ua5 battery wasnt here, and just didnt go the first time. I lost 515 bucks in the process, so thats stings a little. Im about to go to the airport in a few minutes. Yeah im goin. I am entitled to change my mind, hoss.
Ray

yessir. Sitting here in spain right now. relaxing.
Been needing a break from work, and thank God im here.

big weight off my shoulders.


Ray