Topic: Advice on DPA 4061

[u2_fly_2]

Hello all fellow tapers,

After 12 years with the same 3 different mic´s/batterboxes/recorders...all very good...

Sorry if some questions are obvious, yet better to "doublecheck" and be safe than sorry...

I´m looking at maybe getting DPA 4061-stereo mic´s and was wondering if you have photos of your taping rig´s and most important suggestions for which batterybox/digital recorder to go with it?

At the moment I´m using this taping rig "chain" (Very good "Stealth rig"):
(If possible I would like something as close to this rig to go with the DPA 4061´s)

AT 943 External Stereo Microphones >> SP-SPSB-10-80020 - Sound Professionals - Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery >> Olympus LS-10



As I have a R-26 myself this would be an option too, even though the LS-10 is ofcourse easier to "stealth" with.

1) Can I run the DPA 4061´s directly into the R-26 or would I benefit with/from a batterybox?

2) Can I run the DPA 4061´s >> 
SP-SPSB-10-80020 - Sound Professionals - Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery >> Olympus LS-10

Or is this impossible?

3) Can I get the DPA 4061´s modified as the AT 943´s...I mean in 1 stereo-cable?

If not too much hassle, photos of your taping rig´s with DPA 4061´s would be really appreciated + extended info/suggestions:

Many thanks for all info!
Appreciate your help!

E-Mail:

inconcertsitrust@yahoo.com

/ Danne

[fandelive]

It's alot easier to get good results when stealthing with cards.

Omnis do work well in small venues, when the room is build for good acoustics, when the mix is mono and you can get as close as possible to a stack, when sound out of the speaker is top notch and people around you shut the fuck up.

It happens. 1% of the time.

I tape with both omnis and cards. Most of the time I prefer the cards source. Also, you better learn some EQ tricks if you want to start using omnis, because a raw stealth tape done with omnis needs alot more post production.

Ugly truth.

[u2_fly_2]

It's alot easier to get good results when stealthing with cards.

Omnis do work well in small venues, when the room is build for good acoustics, when the mix is mono and you can get as close as possible to a stack, when sound out of the speaker is top notch and people around you shut the fuck up.

It happens. 1% of the time.

I tape with both omnis and cards. Most of the time I prefer the cards source. Also, you better learn some EQ tricks if you want to start using omnis, because a raw stealth tape done with omnis needs alot more post production.

Ugly truth.

Thanks for the input.

[jerryfreak]

It's alot easier to get good results when stealthing with cards.

Omnis do work well in small venues, when the room is build for good acoustics, when the mix is mono and you can get as close as possible to a stack, when sound out of the speaker is top notch and people around you shut the fuck up.

It happens. 1% of the time.

I tape with both omnis and cards. Most of the time I prefer the cards source. Also, you better learn some EQ tricks if you want to start using omnis, because a raw stealth tape done with omnis needs alot more post production.

Ugly truth.

this to a large extent. there are directional caps the same size as the 406x series but none really have the same sound as the larger directional caps, seems they are thin on the bottom end, probably due to proximity effect. that said when the 4061s are in the right spot, they sound amazing. but the omni patterns is their achilles heel. best you can do is have some wingmen and maybe try to mount them on your chest to offer some resistance against people behind you.

if you want to hear the directional small caps listen to some 4099 recordings from dime. theres a few neil young and a marcus king among others

i really think the ideal setup would be a pair of 4099s and a pair of 4061s, or single 4061 even. 4 mics are still smaller than a pair of most others, and you could pull out the low end from the omni mic(s) with almost no crowd noise, and use it to fill in the clear stereo pull from the 4099s 


you can put any cable you want on the 4061s but if you want to run them straight from PIP, get the 3V 4063 version and you can run it directly from a edirol R07 or others. i like my d:vice>iphone setup but thats another $600. a good recorder is $200 anyway, and the d:vice+iphone always gets in the door at least

[u2_fly_2]

It's alot easier to get good results when stealthing with cards.

Omnis do work well in small venues, when the room is build for good acoustics, when the mix is mono and you can get as close as possible to a stack, when sound out of the speaker is top notch and people around you shut the fuck up.

It happens. 1% of the time.

I tape with both omnis and cards. Most of the time I prefer the cards source. Also, you better learn some EQ tricks if you want to start using omnis, because a raw stealth tape done with omnis needs alot more post production.

Ugly truth.

this to a large extent. there are directional caps the same size as the 406x series but none really have the same sound as the larger directional caps, seems they are thin on the bottom end, probably due to proximity effect. that said when the 4061s are in the right spot, they sound amazing. but the omni patterns is their achilles heel. best you can do is have some wingmen and maybe try to mount them on your chest to offer some resistance against people behind you.

if you want to hear the directional small caps listen to some 4099 recordings from dime. theres a few neil young and a marcus king among others

i really think the ideal setup would be a pair of 4099s and a pair of 4061s, or single 4061 even. 4 mics are still smaller than a pair of most others, and you could pull out the low end from the omni mic(s) with almost no crowd noise, and use it to fill in the clear stereo pull from the 4099s 


you can put any cable you want on the 4061s but if you want to run them straight from PIP, get the 3V 4063 version and you can run it directly from a edirol R07 or others. i like my d:vice>iphone setup but thats another $600. a good recorder is $200 anyway, and the d:vice+iphone always gets in the door at least

Many thanks for the info!

[Gutbucket]

Rather than opine about which approach is subjectively most appropriate, I'll do my best to answer the question you posed-

The gear you already have will power a pair of DPA 4061.   What you need to do is decide how you want to connect the microphones to the battery box (a battery-box or preamp is required when using 4060 or 4061), or connect directly to the recorder (which as jerryfreak mentions, is an possibility when using 4063).

As supplied by DPA, each microphone terminates to a single miniature co-axial micro-dot connector, but you need a stereo-mini-plug termination to connect with the battery box or recorder input.  One option is to chop off the microdot ends and re-terminate the microphone pair to a single stereo-mini-plug.  That requires soldering the very fine center connector.  If you are not adept at making cable connections and soldering fine wires in particular, you'll need to find someone to do that for you.  The other option is making or having someone make a 'Y' adapter cable with two female microdot input legs connected to a stereo-mini-plug output.  Details are in the DPA threads.   Last I looked this was not an item found which could be found online and bought premade, but that may have changed.

Third option, which would allow you to use the microphones immediately with the recorder you already have, is to buy a new pair (or find a used pair) of Core Sound "high end binaurals".  Those are matched DPA 4060 or 4061 already terminated to a single stereo-mini-jack and include an in-line matching battery-box.

Fourth option is to use the DPA d:vice preamp/ADC which has a pair micro-dot inputs and USB output to Iphone.  No adapters needed, but you'd need the d:vice and Iphone as well as the pair of mics.

[u2_fly_2]

Rather than opine about which approach is subjectively most appropriate, I'll do my best to answer the question you posed-

The gear you already have will power a pair of DPA 4061.   What you need to do is decide how you want to connect the microphones to the battery box (a battery-box or preamp is required when using 4060 or 4061), or connect directly to the recorder (which as jerryfreak mentions, is an possibility when using 4063).

As supplied by DPA, each microphone terminates to a single miniature co-axial micro-dot connector, but you need a stereo-mini-plug termination to connect with the battery box or recorder input.  One option is to chop off the microdot ends and re-terminate the microphone pair to a single stereo-mini-plug.  That requires soldering the very fine center connector.  If you are not adept at making cable connections and soldering fine wires in particular, you'll need to find someone to do that for you.  The other option is making or having someone make a 'Y' adapter cable with two female microdot input legs connected to a stereo-mini-plug output.  Details are in the DPA threads.   Last I looked this was not an item found which could be found online and bought premade, but that may have changed.

Third option, which would allow you to use the microphones immediately with the recorder you already have, is to buy a new pair (or find a used pair) of Core Sound "high end binaurals".  Those are matched DPA 4060 or 4061 already terminated to a single stereo-mini-jack and include an in-line matching battery-box.

Fourth option is to use the DPA d:vice preamp/ADC which has a pair micro-dot inputs and USB output to Iphone.  No adapters needed, but you'd need the d:vice and Iphone as well as the pair of mics.

Many thanks Gutbucket for the extensive information!

I´ll check option 3-4.

One question:
Will the batterybox (>> SP-SPSB-10-80020 - Sound Professionals - Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery)  I have now be enough in combination with the Core Sound 4061-option?

12vdc should handled the Core Sound 4061´s?

Many thanks again!

[Gutbucket]

Will the batterybox (>> SP-SPSB-10-80020 - Sound Professionals - Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery)  I have now be enough in combination with the Core Sound 4061-option?

12vdc should handled the Core Sound 4061´s?

The Core Sound version includes its own battery box, so you would not need your SP battery box if going that route.

A supply voltage of between 5-10V is optimal for all miniature DPAs except the lower voltage 4063. 12V is the very uppermost limit for them and many folks report that they work fine with that supply voltage, but a battery box with a lower output voltage will be safer. Len at Core Sound has posted that 12V is uncomfortably close to the limit and is in danger of burning them up. 

I use Church Audio preamps and Niaint PFAs to power them, both of which produce about 8-9VDC, or the DPA XLR adapters which produce about 5-6VDC I think (would have to measure them again to be sure). 

[edit]- I use the Church Audio preamps into small handheld recorders.  I use the Niaint PFAs and DPA XLR adapters into recorders with XLR inputs and 12-48V phantom power.

[u2_fly_2]

Many thanks Gutbucket!

I sent you a PM with one more question.

[junkyardt]

instead of the sp-spsb-10, you can get the sp-spsb-8 to solve the voltage problem.

https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-8-MKII

[u2_fly_2]

instead of the sp-spsb-10, you can get the sp-spsb-8 to solve the voltage problem.

https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-8-MKII

Many thanks Junkyardt!

I´ll bookmark that page and probably order one of those batteryboxes when/if I get the DPA 4061´s!

[ilduclo]

I don’t think Coresounds come with a power supply unless you pay extra. I agree that Soundpros is a good company to get power supply boxes.

[Gutbucket]

spsb-8 will work and is a much safer option for powering DPAs than the spsb-10 you are currently using.  I'd recommend the switch.

Best to either re-terminate the microphones or use a 'Y' adapter as mentioned for use with that battery box just like any other using a single stereo-mini-input, but the option of two mono inputs on the spsb-8 .. Two mono (left and right) in-line, gold plated microphone input jacks or a single stereo input (select in option box)" ..in combination with a pair of off-the-shelf-available mono microdot>mini-plug adapters will also work without requiring mic-retermination or a custom 'Y' adapter.  DPA makes such mono adapters although they are rather costly.  Functionally equivalent versions can be found from other on-line sources at less cost.

The drawback of that solution is two additional connection points in the signal path and having the adapters clunking around in pocket.  I'd probably gaff tape them to keep them secure.

[Gutbucket]

I don’t think Coresounds come with a power supply unless you pay extra. I agree that Soundpros is a good company to get power supply boxes.

Coresound does include the power supply battery box. 

Core also provides a replacement option for mics without the power supply, yet an existing Core battery-box is required to use those.  Alternate battery boxes cannot be used with the Core mics without a custom adapter 'Y' that would to mate with the single mini-XLR Core uses to handle both input and output from the battery box.

[u2_fly_2]

I don’t think Coresounds come with a power supply unless you pay extra. I agree that Soundpros is a good company to get power supply boxes.

Thanks ilduclo for your advice!

[u2_fly_2]

I don’t think Coresounds come with a power supply unless you pay extra. I agree that Soundpros is a good company to get power supply boxes.

Coresound does include the power supply battery box. 

Core also provides a replacement option for mics without the power supply, yet an existing Core battery-box is required to use those.  Alternate battery boxes cannot be used with the Core mics without a custom adapter 'Y' that would to mate with the single mini-XLR Core uses to handle both input and output from the battery box.

Thanks Gutbucket for your advice!

I´m saving all your info in a "Wordfile" as a good "checkpoint" the day I´ll buy the 4061`s!

[junkyardt]

spsb-8 will work and is a much safer option for powering DPAs than the spsb-10 you are currently using.  I'd recommend the switch.

Best to either re-terminate the microphones or use a 'Y' adapter as mentioned for use with that battery box just like any other using a single stereo-mini-input, but the option of two mono inputs on the spsb-8 .. Two mono (left and right) in-line, gold plated microphone input jacks or a single stereo input (select in option box)" ..in combination with a pair of off-the-shelf-available mono microdot>mini-plug adapters will also work without requiring mic-retermination or a custom 'Y' adapter.  DPA makes such mono adapters although they are rather costly.  Functionally equivalent versions can be found from other on-line sources at less cost.

Gutbucket, if it's not too much trouble, could you provide links to both the DPA official mono adapter and/or the off-brand versions you're aware of? I'd like to price these out myself. FYI, darktrain was the primary source for the Y adapter, and he's no longer doing them (or any cables). Getting the Y adapter made (i.e. buying a microdot-microdot cable, cutting it in half and reterminating the cut ends into an 1/8" plug) may not be as easy now as it was back when darktrain was doing it.

[Gutbucket]

The prefered DPA one would be DAD3050 https://www.dpamicrophones.com/accessories/adapter-for-toa-wm360-4310-for-low-dc-microphones which sells for $100 a piece. 
DPA wires the TRS end with the Ring connection open (signal to Tip, ground to Sleeve).

The other DPA adapter which is may work as long as it fits whatever you are plugging it into is the DAD6034 https://www.dpamicrophones.com/accessories/adapter-for-sennheiser-evolution-x2-digital with the threaded ferrule used to lock it into place.  You'd not use the threaded ferrule part, and it would need to "stay out of the way" of whatever you are plugging into.  DPA wires this one with signal to Tip, and ground to both Ring and Sleeve.

Check with Sound Pros to make sure which are compatible with the input to their SPSB-8 battery box (I suspect they both probably are).

There seem to be more of the second than the first from alternate lower-cost copies suppliers online:

Here's one for half that price- https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/969392-REG/micw_lc031se_microdot_to_mini.html/?ap=y&gclid=Cj0KCQjwg73kBRDVARIsAF-kEH_H5dI2OQA0nZ5ZDwwppbo232Y7fN5XNpePElQl0AtzOxNEyO54eQUaAjeTEALw_wcB&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=Y

Here's one for $30 https://www.ypamicrophones.com/products/ypa-c4sn-2-microdot-adapter

You can search Ebay, some of which will be "pig-tail style" using a short length of cable between the two connectors:
Two examples (non threaded ferrule style):
https://picclick.co.uk/MICROPHONE-ADAPTER-FOR-DPA-COUNTRYMAN-MICRODOT-TO-TOA-302556375509.html
https://picclick.co.uk/MICROPHONE-ADAPTER-FOR-DPA-COUNTRYMAN-MICRODOT-TO-35mm-272971731675.html

^
There are only 2 conductors needed per microphone- signal and ground. Depending on how the female jack of the battery box is wired, a TS mini plug should be sufficient.  A TRS mini plug (3-contact stereo mini style) also works and is more common.  DPA wires the TRS adapters with the Ring connection either open or grounded, depending on the wireless transmitter the adapter is intended to be used with, as I note above.

 

[junkyardt]

The prefered DPA one would be DAD3050 https://www.dpamicrophones.com/accessories/adapter-for-toa-wm360-4310-for-low-dc-microphones which sells for $100 a piece. 
DPA wires the TRS end with the Ring connection open (signal to Tip, ground to Sleeve).

The other DPA adapter which is may work as long as it fits whatever you are plugging it into is the DAD6034 https://www.dpamicrophones.com/accessories/adapter-for-sennheiser-evolution-x2-digital with the threaded ferrule used to lock it into place.  You'd not use the threaded ferrule part, and it would need to "stay out of the way" of whatever you are plugging into.  DPA wires this one with signal to Tip, and ground to both Ring and Sleeve.

Check with Sound Pros to make sure which are compatible with the input to their SPSB-8 battery box (I suspect they both probably are).

There seem to be more of the second than the first from alternate lower-cost copies suppliers online:

Here's one for half that price- https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/969392-REG/micw_lc031se_microdot_to_mini.html/?ap=y&gclid=Cj0KCQjwg73kBRDVARIsAF-kEH_H5dI2OQA0nZ5ZDwwppbo232Y7fN5XNpePElQl0AtzOxNEyO54eQUaAjeTEALw_wcB&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=Y

Here's one for $30 https://www.ypamicrophones.com/products/ypa-c4sn-2-microdot-adapter

You can search Ebay, some of which will be "pig-tail style" using a short length of cable between the two connectors:
Two examples (non threaded ferrule style):
https://picclick.co.uk/MICROPHONE-ADAPTER-FOR-DPA-COUNTRYMAN-MICRODOT-TO-TOA-302556375509.html
https://picclick.co.uk/MICROPHONE-ADAPTER-FOR-DPA-COUNTRYMAN-MICRODOT-TO-35mm-272971731675.html

^
There are only 2 conductors needed per microphone- signal and ground. Depending on how the female jack of the battery box is wired, a TS mini plug should be sufficient.  A TRS mini plug (3-contact stereo mini style) also works and is more common.  DPA wires the TRS adapters with the Ring connection either open or grounded, depending on the wireless transmitter the adapter is intended to be used with, as I note above.

Thanks for the long post! Very helpful. Never would've found that ypa site on my own. $30 is a lot easier to stomach than $100, especially when you're buying 2. $100 for a tiny little adapter like that is highway robbery.

[ilduclo]

Coresound does include the power supply battery box. 

 

not so, you can get a dpa set from Len for less without the box

[Gutbucket]

No need to guess or "think" before posting, just check the website.

I don’t think Coresounds come with a power supply unless you pay extra. I agree that Soundpros is a good company to get power supply boxes.

Coresound does include the power supply battery box. 

Core also provides a replacement option for mics without the power supply, yet an existing Core battery-box is required to use those.  Alternate battery boxes cannot be used with the Core mics without a custom adapter 'Y' that would to mate with the single mini-XLR Core uses to handle both input and output from the battery box.
 

not so, you can get a dpa set from Len for less without the box

Yes so.  And of course you can get a replacement set without the box, but that won't work for OP as a replacement set of Core Sound HEBs are only compatible with the Core Sound battery box, which the OP does not have. I've bolded the second line of my post you deleted from your quote above explaining that. Here's the purchase page, take a look for yourself- http://core-sound.com/bk/11.php

What is not listed on the website are a straight microdot pair of 4061 without any of the unique Core Sound termination.  Len will sell them that way if you ask.  He'll probably also re-terminate the pair to a stereo mini plug at additional cost if you ask.  I can only assume this might be what you are obliquely referring to.  Core Sound Binaurals is a system which requires either the Core Sound battery box or Len's preamp, without those things they are not "Core Sounds" per se, but DPAs that were simply matched and sold by Core.

[u2_fly_2]

Many thanks for info regarding different options.

I also sent a e-mail to "Core Sound" with some additional questions. We´ll see which options they have.

[junkyardt]

Btw, as far as the y-cable option, I checked with Sound Pros and they will make it for $25 (standard 1/8" plug) or $30 (right angle 1/8" plug). That includes labor. So then you just need to order the cable from cdint and send it to them. A 2-foot cable from cdint with the cheapest shipping option is $64, so accounting for the cost of shipping the cable to Sound Pros once you've received it, the total cost of the y-cable is around $100. Definitely cheaper than buying 2 of those official $100 DPA mono adapters, but you could possibly get it done for less if you bought two of the off-brand adapters.

[beatkilla]

Btw, as far as the y-cable option, I checked with Sound Pros and they will make it for $25 (standard 1/8" plug) or $30 (right angle 1/8" plug). That includes labor. So then you just need to order the cable from cdint and send it to them. A 2-foot cable from cdint with the cheapest shipping option is $64, so accounting for the cost of shipping the cable to Sound Pros once you've received it, the total cost of the y-cable is around $100. Definitely cheaper than buying 2 of those official $100 DPA mono adapters, but you could possibly get it done for less if you bought two of the off-brand adapters.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=188337.msg2280971#msg2280971

[junkyardt]

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=188337.msg2280971#msg2280971

Interesting, had not seen that thread. That’s definitely a little cheaper. Nevertheless, I’d prefer to deal with Sound Pros over Core Sound, plus it sounds like they botched at least one person’s cable on the first try.

[u2_fly_2]

Btw, as far as the y-cable option, I checked with Sound Pros and they will make it for $25 (standard 1/8" plug) or $30 (right angle 1/8" plug). That includes labor. So then you just need to order the cable from cdint and send it to them. A 2-foot cable from cdint with the cheapest shipping option is $64, so accounting for the cost of shipping the cable to Sound Pros once you've received it, the total cost of the y-cable is around $100. Definitely cheaper than buying 2 of those official $100 DPA mono adapters, but you could possibly get it done for less if you bought two of the off-brand adapters.

Thank you very much for the info!

[ilduclo]

still incorrect about Coresound, you can get a volume matched set (or a single mic) terminated how you like without a power supply. For instance, 2 matched 4060's or 4061's terminated together to a single 1/8" stereo miniplug. And, I believe that work is done for the cost of the mics. Len may charge extra for some work, but he didn't when I got my last set



so, yeah, technically they aren't Coresound mics, but they are SOLD by them, which was my point, if you missed it

[Gutbucket]

Exactly as I stated above.

Thanks for the non-contribution to the thread.   Say what you mean, mean what you say.

[ilduclo]

so, Len matches them and terminates them how you wish, it's a good service, worth going to. And, I don't really like the CS battery box option, the boxes are too large and made of too much metal (wand issues) as opposed to the battery boxes sold by Church or Soundpros. I think that's valuable info that wasn't in your response. YMMV

[Gutbucket]

Nor yours.  Keep digging that ego hole.

[ilduclo]

Nor yours.  Keep digging that ego hole.

jeez, you asshole, who fucking shit in your cornflakes this morning?

[Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)]

still incorrect about Coresound, you can get a volume matched set (or a single mic) terminated how you like without a power supply. For instance, 2 matched 4060's or 4061's terminated together to a single 1/8" stereo miniplug. And, I believe that work is done for the cost of the mics. Len may charge extra for some work, but he didn't when I got my last set



so, yeah, technically they aren't Coresound mics, but they are SOLD by them, which was my point, if you missed it

We can provide matched pairs of DPA 4060s or 4061s with the factory micro-dots, or set up to use either of our two HEB battery boxes.

We can also provide an adapter cable that allows for the factory micro-dots to be used with our battery box.

We usually terminate our HEBs with a 1/8"/3.5mm right angle plug. We can use others on request.

We match to tighter tolerances than DPA.

[ilduclo]

thanks, Len

[Gutbucket]

We can also provide an adapter cable that allows for the factory micro-dots to be used with our battery box.

Was not aware of this option. Does makes sense as it would not be difficult.

Thanks for posting Len.

[Gutbucket]

Nor yours.  Keep digging that ego hole.

jeez, you asshole, who fucking shit in your cornflakes this morning?

You just did, again. Seems to be a regular trend, and is quite clear to most level-headed folks on the site (more than a few have confirmed the same to me).

Have a nice day.

[ilduclo]

check your conflakes again! I'm nowhere near where you're at, so it ain't me!

 

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate son

[ilduclo]

Was not aware of this option.

 

--the foremost authority

[Gutbucket]

^ Ah, that ego chipped shoulder again.

Keep on digging man, it's become sadly entertaining on this end, if unfortunate that those following the thread for information purposes need suffer it.

[ilduclo]

Thanks for the non-contribution to the thread.   Say what you mean, mean what you say.

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it

[ilduclo]

[Gutbucket]

Wasn't certain you'd take it literally when I said keep on diggin', but should have guessed as much.

Factually correct information helpful to myself and others is my motivation here.
Please try to confine your animosity to the PZ, il.

[mfrench]

GutBucket, you are a true master recordist and innovator. 
Ilduclo is nothing more than an immature, loudmouth, name calling, imitator; (they call those trolls on the interwebs don't they?).
The OP would be well advised as to which advise to take.

[ilduclo]

well, lets sum up for the original poster, then

 

you can buy 4061's directly from DPA or from Coresound or other places with the microdots attached
you can buy ones terminated to a single 1/8" stereo miniplug from Coresound and get your own power supply from Soundpros, Church or other mfg
you can buy ones with the Coresound box and the proper connections from Coresound as well.
Coresound will also match the mics for output and make other connections and does excellent work doing so.

[Lostbrook]

Considering one of these options myself. Thanks to all for the good info

[u2_fly_2]

well, lets sum up for the original poster, then

 

you can buy 4061's directly from DPA or from Coresound or other places with the microdots attached
you can buy ones terminated to a single 1/8" stereo miniplug from Coresound and get your own power supply from Soundpros, Church or other mfg
you can buy ones with the Coresound box and the proper connections from Coresound as well.
Coresound will also match the mics for output and make other connections and does excellent work doing so.

Many thanks Ilduclo for all extensive info!

[ilduclo]

u2_fly_2, sorry for all the weirdness in this thread. I use a set of 4061's with an old soundpros spsb3 battery box and/or a church audio "ugly" battery box to either a sony m10 or a sony d50. I think my recordings sound great. Here is a link to a recent recording, a Shellac set from October of last year. I think the dpa's do great. I got them from Coresound as a matched pair terminated to a single 1/8" stereo plug which fits right in the battery box

https://mega.nz/#!c0QSyAQB!fO5wbsmqeFBiQDdtBvqGKpfYIm1oinC3SLubxIx4OSk

[u2_fly_2]

u2_fly_2, sorry for all the weirdness in this thread. I use a set of 4061's with an old soundpros spsb3 battery box and/or a church audio "ugly" battery box to either a sony m10 or a sony d50. I think my recordings sound great. Here is a link to a recent recording, a Shellac set from October of last year. I think the dpa's do great. I got them from Coresound as a matched pair terminated to a single 1/8" stereo plug which fits right in the battery box

https://mega.nz/#!c0QSyAQB!fO5wbsmqeFBiQDdtBvqGKpfYIm1oinC3SLubxIx4OSk

Excellent recording, thank you!
Except for the old AT943:a the DPA 4061´s are always one of the best mic´s for sure!

[mfrench]

Personally, I wouldn't buy DPA, and I was one of the all time fluffers.
Why?
4011 pair = one failed mic
4022 pair = many, many, many failed mics. The beginning of trouble....
4028 pair = many, many, many, many, many, many failed pairs, to a point of shutting down the factory, until they found the issue; then receiving an apology for, and, receiving a handbuilt pair, built by O.B. Sorensen himself.
4060 pair = failed mic,.. now replaced with a DIY Senn MKE2 pair

In all of this, the most positive outcome was developing a good relationship/friendship with Bruce Myers, the then CEO of DPA N.A.

[ilduclo]

my first set of dpa 4061's lasted 12 years and only one of the 2 mics failed. I gave that set away to "heathen" here on TS

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175358.msg2274679#msg2274679

next set, purchased from Len at Coresounds is going strong at 3 year old.  I think they're just as rugged as can be. I tape in active metal shows a lot with beer and sweat flying.

agree, the guys at DPA USA are great. Sent me some free clips!

YMMV

[mfrench]

And I likely had $80k in failed 4028's before they shut the factory down. That was after probably $35k+ of failed 4022's. I sold the handbuilt replacements of both models with much trepidation, and with fair warning.

[mfrench]

and, this from a totally unrelated forum; a hifi stereo forum, but not recording related. The guy is a taper though, and, posted this fairly recently...

Excellent job Mike!  One of my DPA 4061s (same tiny lavalier mic as DPA 4060 but with lower output) also unexpectedly dropped in output by about 6 dB.  Archive on brother!  Im starting to get into classical music for sure.

6dB is the mark of death.

[ilduclo]

mine did the big drop, too

[jefflester]

I've recently lost a channel on my 4061 HEBs after 20 years. Not sure if it's capsule, cable, or battery box. They haven't been ultra-abused, but the cables have certainly been yanked around a bit. But 20 years was pretty good, IMO.

[Gutbucket]

My apology to everyone posting and following along as well.  We're all on the same team afterall - tapers helping each other out.

Now that we've pretty much addressed u2_fly_2's specific questions concerning signal chain and connection details, it's a good time to circle back to general advice about these mics in particular, and it looks like that's already happening..

[Gutbucket]

I hear Moke's frustrations.  I will note a couple things there- First, I sort of consider the DPA miniatures (d:screet) to be in a different category from their more expensive primary line of microphones (d:dicate).  I've used their primary line a few times, but have never owned any of them.  I'm far more familiar with the miniature 4060, 4061, and 4098 microphones I use extensively.  Secondly, the new modular system of removable capsules DPA has moved to with their primary line at least potentially addresses some of the cable stress failure issues that were a problem with the older permanently-wired versions of their primary mics such as 4022 & 4028, but I don't know if that's the problem Moke had with his 4028s or not.

As for the miniature 4060/4061 omnis, my primary complaint with them is that the capsule is hard wired to the cable.  I really wish they had the option of a microdot connector right at the back of the capsule.  Then the cables could be easily replaced, longer cables could be used without an extension, and pre-wired rigs could have the capsules removed and swapped.  The 4098 supercards I have are basically like that, with a short flexible goose-neck section between the capsule and microdot.  And the dedicated boundary mount BLM4060 version has a microdot connection on its base-plate.

I've had a few die over the years (the 6dB drop, or outright cable failure) but used them hard and they've survived more unintentional abuse than I would have ever expected originally: tugging, bending, repeated tight coiling and bunching inside narrow wire-runs, being submerged in rain water for a couple hours, stand falls into the dirt, wook snags, beer splashes, FOB madness, etc. Overall I've found them as or more reliable than other miniature lavs and I haven't found any alternate miniature mics which I prefer the sound of. They are more far more resistant to the ravages of moisture and dust than top quality externally polarized condensers, and mostly for that reason I rarely tape much with my more precious Gefell 'reference' pairs anymore.  Secondary reason is that they are so small and light I can do things with them I can't with ext polarized mics.

[Gutbucket]

If you all want, we can get back to the far more subjective conversation about when and where omnis or cardioids are more appropriate and strategies for the use of either of them in various situations.  It's a big topic and subjective opinions on it vary widely. What only works 1% of the time for some tapers may work 99% of the time for others, and vice-versa.

[heathen]

my first set of dpa 4061's lasted 12 years and only one of the 2 mics failed. I gave that set away to "heathen" here on TS

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175358.msg2274679#msg2274679

And thanks again!  I sent the working mic to DPA to have it reterminated to a microdot, for whatever that's worth.

[mfrench]

I hear Moke's frustrations.  I will note a couple things there- First, I sort of consider the DPA miniatures (d:screet) to be in a different category from their more expensive primary line of microphones (d:dicate).  I've used their primary line a few times, but have never owned any of them.  I'm far more familiar with the miniature 4060, 4061, and 4098 microphones I use extensively.  Secondly, the new modular system of removable capsules DPA has moved to with their primary line at least potentially addresses some of the cable stress failure issues that were a problem with the older permanently-wired versions of their primary mics such as 4022 & 4028, but I don't know if that's the problem Moke had with his 4028s or not.

As for the miniature 4060/4061 omnis, my primary complaint with them is that the capsule is hard wired to the cable.  I really wish they had the option of a microdot connector right at the back of the capsule.  Then the cables could be easily replaced, longer cables could be used without an extension, and pre-wired rigs could have the capsules removed and swapped.  The 4098 supercards I have are basically like that, with a short flexible goose-neck section between the capsule and microdot.  And the dedicated boundary mount BLM4060 version has a microdot connection on its base-plate.

I've had a few die over the years (the 6dB drop, or outright cable failure) but used them hard and they've survived more unintentional abuse than I would have ever expected originally: tugging, bending, repeated tight coiling and bunching inside narrow wire-runs, being submerged in rain water for a couple hours, stand falls into the dirt, wook snags, beer splashes, FOB madness, etc. Overall I've found them as or more reliable than other miniature lavs and I haven't found any alternate miniature mics which I prefer the sound of. They are more far more resistant to the ravages of moisture and dust than top quality externally polarized condensers, and mostly for that reason I rarely tape much with my more precious Gefell 'reference' pairs anymore.  Secondary reason is that they are so small and light I can do things with them I can't with ext polarized mics.

determination:
An outsourced chrome plating of the capsules backplate came in at a mil.layer too thick. The capsule would hit the backplate, short out the onboard FET, and, result in the death mark 6dB drop. That drop was also accompanied by sharp rhythmic spiking in the affected channel.

[Gutbucket]

That had to be super frustrating.  Would sour me on them too.  Hope they make good for you for acting as a defacto quality control agent.

[mfrench]

It all worked out. In the end, I was not out anything, monetarily, within reason. But, it was most of a missed years season of music with the 4022's, and then again with the 4028's.  It got so bad that all it took was literally the first time in turning them on,.. zap, dead,.. back to Colorado/Denmark.
DPA/BK was a great company to deal with. They took this very seriously.  In exchange for my trouble's, they literally opened their entire inventory to me in a loaner program, as much of, or, whatever I needed to keep the music capture going. And, Bruce Myers was there, immediately, for me to talk to. We'd spend hours on the phone at a time, just blabbering; first about microphines and music, and eventually about family and life.  He even opened a page for me on their site as one of their favored users. But, alas,... I couldn't afford the risk of failure out of warranty, so I moved on.

Now,... let me tell you all about Line Audio......

[heathen]

Now,... let me tell you all about Line Audio......

Have you had issues with those?

[mfrench]

None in the slightest. Totally satisfied. Happy as I can be with them. Great mics.
And, total bonus,... something like $3700 less?

[RyanJ]

Moke, I have no idea how you stayed with DPA for so long. After the 2-3 failure I would have said enough is enough!

I have run DPAs in the past. First pair of mics that were actually some higher end mics I got. FOB is good for small/medium size venues. But once you get to arenas/amphitheaters, if you aren't near the stacks. I feel everything gets washed out with the omni pattern. Once I got myself some AT853s and MK4s, I realized how much I was missing running a cardioid pattern for the longest time and didn't have to be as near to a source to pull decent tapes.

Really depends on what sort of shows you run at. I loved to stack tape. But I like having the sense of security that even if I am not in the optimum spot for stealthing, I will have a decent chance at a good pull.

[jerryfreak]

did some comps last weekend with 4061 and 4099. i have some other clips i havent uploaded yet that are farther from the source, they will prob be posted in same thread eventually

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181868.msg2295147#msg2295147
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181868.msg2295287#msg2295287
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181868.msg2295406#msg2295406

[u2_fly_2]

did some comps last weekend with 4061 and 4099. i have some other clips i havent uploaded yet that are farther from the source, they will prob be posted in same thread eventually

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181868.msg2295147#msg2295147
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181868.msg2295287#msg2295287
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181868.msg2295406#msg2295406

Excellent, thank you very much!

[aaronji]

I think the 406x series are really great small omnis, very clean and detailed.  The typical strengths and limitations of that polar pattern apply, of course, but they are awesome when you're in the "omni zone".

DPA's line of modular mics are also excellent.  Fantastic sonically and outstanding build quality.  Various capsules, several pre-amps, and a broad range of cool accessories are available.  Every review I have read has been enthusiastic and I don't recall seeing any descriptions of issues.  Definitely worth a look if you are a fan of the DPA house sound...

[bonghitwillie]

i have a lot of dpa4061s that i bought used off of ebay. i have noticed that after a while some had a drop in volume (6db problem?). i never knew what it was. thought it might be my power supply or recorder. i would just swap them out after a while with another one. i usually have 4 sets ready to go at any given time. any idea what causes the 6bd loss? sometimes it goes back to normal. dosen't  dpa make a 4062 that handles more spl than a 4061?

[jerryfreak]

From what I’ve read on here the 6dB drop is due to the mics being ‘sweated out’ which means they were abused in a bunch of theater situations. And are at or near the end of their life apparently. The fact that you say it is intermittent is interesting. Perhaps you can try to clean them using DPAs method on their website.

[ilduclo]

The sudden vol drop is usually a death knell.

[Andy x123]

Hi, can anyone help.
I have a set of Saramonic UwMic 9 wireless receiver RX9/ with 2 transmitter TX9.
I’m currently upgrade my lavaliers to new Dpa 4061 but the one I have bought has a 3 pin lemo on.

The Saramonic uses a 3.5mm TRS screw jack, I have bought all parts ready for soldering just need a wiring diagram and a few bits advice see below.

I’ve been trying to contact Saramonic to to find out info but I’m having language problems as there main technical support seems like it’s in Hong Kong and they don’t understand my questions.

1) What Bias Voltage does the saramonic transmitter TX9 pack give to condenser lavaliers such as the 4061.
(The 4061 is designed to function at full specification with a Bias Voltage of 5v DC to the mic but can work as low as 3.3v DC)

2) Can you better explain how to wire a 3.5mm TRS Jack for an UNBALANCED microphone (dpa 4061).
To be used with the UwMic 9 transmitter (TX9) system.

What wire goes to the tip ?
What wire goes to the ring ?
What wire goes to the sleeve ?

I’ve separated the wire on the dpa and I have the outer braid shield with one single inner core.

Dpa seem to think that the saramonic might follow the sennheiser lav mic wiring but I just want to make sure before I go ahead.

Just struggling to find all the information to piece together.

Many thanks in advance.

[Gutbucket]

I'm unaware of Saramonic nor how the TRS should be wired for use with it, but will venture an educated guess.  As for the 4061, the center conductor is signal/bias+ (5 to 9VDC bias voltage is optimal), and the braided shield is shield/ground.

Best guess on the wiring assignment (presuming TX9 provides appropriate bias voltage)-
Probable assignments:
Center conductor signal wire to tip.
Shield/ground to sleeve.

The question is how to wire the ring connection. If the same transmitter accepts 3-wire mics, the ring connection is most likely bias voltage, separate from signal +, in which case you'll most likely need to connect ring and tip together.

That differs from the typical stereo pair 2-wire wiring setup common to tapers on this forum, where tip and ring are shared signal/bias from each mic and both shield/grounds are attached to sleeve.  Which is wired to a single (stereo) TRS as follows: left signal to tip, right signal to ring, both shield/grounds to sleeve.

[Scooter123]

I had a pair of these, and love them (great sound), but ...

I also experienced a db drop, didn't fix it, and sold it. 

I have a couple pairs of Schoeps and never looked back.  I have done 8 straight hours in 90° temps with 90% humidity (Jazz Fests, Stagecoach, and Dessert Trips) with the Schoeps and trashed the actives with salt deposits, but the mikes are still perfect.  I tend to do large sweaty outdoor venues in battlefield conditions. 

[perks]

I have a couple pairs of Schoeps and never looked back.  I have done 8 straight hours in 90° temps with 90% humidity (Jazz Fests, Stagecoach, and Dessert Trips) with the Schoeps and trashed the actives with salt deposits, but the mikes are still perfect. I tend to do large sweaty outdoor venues in battlefield conditions.

Hi Scooter - I hope you don't mind me asking about what happens to your actives when they have taken on to much sweat. I'm asking because I've run into an issue where my actives cables (made with the Mogami cabling not Schoeps Kevlar covered cables) starts to get stiff after a couple of years of heavy use and the cable stiffness below the coupling makes the capsule rub against the fabric hiding the mics causing unwanted noise on my recording. Ironically my cables are getting sweat on during the coldest Arctic Blast type of conditions because I throw on multiple layers allowing me to walk to most of my local venues. Sending the cables back to Nick is easy enough for a quick replacement so its never been a major issue but I've always wondered if the Schoeps branded cables would do a better job at repelling the sweat. Is this the same issue you have dealt with? All of the local tapers (to me)with Nboxes dont seem to get to that heavy usage state so no one else I know has needed to deal with this issue.

[Gutbucket]

^ FWIW, I find the same happens with the cable jackets on the DPA miniatures eventually getting stiff after years of stealth use (at at some later point cracking and eventually falling off in places), while the mics themselves continue working fine.  This is one reason I wish DPA would offer the option of a microdot connection at the microphone rather than only with a built-in cable.

Otherwise the DPA miniature omnis have been proven to withstand even complete immersion in rainwater for hours (accidentally) in addition to 100% humidity and 100°F heat and the copious sweat that incurs on some occasions at 4 day / 12+ hr day festivals  in FL and NC.  Good to hear Schoeps caps are able to handle that as well.  I've always been concerned about externally polarized caps being damaged or "going spitty" in those conditions, and not wishing to subject what I consider my "reference" SDC Gefells to that was one major impetus in my shift to using miniature DPA 4098 supercards where I'd previously used the Geffs.

[Scooter123]

Coachella and Desert Trip were just fucking brutal.  98° and in the sun most of the day.  I can't leave my seat because I would have to go through security again, and I'm not going to risk that.  Jazz Fest was no picnic either, same temperatures but add 90% humidity.  During Bruce and Eric Clapton, women around me were passing out and parameds were called into stretcher them out.  I think we lost about a half dozen for each show.  I can't drink water, because I would have to pee and pee my pants or lose my spot in the pit.  So I suck on an Orange and sip water. 

I send my sweat soaked actives to Nick and he repairs them.  I think he simply takes them apart and cleans them and runs new wire, although the wire is probably good. Nick cleans them and I forget what he charges me--its reasonable.   I have 3 sets of actives so its no big deal.  I think he has done this drill a couple times. 

Nick reminded of a scene in Goldfinger where M admonishes 007 that he was treating the equipment with contempt.  007 tells M "You'd be surprised how much wear and tear goes on out in the field."

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byVccwJ0L1c

[Gutbucket]

^ Whew! That's no joke.  +T (& more in 24 as we used to say)

Q- "I never joke about my work, 007" (dig the irony of the high-tech beeping 100mi range homing locator installed in the dash of the Aston Martin immediately underneath it's archaic manual fuel-enrichment/choke-lever)

I've worn my setup all day for days in similar brutal conditions, sometimes compounded with biking in and lots of walking and moving between stages, but at least had regular respite from the sun/heat/rain in between acts with access to water and restrooms.   It takes a toll on gear for sure.  Have needed to clean/fix/rebuild the setup afterwards many times, in addition to a yearly overhaul/reconstruction.