Gear / Technical Help > Microphones & Setup
In a SBD/AUD matrix, what should the mics capture?
Gutbucket:
What you get on-stage is a wider range of intimacy and impact, big dynamics of subtle details combined with huge dynamics, the musicians talking to each other between acts, grunting and moaning, the audience reaction of the most engaged folks up front getting their minds blown, rather than the less engaged ones in back talking about yesterday's lunch. A big wide enveloping sound that you are in the middle of instead of listening in on from some safe distance away.
Be prepared for wild levels, along with having to think about how to get a balanced contribution from everything. You become your own sound guy in terms of working the balance of the recording.
Breaking it down more in terms of individual components of the total recorded sound:
1) There is the direct sound arrival from the instruments and vocals - this is what the soundboard primarily represents and can provide in spades when good. It is what is lacking in a distant AUD or an AUD made in a bad room. It's why we want the SBD recorded along with the sound from our mics. It is the sound of clear vocals. But it is also on-stage direct sound of things not in the SBD such as the band talking to each other and to the audience in front off mic, with some overlap with number four below..
2) There is the room sound - which might be great so that you'll want a good bit of its lush liveness in the recording, or might be so terrible you are fighting to minimize it as much as possible. it is mostly reverberant, either in a lush way or a muddy mess. It is part of what makes a live recording live, the sense of place totally lacking in the SBD.
3) There is the audience reaction - like the room sound this is not from the stage or PA. But it is not the room sound and should be thought of differently even if not addressed differently in terms of recording or minimizing it. It is another part of what makes a live recording live and exciting, the sense of collective excitement that is usually weak if existent in the SBD.
4) There is the non-direct on-stage sound. Great potential imaging to be had here. The sound of the musicians interacting and doing their thing in their actual space. Multidimensional aspects of the sound of percussion and drums as heard bouncing around in the immediate on-stage space area laid out in front front of you, as opposed to the more flattened, abstracted sound of mixed drums and percussion. This is a big part of what on-stage or stage-lip mics can provide over that of a good SBD alone.
Most of the time we don't have very much control over balancing the above aspects, but that is actually partly what we are doing by choosing the best AUD position (finding a good practical balance via position). Recording on stage or at stage-lip provides a way of gaining more control over the entirety of that stuff, at the risk of having to put more of those individual components together and maybe lacking to get something important.
If in doubt, record your standard AUD arrangement and the SBD before going on stage or stage-lip, or do both if up for it.
DavidPuddy:
Great series of posts by gutbucket. In my experience, the soundboard feed you can expect (when available) is simply a sweetener to your audience recording. I generally mix it in to give a little clarify to the vocals and bass up until you can *just* hear it in the mix.
jefflester:
What are you planning to do deck-wise? It will be very difficult to balance levels between the SBD and the mics live if you are going straight to a 2-track recorder like an A10. You would need very high isolation headphones to be able to hear what you are recording and not the live sound in the room. So either a 4-track (or more) deck (ideal) or two separate 2-track recorders that you are planning to mix together in post-production? The latter will have additional challenges of aligning the two different recordings across the length of the whole concert.
vantheman:
You guys are all awesome. I understand what im trying to do now. As a point of reference I have a recent sbd thats all voice and a terrible listening experience overall. If only I’d mic’d those amps and drums too!
As far as a deck, I suppose I’d go with a DR100 mkiii with the mics and either a thumb drive or (attenuated) A10 from the soundboard. I haven’t been to either venue, and this all depends on what’s feasible based on what I observe in each room on the day. If I can set up a spaced pair in the sweet spot I’d just as soon do that. But with the permission of the artist, access to sound check, etc, why not try to go all out.
I don’t mind additional alignment challenges as long as it’s reasonably doable to align tracks from two different decks.
vantheman:
--- Quote from: jefflester on September 13, 2021, 09:10:52 PM ---So either a 4-track (or more) deck (ideal) or two separate 2-track recorders that you are planning to mix together in post-production?
--- End quote ---
I'm not against making the investment in a 4+ track deck (your DR680MKII looks like a good candidate, I'd love to keep it under the $250 mark) but I'd be making a calculation that with an artist and sound person I've never met, in a venue I haven't been to, that I'll be able to easily run mics and a sbd feed into the same device - either stage mics back to FOH or vice versa with the sbd feed. Is this so worth the effort and cost for an occasional project that I should do this over manually aligning in post? If so I'll do it.
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