Topic: The AKG Active Project - 2

[F.O.Bean]

I dont care so much for an active cable for the 480 bodies ala the mk46 actives for the 460's, but I would want another JK-Labs style setup that just supplies 48v phantom to the ck6x caps. I would like to run ck61/3>active cables>JKLabs style box that supplies 48v to the ck6x caps. That would be 100% AOK with me. As long as I can get the ck6x capsules on the stand with a KwonBar-style mic bar WITHOUT the bodies up there, I will be one happy tapir

ck61/3>actives>48v phantom box to take the place of the 480 bodies(as long as the sonics are VERY similar, if not identical)>722 is EXACTLY what Im looking for. I mean, I def WOULD NOT bitch if a true active cable could be constructed to run ck61/3>actives>480's>722, but I just want the option of running JUST the ck6x capsules on the mic stand, and dont care how I would have to do it wether a jklabs style 48v phantom(ECMS) or jklabs DVC style preamp is used, or an active cable to screw directly into the 480 bodies, and all would be OK in the messed up world we live in. Then if you could make a fig-8 capsule for the 460's/480's for your next project, that would be cool too Just kidding of course!

I am def psyched that this may actually come into fruition before I cant stand up anymore or have the power to carry a mic stand+gear bag any longer(which wont be until Im prolly 80 years old )If this could happen before the end of 2008, then that nwould be one hell of a beautiful thing for sure I just got sick of waiting for an active system for the 480's since Jon went MIA, and couldnt pass up the MBHO deal I got. I would still hold onto the MBHO's if this happened within the next few years because I love their sound, but I would LOVE having 2 diff sounding active setups

To tell yinz the truth, I have been LOVING the sound of the Schoeps>V2/3>7xx recordings I have heard lately because they have the lowend I am mostly looking for, especially recording in the dives I often do around Pittsburgh. I have def been contemplating selling everything but the 722 and going Schoeps mk41/mk4>v2>722. Yes I said it, I have been considering Schoeps. What is this world coming to If all of their capsules/accessories werent so damned expensive, Id prolly already ahve done that. The Schoeps>V2>7xx tapes are damn near perfect when that lowend is bloated. The v2 brings out the FINE detail that the Schoeps have and the v2 also keeps in lowend in check and not-so-bloated 9 out of 10 times, while the 722 perfectly accents the lowend/detail of the v2/Schoeps. They def compliment each other VERY WELL. I would/could be happy running Schoeps>722, but the lowend of that combo can def be a bit much at times. I would not get thats etup unless I had the v2 first and foremost tho

Lets see, 1k for the 480's and 1300 for the MBHO's, pluss all of m,y accessories(Vert Bar/Shocks/cables/etc) could get me an extra 400-500 dollars, so thats around 3k I guess with my 480's/MBHO/accessories. That would only get me Schoeps mk41's+actives+MAYBE a DINa bar and THATS it tho. A good taper HAS TO have a pair of cards, even if he doesnt use them but once a year. Id have to come up with anotehr 1k for the mk4's and another 800 for a v2. Just too damne xpensive for my blood when its said and done, and not worth it in the long run when I would put my 483>722 and MBHO>722 recordings up against ANY SChoeps recordings IMO

Well, once again, theyre just not worth the extra $$ I would have to put into it. I think MBHO's sounds dman near Schoeps without the somehwat big/bloated bottom end MBHO got it right the first time I guess and 483>722 is DEF the most consistent and best sounding combo I have EVER had the pleasure of running. I would put a few of my 483>722 recordings EASILY up against some sachoeps>any combo recorings. I wish I coudl get Kyle at another show with me so we could comp his Schoeps>PSP2/V2>AD2k against my 483>722 or MBHO>722 recordings All I need is a PSP2 and I think my rig would be damn near unbeatable Just ask Mikey Jonesy( aka terrapinj). he runs JW Mod 461/3>PSP2>722 and his recordings are easily soem of the ebst I have ever heard, at least in a LONG TIME anyway They really have that nice transformer sound that no other preamp has for the size/price I def want to get a transformer preamp to use with the MBHO's in the shittier dives I record in in PBurgh because the MBHO Hypers>722 can be just a TAD too thin at times, but thats what Wavelab's MultiBand Compressor is for

Dopne rambling and sorry for highjacking this beautiful thread!

Thanks again for everyones hard work in trying to get this AKG Actives project off the ground. I wish you all the best and hope it works out, not only for us tapers to use the AKG Actives, but also for the one/ones that can possibly FINALLY get it right to reap the benefits and make some decent money as well

I hope Chris Church's transformer preamp comes into play sooner than later, because as much a s I fluff the 722's preamps on their own, I would like a nice, phat sounding transformer external preamp after recording in a SHITTY sounding warehouse this past saturday and the mix just soundig 'off' becasue I needed a transformer preamp in teh chain to phatten up the sound overall.

**********end rambling***********

[Sigmund Freud]

Spell check and punctuation are your friend, as would be a quick edit to keep your post more on topic. Now where is that "block emoticon" button?

[Brian]

   

   

 

         

QFT!

i feel the same way about schoeps>v2>722 recordings as well.

[willndmb]

I dont care so much for an active cable for the 480 bodies ala the mk46 actives for the 460's, but I would want another JK-Labs style setup that just supplies 48v phantom to the ck6x caps. I would like to run ck61/3>active cables>JKLabs style box that supplies 48v to the ck6x caps. That would be 100% AOK with me. As long as I can get the ck6x capsules on the stand with a KwonBar-style mic bar WITHOUT the bodies up there, I will be one happy tapir

ck61/3>actives>48v phantom box to take the place of the 480 bodies(as long as the sonics are VERY similar, if not identical)>722 is EXACTLY what Im looking for. I mean, I def WOULD NOT bitch if a true active cable could be constructed to run ck61/3>actives>480's>722, but I just want the option of running JUST the ck6x capsules on the mic stand, and dont care how I would have to do it wether a jklabs style 48v phantom(ECMS) or jklabs DVC style preamp is used, or an active cable to screw directly into the 480 bodies, and all would be OK in the messed up world we live in. Then if you could make a fig-8 capsule for the 460's/480's for your next project, that would be cool too Just kidding of course!

my personal pref order would be
caps > cable > bodies
for the "true" akg sound and not much (interconnects) as extra gear
caps > cable > preamp
(if it sounded close to the akg sound) as a replacement to my ua-5
caps > cable > 48v
could live with it but wouldn't care for it as much because now i have extra gear to carry around in my already packed bag

i know depending on what gear you own it could be different as to size wise and stuff

[OFOTD]

I'm confused Bean.  Why would you want a DVC box instead of a cable that connects directly to the body?   In this case you have an outboard pre (V2 or 722 pre) so that in and of itself provides you 48v power.  Secondly stashing a pair of bodies in your bag takes up as much if not less room than a DVC box would.   

I think its pretty clear with the JKLabs boxes out there that while good sounding it is not a true representation of the 480 sound. 

If all you want is actives without regard to getting that true AKG sound then go with the MBHO's, Neumann's or Schoeps.   If a cable can be fashioned to KEEP the body the mix then that to me would keep us closer to THAT sound that we all know and love.

my personal pref order would be
caps > cable > bodies
for the "true" akg sound and not much (interconnects) as extra gear
caps > cable > preamp
(if it sounded close to the akg sound) as a replacement to my ua-5
caps > cable > 48v
could live with it but wouldn't care for it as much because now i have extra gear to carry around in my already packed bag

This would be my preference as well.

[Kevin]

Great job looking forward to more progress. +T

[F.O.Bean]

Spell check and punctuation are your friend, as would be a quick edit to keep your post more on topic. Now where is that "block emoticon" button?

wow, thanks for the informative post

[Todd R]

I'm confused Bean.  Why would you want a DVC box instead of a cable that connects directly to the body?   In this case you have an outboard pre (V2 or 722 pre) so that in and of itself provides you 48v power.  Secondly stashing a pair of bodies in your bag takes up as much if not less room than a DVC box would.   

I think its pretty clear with the JKLabs boxes out there that while good sounding it is not a true representation of the 480 sound. 

If all you want is actives without regard to getting that true AKG sound then go with the MBHO's, Neumann's or Schoeps.   If a cable can be fashioned to KEEP the body the mix then that to me would keep us closer to THAT sound that we all know and love.

Not trying to be a naysayer, but I don't really agree with the premise that active cables attaching the capsules to the bodies will give a true representation of the 480 sound.  It might be a truer representation than a jklabs style ECMS box, but I would expect it too will sound different from 480 bodies, though perhaps not too different.

The active cables will use active electronics in the path, and these can change the sound of the system.  As far as I'm concerned, any change whatsoever can and probably will change the sound of the system.  Neumann bills the 140s as being the same as the 184s, but I've done side by side tests of the 184s vs the 140s and I could hear a difference between them.

I don't say this to rain on the parade here.  I'd love to see some AKG actives get made.  And I do think my AKG ck6x caps> JKLabs active cables> JKLabs ECMS box sounded much more like AKG 480s than they did like Neumanns, Schoeps, etc.  I'm just not convinced that any system no matter what the configuration (cables to bodies or cables to separate box) will sound exactly like the ck6x>480 bodies do.

[OFOTD]

Not trying to be a naysayer, but I don't really agree with the premise that active cables attaching the capsules to the bodies will give a true representation of the 480 sound.  It might be a truer representation than a jklabs style ECMS box, but I would expect it too will sound different from 480 bodies, though perhaps not too different.

Totally agree with you.  I was trying to get my point across in as few words as possible and should have elaborated more.   Maybe the phrase "truer representation" instead of "true representation"

The obvious best path is caps on body.  With a cable in between there are sure to be differences.  Are those differences greater than cap to jklabs style box?  I would think not.  So I guess to get the truest AKG 480 sound the path would go like this (in this order):

1. cap > body
2. cap > cable > body
3. cap > cable > 48v box <or> cap > cable > outboard pre

[Todd R]

Right on.  Sorry, wasn't trying to call you out in particular.  It just seemed to me there was this notion being kicked around the thread that option 2 of cap>cable>body was somehow more pristine and guaranteed to sound just like the current 480 setup, with the corallary that any system that wasn't the above was out since it lost the AKG "sound".

Also, probably worth noting for everyone reading that Option 2 of Caps>cable>480 body is actually caps> {active cable with additional electronics on the capsule side and potentially additional electronics on the 480 body side} > 480 body.  What we're talking about in terms of potential of coloring the sound is not just a cable like a different mic cable might color the sound, but rather the mic signal will be passing thru a variety of electronics that it currently does not when it is just caps>480 mic body.

At any rate, Neil's efforts are excellent!  Already starting to dream of active AKG ck62 for 2ch omni and Milab VM44 actives for 2ch of cards.  Only downside of this effort is I might need to scrap the 722 and get a 744.

[stevetoney]

Only downside of this effort is I might need to scrap the 722 and get a 744.

Eat hotdogs for several years and it becomes an upside! 

[F.O.Bean]

Right on.  Sorry, wasn't trying to call you out in particular.  It just seemed to me there was this notion being kicked around the thread that option 2 of cap>cable>body was somehow more pristine and guaranteed to sound just like the current 480 setup, with the corallary that any system that wasn't the above was out since it lost the AKG "sound".

Also, probably worth noting for everyone reading that Option 2 of Caps>cable>480 body is actually caps> {active cable with additional electronics on the capsule side and potentially additional electronics on the 480 body side} > 480 body.  What we're talking about in terms of potential of coloring the sound is not just a cable like a different mic cable might color the sound, but rather the mic signal will be passing thru a variety of electronics that it currently does not when it is just caps>480 mic body.

At any rate, Neil's efforts are excellent!  Already starting to dream of active AKG ck62 for 2ch omni and Milab VM44 actives for 2ch of cards.  Only downside of this effort is I might need to scrap the 722 and get a 744.

744 only has 2 preamps tho I know you have the v3 but just saying

I would run:
AKG>744(7xx preamps)
AND
Milab>V3>744

THAT my friend would be, as we say, BUTTA

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

I saw those.  They look very nice.  Cool accessories as well.  Swivels!   

http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf/root/500966#

a cable like the mk46 for my 460 bodies and ck1 caps is exactly what i would want. good job on the effort so far!!

the only problem is finding ck1 or ck3 caps.

I have a single ck3x for sale. PM me.


In other news, Sennheiser has a new active mic system. Google MKH8000 for info.
MSRP will be $1299/ea, plus active cable cost. 10m lengths, omni, hyper, and card caps.
They sounded absolulty awesome for the 20 seconds that I heard of them.

[spreadheadtom]

I think its pretty clear with the JKLabs boxes out there that while good sounding it is not a true representation of the 480 sound. 

true...I think the JKLabs box makes things a little more detailed.

[F.O.Bean]

I think its pretty clear with the JKLabs boxes out there that while good sounding it is not a true representation of the 480 sound. 

true...I think the JKLabs box makes things a little more detailed.

so more along the lines of a grace preamp Im sure the grace preamps are prolly a bit more detailed/transient, but I never knew that, as I havent heard many ck6x>jk labs recordings so thats prolly why I didnt know that

I bet that is a sweet combo you have there Tommy. The fast/transient/detailed response of the ck6x>jk labs paired with the warmer, more analog-ish sound of the ACM 671/722 has got to sound sweet as all hell

Tommy, do you have any recordings you'd consider GREAT/KILLER of your jk labs>acm 671 combo on the LMA that would be geared towards my musical tastes ala moe/Lotus/STS9/Biscuits/etc Thanks in advance bud!

Bean

And folks, dont get me wrong, obviously, the best route for actives for the ck6x series would be: caps>actives>480 bodies, but just having the capsules ONLY on the stand is a big enough benefit/advantage for me to be happy as all hell What would be IDEAL for me anyway would be the option to have caps>actives>480 bodies or the option to go caps>jk labs with diff flavors ala the warm mod/t mod/p mod/etc. I think ck6x caps>a warmer flavored jk labs would be IDEAL for the ck6x capsules IMO, but thats asking for the egg before the chicken at this point in time. especially when we could obviously tailor that warm mod sound to the many external preamps/combos out there, but just a thought at this point in time The possibilities are def endless if the actives for the 480 bodies ever do come about maybe at the barrell/collette end of the actives could be a mini-xlr connector so we could customize the cabling itself to use belden 1804a or the like as long as its a smaller diameter like the belden 1804a silver-clad active cables ala the MBHO actives line That way as long as the barrells/collettes are machined properly, it would def make it somewhat easier on Neil or whoever ends up manufacturing these. That way if there was ever a cable problem, Neil or whomever wouldnt have to have such a workload to replace/repair the cables themselves, as many more folks could easily switch out the cabling itself for repairs or upgrades. I mean look at the situation on the mk46 cables for the 460 bodies. Theyre literally just falling apart after so many years of use/abuse. And what if Neil isnt around to do the repairs or upgrades of the cabling In the future, if mini-xlr's were used somehow into the design of the active cables(like on each end of the barrell/collette after the screw part on the barrell)

anyway, just rambling at this point I guess.......