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Author Topic: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders  (Read 2101 times)

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Offline TheJez

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Tascam announced two new small & cheap recorders with built-in mics and mini-jack mic/line input. These two recorders seem 100% identical, apart from the internal mic configuration.

https://www.tascam.eu/en/dr-05xp Omni's
https://www.tascam.eu/en/dr-07xp Cardioids A/B or X/Y

Of course it's 32bfp-capable, but no mention of multi-ADC. Also no EIN-claim to be found on the website or manual.
When looking at the manual (chapter 5.5), there seems to be gain control in the analog domain when using 16/24 bit recording, but when using 32bfp the gain seems fixed and 'record level adjustments' are done in the digital domain.

Offline VibrationOfLife

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Re: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2025, 03:23:44 AM »
They could easily un-cripple that.  While it's not my modality of choice, I wonder what their audience is?  Reporters?

Offline TheJez

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Re: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2025, 05:52:59 AM »
Hmm, it seems they are very similar to the DR-05X and DR-07X, with added '32bfp', but without multi-ADC  :banging head:. So this seems like marketing-driven release.

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2025, 08:44:56 AM »
It seems to be much like any such device these days.  The actual quality of the mic capsules might be the key thing.  Max SPL is 125dB which is either a consequence of capsule limitation, or lack of dual A/D converters limiting the dynamic range.  This whole single converter thing seems to be becoming a new trend.  And not one that is much discussed elsewhere so far.

Offline heva

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Re: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2025, 04:17:19 PM »
125dB max spl is the same as previous model

It would be very cool if they make 32bfp in firmware for the dr100mkiii, which HAS dual adcs …

Offline Sebastian

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Re: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2025, 05:46:12 PM »
Hmm, it seems they are very similar to the DR-05X and DR-07X, with added '32bfp', but without multi-ADC  :banging head:. So this seems like marketing-driven release.

...just like every other device that has 32bfp, multi ADC or not.  :smash:

Offline dustonj2008

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Re: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2025, 04:02:01 PM »
Saw these drop and was wondering what everyone thought of them. I'm in the market for gear to tape metal shows so I thought the 32bfr feature sounded like a good feature. I'm a noob so be gentle haha.

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2025, 03:29:41 AM »
125dB max spl is the same as previous model

It would be very cool if they make 32bfp in firmware for the dr100mkiii, which HAS dual adcs …

That's an interesting thought but as it's a discontinued model, I suspect it wouldn't happen.

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2025, 03:53:27 AM »
Saw these drop and was wondering what everyone thought of them. I'm in the market for gear to tape metal shows so I thought the 32bfr feature sounded like a good feature. I'm a noob so be gentle haha.

Well, you can probably  tell from the preceding posts that nobody so far is particularly excited about this device.  It seems to be trying to cover a wide range of uses but it's not necessarily the best at any given one.  The 32 bit float capability is unlikely to have an audible benefit from its apparently single converter, compared to 24 bit. 

I guess that we'd need to know a fair bit more about your requirement to provide targeted advice - for instance, are you just wanting to record using built in mics, noticeable to those around you, or more discreetly with semi hidden mics?  Or would your mic choice be dictated by sound quality rather then discreet appearance?  And if you have a mic in mind what kind of connector does it have?  And so on... 

Right now if I was going to record a metal show using stuff I already have, I would choose the Zoom M2 MicTrak device if making the recording obvious was not a problem, or the Rode Wireless Micro pair clipped to a baseball cap and connected to my phone, for less obvious recording.  Assuming wearing a baseball cap at the venue wouldn't look odd. 

Both of these devices can handle 135dB incoming levels to their built in mics.  The Zoom does 32 bit float but the Rode doesn't.  The Zoom device doesn't have level setting, and as it has no input sockets, the only basis for the quoted 135dB handling would be that the mic capsules, the preamp, and the dual A/D converters could handle it. 

The Rode has a choice of three sensitivities.  The low sensitivity setting would presumably not overload the output to the phone when it encountered the 135dB metal band, otherwise quoting that figure wouldn't make sense.  You would use an app in the phone to record and that would doubtless enable levels to be set.  You have to keep your head still while recording otherwise the stereo image would keep shifting around.

At risk of displaying prejudice, I doubt whether the self noise of the device would be critical when recording this kind of music, as long as the self noise wasn't really, really bad.

Note that my suggestions are left field.  Others might say to me "you must be joking".


Offline Ozpeter

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Re: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2025, 08:53:02 PM »
Curtis Judd has just reviewed this device on YouTube.  He didn't mention the apparent lack of a dual a/d converter.  I suspect that this is because people have not twigged that 32 bit float recording does not necessarily mean dual converters offering a wider stored dynamic range.  I have posted a long comment pointing out that something iffy is going on here and I suggested that he should challenge people like Tascam and Zoom to come clean on what they are doing.  (He would be much more likely to get an answer than me!). Let's see what may or may not emerge.

(Most of the comments complained about a lot of self noise from the device, which he used to record the review audio.  Sadly, I simply didn't hear it - I think my ears have reached retirement age... But nobody mentioned the rather thin sound. These days self noise seems to be a bigger consumer concern than accurate capture of a reasonable frequency range.  Hmm.)

Offline TheJez

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Re: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2025, 08:33:50 AM »
125dB max spl is the same as previous model

It would be very cool if they make 32bfp in firmware for the dr100mkiii, which HAS dual adcs …

That's an interesting thought but as it's a discontinued model, I suspect it wouldn't happen.

There's no need to update the firmware. One could use the SafetyTrackMerger software to combine the output of the two ADC's into a single 32bfp file. At post processing, not during recording that is...

Offline heva

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Re: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2025, 02:56:09 PM »
There’s definitely a need to update the firmware: to get the 32bit fp stuff in the recorder straight away
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:39:52 AM by heva »

Offline TheJez

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Re: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2025, 01:47:20 AM »
There’s definitely a need to update the firmware: to get the 31bit fp stuff in the recorder straight away
I really doubt the dr100mkiii would have the processing power and memory capacity to do the combining in realtime. And indeed it is very unlikely they will make new firmware for a discontinued product. There is simply no financial incentive for them to do so. If I'd have this device, I would be quite happy with a software solution that would effectively turn this ~2016 device into a 32bfp recorder, even if it's done during post processing. I understand the desire for new firmware, but wouldn't directly call it a need as there is another way available to achieve the same result. Just my opinion...

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2025, 06:59:30 PM »
Tascam are answering some (not all so far) questions about this device on their YouTube adverts for it.  I've asked them there about whether or not it has dual converters, or a single converter not extending the dynamic range.  Will they answer?  Time will tell...

Offline TheJez

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Re: TASCAM Announces the DR-05XP and DR-07XP Portable Handheld Recorders
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2025, 02:32:32 AM »
The more I think of this... I guess with this device it may be better to record in 16/24bit than 32bfp. When recording in 16 or 24bit, at least the user does have analog gain control, allowing to set it in such a way that there is 'acceptable' S/N ratio for the given circumstances (loud/quiet). When recording in 32bfp, the analog gain is fixed at such a low level that 125dB SPL will not overload the analog input and the single ADC. This automatically means there will be quite some noise when recording quieter sounds (e.g. dialog, ambience). With 32bfp, any amplification due to the 'record level' is done in the digital domain, hence not improving the S/N ratio in any way. In the Curtis Judd review he mentioned a recording where he shouted in the mics, resulting in samples > 0dB which he had to normalize to get rid of distortion. This totally makes sense as the distortion was caused in the digital 32bfp domain in the first place. So it says absolutely nothing about the device's dynamic range capabilities.
It's a weird paradox that the device's selling point (32bfp) is the device's Achilles heel at the same time. It will likely be ok-ish for (very) loud recordings, but under par for other recordings.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2025, 05:05:18 AM by TheJez »

 

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