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Author Topic: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples  (Read 13347 times)

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Offline TNJazz

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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2008, 11:31:08 AM »
Here's a "live action" comp from last night.  Band is the Midnight Riders (ABB cover band).

One mic is the Nevaton MK49, the other is the JZ BT201 subcard.  Both were kind of DIN-ish, about 6 inches apart (height) and into the Oade CM R44 at 24/44.1khz.  Dither in Reaper with MBIT+ and tracking in Waveburner, but no other processing.  We were about 6 feet from the stage, about 8 feet up or so.

Thoughts on the two?  I won't say which mic pair is which, but it's probably not going to be hard to guess...

http://www.bigpurpledog.com/audio/JZnevComp.zip
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Offline muj

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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2008, 12:37:30 PM »

not sure which mic is it is, but i preferred sample one

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2008, 03:06:19 PM »
I generally like the openness of sample 2 which I'll guess is the JZ but there is a bit of top end tiz, an over emphazised bump up high that could be problematic and would bother some people more than me.  Sounds sort of similar in family likeness to the other samples.  I like the mid range clarity a lot.  Sample 1 is smoother overall, but a more bottom heavy. Nevvy. A warmer, smoother sound for those that prefer that and I know many do.

I'd like me a good subcard, they seem to get a lot right.

BTW I'm diggin' that Johnny Neel & Criminal Element.  Good stuff.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 03:09:00 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline JD

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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2008, 03:31:09 PM »
I vote for sample 1.

Sample one has a a nice warm, full sound.
Sample two seems to be lacking a bit in the bottom end, although it does seem to have better detail in high end.
Mics: DPA 4022, 4060; Nevaton MC51, MCE400; Gefell sms2000, m20, m21, m27
Pres: DPA MMA6000; Grace V2; Portico 5012; Sonosax SX-M2
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Offline TNJazz

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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2009, 03:17:31 PM »
More samples from the JZ BT-201.  Last night's show:

Jack Pearson & Stuart Duncan
subcards at stage lip -> Sonosax -> iRiver
had to add 20db of gain because it was so quiet.
Sample 1

The Fortunate Sons
subcards 6 feet from the stage -> Sonosax -> Oade CM R44
Sample 1
Sample 2
« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 03:29:11 PM by TNJazz »
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Offline TNJazz

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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2009, 04:52:09 PM »
More samples, this time some acoustic stuff from the Station Inn and some jam/fusion from the 12 South Tap Room.

Both samples are "on-stage recordings" and source is JZ BT-201 -> Mackie Onyx Satellite -> M-Audio MicroTrack @ 16bit/44.1k

These are samples from a band called "The Rubber Knife Gang" at the Station Inn.  Acoustic guitar, mando and bass trio.
subcard capsules:  http://www.bigpurpledog.com/audio/Fly_Away.flac
cardioid capsules:  http://www/bigpurpledog.com/audio/vixen.flac

This is a sample from on-stage at the 12 South Taproom (a small bar with basically no PA).  Band is Guthrie Trapp on guitar, Calvin Turner on bass, Doug Belote on drums, and I'm not sure who the keyboard player is...?
subcard capsules:  http://www.bigpurpledog.com/audio/jam.flac

All samples recorded by Tom Fusco.

More samples on the way later this weekend.  Comments are welcomed!
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Offline illconditioned

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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2009, 05:28:14 PM »
On "fly away", I hear some distortion on the vocal.  Is this the PA?

The mics are crisp and detailed, but sound a bit bright for my taste.  Or maybe they sound "brittle" on the high end.  I'm not sure, but I prefer the "warm" sound like the Beyerdynamic or Nevaton.

  Richard
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 05:29:46 PM by illconditioned »
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline TNJazz

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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2009, 06:20:08 PM »
On "fly away", I hear some distortion on the vocal.  Is this the PA?

The mics are crisp and detailed, but sound a bit bright for my taste.  Or maybe they sound "brittle" on the high end.  I'm not sure, but I prefer the "warm" sound like the Beyerdynamic or Nevaton.

  Richard


I don't hear any distortion?  Where in the track is it?  Tom was running pretty hot (the sample peaks at 0 I think) so it might be a recording "over"...

Did you listen to the Fortunate Sons samples?  If so, you still think they are bright mics?  I don't find them overly bright, but I do think they're quite detailed and pretty clear.  Kind of like DPAs...maybe that's the brittleness you're hearing?  I hear it on a couple of the earlier samples, but I'm chalking it up to being a result of the room sound for the most part.
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Offline illconditioned

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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2009, 06:34:22 PM »
On "fly away", I hear some distortion on the vocal.  Is this the PA?

The mics are crisp and detailed, but sound a bit bright for my taste.  Or maybe they sound "brittle" on the high end.  I'm not sure, but I prefer the "warm" sound like the Beyerdynamic or Nevaton.

  Richard


I don't hear any distortion?  Where in the track is it?  Tom was running pretty hot (the sample peaks at 0 I think) so it might be a recording "over"...

Did you listen to the Fortunate Sons samples?  If so, you still think they are bright mics?  I don't find them overly bright, but I do think they're quite detailed and pretty clear.  Kind of like DPAs...maybe that's the brittleness you're hearing?  I hear it on a couple of the earlier samples, but I'm chalking it up to being a result of the room sound for the most part.
I'll take a listen to other recordings.  It could be overload, but it sounds more like distortion from the PA.

You're talking about DPA402x sounding, right?  Well, I actually don't like those either.  I prefer Geffel M2xx.  Those have good detail, but they seem somehow warmer to me.

I guess we're all hearing different (but still crazy) stuff in our heads, lol.

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2009, 08:11:18 PM »
The thing I hear listening to these samples as a group is a slight bump around 5k.  I almost always tend to adjust eq of recordings of PA'd music slightly on playback a bit to sound right to me, so sample by sample its a harder to make a sure judgment than with samples of something purely acoustic for which I'm less likely to make any eq adjustment. Very generally, for these JZ samples I'll cut a db around 5k, perhaps widen the cut a 1/2 db a bit above & below that somewhat for some of it. 

By contrast I tend to boost a db or so of broader top end shelf boost for the Beyer 930 & Nev lav recordings. Both mics seem generally smoother in high end response but often sound a tad dull to my ear without the boost. The DPA 4060 sound which I'm very familiar with (and which Richard has noted as sounding similarly bright or with an uncomfortable peak for him) sometimes needs a similar slight cut slightly higher in frequency, closer to the 10k region. I value transparent detail, but it should be neutral and smooth, sometimes a combination that can be at odds.  I hear that combination in the Gefells. The Geffell subcards that Moke was testing before his DPA subcards (don't know the numbers of hand) had a significant diffuse field type emphasis that made a big prescence impact which sounded great for acoustic stuff from a distance, yet were also very smooth in response without a detectable resonant peakiness.  To me the tradeoff is often one between detail and smoothness.

Since I make adjustments one way or the other for most PA's music anyway, the issue for me becomes one of two things- how well does the mic 'take eq' to sound like my mental image of 'right' and how balanced does it sound for unamplified (and hopefully less tweak needing) acoustic music or ambient sources.  For someone who doesn't want to make any post adjustment, the question might instead be 'which weakness is less objectionable without correction?'

Thanks for all the samples, Dirk!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline illconditioned

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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2009, 08:45:43 PM »
The thing I hear listening to these samples as a group is a slight bump around 5k.  I almost always tend to adjust eq of recordings of PA'd music slightly on playback a bit to sound right to me, so sample by sample its a harder to make a sure judgment than with samples of something purely acoustic for which I'm less likely to make any eq adjustment. Very generally, for these JZ samples I'll cut a db around 5k, perhaps widen the cut a 1/2 db a bit above & below that somewhat for some of it. 

By contrast I tend to boost a db or so of broader top end shelf boost for the Beyer 930 & Nev lav recordings. Both mics seem generally smoother in high end response but often sound a tad dull to my ear without the boost. The DPA 4060 sound which I'm very familiar with (and which Richard has noted as sounding similarly bright or with an uncomfortable peak for him) sometimes needs a similar slight cut slightly higher in frequency, closer to the 10k region. I value transparent detail, but it should be neutral and smooth, sometimes a combination that can be at odds.  I hear that combination in the Gefells. The Geffell subcards that Moke was testing before his DPA subcards (don't know the numbers of hand) had a significant diffuse field type emphasis that made a big prescence impact which sounded great for acoustic stuff from a distance, yet were also very smooth in response without a detectable resonant peakiness.  To me the tradeoff is often one between detail and smoothness.

Since I make adjustments one way or the other for most PA's music anyway, the issue for me becomes one of two things- how well does the mic 'take eq' to sound like my mental image of 'right' and how balanced does it sound for unamplified (and hopefully less tweak needing) acoustic music or ambient sources.  For someone who doesn't want to make any post adjustment, the question might instead be 'which weakness is less objectionable without correction?'

Thanks for all the samples, Dirk!
Hmm.  Maybe we're hearing similar things.

But, I would like to suggest it is not just EQ.  Maybe there is actually a little bit of distortion in those frequencies you mention.

I might classify mics based on: detail, color, and accuracy/distortion.  It would seem many mics have two but not the three.  The Beyerdynamic seem to have natural, ie., uncolored sound, and no audible distortion, but they lack the detail of the DPA406x.  The 406x have detail, are natural/uncolored, but have a slight distortion on the high end.  What do you think?

Of course, I'm trying to get an (omni) capsule with all three.  Nevaton MKE400 or Countryman B3 are the closest I've come so far.

 Richard
« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 08:48:19 PM by illconditioned »
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline TNJazz

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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2009, 10:04:51 PM »
On "fly away", I hear some distortion on the vocal.  Is this the PA?

The mics are crisp and detailed, but sound a bit bright for my taste.  Or maybe they sound "brittle" on the high end.  I'm not sure, but I prefer the "warm" sound like the Beyerdynamic or Nevaton.

  Richard


I don't hear any distortion?  Where in the track is it?  Tom was running pretty hot (the sample peaks at 0 I think) so it might be a recording "over"...

Did you listen to the Fortunate Sons samples?  If so, you still think they are bright mics?  I don't find them overly bright, but I do think they're quite detailed and pretty clear.  Kind of like DPAs...maybe that's the brittleness you're hearing?  I hear it on a couple of the earlier samples, but I'm chalking it up to being a result of the room sound for the most part.
I'll take a listen to other recordings.  It could be overload, but it sounds more like distortion from the PA.

You're talking about DPA402x sounding, right?  Well, I actually don't like those either.  I prefer Geffel M2xx.  Those have good detail, but they seem somehow warmer to me.

I guess we're all hearing different (but still crazy) stuff in our heads, lol.

  Richard


Yes, similar in some ways to the DPA 402x.  Then again, all DPAs sound very similar to me so I guess I'm actually talking about the 406x and all that as well.  I think we've discussed the fatiguing aspects of those mics at times.  The JZ's are similar but I don't find them to be quite as fatiguing...at least not yet.  Perhaps what we're describing though is actually extreme detail?

Anyway, I think it's a recording "over".  these mics were on stage  about chest high and literally a foot or two away from the band.  So there's no PA to speak of, and only a slight amount of monitor bleed, if any.
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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2009, 11:53:05 AM »
 

By contrast I tend to boost a db or so of broader top end shelf boost for the Beyer 930 & Nev lav recordings. Both mics seem generally smoother in high end response but often sound a tad dull to my ear without the boost. The DPA 4060 sound which I'm very familiar with (and which Richard has noted as sounding similarly bright or with an uncomfortable peak for him) sometimes needs a similar slight cut slightly higher in frequency, closer to the 10k region. I value transparent detail, but it should be neutral and smooth, sometimes a combination that can be at odds.  I hear that combination in the Gefells. The Geffell subcards that Moke was testing before his DPA subcards (don't know the numbers of hand) had a significant diffuse field type emphasis that made a big prescence impact which sounded great for acoustic stuff from a distance, yet were also very smooth in response without a detectable resonant peakiness.   To me the tradeoff is often one between detail and smoothness.



The Gefell mics that you refer to Moke testing above were cards, not subcards.  Gefell MV692 bodies with Gefell M94 card caps (great mics, I own a pair).  Moke purchased those mics from balou2...

 ;)
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2009, 01:22:51 PM »
Ahh. Thanks for the correction. They do sound smooth and detailed with a diffuse eq emphasis to me.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline TNJazz

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Re: JZ Microphones BT-201 samples
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2009, 07:37:40 AM »
Omni capsules, stage lip.  Split approximately 3-4 feet.  Band was unmiked (it's a tiny bar), so this is pure stage sound.

JZ BT201 omni -> V3 @ 24/44.1

No adjustments except for dither in Ozone 3


Guthrie Trapp on guitar, Dave Rowe on bass, Doug Belote on drums and Jeff Coffin on sax.

http://www.bigpurpledog.com/audio/JZomniV3sample.flac
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