Topic: Church Audio CA-14 cardioids vs. Core Sound Cardioids (bb) - with sample

[fmaderjr]

That Sonic Studios preamp must have a battery box in the chain to power anything but a Sonic Studios DSM mic for optimum performance. According to the specs from Guy's site, it only provides 1.6 volts of plug in power (because DSM mics are designed to run on low voltage).

SPECIFICATIONS
INPUT: ~1500 ohms;1.6 volts for powering/ amplifying DSM-1S/6S mics   

Your Core Sound mics sound good to you because they have a battery box attached. Chris Church recommends at least 5 volts of plug in power, so it's not surprising that his mics don't sound right with your preamp. I 'm sure Chris would have pointed this out had he realized the low voltage your preamp puts out.

I love Chris Church's products-best bang for the buck in the business. Before you send them back to Chris why not use the CA-14 & ST-9100 to tape an opening act that you don't care about recording and see what you think of the result?

At the moment, I am unable to download your clips, but I imagine any problem with the sound in clip 1 (CA-14 & ST-9100) must be as a result of placement and other flaws in the test as Chris says.              
     

     

[jefflester]

That Sonic Studios preamp must have a battery box in the chain to power anything but a Sonic Studios DSM mic for optimum performance. According to the specs from Guy's site, it only provides 1.6 volts of plug in power (because DSM mics are designed to run on low voltage).

SPECIFICATIONS
INPUT: ~1500 ohms;1.6 volts for powering/ amplifying DSM-1S/6S mics   

Your Core Sound mics sound good to you because they have a battery box attached. Chis Church recommends at least 5 volts of plug in power, so it's not surprising that his mics don't sound right with your preamp. I 'm sure Chris would have pointed this out had he realized the low voltage your preamp puts out.

He did, but it kinda got glossed over.

And guy sonics preamp will not power my mics properly....
Chris

[colargol]

Hi again!

I was finally able to test the CA14 cards the other day (didn't want to risk testing on a show I cared a lot about). Here's an excerpt from the result:

http://www.2shared.com/file/5016135/3b5eab97/cut2.html

(John Legend, if anyone is interested)

Lineage:
CA14 cards > CA-9100 > R-09HR > CoolEditPro (Normalization) > flac

I am pretty satisfied with the result, although I still think the mics are a bit too boomy for my preference. Also, there is more noise than I am used to...
But, having said that, these mics are perfectly fine in a concert setting with relatively loud volume...

-C

[Church-Audio]

Hi again!

I was finally able to test the CA14 cards the other day (didn't want to risk testing on a show I cared a lot about). Here's an excerpt from the result:

http://www.2shared.com/file/5016135/3b5eab97/cut2.html

(John Legend, if anyone is interested)

Lineage:
CA14 cards > CA-9100 > R-09HR > CoolEditPro (Normalization) > flac

I am pretty satisfied with the result, although I still think the mics are a bit too boomy for my preference. Also, there is more noise than I am used to...
But, having said that, these mics are perfectly fine in a concert setting with relatively loud volume...

-C

What gain setting did you use on the 9100? and on your edirol? How were the mics angled what technique was used? Just wondering.

Chris

[colargol]

What gain setting did you use on the 9100? and on your edirol? How were the mics angled what technique was used? Just wondering.

The Edirol was on 53, I think, line in of course. The 9100 about "half way". The mics were angled in a slight V position towards one of the stacks, which were about 5 meters from me. The mics were mounted on a hat.

-c

[Church-Audio]

What gain setting did you use on the 9100? and on your edirol? How were the mics angled what technique was used? Just wondering.

The Edirol was on 53, I think, line in of course. The 9100 about "half way". The mics were angled in a slight V position towards one of the stacks, which were about 5 meters from me. The mics were mounted on a hat.

-c

The preamp should be at more then half way you are actually attenuating the signal that is why your signal to noise ratio is so bad. Try running the preamp at 95% and then back off your edirol input.

Chris

[colargol]

The preamp should be at more then half way you are actually attenuating the signal that is why your signal to noise ratio is so bad. Try running the preamp at 95% and then back off your edirol input.
Chris

Thanks for that advice, I'll try that next time... It's a pity that it's necessary to keep the preamp gain that high, because I wanted to use that to adjust the volume since the edirol volume is stuck with the hold button ;-)

-c

[Dede2002]

What gain setting did you use on the 9100? and on your edirol? How were the mics angled what technique was used? Just wondering.

The Edirol was on 53, I think, line in of course. The 9100 about "half way". The mics were angled in a slight V position towards one of the stacks, which were about 5 meters from me. The mics were mounted on a hat.

-c

The preamp should be at more then half way you are actually attenuating the signal that is why your signal to noise ratio is so bad. Try running the preamp at 95% and then back off your edirol input.

Chris

Chris,

I'd like to ask you a few questions , if you don't mind. 
Just curious about your comments. As far as I can see, Colargol's R-09HR was set at just around Unity gain. So was the 9100
(volume at halfway=unity, roughly speaking), in this particular show the 9100 acting like a regular BB. Perfect scenario.
That being said, why did you say that the gain should be cranked up on the 9100 and reduced on the R-09HR to avoid a bad signal to noise ratio?
As a R-09HR user should I always use a preamp with the CA-14, even at loud shows?  What if I just use a regular bb at loud concerts?
Thanks in advance.

[heyitsmejess]

ive always ran the 9100 with the full gain, and adjusted the input level on the recorder.

[Dede2002]

ive always ran the 9100 with the full gain, and adjusted the input level on the recorder.

Thanks for the input, friend.
Yes, some of my friends do exactly that. Others ( me included), set the recorder somewhere around 50 and adjust the preamp volume level. But only at quiet concerts. I just can't see why should I use a preamp at a loud rock concert. That's why I'm asking Chris all those questions.

Take care.

[Church-Audio]

What gain setting did you use on the 9100? and on your edirol? How were the mics angled what technique was used? Just wondering.

The Edirol was on 53, I think, line in of course. The 9100 about "half way". The mics were angled in a slight V position towards one of the stacks, which were about 5 meters from me. The mics were mounted on a hat.

-c

The preamp should be at more then half way you are actually attenuating the signal that is why your signal to noise ratio is so bad. Try running the preamp at 95% and then back off your edirol input.

Chris

Chris,

I'd like to ask you a few questions , if you don't mind. 
Just curious about your comments. As far as I can see, Colargol's R-09HR was set at just around Unity gain. So was the 9100
(volume at halfway=unity, roughly speaking), in this particular show the 9100 acting like a regular BB. Perfect scenario.
That being said, why did you say that the gain should be cranked up on the 9100 and reduced on the R-09HR to avoid a bad signal to noise ratio?
As a R-09HR user should I always use a preamp with the CA-14, even at loud shows?  What if I just use a regular bb at loud concerts?
Thanks in advance.

Unity gain on the R-09 HR is at setting -38 with a -10 db input with a 5k output impedance from the source. So setting #38 for most sources via the line input will produce a wav file of the same amplitude of the input signal as seen at the line input. So If your running at 50 you are using gain and you would be better off using my preamp then the HR as my preamp still has a better signal to noise then the HR. As for loud concerts you will need less gain but you should still try and get as much as you can from my preamp. Using a battery box is fine for "some" loud shows but the definition of loud to some might not be to others and unless tapers start carrying Db meters and approach taping with a more scientific method ( in relation to knowing the acoustic level at an event and therefore knowing how much gain is actually needed to maintain a good signal to noise ratio ) Its better to play it safe and have a preamp then to not have a preamp IMO.

I recommend if you own my preamp to use it all the time.
Chris

[Dede2002]

What gain setting did you use on the 9100? and on your edirol? How were the mics angled what technique was used? Just wondering.

The Edirol was on 53, I think, line in of course. The 9100 about "half way". The mics were angled in a slight V position towards one of the stacks, which were about 5 meters from me. The mics were mounted on a hat.

-c

The preamp should be at more then half way you are actually attenuating the signal that is why your signal to noise ratio is so bad. Try running the preamp at 95% and then back off your edirol input.

Chris

Chris,

I'd like to ask you a few questions , if you don't mind. 
Just curious about your comments. As far as I can see, Colargol's R-09HR was set at just around Unity gain. So was the 9100
(volume at halfway=unity, roughly speaking), in this particular show the 9100 acting like a regular BB. Perfect scenario.
That being said, why did you say that the gain should be cranked up on the 9100 and reduced on the R-09HR to avoid a bad signal to noise ratio?
As a R-09HR user should I always use a preamp with the CA-14, even at loud shows?  What if I just use a regular bb at loud concerts?
Thanks in advance.

Unity gain on the R-09 HR is at setting -38 with a -10 db input with a 5k output impedance from the source. So setting #38 for most sources via the line input will produce a wav file of the same amplitude of the input signal as seen at the line input. So If your running at 50 you are using gain and you would be better off using my preamp then the HR as my preamp still has a better signal to noise then the HR. As for loud concerts you will need less gain but you should still try and get as much as you can from my preamp. Using a battery box is fine for "some" loud shows but the definition of loud to some might not be to others and unless tapers start carrying Db meters and approach taping with a more scientific method ( in relation to knowing the acoustic level at an event and therefore knowing how much gain is actually needed to maintain a good signal to noise ratio ) Its better to play it safe and have a preamp then to not have a preamp IMO.

I recommend if you own my preamp to use it all the time.
Chris

Well, being regarded as a master on the customer service field, I'm sure you know that I own you awesome CA-9100.
I'm happy that the R-09HR Unity gain has been finally disclosed, thanks for that, Chris.  The whole taping world was waiting for that,me incuded.
Thanks a lot for that.

[Church-Audio]

What gain setting did you use on the 9100? and on your edirol? How were the mics angled what technique was used? Just wondering.

The Edirol was on 53, I think, line in of course. The 9100 about "half way". The mics were angled in a slight V position towards one of the stacks, which were about 5 meters from me. The mics were mounted on a hat.

-c

The preamp should be at more then half way you are actually attenuating the signal that is why your signal to noise ratio is so bad. Try running the preamp at 95% and then back off your edirol input.

Chris

Chris,

I'd like to ask you a few questions , if you don't mind. 
Just curious about your comments. As far as I can see, Colargol's R-09HR was set at just around Unity gain. So was the 9100
(volume at halfway=unity, roughly speaking), in this particular show the 9100 acting like a regular BB. Perfect scenario.
That being said, why did you say that the gain should be cranked up on the 9100 and reduced on the R-09HR to avoid a bad signal to noise ratio?
As a R-09HR user should I always use a preamp with the CA-14, even at loud shows?  What if I just use a regular bb at loud concerts?
Thanks in advance.

Unity gain on the R-09 HR is at setting -38 with a -10 db input with a 5k output impedance from the source. So setting #38 for most sources via the line input will produce a wav file of the same amplitude of the input signal as seen at the line input. So If your running at 50 you are using gain and you would be better off using my preamp then the HR as my preamp still has a better signal to noise then the HR. As for loud concerts you will need less gain but you should still try and get as much as you can from my preamp. Using a battery box is fine for "some" loud shows but the definition of loud to some might not be to others and unless tapers start carrying Db meters and approach taping with a more scientific method ( in relation to knowing the acoustic level at an event and therefore knowing how much gain is actually needed to maintain a good signal to noise ratio ) Its better to play it safe and have a preamp then to not have a preamp IMO.

I recommend if you own my preamp to use it all the time.
Chris

Well, being regarded as a master on the customer service field, I'm sure you know that I own you awesome CA-9100.
I'm happy that the R-09HR Unity gain has been finally disclosed, thanks for that, Chris.  The whole taping world was waiting for that,me included.
Thanks a lot for that.

Thanks for the kind words.

It only took me about 10 million trys until I found the right gain setting.

[Dede2002]

What gain setting did you use on the 9100? and on your edirol? How were the mics angled what technique was used? Just wondering.

The Edirol was on 53, I think, line in of course. The 9100 about "half way". The mics were angled in a slight V position towards one of the stacks, which were about 5 meters from me. The mics were mounted on a hat.

-c

The preamp should be at more then half way you are actually attenuating the signal that is why your signal to noise ratio is so bad. Try running the preamp at 95% and then back off your edirol input.

Chris

Chris,

I'd like to ask you a few questions , if you don't mind. 
Just curious about your comments. As far as I can see, Colargol's R-09HR was set at just around Unity gain. So was the 9100
(volume at halfway=unity, roughly speaking), in this particular show the 9100 acting like a regular BB. Perfect scenario.
That being said, why did you say that the gain should be cranked up on the 9100 and reduced on the R-09HR to avoid a bad signal to noise ratio?
As a R-09HR user should I always use a preamp with the CA-14, even at loud shows?  What if I just use a regular bb at loud concerts?
Thanks in advance.

Unity gain on the R-09 HR is at setting -38 with a -10 db input with a 5k output impedance from the source. So setting #38 for most sources via the line input will produce a wav file of the same amplitude of the input signal as seen at the line input. So If your running at 50 you are using gain and you would be better off using my preamp then the HR as my preamp still has a better signal to noise then the HR. As for loud concerts you will need less gain but you should still try and get as much as you can from my preamp. Using a battery box is fine for "some" loud shows but the definition of loud to some might not be to others and unless tapers start carrying Db meters and approach taping with a more scientific method ( in relation to knowing the acoustic level at an event and therefore knowing how much gain is actually needed to maintain a good signal to noise ratio ) Its better to play it safe and have a preamp then to not have a preamp IMO.

I recommend if you own my preamp to use it all the time.
Chris

Well, being regarded as a master on the customer service field, I'm sure you know that I own you awesome CA-9100.
I'm happy that the R-09HR Unity gain has been finally disclosed, thanks for that, Chris.  The whole taping world was waiting for that,me included.
Thanks a lot for that.

Thanks for the kind words.

It only took me about 10 million trys until I found the right gain setting.

You're welcome  .
10 million? I wouldn't expect nothing less from you. Keep up that awesome work. 

[Ekib]

I do not want to start a Church Audio vs. Core Sound discussion, but there seems to be a lot of negative feelings towards Core Sound and positive feelings towards Church Audio on this site. Are people really that dissatisfied with the Core Sound Mics, or is it Len's service attitude? Because I think his cardioid mics are pretty good :-)

Yes , that's the way I feel about Core Sound mic's too.
I think it has to with the fact that Chris answers every question here frequently. While Len hardly looks around here ( no offense ). So people get a better impression of his mic's. It is really cool Chris answers questions. I don't mean that in a bad way. But he's very good at marketing his mic's here.

Core Sound makes excellent mic's. Even Chris should and probably would acknowledge that. The Core Sound Stealthy Cardioid is an excellent mic. Now I have made my point here more than enough it is my favourite mic ever. I don't ever want to change using another mic.
There's nothing I don't like it.

About Len's customer service. I have never had any bad experience with him. Sometimes it takes him a little longer to reply. But he goes out of his way helping you with your question or problem. He once gave me a very fair deal when I had to replace a pair after using it for a long time.