Topic: Recommendations for replacing Beyer MC930s?

[terabyte23]

Hi folks,

I've taped a few shows now with my Beyerdynamic MC930 mics and I find them too warm/muddy-sounding for my ears.  I like the bass response overall, but I am looking for something with more detail and less mud.  I mostly tape loud rock/metal shows in small and medium-size clubs.  What cardioid mics would be good replacements for the MC930s?  I want something that has good bass response but more detail than the MC930s.  I don't see much in the same price range as the MC930s - is there anything near that price that might fit the bill?

If I decide to go up in price (yikes) the Gefell M300 looks like a good contender, but I wonder if it would be too "bright" and not have enough low end (saw a few posts to that effect).  The Senn MKH8040 and AKG C480B both look nice too.

I know it's subjective...thanks for any opinions/advice!

[illconditioned]

Hi folks,

I've taped a few shows now with my Beyerdynamic MC930 mics and I find them too warm/muddy-sounding for my ears.  I like the bass response overall, but I am looking for something with more detail and less mud.  I mostly tape loud rock/metal shows in small and medium-size clubs.  What cardioid mics would be good replacements for the MC930s?  I want something that has good bass response but more detail than the MC930s.  I don't see much in the same price range as the MC930s - is there anything near that price that might fit the bill?

If I decide to go up in price (yikes) the Gefell M300 looks like a good contender, but I wonder if it would be too "bright" and not have enough low end (saw a few posts to that effect).  The Senn MKH8040 and AKG C480B both look nice too.

I know it's subjective...thanks for any opinions/advice!

You'll have to pay quite a bit more money to get something sounding nicer than these.

AKG483/463 sound like they've got more detail, but listen closely (distortion) before making the jump.  I still prefer the Beyerdynamic if given the choice.

The obvious choice to me is Geffel M200 series, but you'll pay a lot more for those.  I have not listened closely to the M300.

  Richard

[dmonkey]

What about Milab VM-44 Links? To my ears, they sound like they have a nice bottom end with very well detailed mids/highs.

[stevetoney]

I'd consider Neumann KM184, AKG-480 > CK63 combo, or the MBHO-600a > kc200 actives which are listed in the yard sale right now.  All of these would be around $1k used.

[PH]

I've noticed the same thing about those Beyers, huge sounding but not very much detail.
That can be great for certain situations or instruments, but I have noticed that muddy effect on
several of the recordings done with those.

If you want more detail, certainly look at the AKG line. I actually prefer the sound of the 460's
to the 480's. They have the same detail as their newer brothers but a bit more sheen on the top end.
They are certainly alot cheaper on the used market. Plus you have the various capulse options to choose from, which the Beyers can't touch.

Schoeps give the most detail, but come with the highest premium. I like what I've heard from the Milabs.
Nice size factor too on those.

I would stay away from the KM184's. Many of the newer ones sounds like ass. The older ones are much better but
it's hard to know what to look for when buying those.

I think the Peluso's are a great buy and terrific option, certainly the best in that price range.
You get some fantastic detail, but they can be a bit fatiguing to my ears. Not sure why that is.

If you can't afford Schoeps, I would go with AKG 460's and several sets of caps.

[ArchivalAudio]

I'd say Milab VM-44 Links

check this thread out for some comps and other fun info
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,112988.0.html
and team milab
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,114343.0.html
and
under appreciated european mics
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,85379.0.html
I really like mine
it is all subjective
listen in LMA
peace
-- Ian

[stirinthesauce]

I went from beyers to milabs and now back to beyers.  Try a different pre in front of the beyers.  Plenty of detail, just never a fan of these mics with an oade mod (I originally ran mine in 06 into a w+mod and I see you running a cm mod r-44).  These mics really (REALLY) shine with an apogee pre and or a/d after them.

[PH]

When I think of that Apogee sound, I think HUGE sound but not much in the way of added detail.
I think the Apogee is a much better pre than what OP has and I agree it would make the Beyer's sound
better. I'm just not personally into that BIG hyped sound, I would rather have added detail.
The AKG Schoeps DPA Grace school of thought. Transparency, but to each his/her own.

I think the best approach is try to some find some different sources out there using Grace preamps paired with the mics you are interested in.
The Grace pres are going to have the least amount of coloration of the source mics. Try multiple sources in different rooms.
I think you will hone in on a preference for style of mics pretty quickly.

Cheers, Phil

[illconditioned]

When I think of that Apogee sound, I think HUGE sound but not much in the way of added detail.
I think the Apogee is a much better pre than what OP has and I agree it would make the Beyer's sound
better. I'm just not personally into that BIG hyped sound, I would rather have added detail.
The AKG Schoeps DPA Grace school of thought. Transparency, but to each his/her own.

I think the best approach is try to some find some different sources out there using Grace preamps paired with the mics you are interested in.
The Grace pres are going to have the least amount of coloration of the source mics. Try multiple sources in different rooms.
I think you will hone in on a preference for style of mics pretty quickly.

Cheers, Phil

I think I've had this discussion before.

I like detail too, but I'm pretty sensitive to "edginess", which *may* be due to distortion.  I don't know.  Anyway, I would rate the AKG 460/480 and the Geffel as both being "detailed", but I find the AKG a little edgy compared to the Geffel.  I haven't formed an opinion of the DPA yet, but I certainly find their lav mics 406x to be edgy.  402x I'm not sure yet.

  Richard

[PH]

Sorry if I offended any Beyer owners out there. Just commenting on preference not quality.
Something I have noticed about HUGE sounding setups like the Beyer>Apogee (or similar) is that it sounds killer right away. It doesn't require much eq or compression.
I think you sacrifice some detail by going that route, but it would probably sound better out of the box than an AKG>Grace (or similar) setup.
With the transparent recordings, they usually need some gentle massaging to get a bigger sound. I think that is the reason I lean that way, with a little tweak here or there I feel you can achieve the best of both worlds.

[hammerhorror]

I would try out a pair of the JW Mod AKG 460's.

When I owned a pair, I thought they really shined on the louder rock and metal shows I taped.

[ghellquist]

I would stay away from the KM184's. Many of the newer ones sounds like ass. The older ones are much better but
it's hard to know what to look for when buying those.

Sorry, but this statement is pure disinformation. Unless you have personal experience with different series numbers of the Neumann KM184, please stay away from making this kind of comments as it will confuse people.

You might not like the sound of the KM184 which is a quite different thing.

// Gunnar

[su6oxone]

Sorry, but this statement is pure disinformation. Unless you have personal experience with different series numbers of the Neumann KM184, please stay away from making this kind of comments as it will confuse people.

You might not like the sound of the KM184 which is a quite different thing.

Completely agree.  If you're going to post s*** like that, back it up with some A-B comparisons of the different sounding serials.   

[bgalizio]

Definitely look at the Peluso CEMC6's. The subcard caps are great.

[grider]

460 would be my suggestion, or perhaps 480; the 460 will be warmer and more forgiving with less bass, the 480 is very detailed and very bassy but very unforgiving in a bad sounding room