Topic: Budget ~$1500. What Mics?

[ts]

So what would you spend ~1500 on? I have a friend with a hole in his pocket. Looking for small sized SD's. Preferably actives.

My choices:

Gefell M20(used)>Nbob's
Schoeps MK4(used)>NBob's
Beyer CK930's (New)
DPA 2011c's (New)
KM 184's (New)
Neumann KM140's with actives (Used)

What else?

Edited for mistakes and clarification.

[jnorman]

ts - this is very subjective, without any definitive answer.  over the years, i have owned pairs of schoeps CMC64s, DPA 4011s, 4006s, 4061s, 4090s, sennheiser mkh 40s, gefell m300s, akg c481s, 461s, 391s, neumann km140s, km184s, AT4051s, and a wide variety of other midrange to very expensive mics.  i have liked almost all of them.  in the end, for my particlular tastes, i always found myself coming back to the neumanns. 

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So what would you spend ~1500 on? I have a friend with a hole in his pocket.

My choices:

Gefell M20(used)>Nbob's
Schoeps MK4(used)>NBob's
AKG CK930's (New)
DPA 2011c's (New)
KM 184's (New)
Neumann KM140's (Used)

What else?

do you mean the AKG ck61s, or the beyer ck930s?

If I had to only have one pair, I'd probably get the DPA 2011s, they have a tighter cardioid pattern than normal, they are relatively colorless, and they are expandable once you get into the system. After that, I'd pick either the gefell or beyers (likely in that order). Both are colored mics, so there will be some genres that just won't mesh as well with them but they have beautiful sounds. After that it's a toss between schoeps, akgs and neumanns. Something about the schoeps coloration bothers me on everything except a few styles of music, but I'd probably pick those over AKGs (which I don't necessarily fancy for room taping asd I don't like the spitty house sound with cymbals/vocals) and neumanns (which I have a love/hate relationship with). The neumanns are dead last as I think they are specialty mics. I love them on bluegrass and some distorted rock guitars, but I think they are crap on a ton of other stuff. The coloration either works well or it doesn't for me.

Just my 2 cents. As jnorman points out; it's particular tastes.

[cashandkerouac]

Sennheiser MKH8040 (used)

[bluelawn]

Milab VM-44 Links? I love mine...

[stevetoney]

Better bang for buck buying used.  Otherwise give him a list and tell him to spend about an hour a day over 4 or 5 days listening to samples on the archive and then let him tell you what he wants.  Make sure he doesn't decide based on one or two listening sessions only bc his taste might change  a little from one day to next.

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I still think listening to archive samples is a crap shoot... 

and yes, I'm aware that it's probably the least bad option in a battle of lesser evils.

[stevetoney]

Listening to archive isn't absolute by any means, but I think it's less of a crap shoot than basing off of someone elses tastes or not listening at all to get a general idea if the sound is something you'd be satisfied with.  I think archive can give you a general feel of the flavor and quality of sound you'll get, realizing of course that there are many variables involved.

I have two specific experiences that come to mind...

Back in '06 when I got 'upgrade-itis' I got some MBHO's and I asked what preamp I should buy.  Almost everyone said a SD MP-2.  I listened to MBHO > MP-2 samples on the archive and generally I didn't like them.  But I was new to this and I figured well everyone can't be wrong and maybe what I can get will be different so I posted an ISO for an MP2 and it hit.  I got the MP-2 and my recordings sounded just like what I sampled...and I didn't like them.  V8 shot to the head!  I sold the preamp within a couple of months for less than I bought it for. 

Second example I know I'll get hate mail about, but what the hell...is a Grace V3.  Rarely hear a source on LMA that has a V3 in the chain that I really like.  But so many people love that preamp and frankly, I love its form factor, feature sets, the company, etc.  I love everything about it but the sound.  I've convinced myself for some reason THREE separate times to buy a V3 even though I know I don't like the sound, only to turn around and sell it within a short time after I bought it. 

If I'd just listen to and follow what I hear on archive, the bad decisions wouldn't have been made.  But I realize it's all subjective.  Anyway, these were two of my experiences.

[bombdiggity]

A list of mics to listen to that may be in the price range is the best option. 

We all hear different. 

I made my choices based on what I heard (though one absolutely has to factor in the types of venues and music involved - that after all is why some of us seek out different gear to use in different settings).  I seem to have heard enough that was relevant that I wasn't disappointed. 

Certain mics widely recommended (and mentioned above) I don't like and there are plenty around who don't like what I prefer. 

EDIT: Also as noted the rest of the chain is a significant factor (relative to price and coloration/lack thereof). 

[acidjack]

$1500 will be pretty tight for Schoeps plus cables, especially after you add the other stuff you'll need like wind screens, mounts, etc. 

Beyond that I think the advice about what kind of music the person intends to record and in what situations is valuable. Also, how much they like to play with EQ and such things. Flatter mics like DPAs and Schoeps won't necessarily sound good, IMO, unless you're willing to use EQ (though that's less-true of some Schoeps than others).

Some mics also respond much better with certain pres than others, so that part of his gear chain is important, too.  To take a simple example, I think Gefells and MBHOs benefit from that transformery warmth of the Aerco. To me, Schoeps and DPAs are benefited by the cleaner sound of the SD preamps (and probably the V2/V3; I've never owned one of those).

It really all depends. Being realistic about price range, the AKG system is probably the most versatile, and you could get hypers and cards for what just one capsule would run you in some of those others.

[ts]

I guess I should have added: he will be borrowing my V2 indefinitely and will be recording stuff like ABB, DMB, PLF, Phish, etc.

Thinking back, my favorite combo was Neumann>V2/3. Second fav is DPA>SD 7 series, for this same type of music. 3rd was Schoeps>V2/3. My bud kinda has his wallet set for the M20>Nbob deal, but used is a real longshot on those.

And yes, he has been all over the archive. He's a mid 80's GD taper looking to get back in the game.

Thanks everyone. Keep the thoughts coming.

[cashandkerouac]

I think archive can give you a general feel of the flavor and quality of sound you'll get, realizing of course that there are many variables involved.

listening to samples on the LMA is frought with peril, but if you take the variables into consideration and don't think of the samples as exact representations of the performance/quality of the mics then it can be extremely helpful.  since ts's buddy is mainly wanting to record "jam bands" (for lack of a better term) the LMA is a good resource.   

[F.O.Bean]

Either used mk4/41>NBobs or new mg20/21>NBobs

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Listening to archive isn't absolute by any means, but I think it's less of a crap shoot than basing off of someone elses tastes or not listening at all to get a general idea if the sound is something you'd be satisfied with.

I'll go for that.

To be fair, he asked what would you choose.   

[H₂O]

I'd look go for the DPA's, Schoeps or the Gefells

Buy used if you can which will limit you to Schoeps (unless you have a lead on the Gefells already)

If you go the DPA route I'd get the new rear address extension cables instead of the others - you will prob need to wait until they release a stereo kit

I am a Schoeps fan over the other two but very curious about the other two