Author Topic: Festival mic configurations ???? (Read 7587 times)

rowjimmytour · « **on:** May 24, 2005, 01:27:08 PM »

This summer I am hittin' up a fest. and I have a 36" tbar and my swivel akg bar and I was wonderin' about others experiences w/ say bluegrass music (YMSB,HBRSB, RE) outdoors and if omnis are okay or if it is better to run DIN. Also a little jazz, funk (JJO, KDTU, Skeric, Grag maha), in my guestimate I would think OMNIS would be the shit. Also I have DIY rat skins to put over my wind screens so wind should not be a big issue. If wind comes in play I understand XY @120 cuts out a lot wind factor. Just lookin' for ideas and input but I realize pratice and trial and error is the best solution. The problem with this is I don't get to tape as much as I would like to.
Peace

Tim · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2005, 02:16:19 PM »

Omni's would most definitely be the proverbial shit

fob split omni's are great

also try and build a jecklin disc

omni's are less suceptible to wind noise too... just another bonus for omni's

BJ · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2005, 02:21:37 PM »

Quote from: Tim on May 24, 2005, 02:16:19 PM

Omni's would most definitely be the proverbial shit

fob split omni's are great

also try and build a jecklin disc

omni's are less suceptible to wind noise too... just another bonus for omni's

I gots a question...IF the wind is blowing hard from left to right..and you had a jecklin disc...would the left mics pick up ALOT of wind..and the right none(being blocked by the disc?)

never taped outdoors...so this has got me thinking...

DIY rat skins? got picks, guide etc?? i searched.found nothing..but not a really thourough search!

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #3 on:** May 24, 2005, 02:23:42 PM »

Quote from: rowjimmytour on May 24, 2005, 01:27:08 PM

wonderin' about others experiences w/ say bluegrass music (YMSB,HBRSB, RE) outdoors and if omnis are okay or if it is better to run DIN

I suspect omnis are hit or miss for outdoor bluegrass, depending on [1] whether or not the crowd is chatty, [2] whether or not the PA is putting out strong SPLs. IME, [1] is a crapshoot and depends on the fest, and [2] bluegrass fest PAs rarely put out the kind of SPLs required to drown out a [1] potentially chatty crowd. I say prepare for both split or Jecklin omnis and DIN and adjust as necessary at the fest.

wbrisette · « **Reply #4 on:** May 24, 2005, 02:24:41 PM »

Quote from: Tim on May 24, 2005, 02:16:19 PM

Omni's would most definitely be the proverbial shit

fob split omni's are great

also try and build a jecklin disc

omni's are less suceptible to wind noise too... just another bonus for omni's

Be very careful with omnis. Depending on your distance from the source of the sound, you could end up with shit (and not the proverbial kind). I always mix my omnis with a card source. The omni provides the warmth and atmosphere, the cards pickup 80% of the source sound.

Wayne

JackoRoses · « **Reply #5 on:** May 24, 2005, 02:31:51 PM »

Quote from: Brian Skalinder on May 24, 2005, 02:23:42 PM

Quote from: rowjimmytour on May 24, 2005, 01:27:08 PM
wonderin' about others experiences w/ say bluegrass music (YMSB,HBRSB, RE) outdoors and if omnis are okay or if it is better to run DIN

I suspect omnis are hit or miss for outdoor bluegrass, depending on [1] whether or not the crowd is chatty, [2] whether or not the PA is putting out strong SPLs. IME, [1] is a crapshoot and depends on the fest, and [2] bluegrass fest PAs rarely put out the kind of SPLs required to drown out a [1] potentially chatty crowd. I say prepare for both split or Jecklin omnis and DIN and adjust as necessary at the fest.

I second that. I did a bluegrass show this past weekend and the sound is subpar.
I had to crank the gain all the way up just to get a decent signal.
In hindsight I shold of set up stage lip or in that proximity with the omnis.
It was very gusty out over the weekend and I have noticed minimal wind noise
then when I did with the cards. I think I hear more of the windnoise from the stage mics then mine..
I now have a reason to try the jecklin so this summer I hope to experiment with that.
I also want to try a bigger split with the omnis then the shure vert bar can give me.

Tim · « **Reply #6 on:** May 24, 2005, 03:00:14 PM »

Quote from: wbrisette on May 24, 2005, 02:24:41 PM

Quote from: Tim on May 24, 2005, 02:16:19 PM
Omni's would most definitely be the proverbial shit

fob split omni's are great

also try and build a jecklin disc

omni's are less suceptible to wind noise too... just another bonus for omni's

Be very careful with omnis. Depending on your distance from the source of the sound, you could end up with shit (and not the proverbial kind). I always mix my omnis with a card source. The omni provides the warmth and atmosphere, the cards pickup 80% of the source sound.

Wayne

get in a good spot and you don't need the cards, especially outdoors

location is the most important part of taping and it becomes even more important with omnis

It seems as though a lot of people are almost scared of omni's... I've embraced them, at some point I'll add some directional mics to my arsenal but I'm confident that in most situations I can pull a very nice tape with omnis and when everything comes together I feel that an omni tape is going to be superior to a directional pattern tape... no coloring of the sound at all, great soundstaging and tremendous imaging with a jdisc

skalinder makes some good points though....

tms · « **Reply #7 on:** May 24, 2005, 03:09:59 PM »

Quote from: rowjimmytour on May 24, 2005, 01:27:08 PM

This summer I am hittin' up a fest. and I have a 36" tbar and my swivel akg bar and I was wonderin' about others experiences w/ say bluegrass music (YMSB,HBRSB, RE) outdoors and if omnis are okay or if it is better to run DIN. Also a little jazz, funk (JJO, KDTU, Skeric, Grag maha), in my guestimate I would think OMNIS would be the shit. Also I have DIY rat skins to put over my wind screens so wind should not be a big issue. If wind comes in play I understand XY @120 cuts out a lot wind factor. Just lookin' for ideas and input but I realize pratice and trial and error is the best solution. The problem with this is I don't get to tape as much as I would like to.
Peace

Where are you headed?

rowjimmytour · « **Reply #8 on:** May 24, 2005, 03:44:05 PM »

Actually It is not a bluegrass fest its the HSMF and my understandin' is the tapin' section is FOB and there is plenty of space.
Peace

keepongoin · « **Reply #9 on:** May 24, 2005, 04:45:36 PM »

Quote from: rowjimmytour on May 24, 2005, 03:44:05 PM

Actually It is not a bluegrass fest its the HSMF and my understandin' is the tapin' section is FOB and there is plenty of space.
Peace

the HSMF section has been immediately FOB in the past, though the space issue - you want to get there early for the DFC space, but if you don't feel you need to be DFC,, there is a bunch of space.

rowjimmytour · « **Reply #10 on:** May 25, 2005, 01:24:40 PM »

How about the Vaudeville Stage does it have a tapers section??? And is the whole area under a tent or just the performers?
Peace

Brian · « **Reply #11 on:** May 25, 2005, 01:43:08 PM »

Quote from: Tim on May 24, 2005, 03:00:14 PM

Quote from: wbrisette on May 24, 2005, 02:24:41 PM
Quote from: Tim on May 24, 2005, 02:16:19 PM
Omni's would most definitely be the proverbial shit

fob split omni's are great

also try and build a jecklin disc

omni's are less suceptible to wind noise too... just another bonus for omni's

Be very careful with omnis. Depending on your distance from the source of the sound, you could end up with shit (and not the proverbial kind). I always mix my omnis with a card source. The omni provides the warmth and atmosphere, the cards pickup 80% of the source sound.

Wayne

get in a good spot and you don't need the cards, especially outdoors

location is the most important part of taping and it becomes even more important with omnis

It seems as though a lot of people are almost scared of omni's... I've embraced them, at some point I'll add some directional mics to my arsenal but I'm confident that in most situations I can pull a very nice tape with omnis and when everything comes together I feel that an omni tape is going to be superior to a directional pattern tape... no coloring of the sound at all, great soundstaging and tremendous imaging with a jdisc

skalinder makes some good points though....

agreed.....omnis, as it seems to me, are completely underated in any application of recording in any environment. I LOVE omnis!

creekfreak · « **Reply #12 on:** May 25, 2005, 02:57:06 PM »

I agree...I have yet to make an omni recording I didn't like

wbrisette · « **Reply #13 on:** May 25, 2005, 03:05:51 PM »

Quote from: creekfreak on May 25, 2005, 02:57:06 PM

I agree...I have yet to make an omni recording I didn't like

I think people have mis-interpreted what I meant. If you're recording from the section, chances are you're not going to be happy with your recordings. If you are close to the stage, you'll pull some great recordings with the right setup. I have to be pretty careful with my omni mics though, the QTC-1 mics are very hot, it's not unusual for me to knock them down -20 or 30 dB to prevent them from overdriving the preamp (regardless of what preamp is used).

Wayne

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #14 on:** May 25, 2005, 03:22:27 PM »

Quote from: m0k3 on May 25, 2005, 01:36:41 PM

Does anyone else do this?
The horizontal-stretch back to center for lack of a better name.

Like this? I haven't run the extension horizontally off a stand, yet, but have clamped to ceiling or railings and run the mics striaght up, on an angle, straight out horizontally, etc. The stand in the pic, though leaning and not taped down, is still pretty stable. A beefier Bogen stand would lean less. Even so, mics are still about 7+ ft high.

Brian · « **Reply #15 on:** May 25, 2005, 04:22:05 PM »

Quote from: wbrisette on May 25, 2005, 03:05:51 PM

Quote from: creekfreak on May 25, 2005, 02:57:06 PM
I agree...I have yet to make an omni recording I didn't like

I think people have mis-interpreted what I meant. If you're recording from the section, chances are you're not going to be happy with your recordings. If you are close to the stage, you'll pull some great recordings with the right setup. I have to be pretty careful with my omni mics though, the QTC-1 mics are very hot, it's not unusual for me to knock them down -20 or 30 dB to prevent them from overdriving the preamp (regardless of what preamp is used).

Wayne

thanks for the clarification! I had no idea that the QTC-1 put out that hot of a signal. craziness.

tms · « **Reply #16 on:** June 10, 2005, 09:06:13 AM »

Quote from: wbrisette on May 24, 2005, 02:24:41 PM

Quote from: Tim on May 24, 2005, 02:16:19 PM
Omni's would most definitely be the proverbial shit

fob split omni's are great

also try and build a jecklin disc

omni's are less suceptible to wind noise too... just another bonus for omni's

Be very careful with omnis. Depending on your distance from the source of the sound, you could end up with shit (and not the proverbial kind). I always mix my omnis with a card source. The omni provides the warmth and atmosphere, the cards pickup 80% of the source sound.

Wayne

What kind of configuration do you run? With 2 cards and 1 omni?

wbrisette · « **Reply #17 on:** June 10, 2005, 09:36:42 AM »

Quote from: tms on June 10, 2005, 09:06:13 AM

What kind of configuration do you run? With 2 cards and 1 omni?

I'll either run: 2 cards (ORTF or something close to that spacing-wise) and 2 omnis (spread 1 metre), or 2 cards (ORTF or something close) with 1 omni in the center.

Then there are the other multi-mic sources I've done in the past where I'll clamp the omnis on mic stands onstage and use the cards at the lip edge. Or the 6 channels I'll run with 2 channels from the board.

For me it depends on the band, style of music, and how much access I have to various things.

Wayne

spyder9 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 10, 2005, 10:17:01 AM »

I'm glad someone started a thread regarding omnis. I may be taping from the front row for the Allman Bros this summer. I'm thinking of going with the Subcards (DIN), instead of Omnis on my 414s. What do you guys think? Too close?

hzgone · « **Reply #19 on:** June 10, 2005, 06:34:05 PM »

Quote from: rowjimmytour on May 24, 2005, 03:44:05 PM

Actually It is not a bluegrass fest its the HSMF and my understandin' is the tapin' section is FOB and there is plenty of space.
Peace

Omni's will be hard to run at HSMF unless you have a couple people for the main stage. We did it last year but there were 2 people on each stand and they were split pretty wide. As far as the other stages go there really is not a section and you would want to get there with plenty of time to setup FOB. Also some of the stages are covered and some are open. This was the case last year. I wish i was going again i would help you out with the split omni's. +T man have fun

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #20 on:** June 10, 2005, 11:49:32 PM »

Quote from: spyder9 on June 10, 2005, 10:17:01 AM

I'm glad someone started a thread regarding omnis. I may be taping from the front row for the Allman Bros this summer. I'm thinking of going with the Subcards (DIN), instead of Omnis on my 414s. What do you guys think? Too close?

allmanns have vocals, id think that would be WAY too close, try to trade your tix for like 20th row or something so you have some vocal mix

Busman Audio · « **Reply #21 on:** June 11, 2005, 01:56:22 AM »

The section at HSMF is great you will pull awsome tapes at the main stage. The other stages can be good but the main is excellent. Split omnis will work at the main but like hzgone said make sure you meet some fellow tapers to help watch the stands and stake the stands into the ground. I also wish I was going this year, it will be the first I have missed since 97 and I hate to miss it. You have freedom to run pretty far fob without any hassle from the crew. Just watch out for stand monsters coming for your equipment. Have a great time ( I know you will) and pull some great recordings.
I am going to the String Summit instead this year and will be using split omnis as musch as I can.

John R · « **Reply #22 on:** June 11, 2005, 10:15:12 AM »

chattiness, like brian mentioned, is most definitely a major issue, (the major issue at telluride). the 2 channel achive is run through b&k 4006's split 20''. omni's will definitely cancel most wind. fyi, the tbf pa is louder and better than most, and tuned within an inch of it's life. ymmv.

i run cards din/nutter there.

Tim · « **Reply #23 on:** June 11, 2005, 01:23:08 PM »

you run cards everywhere

spyder9 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 11, 2005, 02:08:39 PM »

Quote from: Bean on June 10, 2005, 11:49:32 PM

Quote from: spyder9 on June 10, 2005, 10:17:01 AM
I'm glad someone started a thread regarding omnis. I may be taping from the front row for the Allman Bros this summer. I'm thinking of going with the Subcards (DIN), instead of Omnis on my 414s. What do you guys think? Too close?

allmanns have vocals, id think that would be WAY too close, try to trade your tix for like 20th row or something so you have some vocal mix

T+ Bean. I have 19th row, on the side. I was going to upgrade to 1st row. Thanks!