Author Topic: Neumann kmi 84 vs km84i (Read 12027 times)

twoodruff · « **on:** June 27, 2005, 10:23:36 AM »

anyone know what if any is the difference

Rick · « **Reply #1 on:** June 27, 2005, 01:35:31 PM »

Quote from: mfrench on June 27, 2005, 11:00:17 AM

~~single vs. set,..... if my memory serves me well? its been a long while.~~

edit:
I'm just guessing, really.
A friend used to leave his km84's out here when the dead weren't touring, and I used them quite a bit for local acts. I labeled everything as km84's. I got copies of Jeffs recordings where he labeled them as km84i, and I thought I recall him mentioning that as a set designation?

take it for what its worth,....

I thought the 84i has xlr while the 84 has tuchel connectors.

Joe w. · « **Reply #2 on:** June 27, 2005, 01:48:03 PM »

the i is just the older model as i understand it. neumann does make a 84, but i can't find it for sale anywhere. Fixed card pattern 84, although the seam at the top makes it look as if the cap could come of, but the card pattern on the body suggests no.

Joe w. · « **Reply #3 on:** June 27, 2005, 01:54:42 PM »

the i is a fixed cap (card) mic. I am 100% sure of that.

twoodruff · « **Reply #4 on:** June 27, 2005, 02:05:32 PM »

ok is there a difference in the two? (using below links)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41466&item=7331917966&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41466&item=7332004989&rd=1

twoodruff · « **Reply #5 on:** June 27, 2005, 03:12:53 PM »

Quote from: Sixto Lezcano on June 27, 2005, 02:29:53 PM

so which one is this?

wboswell · « **Reply #6 on:** June 27, 2005, 03:33:47 PM »

Quote from: Trey Woodruff on June 27, 2005, 03:12:53 PM

Quote from: Sixto Lezcano on June 27, 2005, 02:29:53 PM

so which one is this?

I'm not the brightest guy around but I'm not from MS either...

it appears that since the capsule on the above mic is off, its most likely interchangeable. Sexto's comments above seem to indicate that the "i" stands for interchangeable, so I'm guessing the pic is for the km84i.

twoodruff · « **Reply #7 on:** June 27, 2005, 03:43:59 PM »

Quote from: wboswell on June 27, 2005, 03:33:47 PM

Quote from: Trey Woodruff on June 27, 2005, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: Sixto Lezcano on June 27, 2005, 02:29:53 PM

so which one is this?

I'm not the brightest guy around but I'm not from MS either...

it appears that since the capsule on the above mic is off, its most likely interchangeable. Sexto's comments above seem to indicate that the "i" stands for interchangeable, so I'm guessing the pic is for the km84i.

evidently you can't read the fucking thread either jackass. I am asking the difference between the kmi 84 and the km84i, there is an "i" in both. We have established that the "i" indicates interchangeable, whereas no "i" is fixed. so what about the placement of the "i", that's what I want to know

fozzy · « **Reply #8 on:** June 27, 2005, 04:21:12 PM »

Not much help but a correction.

From some posts over @ neumann archive.
"The "i" refers to the "international" version which has a switchcraft (cannon) connector."

"First, virtually all US imports, except very early ones and the odd 'gray' import here and there, have XLR 3-pin connectors. That's all the 'i' suffix indicates. ('i' for: international, i.e. export)"

I see refernces to both w/o any correction, I bet they are the same mics where the serial number may reference one thing and the packagaing/lable may represent the other, Just a guess.

wboswell · « **Reply #9 on:** June 27, 2005, 04:51:23 PM »

Quote from: Trey Woodruff on June 27, 2005, 03:43:59 PM

evidently you can't read the fucking thread either jackass. I am asking the difference between the kmi 84 and the km84i, there is an "i" in both. We have established that the "i" indicates interchangeable, whereas no "i" is fixed. so what about the placement of the "i", that's what I want to know

seems that no one else read it right either

the placement of the "i" is a matter of semantics... I've seen it placed both places but the correct description is km 84i. At least that's the best I can tell.

twoodruff · « **Reply #10 on:** June 27, 2005, 04:55:47 PM »

sweet a picture

I have my answer

wboswell · « **Reply #11 on:** June 27, 2005, 04:58:40 PM »

http://www.neumann.com/infopool/history/produkte.php?ProdID=km84

Download the old manual and it says point blank that the capsules are interchangeable

Nick Graham · « **Reply #12 on:** June 27, 2005, 05:17:25 PM »

As we've established,the actual name of the mic is KM 84i, with the caps being interchangeable.

FWIW though, I have seen some KM184s listed as KMi84, so that may be a bit of the problem.

wboswell · « **Reply #13 on:** June 27, 2005, 06:17:14 PM »

Its misleading as hell. Check out the pic in this auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41466&item=7330899393&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

It says KMi on the body and 84 on the capsule, but Neumann calls them KM84i.

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #14 on:** June 27, 2005, 06:43:47 PM »

Quote from: Nick Graham on June 27, 2005, 05:17:25 PM

FWIW though, I have seen some KM184s listed as KMi84, so that may be a bit of the problem.

That is a problem. They are not the same mic. I have limited exposure to the KM84i but the tapes I have heard sounded more silky than the KM184s - sort of like the difference between the KM184s and the KM140s if I recall correctly.

That photo with the capsule removed looks just like the mounting style (that long pin) of the capsule of the 184s. I don't think that the KM84i is designed to be a swappable capsule in the way that KM100s are.

dmonterisi · « **Reply #15 on:** June 27, 2005, 06:46:34 PM »

i don't believe that the "i" means interchangeable as my u89i's did not have interchangeable capsules -- the polar pattern was selectable. now, i guess it's possible that the i on this particular model means interchangeable, but i would think a manufacturer would be consistent in its product designations. and if you go through many of the microphone descriptions on the neumannusa.com site, the mic is listed as an "i" microphone than described in the narrative without reference to the "i".

my guess would be that it has something to do with which market it is destined for.

John R · « **Reply #16 on:** June 27, 2005, 06:49:33 PM »

edit: i need to rescind my statement regarding interchangeable

Quote from: dmonterisi on June 27, 2005, 06:54:00 PM

how does that blurb mean that the capsules are interchangeable by the "i" designation and how do you account for the U89i??

in the same document i pulled that from there are other 'i' designations where the caps are fixed. i will attempt to find out the answer from neumann and report back.

jr

dmonterisi · « **Reply #17 on:** June 27, 2005, 06:54:00 PM »

how does that blurb mean that the capsules are interchangeable by the "i" designation and how do you account for the U89i??

Simp-Dawg · « **Reply #18 on:** June 27, 2005, 06:57:10 PM »

i = incomprehensible thread

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #19 on:** June 27, 2005, 07:04:24 PM »

John I read that but again ~~I do not think~~ I'm not convinced that they mean interchangable in the same way that the KM100 system is an interchangable capsule system. I think that blurb is just saying that the capsule from one mic will work with the body of another mic in the series. If you can find in the literature where they offered for sale the capsules as a discrete part number, then I'd believe that interchangable in this context is the same as that for the KM100+AKxx series.

BTW, what do you think about the difference between the KM84i and KM184?

BC · « **Reply #20 on:** June 27, 2005, 07:12:57 PM »

Quote from: Lil' Kim Jong-Il on June 27, 2005, 07:04:24 PM

BTW, what do you think about the difference between the KM84i and KM184?

KM84i looks like it has a flatter response:

184 has a broad peak beginning at 6KHz, and peaking ~+3dB @ 9KHz. I would think the 184 would sound brighter/airier in the high end.

http://www.vintageloop.com/KM83,84,85%20respcurve.jpeg

http://www.vintageloop.com/neumannKM184response.jpeg

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #21 on:** June 27, 2005, 07:20:58 PM »

i bet the i stands for 'international' meaning it was meant for the US market

dmonterisi · « **Reply #22 on:** June 27, 2005, 07:22:19 PM »

Quote from: Bean on June 27, 2005, 07:20:58 PM

i bet the i stands for 'international' meaning it was meant for the US market

this is my guess as well...i bet there are different warranty implications and minimum advertised pricing implications for "i" microphones.

John R · « **Reply #23 on:** June 27, 2005, 07:43:48 PM »

i changed my post above. i'll attempt to find out from neumann.

twoodruff · « **Reply #24 on:** June 28, 2005, 11:00:09 AM »

exert taken from neumann forum:

Since there were three types of capsule (KK 83 omni, KK 84 standard cardioid and KK 85 speech cardioid), all of which could be used interchangeably on the same amplifier type, in practice it became fairly common for amplifiers to have capsules on them which were different from the model which would be implied by the amplifier's own markings. For example a microphone whose amplifier (body) was marked "KM 83" could very well have a cardioid capsule put on it, such that it would really be a KM 84 until/unless someone were to put a KK 83 capsule back onto it.

For this reason, in the later years of production, Neumann stopped inscribing "KM 84" etc. on the bodies, and instead wrote just "KM" or "KMi". You always have to look at the capsule in order to know exactly which microphone you have."

muj · « **Reply #25 on:** June 28, 2005, 11:16:35 AM »

i= import

ghellquist · « **Reply #26 on:** June 28, 2005, 06:43:42 PM »

i = international, ie they have an XLR connector. (please go to www.neumann.com, select forum and check the official answer there)

KM84i - a classic mic loved by people who are old enough to remember them from their youth

KM184 - a totall different mic. The same people that love the KM84 (with or without the i) seems to hate this mic.

They share the same capsule but has completely different electronics.

Me? My box has a pair of KM184. Not bad if you ask me, but not the best for every source.

Gunnar

dmonterisi · « **Reply #27 on:** June 28, 2005, 07:48:05 PM »

i couldn't find the answer in the forum on the neumann page, could you cut and paste the text you refer to? so international models have xlr connectors, what are on the german/EU models?

johnw · « **Reply #28 on:** June 29, 2005, 05:36:02 AM »

Look at the picture at the top of page 2. The very last paragraph details the differences between the 84 and the 84i with the former having a DIN 41524 connecter instead of xlr.

John R · « **Reply #29 on:** June 29, 2005, 07:47:31 AM »

as referenced in the above post, a response from neumann.

Dear Mr. Rosenberg,

the meaning of the "i" is very simple: "i" = "international" =
"XLR-connector".

That was at a time when in Germany and large parts of Europe the DIN or
Tuchel connectors were more in use. With mics developed after 1985 approx.
, the "i" designation was dropped.

If you'd like to copy this message to the "taperssection" discussion for
clarification, feel free to do so.

Best regards,
Martin Schneider
Neumann Mic. Development