Topic: Need some good (stealth) mics

[Brennan]

...but I don't have all that much to spend

You guys are amazingly knowledgeable at this kind of stuff, as I'm sure I will be soon as well

I was taking a look at these, but a good bunch have something against CS. I'm also thinking of maybe something from Chris but I'm not all to sure what to pick, to be truthful.

It's gotta be small mainly. I'm still getting the hang of stealthing (still trying to figure out how you get away with open taping, if someone can shed some light on that ) ...but yea, small, for stealthing

Gimme some suggestions guys!

[loul69]

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Core-Sound-Binaural-Microphone-Set_W0QQitemZ130088266688QQihZ003QQcategoryZ29950QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem
Look at this....this must be interesting but....if i were you, i won t buy these mics. Prefer the Audio technica caps from sound pro(CMC2 or 4 for example). It depends on your budget...

[stevetoney]

...but I don't have all that much to spend

You guys are amazingly knowledgeable at this kind of stuff, as I'm sure I will be soon as well

I was taking a look at these, but a good bunch have something against CS. I'm also thinking of maybe something from Chris but I'm not all to sure what to pick, to be truthful.

It's gotta be small mainly. I'm still getting the hang of stealthing (still trying to figure out how you get away with open taping, if someone can shed some light on that ) ...but yea, small, for stealthing

Gimme some suggestions guys!

I've owned the both the Core Sound mics in the above ebay ad and the AT-853 based mics that are sold through Sound Professionals (SP-CMC4).  I currently own the 853s and they've been part of my arsenal for the past 5 years and they're going to stay because I just plain like them.  While the core sounds are nice and they do the job, I think that the AT-853 mics are are far nicer sounding and worth the extra money.  The bass from the 853s is so much more round and full and realistic sounding.  The overall sound is much more pleasing to the ear.  In fact, I believe that for around $200, the 853s just represent a wonderful value that pound-for-pound or dollar-for-dollar is hard to beat.  To me, the CSBs are great stealth mics and you can't understate the role Core Sound has played in bringing small stealthy sound to the masses, but the CSBs are too 'toy' sounding for my taste.  Tinny, cold and bass just doesn't come through.

The pricipal negative about the 853s is their propensity to overload at relatively lower sound pressure levels than comparable mics.  This is the subject of many discussions on this board and can be referenced by doing a search on TS.com...there are fixes available through mods to the mic, or through upgrading your initial purchase investment to Sound Pros. 

The bottom line though is that for most club shows, I have no problem pulling nice sounding shows (with no overloading) with the cheap 9V battery box that Sound Professionals sells (make sure to get it with bass roll off though) as the companion product.  The situations that pose a problem are the ear-bleed shows or a normal show when you stand too close to the stacks.

Having said this, I cannot address the Church products because I have not tried them.  I only can speak about the two products that I have tried and IMHO, I'd hands down spend $200 on the 853s before I'd spend $80 on the CSB.

BTW, either of these mics are imminently stealthable.  The CSBs are virtually invisible and even when detected, it's hard to believe that they are microphones.  The 853s are quite obviously mics when you look at them, but they are very stealth since they are only about 3/8 inch in diameter.  Incidently, while there's no data, I'm pretty sure in saying that the 853s are amongst the most popular stealth mics on this board, even amongst the experienced tapers, so that's saying something.

[MPB]

Check out Giant Squid Audio

http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/

Great value & quality IMO. I have the Powered Stereo Cards & Omnis.

[Keyser Soze]

OT: cool pic of Colin.

[Kindguy]

...but I don't have all that much to spend

I'm also thinking of maybe something from Chris but I'm not all to sure what to pick, to be truthful.

Gimme some suggestions guys!

Chris builds a good product. I just picked up a pair of cards & the 9100 preamp.

Not a lot of selection from Chris. So it shouldn't be to hard. He sells 2 pre's. Cards & maybe Omni's? His lower end pre & Card's are like 169.00 not bad IMO. But I sprung for the better pre, Pretty sure the setup cost me Around $268.00

I'd stay away from core sound....sorry Len. Pick up something from Chris. Or some AT853's mics from sound professionals.

[Brennan]

You guys are so helpful!

I'm looking over some stuff now, can anyone else vouch for Giant-Squids?

AT853's are pretty expensive it looks like...hmm..at ~$214/mic might be a bit harder to manage lol.. What are SP's equivalent? There's a bunch of mics there

[kmm]

the sp-cmc-4u is the sound pro's equivalent to the at853.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U

(edited to add link)

[Brennan]

ah cool, thanks

Yea, I couldn't find the at's on sound professionals

[tfs8271]

My evolution that took about 6 months.......you will do the same.

Cores you have the link to>AKG ??>Neumann km140s

[Brennan]

My evolution that took about 6 months.......you will do the same.

Cores you have the link to>AKG ??>Neumann km140s

hahaha!! yea, it's gonna be fun enough trying to convince my mom that 'Yes, in fact I do need yet another $200 or so in equipment before I can get a listenable recording'

Told her ~$150 today (looking @ Chris' pre+mics package at the moment). When she gasped at the price I reassured her by telling her the price of some of the other mics :p

Particularly, the ones you mentioned

[grider]

the Core Sounds sound, well, cheap and tinny, I'd strongly suggest something else and better, grab a couple of used single DPA 4061/4060 off ebay and never look back

[Brennan]

Maybe I'm searching wrong, but I can't find them on ebay...?

[stevetoney]

the Core Sounds sound, well, cheap and tinny, I'd strongly suggest something else and better, grab a couple of used single DPA 4061/4060 off ebay and never look back

Let's be realistic.  I mentioned in an earlier post what I thought about the Core Sounds versus the AT853s.  For the money, Core Sound mics are a nice entry level product if that's what you have the money to spend on.  I think you saw a nice price for some of these on ebay.  You'll pull some reasonable recordings, but they won't have a lot of bass.  Part of the point of all this is, from the experience of those of us that have been down this road, they'll probably leave you wanting for more.  There is a liklihood that once you've grabbed half dozen recordings or so, you'll dowload some shows from others or off of archive and wish that you had a little warmer sounding setup.  That's when you'll start looking for a job or otherwise dreaming up ways to come up with the cash (which usually includes selling the mics you just bought only a few short months ago) to fund the purchase.  It's just been a logical progression for so many of us, that we are all making these recommendations in order to maybe save you from going down that same path.  Now, having said all of this...can you be happy with the recordings you get from Core Sounds...SURE!  I recorded for a couple years with them. 

[powermonkey]

Personally, I've just ordered a pair of Church-Audio cardoid mics to go with an Edirol R-09. I was dithering a bit about mics, or at least I was until I found a recording of a guy called Tommy Emmanuel that used CA mics and preamp, and the sound quality blew me away (almost as much as Mr Emmanuel's playing). If I can get audience recordings half as clear and warm as that torrent (look here: http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34287&highlight=tommy+emmanuel ) I'll be a very happy man indeed.

As for more general advice - the little I'm qualified to give, anyway - it's like all these things, if you buy the cheapest thing you can find, then you'll inevitably be upgrading sooner rather than later. From the sound of recordings I've heard using CA mics, they'll keep me going for a good while.

Hope that helps in some small way.

[grider]

Maybe I'm searching wrong, but I can't find them on ebay...?

just do a general search for "DPA" and you will find many singles, usually, apparently they used widely but briefly on Broadway for plays and such, when the plays wrap up their tours the mics and such get auctioned off, and the process begins anew, one upside is that they are often beige colored and very stealthy

[Brennan]

So you'd recommend the beige ones actually? I was kinda thinking the opposite, but I'll take any suggestions ya got!

[poorlyconditioned]

Maybe I'm searching wrong, but I can't find them on ebay...?

just do a general search for "DPA" and you will find many singles, usually, apparently they used widely but briefly on Broadway for plays and such, when the plays wrap up their tours the mics and such get auctioned off, and the process begins anew, one upside is that they are often beige colored and very stealthy

Be careful of these.  They are *likely* worn out.  I mean, what sound guy would get rid of these if they still worked?  And at the prices they go for, it just seems like too much money to spend on a questionable item.

  Richard

[Brennan]

Good point I'll watch for that, but most likely I'll be starting out with a bundle from Chris

[Church-Audio]

Maybe I'm searching wrong, but I can't find them on ebay...?

just do a general search for "DPA" and you will find many singles, usually, apparently they used widely but briefly on Broadway for plays and such, when the plays wrap up their tours the mics and such get auctioned off, and the process begins anew, one upside is that they are often beige colored and very stealthy

Be careful of these.  They are *likely* worn out.  I mean, what sound guy would get rid of these if they still worked?  And at the prices they go for, it just seems like too much money to spend on a questionable item.

  Richard

I am not trying to sell anything here first and formost.

I agree with Richard. As a sound man if I ran a theater company I would never in a million years get rid of a DPA microphone unless I thought something was wrong with it.

The problem is this many people buy these used DPA mics. They take them out to record a show and even a broken down DPA mic still sounds good to one degree or another. But when you compare it to a new DPA the choice becomes obvious. That is a luxury most people that buy used DPA mics cant afford, because they dont usually have a pristine mic to compare it against.

In the theater there is always a turn around of microphones I did 8 weeks last summer mixing Jesus Christ Super Star and Kiss me Kate. We used 25 Lav mics for that show. In 8 weeks 10 mics went down. So things change all the time.

One thing is for sure I am not going to talk to the owner of the theater company and ask him to replace a bad mic $300-$700 unless its really bad because doing so would be unprofessional.

Sometimes you get lucky and the DPA mics you get used are ok, but sometimes you dont, and the funny thing is until you have a nice new pair to compare them too you might not even notice.

Its easy to say one mic is better then the other. If you want DPA get them they are the best out there better then any mic I make.. If you really want them get them new, save up your cash.. Don't get my mics if you really want to go that way.

I think there is always a fine line between what is the best and what you can afford to spend. You have to in the end do what is right for you. A lot of the advice here is very good, But in the end its your $$$.

[Brennan]

Hey Chris, thanks for your take on it...not that I don't appreciate everyone else's just as much!

I think for the time being I'll just go with your bundle (ST-9000 pre + card mics). I want to start off with something good. I've already lost a few recordings I really wish had come out, simply due to not having the right gear.

My parents are going to a Zombies show tomorrow night, and there's no way I could have the mics and preamp from you in that time (so we probably won't get a good recording)...then there's the issue of where I'm going to come up with $160

[Church-Audio]

Hey Chris, thanks for your take on it...not that I don't appreciate everyone else's just as much!

I think for the time being I'll just go with your bundle (ST-9000 pre + card mics). I want to start off with something good. I've already lost a few recordings I really wish had come out, simply due to not having the right gear.

My parents are going to a Zombies show tomorrow night, and there's no way I could have the mics and preamp from you in that time (so we probably won't get a good recording)...then there's the issue of where I'm going to come up with $160

I wish I had parents that went to see Rob Zombie... My parents took me to a Ronny Milsap concert when I was a kid.. Wow talk about fun! I ask them to come to some of the shows I do, I dont think they are into it lol.

[tfs8271]

My parents took me to a Ronny Milsap concert when I was a kid.. Wow talk about fun!

My dad did the same. The only difference was my dad was a country DJ and I got to sit on stage and throw frisbees into the crowd. Helped turn me onto music my whole life.

[Church-Audio]

My parents took me to a Ronny Milsap concert when I was a kid.. Wow talk about fun!

My dad did the same. The only difference was my dad was a country DJ and I got to sit on stage and throw frisbees into the crowd. Helped turn me onto music my whole life.

You know its funny that concert when I was 9 years old did the same thing to me. Even though I was just too cool to be there. I did get hooked on sound and doing shows from that one concert.

[Brennan]

I wish I had parents that went to see Rob Zombie...

THESE Zombies lol :p

I've actually never heard Rob Zombie Guess I should?

I got hooked on concerts when at my first (age 12) Jeff Tweedy [of Wilco] mouthed the words "How old are you?!" when he saw me singing along lol.. That led to him pronouncing to the crowd, "We have a 12-year-old in the audience"

[Church-Audio]

I wish I had parents that went to see Rob Zombie...

THESE Zombies lol :p

I've actually never heard Rob Zombie Guess I should?

I got hooked on concerts when at my first (age 12) Jeff Tweedy [of Wilco] mouthed the words "How old are you?!" when he saw me singing along lol.. That led to him pronouncing to the crowd, "We have a 12-year-old in the audience"

LOL ok I think you should google him and have a good laugh I thought you meant Rob Zombie. Some people call them the Zombies lol

[dorrcoq]

The Zombies played in Vancouver this past week.  They got a great review in the paper, made me sorry I missed it.

[Brennan]

Yea, I like a good amount of THE Zombies stuff I'll take a listen / have a good laugh over Rob since you suggested it Chris

Parents are currently on the freeway heading to the show as we speak (er, type) and I stuck my dad with the R-09 and a mono omni clip mic..so we shall see

[sml42]

If you want DPA get them they are the best out there better then any mic I make.. If you really want them get them new, save up your cash. Don't get my mics if you really want to go that way.

Well I'll be. +t for shooting straight there.

Although I think the schoeps crowd may disagree

[Church-Audio]

If you want DPA get them they are the best out there better then any mic I make.. If you really want them get them new, save up your cash. Don't get my mics if you really want to go that way.

Well I'll be. +t for shooting straight there.

Although I think the schoeps crowd may disagree

DPA - BRUEL KJEAR = Best mics in the world I like Schoeps but B&K is very hard to beat. When a company is looking for the most accurate mic in the world they choose DPA When you want flavor you choose Schoeps or Neumann. That's my two cents.

[guysonic]

If you want DPA get them they are the best out there better then any mic I make.. If you really want them get them new, save up your cash. Don't get my mics if you really want to go that way.

Well I'll be. +t for shooting straight there.

Although I think the schoeps crowd may disagree

DPA - BRUEL KJEAR = Best mics in the world I like Schoeps but B&K is very hard to beat. When a company is looking for the most accurate mic in the world they choose DPA When you want flavor you choose Schoeps or Neumann. That's my two cents.

Most accurate mics in my opinion are very small <.25 inch capsule true pressure omni like made by Earthworks and my own DSM with ruler flat frequency response from <10 cycles to beyond 40,000 cycles.  Where accuracy is important type and size matters!

See www.sonicstudios.com/multitrk.htm

[poorlyconditioned]

If you want DPA get them they are the best out there better then any mic I make.. If you really want them get them new, save up your cash. Don't get my mics if you really want to go that way.

Well I'll be. +t for shooting straight there.

Although I think the schoeps crowd may disagree

DPA - BRUEL KJEAR = Best mics in the world I like Schoeps but B&K is very hard to beat. When a company is looking for the most accurate mic in the world they choose DPA When you want flavor you choose Schoeps or Neumann. That's my two cents.

Most accurate mics in my opinion are very small <.25 inch capsule true pressure omni like made by Earthworks and my own DSM with ruler flat frequency response from <10 cycles to beyond 40,000 cycles.  Where accuracy is important type and size matters!

See www.sonicstudios.com/multitrk.htm

It is not only the capsule size, but the diaphragm material as well.  DPA and most other high end mics have a very thin diaphragm, and it is gold vapourized mylar.

That said, I recently revisited a WM61a recording I made way back and it sounded much more "transparent" than I thought it would.  More transparent than either AT853 or AKG CK91 in fact.  I could hear some problems in it (maybe resonances, I don't know), but it was very transparent.  So much so that I'm going to look for some high end omnis now...

What do I mean "transparent".  I noticed it most when I could hear the background noises really clearly, especially outdoor/festival recordings.

Are any of you guys out there "reskinning" mics?  I thought I heard of some guy (Steve Sank?) doing that with Naks (Primo caps) a while back.

  Richard

[Brennan]

The Zombies played in Vancouver this past week.  They got a great review in the paper, made me sorry I missed it.

LOL That's too funny!! Colin mentions it being -28° in Canada, and how happy he is to be in Los Angeles on my recording I could send you a copy if you'd like, didn't come out half bad Got the whole Ian Hunter set as well, it's GREAT!

@everyone else-I'm lovin these replies! Learning more and more as the days progress

[dorrcoq]

The Zombies played in Vancouver this past week.  They got a great review in the paper, made me sorry I missed it.

LOL That's too funny!! Colin mentions it being -28° in Canada, and how happy he is to be in Los Angeles on my recording I could send you a copy if you'd like, didn't come out half bad Got the whole Ian Hunter set as well, it's GREAT!

@everyone else-I'm lovin these replies! Learning more and more as the days progress

Well, I'm not sure where in Canada they were, but it has NEVER been -28 in Vancouver.  In fact it has never officially been below 0 F in Vancouver.  I think the record low is 3 degrees F.

Thanks for the offer, but I don't really want a copy.  Ian Hunter sounds good, though - any new material?

[Jacob]

Noone has mentioned Microphone Madness mics yet. Not good?

[Javier Cinakowski]

Mic Madness mics are good, the Sennheiser mke2  is the best electret omni for the price IMO.  DPA and Sanken might sound better, but not for the $250 you spend for a pair of the mic madness mke2's.

The mke40's HLSC'1s are also very nice.  They sound nicer to my ears than the AT853(c), but certainly lack in the bass department.  They also handle a great deal of SPL with normal plug-in-power, making them a super option for stealth.  Paired with a Hi-MD, you will be blown away...

As far as the accuracy argument goes, sure smaller diaphragm in theory are more accurate, but comparing SonicStudio's mics to DPA ?       I have used several varieties of Panasonic electrets, and indeed they can sound very natural/transparent. I even have a set of the old Radio Shack electrets that smoke my AT853's in the transparency department.

If I had more money than I knew what to do with, I would go with DPA if I was looking for a recording that sounded exactly like the source....

This is just my $.02, I am consumer/hobbyist, not a professional like some of you....

[grider]

DPA - BRUEL KJEAR = Best mics in the world I like Schoeps but B&K is very hard to beat. When a company is looking for the most accurate mic in the world they choose DPA When you want flavor you choose Schoeps or Neumann. That's my two cents.

[Humbug]

I personally don't want accuracy - I want the recording to sound better than it did to my ears at the time.

A lot of the time, it does.

[Jacob]

The mke40's HLSC'1s are also very nice.  They sound nicer to my ears than the AT853(c), but certainly lack in the bass department.  They also handle a great deal of SPL with normal plug-in-power, making them a super option for stealth.  Paired with a Hi-MD, you will be blown away...

Using HLSC'1s with either a Hi-MD or R-09, is it still recommended to use a bbox or using plug-in-power would still work? When going line-in with a bbox I assume you would need to boost the rec. levels up to 25/27 of 30?

[Javier Cinakowski]

The HLSCs works just fine without a battery box with a Hi-MD, I have no idea about a R-09.  This was a loud concert (not heavy metal loud, but close)

http://www.treespine.com/rig/rig_files/lotus.mp3

Source: Sennheiser MKE40mm-hlsc1's >
Sony MZ-RH910 (PCM,manual rec,low sen)
Lineage: MZ-RH910(master) > USB(SonicStage) > CD Wave(tracking) > mp3(192kbps)
Notes: Mics on Hat FOB/DFC

[dorrcoq]

Tim - how do you REALLY feel about guysonic?

[guysonic]

If you want DPA get them they are the best out there better then any mic I make.. If you really want them get them new, save up your cash. Don't get my mics if you really want to go that way.

Well I'll be. +t for shooting straight there.

Although I think the schoeps crowd may disagree

DPA - BRUEL KJEAR = Best mics in the world I like Schoeps but B&K is very hard to beat. When a company is looking for the most accurate mic in the world they choose DPA When you want flavor you choose Schoeps or Neumann. That's my two cents.

Most accurate mics in my opinion are very small <.25 inch capsule true pressure omni like made by Earthworks and my own DSM with ruler flat frequency response from <10 cycles to beyond 40,000 cycles.  Where accuracy is important type and size matters!

See www.sonicstudios.com/multitrk.htm

It is not only the capsule size, but the diaphragm material as well.  DPA and most other high end mics have a very thin diaphragm, and it is gold vapourized mylar.

That said, I recently revisited a WM61a recording I made way back and it sounded much more "transparent" than I thought it would.  More transparent than either AT853 or AKG CK91 in fact.  I could hear some problems in it (maybe resonances, I don't know), but it was very transparent.  So much so that I'm going to look for some high end omnis now...

What do I mean "transparent".  I noticed it most when I could hear the background noises really clearly, especially outdoor/festival recordings.

Are any of you guys out there "reskinning" mics?  I thought I heard of some guy (Steve Sank?) doing that with Naks (Primo caps) a while back.

  Richard

DSM-1S series is modified WM61, and 6S series is based on no longer made and special ordered WM60 capsules.  Made a few DSM-9s models using DPA4062 that I liked, but as discussed elsewhere, too much trouble to modify more of these.

To be honest, the unmodified WM61/60 and DPA 4060 capsules never sounded very good to my ears.  I've modified all three of these to extend low frequency response and make the mid-to-very high frequencies sound very natural in my opinion.

Most people who use these modified capsule products, and/or hear the recordings agree with the above.

However, it's also very true "you can NOT please everyone!"

[poorlyconditioned]

If you want DPA get them they are the best out there better then any mic I make.. If you really want them get them new, save up your cash. Don't get my mics if you really want to go that way.

Well I'll be. +t for shooting straight there.

Although I think the schoeps crowd may disagree

DPA - BRUEL KJEAR = Best mics in the world I like Schoeps but B&K is very hard to beat. When a company is looking for the most accurate mic in the world they choose DPA When you want flavor you choose Schoeps or Neumann. That's my two cents.

Most accurate mics in my opinion are very small <.25 inch capsule true pressure omni like made by Earthworks and my own DSM with ruler flat frequency response from <10 cycles to beyond 40,000 cycles.  Where accuracy is important type and size matters!

See www.sonicstudios.com/multitrk.htm

It is not only the capsule size, but the diaphragm material as well.  DPA and most other high end mics have a very thin diaphragm, and it is gold vapourized mylar.

That said, I recently revisited a WM61a recording I made way back and it sounded much more "transparent" than I thought it would.  More transparent than either AT853 or AKG CK91 in fact.  I could hear some problems in it (maybe resonances, I don't know), but it was very transparent.  So much so that I'm going to look for some high end omnis now...

What do I mean "transparent".  I noticed it most when I could hear the background noises really clearly, especially outdoor/festival recordings.

Are any of you guys out there "reskinning" mics?  I thought I heard of some guy (Steve Sank?) doing that with Naks (Primo caps) a while back.

  Richard

DSM-1S series is modified WM61, and 6S series is based on no longer made and special ordered WM60 capsules.  Made a few DSM-9s models using DPA4062 that I liked, but as discussed elsewhere, too much trouble to modify more of these.

To be honest, the unmodified WM61/60 and DPA 4060 capsules never sounded very good to my ears.  I've modified all three of these to extend low frequency response and make the mid-to-very high frequencies sound very natural in my opinion.

Most people who use these modified capsule products, and/or hear the recordings agree with the above.

However, it's also very true "you can NOT please everyone!"

Thanks for the tech info.  I agree that the WM61A are very good, and I also noticed a problem with the mid-to-high freqs as well, but have not fixed this (yet).

Just let me comment that I really appreciate the tech info on your website (R09 sensitivity measurements come to mind).

It should be easy to satisfy others by taking any sales pitches to the Retail section.

Thanks...
  Richard

[Jacob]

The HLSCs works just fine without a battery box with a Hi-MD, I have no idea about a R-09.  This was a loud concert (not heavy metal loud, but close)

http://www.treespine.com/rig/rig_files/lotus.mp3

Source: Sennheiser MKE40mm-hlsc1's >
Sony MZ-RH910 (PCM,manual rec,low sen)
Lineage: MZ-RH910(master) > USB(SonicStage) > CD Wave(tracking) > mp3(192kbps)
Notes: Mics on Hat FOB/DFC

Thanks for the sample, sounds really good. Do you by chance remember which level you set on this particular recording? I'm gonna be running the same mic on MZ-NH900 soon.

[Javier Cinakowski]

The HLSCs works just fine without a battery box with a Hi-MD, I have no idea about a R-09.  This was a loud concert (not heavy metal loud, but close)

http://www.treespine.com/rig/rig_files/lotus.mp3

Source: Sennheiser MKE40mm-hlsc1's >
Sony MZ-RH910 (PCM,manual rec,low sen) No idea what level, just set it so the lines don't peakLineage: MZ-RH910(master) > USB(SonicStage) > CD Wave(tracking) > mp3(192kbps)
Notes: Mics on Hat FOB/DFC

Thanks for the sample, sounds really good. Do you by chance remember which level you set on this particular recording? I'm gonna be running the same mic on MZ-NH900 soon.

[Brennan]

Ok, so what you guys are saying is it's a tossup?

If I have $1200 to spend I can grab a couple AT853's. If I have maybe $200 I should go with CA?

[Arni99]

yesterday i used my mz-rh1+bbox+mm-hlsc-2 sennheiser cardioids for taping a small club blues session on line-in.

i used manual level control and pushed the levels up to -2db to 0dB at 28/30 on my manual gain control.
at a big indoor arena 15/30 is a good point to start with using the mz-rh1.


at the same time i taped with my iriver and the sp-cmc-8 cardioids and the result was much worse than the sony mz-rh1+sennheiser combination, which had more bass and generally more power behind...almost sounds like a soundboard recording compared to the rockboxed iriver h140+sp-cmc-8 card+bbox.

the mics where placed 1cm from each other on the left and right side of my jackets collar, so this should be a good comparison.

now i´m a bit confused because actually the iriver was my favourable recording device until yesterday....

could it be that the A/D converter of the sony HI-MD recorders are better than the irivers H120/H140s A/D?

[poorlyconditioned]

yesterday i used my mz-rh1+bbox+mm-hlsc-2 sennheiser cardioids for taping a small club blues session on line-in.

i used manual level control and pushed the levels up to -2db to 0dB at 28/30 on my manual gain control.
at a big indoor arena 15/30 is a good point to start with using the mz-rh1.


at the same time i taped with my iriver and the sp-cmc-8 cardioids and the result was much worse than the sony mz-rh1+sennheiser combination, which had more bass and generally more power behind...almost sounds like a soundboard recording compared to the rockboxed iriver h140+sp-cmc-8 card+bbox.

the mics where placed 1cm from each other on the left and right side of my jackets collar, so this should be a good comparison.

now i´m a bit confused because actually the iriver was my favourable recording device until yesterday....

could it be that the A/D converter of the sony HI-MD recorders are better than the irivers H120/H140s A/D?

My opinion is the ADC in the IRiver/NJB3 is not that great.  OK, but not great.

Furthermore, the Minidisc allows proper analog gain control.  You can use loud (line level) signals or quiet stuff.  I'm quite impressed with the quality of this.  Also, my experience is that the ATRAC compression (HiMD, newer models) is pretty good.  Certainly the limiting factor will be the mics on input.

  Richard

[Jacob]

yesterday i used my mz-rh1+bbox+mm-hlsc-2 sennheiser cardioids for taping a small club blues session on line-in.

i used manual level control and pushed the levels up to -2db to 0dB at 28/30 on my manual gain control.
at a big indoor arena 15/30 is a good point to start with using the mz-rh1.


at the same time i taped with my iriver and the sp-cmc-8 cardioids and the result was much worse than the sony mz-rh1+sennheiser combination, which had more bass and generally more power behind...almost sounds like a soundboard recording compared to the rockboxed iriver h140+sp-cmc-8 card+bbox.

the mics where placed 1cm from each other on the left and right side of my jackets collar, so this should be a good comparison.

now i´m a bit confused because actually the iriver was my favourable recording device until yesterday....

could it be that the A/D converter of the sony HI-MD recorders are better than the irivers H120/H140s A/D?

Now I wonder how A/D converter on HI-MD machines compares to Edirol R-09. I'll be testing HLSC-1 with custom bbox running line in on R-09 this weekend. Can't wait to compare result with OKM-II Rock Studio / HI-MD combo.

[poorlyconditioned]

yesterday i used my mz-rh1+bbox+mm-hlsc-2 sennheiser cardioids for taping a small club blues session on line-in.

i used manual level control and pushed the levels up to -2db to 0dB at 28/30 on my manual gain control.
at a big indoor arena 15/30 is a good point to start with using the mz-rh1.


at the same time i taped with my iriver and the sp-cmc-8 cardioids and the result was much worse than the sony mz-rh1+sennheiser combination, which had more bass and generally more power behind...almost sounds like a soundboard recording compared to the rockboxed iriver h140+sp-cmc-8 card+bbox.

the mics where placed 1cm from each other on the left and right side of my jackets collar, so this should be a good comparison.

now i´m a bit confused because actually the iriver was my favourable recording device until yesterday....

could it be that the A/D converter of the sony HI-MD recorders are better than the irivers H120/H140s A/D?

Now I wonder how A/D converter on HI-MD machines compares to Edirol R-09. I'll be testing HLSC-1 with custom bbox running line in on R-09 this weekend. Can't wait to compare result with OKM-II Rock Studio / HI-MD combo.

This would be a welcome comparison.  My impression is that they are similar, but of course the Edirol R09 is *much* easier to use, both controls and transfering to computer, and of course, it can record uncompressed for long times.  I still would not abandon MD though.  They have less noise for quiet shows/low output mics than the Edirol.  Plus nothing wrong with having an extra recorder around for a backup, or for SBD recordings.

  Richard

[Jacob]

This would be a welcome comparison.  My impression is that they are similar, but of course the Edirol R09 is *much* easier to use, both controls and transfering to computer, and of course, it can record uncompressed for long times.  I still would not abandon MD though.  They have less noise for quiet shows/low output mics than the Edirol.  Plus nothing wrong with having an extra recorder around for a backup, or for SBD recordings.

  Richard

Actually I still keep my old MZ-R30 MD recorder I've had since fall 1997. It works impeccable.