Topic: 2 samples: Church Audio STC-11 cardioid + CA-9100 preamp

[Arni99]

here a recording i did 2 days ago in Austria: (2-wire mic-preamp-configuration)
iriver H140 rockboxed: "AGC safety-clip" set to +10dB
Church Audio-9100 preamp(3.5mm...1/8" mic input) set to 50% gain
STC-11 cardioid mics with 4.7k mod

unedited samples as FLACS:
1st sample: WAV 16bit 44.1kHz=>FLAC
sample 1: http://www.file-upload.net/download-283991/rec_000102.flac.html

2nd sample: WAV 16bit 44.1kHz=>FLAC
http://www.file-upload.net/download-284008/rec_000104.flac.html


post-edit samples:
1st sample:
WAV 16bit 44.1kHz=>boosted high frequencies  with Adobe Audition 2.0.=>sample mp3 256kbit/s
http://www.file-upload.net/download-280171/church_rec_000102_edited.mp3.html

2nd sample of the same show:
WAV 16bit 44.1kHz=>boosted high frequencies  with Adobe Audition 2.0.=>sample mp3 256kbit/s
http://www.file-upload.net/download-283462/church_rec_000104_edited.mp3.html

[Arni99]

STC-11 cardioid mics with 4.7k mod

what is the purpose of this mod?

According to Chris this mod is implemented in ALL his cardioids with the purpose of reducing distortion at 114db to 0.05% at 1K.
You loose about -15dB of signal with the 4.7k mod (-12dB with 3 wire-config).
With the preamp set to 50%-70% of its max. gain you make up the lost 15dB .
I heard recordings whithout the preamp with just a battery box and they sound good too, only difference...they need more normalisation in post.

[dorrcoq]

If it is in ALL his mics, is it really a mod?

[Church-Audio]

If it is in ALL his mics, is it really a mod?

Every single cardioid mic I have ever sold has had the 4.7 k mod in them..

[muj]

sounds great!

[Church-Audio]

STC-11 cardioid mics with 4.7k mod

what is the purpose of this mod?

Before my mod these mics are very much like the AT 853 mics when run two wire they have a distortion of about 10-15% at 114 db at 1k.. After my mod the distortion goes down to .05% at 114db at 1k but the output also goes down to -12db.. I have actually come up with a new version of my 9100 preamp that allows you to "switch" out this mod so when your recording quiet acoustic stuff you get the 12db back and you get an additional 20db from my preamp a net gain increase of 32db this is very much needed for acoustic recording but the Max spl that my mics can handle is reduced.. Then when you go to record loud shows you can activate my 4.7k mod and run my mics in very loud shows with much more Max SPL and much less distortion... The new 9100 is called the CA-4.7 its perfect for situations where you need flexibility and function to allow you to record a variety of situations.. The mics must be terminated with mini XLR connectors or 3.5 mm connectors on each mic.. This preamp also works with DPA 4060 and AT 853 mics that are terminated via a 3.5 mm or mini xlr connector.

Chris

[stantheman1976]

This sample sounds great.  I want to get a pair of these but I have zero spending money right now.  How were these mounted?

[blindman]

Chris, I have been wondering about this... is the 4.7K mod pretty much acting as an attenuator/pad? Or would a pad and your mod be doing two different things electronically to the audio signal? I have seen attenuator descriptions that use a 4.7K resistor between the input and ground... so my question is would it be logical to think that using say the M-Audio 10dB pad w AT853's help to increase their SPL handling? I know the only way to know would be to test it with your epuipment, but I have been wondering about this for a while.

And I am totally bumming now I didn't get a CA-4.7... It would have been nice to have the flexibility to use your high sensitivity omni's for the quiter stuff and still be able to run another set of mics for louder shows. If I had known you probably could have got a cardiod sale out of it

If you are interested in testing a set of 853's with the 10dB pad I would be willing to lend you mine for scientific purposes... again, unless it is moot and they two different things completely.

later,
michael

edit: sorry, yes... Arni99 the sample sounds nice... where were you in the room?

[Church-Audio]

Chris, I have been wondering about this... is the 4.7K mod pretty much acting as an attenuator/pad? Or would a pad and your mod be doing two different things electronically to the audio signal? I have seen attenuator descriptions that use a 4.7K resistor between the input and ground... so my question is would it be logical to think that using say the M-Audio 10dB pad w AT853's help to increase their SPL handling? I know the only way to know would be to test it with your epuipment, but I have been wondering about this for a while.

And I am totally bumming now I didn't get a CA-4.7... It would have been nice to have the flexibility to use your high sensitivity omni's for the quiter stuff and still be able to run another set of mics for louder shows. If I had known you probably could have got a cardiod sale out of it

If you are interested in testing a set of 853's with the 10dB pad I would be willing to lend you mine for scientific purposes... again, unless it is moot and they two different things completely.

later,
michael

edit: sorry, yes... Arni99 the sample sounds nice... where were you in the room?

The reason why you did not get the CA-4.7 is simple it was not yet invented.. When you placed your order. I had a order from a customer to see if I could do that. And I thought about it and found a way to do it and tested it. I am sorry you did not get the 4.7k preamp. I am working on a in line solution for customers that already have my old preamp... So they will not be left out in the cold. The 4.7 k mod is not a pad.. Its more complicated then that. I dont suggest using a resistive pad on a electret mic input because all you will end up doing is reducing the bias voltage the mic gets.

Chris

[blindman]

Chris, I have been wondering about this... is the 4.7K mod pretty much acting as an attenuator/pad? Or would a pad and your mod be doing two different things electronically to the audio signal? I have seen attenuator descriptions that use a 4.7K resistor between the input and ground... so my question is would it be logical to think that using say the M-Audio 10dB pad w AT853's help to increase their SPL handling? I know the only way to know would be to test it with your epuipment, but I have been wondering about this for a while.

And I am totally bumming now I didn't get a CA-4.7... It would have been nice to have the flexibility to use your high sensitivity omni's for the quiter stuff and still be able to run another set of mics for louder shows. If I had known you probably could have got a cardiod sale out of it

If you are interested in testing a set of 853's with the 10dB pad I would be willing to lend you mine for scientific purposes... again, unless it is moot and they two different things completely.

later,
michael

edit: sorry, yes... Arni99 the sample sounds nice... where were you in the room?

The reason why you did not get the CA-4.7 is simple it was not yet invented.. When you placed your order. I had a order from a customer to see if I could do that. And I thought about it and found a way to do it and tested it. I am sorry you did not get the 4.7k preamp. I am working on a in line solution for customers that already have my old preamp... So they will not be left out in the cold. The 4.7 k mod is not a pad.. Its more complicated then that. I dont suggest using a resistive pad on a electret mic input because all you will end up doing is reducing the bias voltage the mic gets.

Chris

No worries about the preamp... I will still be able to use for the original purpose I bought it for... Hope it arrives soon.

Thanks for clearing that up about the pad vs mod... I can solder and have built kits, can sorta read simple circuits but that is about it... so I was curious.

So, the M-Audio 10dB pad is something different because it still passes the voltage through but attenuates the signal... I know it helps to keep the MT from overloading... but I am still curious if it helps the 853's with the THD at the higher SPL's? I am just trying to wrap my head around all this... and it's probably more a rhetorical question that one you can answer... or maybe that is what you meant by a pad is different and it does nothing to help the THD of the 853... and what is the topic of this thread anyway??

ok, sorry to go off.

[Arni99]

edit: sorry, yes... Arni99 the sample sounds nice... where were you in the room?

it was an outdoor open air show.
I was standing close to the right PA(10 meters...30ft distance).

[evilchris]

Man ... this makes me even more excited to get my paws on my package from Chris.

Thanks for sharing. 

[Nixoo]

Excellent sample! I can't wait for my first show with this new gear Hope mine turns out as just as good!

[roggae]

I might pick my up one of these Church preamps.  Anyone compare the Church to the SP-Preamp?

[Arni99]

i just added a 2nd sample to my first post of this thread.
enjoy
arni

[muj]

could you post without eq boost?

[Arni99]

could you post without eq boost?

i boosted high frequencies and nothing else.

[muj]

  lol

[TNJazz]

 

It's a useless sample if you've altered it with EQ.

If people want to know what the mics sound like - they need to know what they sound like BEFORE you mess with the EQ.  Otherwise, what's the point?

[nardo]

I'd also like to hear this without any EQ if it's not causing too much trouble.

[Arni99]

ok  , check the unedited FLAC files in my 1st post of this thread.
 

[momule]

Sounds very nice for a stealth tape.  I have been thinking about picking up a stealth rig as I have the Jb3 just laying around now with the R-4

Here is a sample tuned a bit better IMO.  A little bit of "presence" was added to bring the vocals up in the mix to help level things out a bit more. 

[Arni99]

Sounds very nice for a stealth tape.  I have been thinking about picking up a stealth rig as I have the Jb3 just laying around now with the R-4

Here is a sample tuned a bit better IMO.  A little bit of "presence" was added to bring the vocals up in the mix to help level things out a bit more. 

post the raw unedited sample or TNJazz will show you the way  .
just kidding
arni

[stantheman1976]

These mics sound great and for the price I don't think they can be beat.  Could these be run with a SP preamp?

[evilchris]

These mics sound great and for the price I don't think they can be beat.  Could these be run with a SP preamp?

They should run with anything that'll power 'em.  The SP box will do the trick, but Chris can confirm that.

[Church-Audio]

These mics sound great and for the price I don't think they can be beat.  Could these be run with a SP preamp?

They should run with anything that'll power 'em.  The SP box will do the trick, but Chris can confirm that.

These mics will work great with any preamp or battery box that puts out 4 volts to 12 volts of plug in power.

Chris

[Dede2002]

i just added a 2nd sample to my first post of this thread.
enjoy
arni

Arni,

Greetings from Brasil. Samples sounds really nice. Let me ask you a question if you don't mind: how would you compare the Church cards with your MM-HLSC-1? Just curious.
Take care

[Arni99]

i just added a 2nd sample to my first post of this thread.
enjoy
arni

Arni,

Greetings from Brasil. Samples sounds really nice. Let me ask you a question if you don't mind: how would you compare the Church cards with your MM-HLSC-1? Just curious.
Take care

Greets from Vienna to Brasil,
I sold my sennheiser MM-HLSC cardioids and my SP-CMC-8 cardioids, because I LOVE the bass-response of the church-cardioids and the sennheisers and AT943 would NEVER reach this level of bass-pickup.

You get a VERY FULL sounding recording with these cards, very "omnilike" sounding when it comes to bass response .
Now my remaining 2 mics are the church cardioids and my MM-HLSO(MKE-2) omnis.

[Brennan]

You loose about -15dB of signal with the 4.7k mod (-12dB with 3 wire-config).
With the preamp set to 50%-70% of its max. gain you make up the lost 15dB

Okay, so I'm not wrong in turning up the pre to ~75% then...with the +10 switch?

Virgin recording w/ this gear on Tuesday guys, it's gonna be a great show...help me to make it a great recording please

[Arni99]

You loose about -15dB of signal with the 4.7k mod (-12dB with 3 wire-config).
With the preamp set to 50%-70% of its max. gain you make up the lost 15dB

Okay, so I'm not wrong in turning up the pre to ~75% then...with the +10 switch?

Virgin recording w/ this gear on Tuesday guys, it's gonna be a great show...help me to make it a great recording please

i don´t have the 9000 preamp but the 9100 which only has 1 gain-knob with a range from 0db to approx. +20dB(+23,5dB according to chris).
if your +10dB-switch means that 100% on the knob are +10dB, then it would be ok when using an iriver h140 rockboxed with l+r gain set to +10dB on the rockbox screen.

I can´t speak for your gear though.
 

[Dede2002]

i just added a 2nd sample to my first post of this thread.
enjoy
arni

Arni,

Greetings from Brasil. Samples sounds really nice. Let me ask you a question if you don't mind: how would you compare the Church cards with your MM-HLSC-1? Just curious.
Take care

Greets from Vienna to Brasil,
I sold my sennheiser MM-HLSC cardioids and my SP-CMC-8 cardioids, because I LOVE the bass-response of the church-cardioids and the sennheisers and AT943 would NEVER reach this level of bass-pickup.

You get a VERY FULL sounding recording with these cards, very "omnilike" sounding when it comes to bass response .
Now my remaining 2 mics are the church cardioids and my MM-HLSO(MKE-2) omnis.

Thanks for the info, Arni. Have you ever try your new mics indoors? No "omnilike" boominess?

[Church-Audio]

You loose about -15dB of signal with the 4.7k mod (-12dB with 3 wire-config).
With the preamp set to 50%-70% of its max. gain you make up the lost 15dB

Okay, so I'm not wrong in turning up the pre to ~75% then...with the +10 switch?

Virgin recording w/ this gear on Tuesday guys, it's gonna be a great show...help me to make it a great recording please

Run that preamp output knob to full. Its there in case of a need to do a quick but yet subtle change like for example if the bands soundman is a moron and one song is 90 db and the one after it is 120 db you can then turn down the "output" of the preamp by using your knob. That knob is not a gain knob its an output level knob.

Chris

[dorrcoq]

You loose about -15dB of signal with the 4.7k mod (-12dB with 3 wire-config).
With the preamp set to 50%-70% of its max. gain you make up the lost 15dB

Okay, so I'm not wrong in turning up the pre to ~75% then...with the +10 switch?

Virgin recording w/ this gear on Tuesday guys, it's gonna be a great show...help me to make it a great recording please

Who are you seeing?  +T for good luck!

[Arni99]

yes i recorded T.M. Stevens indoor 3 weeks ago. very loud and bass-heavy funk-metal show.
came out great!