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Author Topic: Just got my 722....  (Read 10143 times)

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Offline sparkey

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Just got my 722....
« on: April 02, 2009, 11:55:21 AM »
....and damn am I a lazy bastard.  I've thumbed through the manual, but thought I throw a post out here asking how people like to run theirs.

I'll be using it as a mic pre and also behind my V2, as well as conversion of DAT tapes (can I do DAT>FLAC??).  Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Thank you!!

Josh
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Offline boojum

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Re: Just got my 722....
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2009, 07:50:27 PM »
Unless you are plugged in run DAT > WAV.  The FLAC processing chews up a lot of CPU.  And what's the point anyway?  You can always FLAC it on your computer after you have recorded the DAT's onto the 722.  A 722 has a lot of space on the built-in HD.

You will be running line in for this, you know. 

I do not know why you would use it as a pre to feed another machine.  The 722 is a pretty good recorder.  Feeding it with another pre is OK, but the pre's in the 722 are good as are the converters.  It is a good all-in-oner package.  The best possible recorder?  No.  Excellent?  Yes.


Cheers
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 07:53:03 PM by boojum »
Nov schmoz kapop.

Offline Just Taper Mark from NC

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Re: Just got my 722....
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2009, 08:46:32 PM »
got my new one at the end of last month and have already had to send it in for warranty
repair.read through the manual and took it with me to hampton and asked bean and others
a TON of questions before and had still had some minor issues,things you have to learn the
hard way I guess but still.

it is a nice unit though.haven't had the oppotunity to run the v3 in front of it yet but after
toting such a light bag around hampton I doubt I ever will.  :)
Positive vibration man.That's what makes it work.That's reggae music.You can't look away because it is real.You listen to what I sing because I mean what I sing,there's no secret,no big deal.,Just honesty,that's all."-Hon. Robert Nesta Marley 1977

Offline dennisrtyler

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Re: Just got my 722....
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2009, 09:20:42 PM »
got my new one at the end of last month and have already had to send it in for warranty
repair.read through the manual and took it with me to hampton and asked bean and others
a TON of questions before and had still had some minor issues,things you have to learn the
hard way I guess but still.

it is a nice unit though.haven't had the oppotunity to run the v3 in front of it yet but after
toting such a light bag around hampton I doubt I ever will.  :)
what repair?
4. im so abrasive i make sandpaper nervous.

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Offline Just Taper Mark from NC

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Re: Just got my 722....
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2009, 09:51:16 PM »
2 LED's burned out on the 1st night out  ::)

unit works great otherwise.the main issue I had was the 2gig limit
before it seperates the tracks  :P it wouldn't be an issue cause people
have told me what to do to fix it but my windows vista doesn't like the
wavelab 5.0 apparently so I need to figure out another path to use.

« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 09:54:09 PM by Captain Awesome »
Positive vibration man.That's what makes it work.That's reggae music.You can't look away because it is real.You listen to what I sing because I mean what I sing,there's no secret,no big deal.,Just honesty,that's all."-Hon. Robert Nesta Marley 1977

Offline dennisrtyler

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Re: Just got my 722....
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2009, 10:50:20 PM »
gotcha. it's crazy how many people have had LEDs go bad early. could be worse.
4. im so abrasive i make sandpaper nervous.

Schoeps CMR/mk4 > Naiant PFA > Oade Concert Mod Marantz PMD-661

Offline RobertNC

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Re: Just got my 722....
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2009, 08:15:13 PM »
OK this is the basic setup info I sent a buddy when he first got his.  I've only run mic in - for a pre you'll have to do more work.  Hopefully other people will correct any errors and/or improve my information.

Battery:  You need to get one right away.  The stock is way too small.

Sony NP-F970 are factory recommended. I have one but just got an Impact and it is better, and for the same price.  Avoid the cheaper knockoffs.  Shit, a show now costs $50 bucks, you don't wanna run outta juice from skimping on a battery.

I've had good luck with these, but a buddy has had less good results.  Check out 722 battery thread in the remote power thread for more info.

Impact NPF-F975:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/465330-REG/Impact_NPF975_NP_F975_Lithium_Ion_Battery.html

When you get it, plug in your mics to have phantom, hit record and let it run all night until it dies - one time.  This will "reset" the battery if it has been sitting on a shelf for a while.  After that it should charge to full and give you a solid 7 hours plus at 24/96 with the front panel light mostly off.


Basic 722 setup:

I skip the options that are either not important to begin with or that you can explore on your own to find a preference.

1)  Sample rate:  This is a personal call.  Higher sampling rates record more information because you sample more times per second.

Anything above 96KHz is just overkill. The files will be huge and the battery burn hard.

I run 96KHz, this is probably a standard for most 722 users that tape "evening shows".  People that tape a lot of festies may run at 48 to conserve battery and file space.

I suggest 96KHz.

2)  Bit Depth - definitely 24 bit.  24 bit is the way to go because it gives you higher resolution, and you can record more information at much lower volumes.  To get the same amount of detail running in 16 bit you have to run much hotter. Hot is not the sweet spot for a 722 direct mic in.

3)  File Type:  wav.poly.  No decision, you don't want to record mono.

4)  Media select: Up to you.  I run INHDD only.  Some people run CF only.  The advantage is less power drain running CF.  Not much point in recording to both CF and INHDD unless you have a lot of mileage and feel like the hard drive needs replacing soon, in which case CF gives you a backup if Harddrive fails.  Recording to both uses more juice.  For a new deck pick one or the other but not both.  But ... If you are gonna run 24/96 smaller CF cards don't cut it - files are too big.  If Phil runs a really long set you could possibly fill up a 4 gig card before the end.  I recorded a Warren show last week and his second set was over 4 gigs.

5)  Pre-roll time. Set to as high as it goes.  This is the number of seconds you get buffered before you press record.  If you set 5 seconds, as long as the unit is on you can be caught off guard, and you have 5 seconds to hit record before you lose anything.  Mule cranks up by surprise and you fumble for the REC button for less than 5 seconds, the deck already has the first 5 seconds recorded for you.

6) Record Dither:  Off

7)  Error Handler- always set to Keep recording to new file.  This is an option that is useless for tapers.  People using these decks for non-concert taping may want to stop and restart. But there are no do-overs in show recording.  If an error occurs starting a new file may or may not reset the error, but it is the only logical thing to do.  Setting it to stop means you lose recording time always.  I've seen my 722 restart a new file after recording to one for only a few seconds.  The joined files had no loss, so I don't know if this is an error or not, but I've seen it happen, and would have been bummed if it had in fact just stopped.

8)  Routing: 1-> A 2->B.  This is one mic to one channel, second mic to second channel.

9)  Inputs 1 and 2 Phantom Power:  Set to each to mic on for mic in.  As long as you are running mic in to the XLRs, you don't need phantom power to any line in.    Also read the manual for how the XLRs work.  For mic in phantom power the little switch above each should be far left.

10)  Mic Input Limiters:  Disabled.  If you ever actually hit it, you are just running this box wrong.  722 mic in should be run cool.  You should never run this box hot enough to have the limiter kick in, and if it does kick in it sounds like ass. (New note:  I've read that newer firmware fixes problems people used to report about the limiters sounding like ass.  Personally I have never needed them.)

11) Low Cut and Frequency:  This is a topic in itself.  I used to never use it, then I tried the 40/12, and love it.  Probably want to start not using it a few times, read about it and you may want to try it and see for yourself.

12) Mic Input Gain Range - I always run Low and that is best for for rock and roll shows.  Even bluegrass I run low, and maybe boost the gain more.  Unless you are recording unamplified acoustic, Low almost always gives you plenty of signal.  I've never needed normal.  Again, always, soft is the sweet spot for the 722 pre amps.

13) Input 1, 2 Source Select:  Auto select.  If you ever have a board patch or something besides Mic in you have to do different stuff.  See the manual.

14)  Input 1,2 Linking:  Start with unlinked. This means the left gain controls Left and Right controls right.  Logical for the new user.  Linked turns it into a "stereo".  Top knob becomes volume, bottom knob becomes L/R balance.  The result is the same.  Some people swear by it. I've never liked the idea.  You can try it once you are comfortable with the deck.  Never use M/S linked - if you ever decide to run M/S you'll have to learn about it and then you'll understand why you never want to use this.

15)  Line Input 1,2 Gain Controls - Knobs of course.  Can't understand why anyone would want to use buttons.

16)  File Max Size - this is important.  File splits are seamless, and happen automatically.  I think most people use 2 gig.  4 gigs does not offer a real advantage, and some older audio software cannot handle a 4 gig file.  Also a FAT32 file system will have problems with files this size.  My old version of CEP for example cannot load a 4 gig file.  I personally use 1 gig because I do a lot of my processing on an older laptop, and even though CEP can handle a 2 gig file it is really slow because of memory use.  That is a lot of extra work though.  The Mule show at 24/96 was 7 files, about 6 gig total.  If you have a good computer 2 gig files are less work.

17)  Meter ballistics - your choice.  I use Peak Hold + VU.

That is the basic setup.  The rest of the stuff is either stuff you probably will not use or file system settings.

As far as gain goes.

Ask people who run a 722 mic in and like it and they will probably tell you about the same thing.  For 24 bit, meters hitting the first red occasionally and second red lighting up only a little or not at all is ideal.  If you are hitting the second red a lot you may want to back it down a little.  Just add gain in post to bring up the final volume.

People that think the 722 pres suck probably have either never run one or just could not wrap their head around the concept of doing something other than running hot as balls.

That will get you started for mic in..     

Sweet deck.  Welcome to the team.  I've had mine a couple of years now, no LEDs burned out ;-) and it has always performed flawlessly.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2009, 08:17:39 PM by RobertNC »
SD:  Microtech Gefell M210 > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722
LD:                   ADK A51 TL > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722
Guns:               DPA 4017    > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722

****************************************************************

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Just got my 722....
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2009, 09:34:05 PM »
Awesome tutorial Robert ;) 8)

+T :P ;D
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Offline JackHenry

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Re: Just got my 722....
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2009, 02:00:37 AM »
One other thing that is useful for the meters is to set menu item #55 - Meter: Peak Threshold. This sets a value for dB Full Scale. I have mine set to -8 which leaves a bit of headroom.

In the latest firmware (version 2.61)
ALSO menu item #53 - LCD: Gain Display. This allows you to display the gain setting permanently. Previously, the gain only displayed while adjusting it. The display then reverted back to bit depth and sample rate (which is a useless bit of info if you know what you've set it at) You can also set it to cycle through bit depth and gain setting.

John

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Just got my 722....
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2009, 02:12:19 AM »
One other thing that is useful for the meters is to set menu item #55 - Meter: Peak Threshold. This sets a value for dB Full Scale. I have mine set to -8 which leaves a bit of headroom.

In the latest firmware (version 2.61)
ALSO menu item #53 - LCD: Gain Display. This allows you to display the gain setting permanently. Previously, the gain only displayed while adjusting it. The display then reverted back to bit depth and sample rate (which is a useless bit of info if you know what you've set it at) You can also set it to cycle through bit depth and gain setting.

John

I have my Peak Threshold set to -3db ;) Smart piece of useful info if you ask me ;) BUT, I NEVER run my gain that high tho, so its useless for me in all reality.

Noticed the new gain setting today. I had it permanently set to gain for awhile while playinga round w/ it today, but would rather it show BD/SR IMO. I could CARE LESS how much gain I'm adding, just where I'm peaking at ;) 8)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
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DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

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Offline ghellquist

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Re: Just got my 722....
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2009, 10:12:02 AM »
Quite good advice given so far. Will only add one more tidbit of experience + one opinion.

The small black mic/line/aes switches are a bit too easy to slide to the wrong position. Always check them every time. Also do learn the shortcut for Phantom on / off. (Tilde + Menu / HDD). The shortcuts are good to learn, especially since they can be hit by mistake.

Now for opinions: after extensive testing I have decided on running at 44.1kHz. The difference in sound when compared to 96 is tiny, sort of like moving the mics a foot or so in the room. Yes, the AD in the box is that good. Save a lot of disc space.

Suggestion for software: on windows, I cannot say enough good things for Samplitude. There are a few different "sizes" around, probably Samplitude Master is the closest to what you would use.

// Gunnar

Offline sparkey

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Re: Just got my 722....
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2009, 11:33:43 AM »
One other thing that is useful for the meters is to set menu item #55 - Meter: Peak Threshold. This sets a value for dB Full Scale. I have mine set to -8 which leaves a bit of headroom.

Thank you so much for all the great information!

So the Peak Threshold setting is essentially a setting for a gain ceiling?

Josh
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Just got my 722....
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2009, 12:18:37 PM »
The Meter: Peak Threshold isn't a ceiling for gain, like a limiter (i.e. it doesn't prevent levels from going any higher), it's just an easy visual indicator that you've reached a certain threshold in dBFS level.

So, let's say I want to make certain I'm aware of when my signal hits -6 dBFS.  If memory serves, there isn't a -6 dBFS light, just -12, -8, -4, peak (0 dBFS by default).  If you set the Peak Threshold to -6 dBFS, instead of lighting at 0 dBFS, the peak (furthest right) light will trigger at -6 dBFS.  It's just an easier visual indicator that you've hit -6 dBFS than reading / counting the meters (which meter peaked...3rd from the right?  4th?  maybe 2nd or 5th?  Nope, THE peak meter lit up, which is easy to notice.)

Some of the shortcut keys make for easy setup.  As ghellquist indicated, Tilde + Menu / HDD = Phantom ON/OFF.  But remember, Input + Menu / HDD = MUTE!

I'll also agree with ghellquist on the Samplitude recommendation.  I love SAM SE v09.  :D  Excellent object oriented, non-destructive workflow, and sounds great.
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Offline John R

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Re: Just got my 722....
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2009, 02:23:42 PM »
Regarding .Flac, I use it all the time.  It uses a lot less space, when needed during festival season.
we all live downstream.

Offline JackHenry

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Re: Just got my 722....
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2009, 06:02:38 PM »
In relation to shortcut keys. Menu item #82 Info: Button Shortcuts gives you a list of them all.

 

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