Topic: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR

[Dede2002]

That's what I was guessing. Thanks for letting us know.

OK, if you are on the same wavelength as me, any suggestions on resolutions or fixes?

Humm, not really. What about your preamp gain?
I assume it's fixed, otherwise you would be able to control the signal sent to your recorder and avoid the problem.
Sorry, I don't know much about the Nbox.

[udovdh]

I assume it's fixed, otherwise you would be able to control the signal sent to your recorder and avoid the problem.
Sorry, I don't know much about the Nbox.

If it's done with opamps you can change around resistors and change the gain.
If it's discrete probably similar?
It won't be done in snmd so it will be solderable.

Also: what is so different about the mics that they need an nbox instead of a phantom power box? (yes, I don't now)

[gmm6797]

The nBox is a custom built pre-amp by one of the members here, and has a mic-in connector, RCA out and on/off... no gain or other controls.

The Schoepes mics are just the caps and require a propriety Schoeps active cable for their propriety Schoeps preamp or full bodies which make thes great sounding small mics too large to tape in the hat.

The nBox has a propriety custom active cable that only works with the nBox, but makes for a nice (as possible) comprimise from the Schoeps pre that is available (~$2200) for about 1/3 less and sounds just as good

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Original post from two years ago describing brickwall / distortion issue:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,84587.0.html

[udovdh]

hmm. yes. but the capsule needs power (battery-box, phantom, etc) and optionally some gain applied to the signal.
As I understand it now the nbox does both.
Also, as was found, the signal in your situations is quite hot.
So the gain could be less or could be removed completely.
In that case, what is so different (technically) about the capsules that they need all these specific 'active cables' *and* a pre, etc?

Did anyone ever try to power these capsules directly? (i.e.: no `active` cables)

[udovdh]

Original post from two years ago describing brickwall / distortion issue:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,84587.0.html

Interesting, but why were you using the r09 at maximum attenuation?
And not even near the often asked-for unity gain?
And adding gain?

(just asking, I am not implying there is no problem but just wondering why)

Again fixed gain?

[gmm6797]

Original post from two years ago describing brickwall / distortion issue:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,84587.0.html

Thanks, but comparing the R09 to the R09hr (as this thread is titled) is like comparing apples to oranges.... sorry, next please

[Dede2002]

Original post from two years ago describing brickwall / distortion issue:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,84587.0.html

Interesting, but why were you using the r09 at maximum attenuation?
And not even near the often asked-for unity gain?
And adding gain?

(just asking, I am not implying there is no problem but just wondering why)

Again fixed gain?

I have the same doubts. Anyway, I'm not familiar with those boxes, I'm just a humble R-09HR user, sorry about my lack of knowledge.
But I just can't see the point of running a preamp with no adjustable gain. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, that's what preamps are made for: amplify/adjust the signal that is being sent to a power amp, recorder etc.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

If it works for your levels, fine.   I don't need to convince anyone of anything.  Facts are facts and the r09 issue is old news, even if some haven't yet noticed their recordings are distorted or sound worse than they could.  Some of us are looking for compact recorders that perform similar to a 7xx in three very important areas -  reliability, audio quality, and signal handling.

The problem is the r09, and probably the hr, distort before they clip and do so at fairly comparatively low levels.  So whatever edirol mfg spec exists on max signal handling before clipping is wrong.   It's actually even lower than advertised.

There are "accepted" recording levels that a/d's should be able to take before clipping or distorting.  The world will not recalibrate for the r09/hr.

If you take a patch out of someone setting levels for a piece of pro gear, you risk distortion.   I believe even non-pro signal levels will distort the r09.

If you record with a v3 and set levels appropriate to the digital output or built-in a/d, the analog output will be wayyy too hot for the r09.  Even at trim setting 1, you must compromise and turn down the pre or the r09 will clip (and regardless, it will be distorting bass).

So the solution is to compromise with input pads... and try to find a portable that has better signal handling.

[Dede2002]

Original post from two years ago describing brickwall / distortion issue:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,84587.0.html

Thanks, but comparing the R09 to the R09hr (as this thread is titled) is like comparing apples to oranges.... sorry, next please

Ditto.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Thanks, but comparing the R09 to the R09hr (as this thread is titled) is like comparing apples to oranges.... sorry, next please

Ditto.
[/quote]

Actually, it is comparing apples to apples.  And both apples have worms.  People have reported the same distortion problem with the HR.

[Dede2002]

Freelunch,

Please don't take me wrong: I'm not disputing or debating your points here.
It's just that I've never experimented distortion issues either with the R-09 or R-09HR.
Of course, I don't run my preamp ( CA 9-100) very often, only when it's needed for more quiet/acoustic stuff.
Anyway, no distortion problems.
Take care

[udovdh]

Maybe the issue is frequency-dependent?
I.e.: could happen more on some setups than on others?
Also: do we use the extremes of the decks as much as Freelunch?
(To boldly go... )

[Chuck]

So, the Edirol R-09HR at ~$310 is the ticket for small portable 24 bit recording now?
I'm considering getting back into 24 bit...
I use iRiver iHP-120 & iHP-140 now, for 16 bit (optical in) and I am very happy with them.

[Dede2002]

Maybe the issue is frequency-dependent?
I.e.: could happen more on some setups than on others?
Also: do we use the extremes of the decks as much as Freelunch?
(To boldly go... )

I'm not an extremist, that's for sure