Topic: Active style setups without bodies?

[nicegrin]

For which of the listed “active style” setups below would it be possible to build a cable and go
capsules -> cable -> naiant tinybox (or similar phantom device) -> recorder
(hence knocking the bodies out of the equation!)?

AKG
CK6x -> actives -> 460/480 bodies

Beyerdynamics
CK930 -> non active cables -> CV900 bodies

MBHO
Ka200 / ka500 -> cables -> MBP 603a bodies

Milab
WM 44 Links -> cables –> bodies

Neumann
AK40 / AK50 -> LC3 actives  -> KM100 bodies


What are the general requirements for getting the bodies out of the equation and would any of these setups be easier/harder then the others to mod this way?
Very curious to learn more about this!

Thanks
N

 

[tgakidis]

AKG
CK6x -> actives -> 460/480 bodies

 

There is no such animal.  The ck6_ line has never had an "active" system available from AKG nor has anyone developed one.  There once was a box from JKlabs that took the bodies out of the picture. 

AKG did however create the ck_x line that worked with the mk46 remote cable, not active, and the c460b body.  The c480b body does not function with this system.  This system has been out of production for some time now.

I am currently working with Jon at Naiant to get the kinks out of a tiny box that he created for the ck_x line of capsules.  The first proto type had a frighteningly high frequency response.

[JasonSobel]

Beyerdynamics
CK930 -> non active cables -> CV900 bodies

Jon has just recently made (or is in the process of making) a Littlebox that will power the beyerdynamic CK930's directly, without the use of the CV900 bodies

Neumann
AK40 / AK50 -> LC3 actives  -> KM100 bodies

It is possible to run the Neumann caps directly from a modified Sonosax SX-M2 (Sonosax themselves did the modification).  This makes me believe that it would be possible for someone else to create another pre-amp that would power the caps directly.

AKG's, MBHO's, and Milab's, I don't know much about the possibilities of running the caps without the bodies.

You didn't list Schoeps, perhaps because of cost, or perhaps because you are already aware of the many options available to run the Schoeps caps directly without the mic bodies.

[page]

Beyerdynamics
CK930 -> non active cables -> CV900 bodies

Jon has just recently made (or is in the process of making) a Littlebox that will power the beyerdynamic CK930's directly, without the use of the CV900 bodies

Ok, you're the second person I've seen mention this. Where did I miss this? Linky?

[nicegrin]

Jon has just recently made (or is in the process of making) a Littlebox that will power the beyerdynamic CK930's directly, without the use of the CV900 bodies

Nice! But mic bodies + tinybox will still be smaller than just the littlebox I guess.  @Jon Naiant (assuming he will read this thread! ):  Would a tinybox solution be possible aswell?
If so I´d like to make a preorder!

You didn't list Schoeps, perhaps because of cost, or perhaps because you are already aware of the many options available to run the Schoeps caps directly without the mic bodies.

Yes I´ve seen Darktrains very nice cmr + tinybox setup so I excluded it from my list because of that basically!

/N.

[JasonSobel]

Beyerdynamics
CK930 -> non active cables -> CV900 bodies

Jon has just recently made (or is in the process of making) a Littlebox that will power the beyerdynamic CK930's directly, without the use of the CV900 bodies

Ok, you're the second person I've seen mention this. Where did I miss this? Linky?

the discussion about the littlebox to power the CK930 caps directly starts here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130031.msg1804590#msg1804590

and there is some more discussion here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=115606.msg1805295#msg1805295

Jon has just recently made (or is in the process of making) a Littlebox that will power the beyerdynamic CK930's directly, without the use of the CV900 bodies

Nice! But mic bodies + tinybox will still be smaller than just the littlebox I guess.  @Jon Naiant (assuming he will read this thread! ):  Would a tinybox solution be possible aswell?
If so I´d like to make a preorder!

well, with the CK930 caps, two different voltages are required (along two of the four pins).  One of the voltages the cap requires is +48V.  While this is no problem for the littlebox, the tinybox (as far as I know) cannot deliver +48V.  therefore, my guess is that you need the littlebox to go this route, and not the tinybox.  However, if you keep the mic bodies in the chain, then tinybox will work, because the mic bodies will take the +12v phantom from the tinybox and convert it to the +48v that the cap needs.

[page]

and there is some more discussion here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=115606.msg1805295#msg1805295

Gotcha, I missed his reply, thanks.

Nice! But mic bodies + tinybox will still be smaller than just the littlebox I guess.  @Jon Naiant (assuming he will read this thread! ):  Would a tinybox solution be possible aswell?
If so I´d like to make a preorder!

well, with the CK930 caps, two different voltages are required (along two of the four pins).  One of the voltages the cap requires is +48V.  While this is no problem for the littlebox, the tinybox (as far as I know) cannot deliver +48V.  therefore, my guess is that you need the littlebox to go this route, and not the tinybox.  However, if you keep the mic bodies in the chain, then tinybox will work, because the mic bodies will take the +12v phantom from the tinybox and convert it to the +48v that the cap needs.

That was where I was headed with slicing up a set of bodies; use the natural P12 signal tinybox produces and then let the beyer circuit step it up before sending it out the tinybox connectors. I suspect there is some laws of physics I'm attempting to disobey, namely size, but it was a thought. 

[nicegrin]

That was where I was headed with slicing up a set of bodies; use the natural P12 signal tinybox produces and then let the beyer circuit step it up before sending it out the tinybox connectors. I suspect there is some laws of physics I'm attempting to disobey, namely size, but it was a thought. 

I like the way you´re thinking!  

I guess the smallest way to power 48v still is recorder+Denecke PS-2 OR XLRs to TRS adapters going into a MT2 or is there some other smaller alternative?

/N

[page]

That was where I was headed with slicing up a set of bodies; use the natural P12 signal tinybox produces and then let the beyer circuit step it up before sending it out the tinybox connectors. I suspect there is some laws of physics I'm attempting to disobey, namely size, but it was a thought. 

I like the way you´re thinking!  

I guess the smallest way to power 48v still is recorder+Denecke PS-2 OR XLRs to TRS adapters going into a MT2 or is there some other smaller alternative?

/N

If you have to have standard P48, then yeah, that's about right. Thats one of the advantages of many german setups; large segments of the product lines that we are interested in run on P12 and sometimes anywhere between 12-52v.

The two problems I see with a beyer ck9X0-oriented box is:
1) The bodies arn't all that big, really it just about doubles the size of a tinybox, and in a pinch for space, you can put the bodies elsewhere and run cables instead of having to put them right next to the tinybox.
2) You can't get the caps separately, so there isn't a cost-saving incentive.

[illconditioned]

I don't know about the ck930, but I've run the regular 930s with a self-made battery box.  The box is two 9v batteries in series, supplies a phantom voltage of 18v through a pair of 2k resistors.  I've got four 2k resistors (two for each channel) plus two 2.2uF poly blocking caps, and output to a miniplug.   I've run this directly into an Edirol R09 (mic in) and it works great for rock shows.  So, if you kept the ck930 bodies, you could power with a circuit like this.  Not tiny, but it would get the job done.


 Richard

[page]

I don't know about the ck930, but I've run the regular 930s with a self-made battery box.  The box is two 9v batteries in series, supplies a phantom voltage of 18v through a pair of 2k resistors.  I've got four 2k resistors (two for each channel) plus two 2.2uF poly blocking caps, and output to a miniplug.   I've run this directly into an Edirol R09 (mic in) and it works great for rock shows.  So, if you kept the ck930 bodies, you could power with a circuit like this.  Not tiny, but it would get the job done.

exactly, cause the 930s (both ck/mc) operate anywhere in 11-52v, and they have such a hot output (the 950s are 35 mv/pa) that you don't need much/any gain for most recorders.

That's what makes the Tinybox so attractive, it will feed them either P12 or better which they are happy with (and it's a small box), but you have to keep the bodies to do it. They are using an upconverter of some type which is really what I want to scavenge from the bodies to generate the 48v & 8.2v...

Schoeps currently has the smallest system with caps > cmr/tinybox > recorder, but beyer comes in second in size since the caps have the electronics in the caps (so they are longer, comparable to 4V caps), and currently you need the bodies in addition to the tinybox. Where gain is needed more in the schoeps setup, it's almost tertiary for the beyer system since the caps are so hot. I wonder if we could trade the gain stage on the PCB for the ability to generate the appropriate voltages... 

[johnw]

Jon has just recently made (or is in the process of making) a Littlebox that will power the beyerdynamic CK930's directly, without the use of the CV900 bodies

Nice! But mic bodies + tinybox will still be smaller than just the littlebox I guess.  @Jon Naiant (assuming he will read this thread! ):  Would a tinybox solution be possible aswell?
If so I´d like to make a preorder!

You didn't list Schoeps, perhaps because of cost, or perhaps because you are already aware of the many options available to run the Schoeps caps directly without the mic bodies.

Yes I´ve seen Darktrains very nice cmr + tinybox setup so I excluded it from my list because of that basically!

/N.

Add to that list for schoeps:

schoeps caps>KCY>Lemosax
schoeps caps>Nbox
schoeps caps>KCY>VMS5U
schoeps caps>KCY>VMS021B
schoeps CCM>any preamp with XLR phantom power

Neumann also has the MTX 191A amplifier which when paired with the AC30 cable can work similar to the Lemosax.

And of course there are the DPA options like the 4022 that are similar to the schoeps ccm mics and can be powered by any preamp with XLR P48