Author Topic: Opinions for playback system (Read 9015 times)

hzgone · « **on:** July 20, 2005, 02:44:19 PM »

I have been looking to get a new playback system and wanted to get some ideas for some of you. Budget 3k. I'm thinking about going with tubes. I know ss is going to be cheaper, but i think i'm going to stick with the tubes. I will be doing this from scratch. So i will need amp, speakers and everything else. I have been looking at audiogon but i don't know what is good or a good deal on there.

Speakers i was thinking the vr4jr, or the Db-99 MkII would these be good with the tubes or would something match better?

I have a sv-3800 dat that i will use and that is about it

All suggestions welcome

EScott · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2005, 02:53:37 PM »

Quote from: hzgone on July 20, 2005, 02:44:19 PM

I have been looking to get a new playback system and wanted to get some ideas for some of you. Budget 3k. I'm thinking about going with tubes. I know ss is going to be cheaper, but i think i'm going to stick with the tubes. I will be doing this from scratch. So i will need amp, speakers and everything else. I have been looking at audiogon but i don't know what is good or a good deal on there.

Speakers i was thinking the vr4jr, or the Db-99 MkII would these be good with the tubes or would something match better?

I have a sv-3800 dat that i will use and that is about it

All suggestions welcome

I have the VRjr's and I am powering them with a Cary SLI-80.

I have only had the VSA's for about a month and do not have nearly enough time on them yet (they recommend 300 hours), but the break in period so far has been awesome. They don't sound anything like the speakers that originally arrived on my doorstep. The VSA's are incredible, they easily best any of the other speakers I auditioned in the same price range. You may want to consider the VR2's, I think they can be had in the $1500 range. Boswell just got a pair of these last week and the imaging and soundstage on them is fantastic.

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2005, 03:02:33 PM »

CJ Premier 11A + VR4jrs = super sweet and very seductive

There have been a few VR4JR ads on agon in the 2300-2500 range but those were for local pick-up only. If you can make the drive, you save about $500 off the going price for a used pair. For $700, there are a few very good amps that would be in that range. I only have experience with the CJ gear. If you like liquid warm mids, you can pick up an MV50 for about $600.

hzgone · « **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2005, 12:28:49 AM »

Thanks for the info guys, keep it coming. Would like to hear more thoughts. So far everything sounds good and i will keep my eye open for some things. I did some reading on the vr2's and from what i read seem really good for the type of playback i'm looking for.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #4 on:** July 21, 2005, 07:23:41 AM »

come and talk to me if you want VSA speakers.
I can offer my TS.com discount. its significant....about what youd pay used...only new.
I can also get B stock, which will be MUCH less money for a brand new VR2 w/a scratch in the finish or something.

$3k
Manley Stingray integrated CLASS A 40wpc tubes
VR2s
fucking sweet in a small / mid sized room. will knock you out!

EScott · « **Reply #5 on:** July 21, 2005, 07:34:44 AM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on July 21, 2005, 07:23:41 AM

come and talk to me if you want VSA speakers.
I can offer my TS.com discount. its significant....about what youd pay used...only new.
I can also get B stock, which will be MUCH less money for a brand new VR2 w/a scratch in the finish or something.

$3k
Manley Stingray integrated CLASS A 40wpc tubes
VR2s
fucking sweet in a small / mid sized room. will knock you out!

I'll second that staement - Nick can offer a substantial discount on the VSA line!

wboswell · « **Reply #6 on:** July 21, 2005, 09:33:59 AM »

I'm powering the VR2's with a NAD T763 integrated multi channel amp. My room is fairly large and the 100watts/channel is enough to fill it nicely. I've only had the VR2's for two weeks so I'm still playing with my options. I've got an Onyx Rocket UFW-10 sub that I can't seem to let go of, despite trying. I've finally dialed in the 2900 and figured out how to go 2 channel and 2.1, and 2.1 just adds so much. The VR2's are rated down to 25hz, just like the UFW-10, but the sub has just a touch more presence, without being sloppy, so I end up listening 2.1 most of the time. The thing that has impressed me the most is the rear firing tweeter. There are times when I swear that there is a crowd behind me, going crazy. Its weird, but makes for a really cool experience.

Basically, I'm stuck with multi-channel b/c I really enjoy watching movies in 5.1. However, my next home purchase will have to take into consideration a dedicated two channel room, but for now, I'm happy with what I've got!

Escott has the deal, though. The Cary has just enough juice to push the 4jr's. The results are jaw dropping. Superb imaging and soundstage...

Evil Taper · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2005, 01:02:57 AM »

Out of curiousity what's the retail on the VR2 or VR4JR series speakers? These look like extremely interesting and beefy speakers for people who love live music. To be crude are these "cream yer jeans" good kinda speakers?

carlbeck · « **Reply #8 on:** July 25, 2005, 06:06:15 AM »

They are without a doubt cream your jeans kind of speakers. I also run VR4jr's with tubes. I am currently running a BAT VK60 for power. I am on the fence about selling it though, I have a new listening room & want/need more power. That being said, if I could afford to buy another VK60, I would never leave tube land. The VSA speakers are magic, I played with alot of equipment & will stick with VSA. Good luck in your search, it's a fun journey.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #9 on:** July 25, 2005, 07:35:01 AM »

retail ..and these are universal prices.
vr2 $2500
4jr $4000

I can do A LOT better though.
and B-stock new items saves an additional large wad of $$ as well.

EScott · « **Reply #10 on:** July 25, 2005, 07:38:36 AM »

Quote from: carlbeck on July 25, 2005, 06:06:15 AM

They are without a doubt cream your jeans kind of speakers. I also run VR4jr's with tubes. I am currently running a BAT VK60 for power. I am on the fence about selling it though, I have a new listening room & want/need more power. That being said, if I could afford to buy another VK60, I would never leave tube land. The VSA speakers are magic, I played with alot of equipment & will stick with VSA. Good luck in your search, it's a fun journey.

I am considering selling my Cary integrated and moving to a horizontal bi amping setup with tubes on top and solid state on the bottom. I do not feel like 40 wpc is doing these speakers justice. Does anyone have any experierence with this type of set-up?

Evil Taper · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2005, 02:25:16 AM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on July 25, 2005, 07:35:01 AM

retail ..and these are universal prices.
vr2 $2500
4jr $4000

I can do A LOT better though.
and B-stock new items saves an additional large wad of $$ as well.

Those prices are per SPEAKER not pair correct? I have to pay for my hdtv first...but I'll be interested in these in say 2-3 months. Will you still be able to pull some strings at that time? Thanks man!

Tim · « **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2005, 02:36:15 AM »

that's for a pair

Evil Taper · « **Reply #13 on:** July 26, 2005, 03:00:37 AM »

i bet they're worth every penny too. from what i've read they sound like the only speakers to own for playing back live recordings. What kind of powering system do you need to operate a pair of these though? I saw that Nick has a Sony reciever (shocked) and loves that setup...so is that the way to go?

Tim · « **Reply #14 on:** July 26, 2005, 03:04:37 AM »

many others are having great success with tube amps, I myself prefer tubes. Scott Brown is a solid state guy - arcam I believe - and he runs the vr2's, so does boswell.

depends on your tastes and budget

Evil Taper · « **Reply #15 on:** July 26, 2005, 03:19:06 AM »

I guess that's a pretty tough call to make for myself. To me no studio album can sound better than that big warm analog sound of the 70s. I'm GUESSING that having a tubed sound system is going to simulate an analog sound from anything played through it correct? When I've hooked my cd player up to my cheapo Behringer analog pre I didn't really like the sound it had because it blew the bass way out of proportion. Is that not even in the same ballpark as a nice analog home stereo setup? Will it produce a liquidlike sound from non analog recordings?

EScott · « **Reply #16 on:** July 26, 2005, 07:07:10 AM »

Tubes are typically don't put out as much power as solid state, so depending on your room size and desired volume levels, you may want to consider this. Also, tubes tend to have a bloated low end at high volume levels. You are supposedly able to remedy this with the Jr's by filling the bass vents - I have not tried it yet.

All those points aside, the highs and mids of a tube set-up can be absolutely incredible.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #17 on:** July 26, 2005, 07:19:32 AM »

the lows can to....w/the right setup.
for example, I find the sound of Manley gear not lacking in any bass at all.

yes...I run VR4s, which are HUGE, w/my Sony 3000es. Though, its not quite enough power..but close.
other amps would drive them better, i'm sure.

My string pulling will always be available for TS.com members.
also, I can get good deals on Manley stuff as well. and let me tell ya, the two are pure synergy. Look up that word in the dictionary, it will say " see stingray > vr2"

Evil Taper · « **Reply #18 on:** July 27, 2005, 02:42:57 AM »

Ok so for a less than large room should you go for the VR2s, VR4jrs or VR4s? Lets say for a large bedroom or small den type of environment. To get a decent setup I'm assuming I should put together around $4000 correct (speakers, cables and power system)? Sorry for asking so many questions but this audiophile type gear is foreign to me. It's not like you can go out and test this type of stuff in stores...heck you're lucky if any place has nice consumer grade stuff even.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #19 on:** July 27, 2005, 07:05:17 AM »

My room is 17'w x 23'deep x 7' high.
the VR2s worked great in my room..the VR4s REALLY work well.
the jr's would also do the trick w/o any trouble, i'm sure.

the vr2 and 4jr are about the same size, and will work in a smaller room too. both output a shitload of dynamics and can have some serious SLAM.

$4k can go a long way....

scervin · « **Reply #20 on:** July 27, 2005, 07:31:46 AM »

Quote from: Evil Taper on July 27, 2005, 02:42:57 AM

Ok so for a less than large room should you go for the VR2s, VR4jrs or VR4s? Lets say for a large bedroom or small den type of environment. To get a decent setup I'm assuming I should put together around $4000 correct (speakers, cables and power system)? Sorry for asking so many questions but this audiophile type gear is foreign to me. It's not like you can go out and test this type of stuff in stores...heck you're lucky if any place has nice consumer grade stuff even.

There should be no problem in going to listen to this stuff. Depending on your area, you should find a couple stores within an hour or so drive that carry the "good stuff". Before spending $4000 I would hope you would at least look at all your options and listen to as much as you can. You can listen to us all day on how this stuff sounds, but your ears matter most.

I was looking into getting a VR2 multichannel setup, but have decided that I want power and processing first. I'm a solid state guy looking at EAD Powermaster amps and the new Verastarr. A Rowland Design amp would be my dream though. Processing is looking like the Anthem D1, AVM-30, or maybe an Aragon Stage One. I probably won't upgrade speakers until I move to a new house 6-8 years from now. I want the next house to be my last, I hate moving!!

sc

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #21 on:** July 27, 2005, 01:21:26 PM »

Quote from: Evil Taper on July 26, 2005, 03:19:06 AM

I'm GUESSING that having a tubed sound system is going to simulate an analog sound from anything played through it correct? .... Will it produce a liquidlike sound from non analog recordings?

Not always. I had a CJ MV50 with EL34s and that was very warm. It did not simulate an analog sound or repair a poor digital source. But it did produce a very warm midrange and the sound was what you seem to be describing.

Next I had a CJ MF2300 which is a SS amp. The CJ SS stuff is well known for it's warm characteristics compared to many other SS amps, even high end units, that sound brittle. So you can get a nice warm sound from SS even if it isn't "tubey".

Now I have a CJ Premier 11A with 6550s. I wanted a return to a more tubey sound. I was initially diappointed. The Premier 11A is everybit as precise and clear as the MF2300. When run at moderate levels, in the linear range where a tube amp and solid state amp should theoreticallty sound the same, it sounded much close to the SS MF2300 than the tubed MV50. So in addition to the topology of the amplifier circuitry, there is some influence with the type of tubes used as well. I'm currently swapping between svetlana 6550 and Tung Sol 6550 reisues. To my ears, the TS6550s sound a little more analytical (less tubey) than the Svets.

Of course now I am not disappointed because the balance between clarity of SS and tubey warmth and goodness is just right in the 11A. But no matter how good it is, a bad digital source will still sound like crap. Any amp or pre-amp that masks what is bad in a poor digital recording is just going to mask what a good digital source might reveal.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #22 on:** July 27, 2005, 01:42:17 PM »

indeed...
if you are after a "great analog sound" , then its the DAC you want to be investing some research in.

hzgone · « **Reply #23 on:** September 08, 2005, 12:11:01 AM »

ok i'm thinking about picking up the Antique Sound Labs AQ-1001DT Integrated Tube Amp in the yard sale wondering if this would go well with the VR2's

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #24 on:** September 08, 2005, 07:37:30 AM »

i'm sure it would
they are fairly efficent speakers. 89db I believe..but not sure.
vonschweikert.com should have the specs.

sweet setup, that will be!!

hzgone · « **Reply #25 on:** September 08, 2005, 10:14:10 PM »

or do i save my money and hold out for the manly stingray

carlbeck · « **Reply #26 on:** September 08, 2005, 10:16:56 PM »

Nick would say Stingray, but I would be curious to hear the ASL personally.

Tim · « **Reply #27 on:** September 08, 2005, 11:01:15 PM »

I love my ASL, I'd like to put it head to head with the stingray but I have NO complaints about my amp....

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #28 on:** September 09, 2005, 08:52:59 AM »

the stingray looks as good as it sounds.

the ASL is cool too..but I think the stingray is so disticnt. it looks like Harley Davidson built it.
MANLEY !!!

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #29 on:** September 09, 2005, 08:37:13 PM »

great thread, im thinking of getting some vr2's, but was wondering if a JVC RX-6000V would be anywhere NEAR enuf to push them

sorry folks, as much as i know about taping, i dont know much about playback

i saw a nice JVC+bose cube speaker deal 3-4 years ago and snatched it up

Daryan · « **Reply #30 on:** September 09, 2005, 09:19:20 PM »

It's probably plenty bud, it just might sound like ass. I haven't heard it, but I really doubt it would do the CS's justice. Good speakers beg for good gear behind them to sound their best.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #31 on:** September 10, 2005, 08:03:28 AM »

the VR2s run at 8ohms. So they are easily driven by just about anything out there.
but they are also HUGELY dynamic, very fast and revieling. not quite electrostat reveiling, but they will let you know what sucks behind them.

Stingray>VR2 is a dream system for the right room.
and speaking of dream systems...wait until Escott posts some pics of his new all tube Manley > vr4jr rig.
thats my dream system, in his room!

EScott · « **Reply #32 on:** September 10, 2005, 08:06:56 AM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on September 10, 2005, 08:03:28 AM

the VR2s run at 8ohms. So they are easily driven by just about anything out there.
but they are also HUGELY dynamic, very fast and revieling. not quite electrostat reveiling, but they will let you know what sucks behind them.

Stingray>VR2 is a dream system for the right room.
and speaking of dream systems...wait until Escott posts some pics of his new all tube Manley > vr4jr rig.
thats my dream system, in his room!

I'll take that bet...

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #33 on:** September 12, 2005, 01:06:02 AM »

anybody have pics of the vr2's

nick-how much would a used stingray run if i could find one

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #34 on:** September 12, 2005, 01:09:53 AM »

Quote from: Bean on September 12, 2005, 01:06:02 AM

anybody have pics of the vr2's

http://www.vonschweikert.com/

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #35 on:** September 12, 2005, 04:10:42 AM »

+T brian

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #36 on:** September 12, 2005, 07:04:43 AM »

i've seen them as cheap as $1250, but usualy they run around $13-1500, depending on the tubes being sold with them.

I can get them new for not all that much more.
:-)

they are always on agon..but there are none at the moment.
try eBay.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #37 on:** September 12, 2005, 08:47:44 PM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on September 12, 2005, 07:04:43 AM

i've seen them as cheap as $1250, but usualy they run around $13-1500, depending on the tubes being sold with them.

I can get them new for not all that much more.
:-)

they are always on agon..but there are none at the moment.
try eBay.

thats for the stingray right

what about a pair of used/demo/b-stock vr-2's nick

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #38 on:** September 13, 2005, 07:30:06 AM »

b stock vr2s...and this is not an exact quote..
but they will be somewhere around $1300-1600

i dont know for sure. I think it will be around $35% off full retail, maybe even more.
B stocks are brand new w/an imperfection in the finish. very minor, typicaly.