Topic: Neumann mic advise

[SClassical]

I'm thinking of adding another pair of omnis to my collection (this time I want to try out Neumann mics) the only problem is I need them as compact as possible for stealthing. I know Neumann does not have the compact mics similar to DPAs or Schoeps so I thought of getting these:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KM183Pair/specs/#anchor

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/264889.html

I'll put the capsule on one end of the cable the the body on the other end.

This will make a compact microphone which is stealthable on one end similar to my DPA 4052 and Schoeps CCM2S.

Has anyone in the group ever tried stealthing with this sort of combo?

And is it worth the money and time in getting this combo just to try and play around and see if I like the sound compare to my current brands? Anyone recorded classical music (especially instrumental) with these mics before and have samples to post or email me so I can hear the quality?

[Brian Skalinder]

The KM18x series doesn't allow for remote capsules via the LC3 cables.  You'd need the AK30 or AK31 caps + LC3 cables + KM100 bodies to run the caps remotely from the bodies.

[DSatz]

That's just not a possible combination of hardware. The capsule end of the KM 183 wouldn't attach to the cable, and the other end of the cable wouldn't attach to the KM 180-series amplifier.

The KM 180 series is their (relatively) low cost, non-modular series while the KM 100 series is modular. The extension cable is from the KM 100 series. You would need an active capsule from the KM 100 series--either the AK 30 (which has the same characteristics as the capsule of the KM 183) or the AK 31 (which has flat response on axis, and is designed for use close to the sound source, where the main sound energy is direct).

--best regards

[boojum]

I am not the brightest bear in the woods so what I would do is call Neumann, tell them what you want to do, and get their recommendations.  If you want Neumann, and don't we all, why not ask the folks who know: the manufacturer and their reps.  It is a valid point of view they would give you to weigh with the experience of folks who are using these mics.

Cheers     

[SClassical]

Thanks! I'll email them and ask them for advise 

[noahbickart]

Go ahead a call them if you want to, but Brian and Dsatz are correct:

the 18x series doesn't allow for remote mounting of the caps. The capsules on thr 183 (omni), 184 (card), and 185(hyper) are fixed. The only way to get them off is to break the microphone.

If you want a small diaphram active Neumann onmi, the 143 with the cable you linked to is your only option.

Hope this helps!

-Noah

[kskreider]

If you want a small diaphram active Neumann onmi, the 143 with the cable you linked to is your only option.

Hope this helps!

-Noah

Nope, that doesn't.  What you are referring to at a "143" typically represents this: AK 43 mic capsule > LC3KA active cable > KM100 mic body.

The AK43 capsule is actually a wide cardiod and NOT an omni.  Neumann's modular omni capsules are the AK 30 (diffuse) and AK31 (direct)

So his only modular Neumann solution would be more like AK 30, or AK31 mic capsule > LC3KA active cable > KM100 mic body.

[SClassical]

Oh thanks!
So anyone here/or you know anyone who go for this setup? So I guess each item is purchased separately...

AK 30, or AK31 mic capsule > LC3KA active cable > KM100 mic body

[kskreider]

Nah, you could buy a km130 or km 131 kit and then just add a pair of active cables.

It is an expensive way to go since it would most likely just be bodies, capsule and cables with no other accessories, but those would probably run you around $2000. (guessing)

Edit: find out if those Full Compass prices are per mic or for a pair.

[Shawn]

those are per mic prices.

[kskreider]

those are per mic prices.

Holy shit.

[Shawn]

those are per mic prices.

Holy shit.

yeah the skm140 stereo set is going for $3k now..

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/252052.html

[kskreider]

yeah the skm140 stereo set is going for $3k now..
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/252052.html

Well, it looks like that makes me a successful investor then.   

He could buy skm kit on fleabay for $2600  Sell Andrew the ak40 caps for around a $1000, and then go and buy a pair of ak30 or ak31 capsules too.

[Todd R]

I've never bought from them, but when I was checking about new Neumanns awhile back, avalive.com seemed to have better prices than I found elsewhere.  For instance, you could get a pair of the km130 omni mic sets and then get the lc3ka active cables separately:

http://www.avalive.biz/Neumann-USA-/7051/31440/productDetail.php

[Steve J]

I've gotten very good deals from Jack's Music Store on Neumann gear. When I had to replace one of my active cables, they had the best price hands down.

[SClassical]

Nah, you could buy a km130 or km 131 kit and then just add a pair of active cables.

It is an expensive way to go since it would most likely just be bodies, capsule and cables with no other accessories, but those would probably run you around $2000. (guessing)

Edit: find out if those Full Compass prices are per mic or for a pair.

The KM130 kit does not include the mic body (KM100)? I thought the kit only contain the AK30 capsule,  -10dB pad, clip, windscreen and box.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

the 18x series doesn't allow for remote mounting of the caps. The capsules on thr 183 (omni), 184 (card), and 185(hyper) are fixed. The only way to get them off is to break the microphone.

The bolded part is not accurate.  The KM184 capsule unscrews from the body however the capusule does not have the same mating design as the AK series capsules.  I removed the capsules from my KM184 to see how they mated.  It does not break the microphone.

[kskreider]

OK, one last try then call a retail shop. 

The kits that I linked to are one AK series microphone capsule, one KM100 microphone body (switchable -10db pad built in), one clip that attaches to the km100 body, and probably a wooden box to house it all.  If you want a real "stereo kit" other than the SKM-140 or SKM-120 then you will probably need to build it piecemeal.

The picture below includes a bunch of different capsules a mic body with cap attached and a mic clip.  The capsule unscrew from the body and you can screw a long active cable in between that will separate the mic capsule from the mic body.  Hopefully this answers all of your questions.

[baustin]

the 18x series doesn't allow for remote mounting of the caps. The capsules on thr 183 (omni), 184 (card), and 185(hyper) are fixed. The only way to get them off is to break the microphone.

Any idea what would happen if you unscrewed say the km184 capsule from the body and put it on the body of say a km185?

[John Willett]

the 18x series doesn't allow for remote mounting of the caps. The capsules on thr 183 (omni), 184 (card), and 185(hyper) are fixed. The only way to get them off is to break the microphone.

The bolded part is not accurate.  The KM184 capsule unscrews from the body however the capsule does not have the same mating design as the AK series capsules.  I removed the capsules from my KM184 to see how they mated.  It does not break the microphone.

Yes - it does unscrew - BUT - the acoustic part of the microphone is in the body and the capsule cannot be used on its own.

This is why the new KM-D series have the acoustic part integral with the removeable capsule, so it can be used separately.

[Todd R]

OK, one last try then call a retail shop. 

The kits that I linked to are one AK series microphone capsule, one KM100 microphone body (switchable -10db pad built in), one clip that attaches to the km100 body, and probably a wooden box to house it all.  If you want a real "stereo kit" other than the SKM-140 or SKM-120 then you will probably need to build it piecemeal.

AFAIK, Neumann only sell three types of SKM100 stereo kits:  the SKM140 kit with 2 ak40 card caps, and all the rest of the rest of the stuff (2x km100 mic bodies, 2x lc3ka active cables, STH100 stereo mount, wooden box -- think that's about it); the SKM150 stereo kit, with 2x ak50 hyper caps plus the rest; and the SKM100-MS or whatever they call it, with a single ak40 card cap and a single ak20 fig8 cap so you can do MS recordings.

I don't think they sell a SKM120 kit with 2x ak20 fig8 caps, and they don't sell a skm130 with 2x ak30 omni caps.  So I think the only solution would be to get two of the km130 kits and then get 2 of the lc3ka active cables.

And yep, Jack's Music was the other place I found in my searching that had good Neumann prices.  For new Neumann pricing, I'd start at Jack's Music or avalive.

[kskreider]

I don't think they sell a SKM120 kit with 2x ak20 fig8 caps, and they don't sell a skm130 with 2x ak30 omni caps.  So I think the only solution would be to get two of the km130 kits and then get 2 of the lc3ka active cables.

You are correct, I was obviously thinking about the M/S hence typing 20

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Any idea what would happen if you unscrewed say the km184 capsule from the body and put it on the body of say a km185?

I always wondered that myself.  It makes sense that they would want the bodies designed to work with any of those capsules but I never got a chance to try.

[DSatz]

DarkStarJedi, your photo is left over from Neumann's older arrangement of extension cables which is no longer sold except on special order. The original arrangement involved a cable (LC 3) with a receptacle for the active capsule on one end and a Lemo connector on the output end. The part shown in the lower right corner of your group photo is the old-style KA 100. It screws onto the KM 100 or KM 100 F output module (amplifier/body of the microphone) and offers a Lemo socket which the LC 3 (or other old-style accessories) could plug into. Finally, an LC 2 extension cable, with Lemo connectors on both ends, could be used to extend an extension cable or other accessory in this older type of arrangement.

The newer accessories don't have Lemo connectors at all--they terminate directly in the type of screw-on connector which attaches to a KM 100 or KM 100 F amplifier/body. This makes the arrangement more resistant to RFI, but loses the capability of using an in-line extension cable such as the old LC 2.

The LC 3 KA extension cable, for example, is the replacement for the former combination of LC 3 + KA 100. It is available in 5-meter or 10-meter lengths from stock, or it can be specially ordered in other lengths. However, this is an unbalanced signal connection, so for the sake of maximum RF immunity its length should be kept to a reasonable minimum.

The current-model KVF and SMK goosenecks (whose names all end in "KA" now as well) similarly terminate in a connector that screws directly onto the amplifier body, so the KA 100 is not needed for them, either.

--best regards

[DSatz]

DarkStarJedi, point taken; I probably went too far with all that as far as the original poster is concerned. I was thinking more about other people reading the thread.

--best regards

[John Willett]

Just to confuse things more 

The SR 100 stand still uses the lemo connector as it is the only thing small enough to drop down the tube.

You then need the new KA 100 to terminate.

[DSatz]

With apologies for the side discussion--John, do you have any idea what was gained in redesigning the KA 100 this way? I don't immediately see the point of it.

--best regards

[John Willett]

With apologies for the side discussion--John, do you have any idea what was gained in redesigning the KA 100 this way? I don't immediately see the point of it.

I don't know for certain, but guess that because the Lemo connector is spring-locked, any movement could cause crackling in the audio - and if you hang it in a concert hall the new version is safer and less likely to come apart and fall on the audience.

[shaggy]

yes, what was the part number for the old style KA 100 where the lemo socket is an integral part of the cap assembly?

[John Willett]

yes, what was the part number for the old style KA 100 where the lemo socket is an integral part of the cap assembly?

It was still the KA 100 - just that the new version has the lemo socket on a short cable.