Topic: Edirol R-09 Internal Mic Level

[BCBrower]

Pardon me if this topic has already been discussed but I can't find it.

I have both a Zoom H2 and Edirol R-09.  In terms of the Zoom, on www.oreilly.com there has been a discussion about the interaction of the 3 position (L/M/H) "mic gain" switch and proper volume input level (0-127) for internal mics.  At any of the mic gain positions the Zoom defaults to a "100" setting for input level when the unit is turned on. 

After much discussion there it has been suggested that the input level function is essentially useless (I used the "M" mic gain setting for a live show, noted that the VU meter was a little hotter than I would like, and moved the input level down to "80" to get what I thought was a proper setting to avoid distortion.  When I uploaded the Wav form to Cool Edit the peaks were _clipped_ (flattened) on both channels at -7.49 dB!).  Apparently the level setting did nothing to attenuate analog input distortion, even though the VU reading looked appropriate.   

What 2 Zoom techs instructed me to do is to choose the mic gain position that most closely approximates a VU of -6 to -12dB at the 100 setting.  So, to apply this to the above, rather than lowering the input level to 80 at "M" I should have switched to "L" and left the unit at 100. 

Thus, the function of the input level viz. the mic gain remains unclear, except for perhaps some very minor adjustment capability.  Folks on O'reilly are comparing the Zoom to a point and shoot camera whereby one corrects the input levels in the computer rather than on the unit.

My question is this: Do these same factors apply to the Edirol?  If so, what is a "default" internal mic input level similar to the 100 on the Zoom?

[guysonic]

The 'working' gain adjustment range on the H2 (like the H4) is #100-#127. 

So adjustment <#100 has no effect to keep clipping from happening. 

R-09 adjustments to REC level is different from H2/4 decks, and I have not tried R-09's exteneral mics, but suggest like with H2 to use the 'LOW' mic setting on the R-09 and advance the adjustment to needed for good VU levels.

[BCBrower]

I guess the question I'm asking is: The Zoom has a default "100" level input they want you to use while choosing the proper "mic gain" position (L/M/H) for a VU of -6 to -12 dB.  Is there an equivalent on the Edirol?

[Roving Sign]

Pardon me if this topic has already been discussed but I can't find it.

I have both a Zoom H2 and Edirol R-09.  In terms of the Zoom, on www.oreilly.com there has been a discussion about the interaction of the 3 position (L/M/H) "mic gain" switch and proper volume input level (0-127) for internal mics.  At any of the mic gain positions the Zoom defaults to a "100" setting for input level when the unit is turned on. 

As it should be - remember those 100-127 numbers are just a reference scale.

L/M/H adjusts the gain before it gets to the level control.

You probably always will want the LOW setting for any amped music. Otherwise - as you have found, you will brickwall. Once that occurs - no amount of level reduction will help.

[Roving Sign]

Thus, the function of the input level viz. the mic gain remains unclear, except for perhaps some very minor adjustment capability.  Folks on O'reilly are comparing the Zoom to a point and shoot camera whereby one corrects the input levels in the computer rather than on the unit.

Theoretically - these L/M/H switches should function like an attenuator. Whether that is what they truly do is another question.

[guysonic]

Thus, the function of the input level viz. the mic gain remains unclear, except for perhaps some very minor adjustment capability.  Folks on O'reilly are comparing the Zoom to a point and shoot camera whereby one corrects the input levels in the computer rather than on the unit.

Theoretically - these L/M/H switches should function like an attenuator. Whether that is what they truly do is another question.

They function as 1st stage pre-amp gain control.

[sailcat]

the op's question is actually, "is the level control on the R09 digital or analog?"

the reason for the "only use 100" recommendation on the h2 is that 100 is (roughly) unity gain - no boost or attenuation. the LMH switch is the only way to affect the analog signal -- the rec level control has no effect on the analog signal, so if your incoming signal is clipped, it will stay clipped, and the rec level will only (possibly) mask it. It's like a digital zoom on a camera - usually something to be avoided. anything it does to the signal can be done on your daw in post with better results.

So, anybody know if the R09 rec level control affects the analog stage?

[BCBrower]

OK, thanks for all the input.  However, I'm still a little unclear on the function of the Zoom input level _below_ 100 default.  If the "mic gain" controls the pre-amp stage analog signal, and the level control is only affecting gain from 100-127, what then does 0-99 do?  In other words, if you have set the proper "mic gain" so as to prevent analog distortion, and thus have a VU of, say, -6 to -12, why would you be using the input level below 100?  There would be no need to lower the signal further, no?  By contrast, if you have too "hot" an analog signal by improper choice of "mic gain" then the input level is of little or no use in correcting this according to what has been said in this discussion. 

So, in what circumstance is a level below 100 usable/desirable?