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Author Topic: split AKG D222e placed left and right side of theater  (Read 1308 times)

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Offline JimmieC

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split AKG D222e placed left and right side of theater
« on: October 02, 2023, 10:41:08 AM »
I thought some for you might like to hear split AKG D222e microphones sound like.  The recording is Wolf Bros. at the Mershon recently.  I was suppose to be orchestra center and Mark in the balcony but one of us got moved to the left and right side ADA sections.  We combined them, and I kind of like the sound.

https://archive.org/details/bw2023-09-26.AKGd222e.jimmiec.toaste.flac16   
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Offline goodcooker

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Re: split AKG D222e placed left and right side of theater
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2023, 01:40:21 PM »
I thought some for you might like to hear split AKG D222e microphones sound like.  The recording is Wolf Bros. at the Mershon recently.  I was suppose to be orchestra center and Mark in the balcony but one of us got moved to the left and right side ADA sections.  We combined them, and I kind of like the sound.

https://archive.org/details/bw2023-09-26.AKGd222e.jimmiec.toaste.flac16

Interesting. Theater wide split dynamic mics. I have seen one of these "rocket" mics only once at a studio I did some work in. He used it for brass and woodwinds I think.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: split AKG D222e placed left and right side of theater
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2023, 04:02:24 PM »
Thanks for this.  Digging the decorrelated low frequency and reverberent content that helps provide the big, open, ambient feel, and is a result of the wide split.

This would make for a good foundation for the addition of a center pair or SBD feed, since it's strong points are the stuff in which those other sources tend to be weakest, and vice-versa - those other sources will be stronger in the stuff where this recording is weakest, providing a more solid center with sharp imaging and a feeling of upfront proximity.

That kind of open ambient feel and non monophonic "dimensional" sounding low frequency content ranks high on my personal priority list of what I like to hear in a live performance recording, and why spaced omnis are the foundation of most of my recording setups and my starting point in a mix.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2023, 04:26:02 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: split AKG D222e placed left and right side of theater
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2023, 04:22:44 PM »
Brookie2008's recent recording of Moe at an outdoor park is an example of such an arrangement (wide omni split + directional center pair).

Source: AKG ck62s omnis spaced 20 feet apart at the corners of the soundboard + PAS AKG ck8 short shotguns in the center > Zoom F6.


https://archive.org/details/moe2023-09-01.akg460_ck8_flac24/moe2023-09-01.akgck8.zoomf6.2448.s2t03.flac

Edit- My mistake, the link above is to the ck8 pair alone, here's the link to the ck62 pair alone:
https://archive.org/details/moe2023-09-01.akg460_ck62_flac24

I don't have a public link to the two combined (by brookie), but anyone could download both and play around with doing that.


« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 04:27:14 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline JimmieC

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Re: split AKG D222e placed left and right side of theater
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2023, 11:19:15 AM »
I got my cardioids mixed into the split source and just need to track it.  I'll upload it too.  It not a center style mic but it does sound pretty good too me.

Gutbucket, I'm not seeing the split omnis (ck62) mixed with the shotgun (ck8).  Based on the listed sources, I see the separate uploads but not the mix.  May be, listed on archive incorrectly or I'm not seeing it listed in the description. 
« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 12:05:48 PM by JimmieC »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: split AKG D222e placed left and right side of theater
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2023, 01:38:27 PM »
I look forward to giving your mix of the two a listen. 

I noted that discrepancy too.  From the source descriptions at Archive it certainly reads as those uploads being separate sources.

I was going off of what he and I discussed over PMs, where he provided a lot more information and sent me that link as an example of the two pairs mixed together[edit].. and the resulting recording sounds like a combination of the two to me, as it has more bottom end and low frequency width than I'd expect from the ck8s alone, but I'll try and clarify with him via PM and update here.  Certainly possible that I'm mistaken.

Edit- Sure enough I am mistaken. Checking my previous PM conversation with him, it does appear the archive recordings are the individual pairs.  He did send me a separate link to a mix of the two, not hosted at archive, but I've not had a chance to download and listen to it.   In that case, nice recording using the ck8s alone.

Apologies for my mistake!

Will be interested to hear your mix of your two sources if you post it and not a hassle.



« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 01:45:32 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline audBall

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Re: split AKG D222e placed left and right side of theater
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2023, 02:13:37 PM »
Thanks for sharing. I remember back during the 2009 Phish Hampton reunion, a similar approach was made with two AKG 460-CK2's split across the venue ("Approx 80 foot split"), heavily edited and stitched back together.

https://etreedb.org/shn/97913


edit - Seeing Gut's Moe link above, I swear I recall a show where someone split a pair of Neumann AK30s 20-30ft or more, but I can't find it at the moment.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 02:16:36 PM by audBall »
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Offline JimmieC

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Re: split AKG D222e placed left and right side of theater
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2023, 10:36:38 AM »
For DSO the other week, we ran 3 stand along the rail at the back of the pit: 1) center stand using 2x AKG 461 cardioids (L/R) with ORTF configuration, 2) left stand (20' offset from center) using 1x AKG d222e cardioids and 1x AKG392 omni (L) with point-at-stack configuration, and 3) right stand (20' offset from center) using 1x AKG d222e cardioids and 1x AKG392 omni (R) with point-at-stack configuration.  I really like this array.  Amazingly, the center mics in ORTF configuration even had a lot separation in the audience noise.   I have it upload to Archive at: https://archive.org/details/dso2023-11-19.AKGwideMix/

I still need to finish up the Wolf Bros. mentioned in original post and get it uploaded.  However, I wish we had a center stand at Wolf Bros.
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Offline JimmieC

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Re: split AKG D222e placed left and right side of theater
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2023, 10:20:39 AM »
I'm curious if anyone had a chance to listened to the DSO recording using an array of mic stands (left, center, and right), and what y'all thought?

For me, I kind of like the array recording because the crowd noise is not so distracting.  There were people all around the 3 stands that were excited (which I kind of like), overly excited, obnoxious, talking, etc., and it appears to not be as noticeable when mixed (summed / stacked) together.  Perhaps, the distractions are not as noticeable because it is in only 1-2 channels and not amplified when mixed with the other sources (may be improved signal to noise ratio).

Next time, I think we need to work on getting our real-time recoding levels matching better.  I had the right stand too hot compared to the center and left stands.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: split AKG D222e placed left and right side of theater
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2023, 05:32:09 PM »
I've not yet (hope to this weekend), but your comment about how nearby audience is handled rings very true to my experience.  I think its that nearby chatter is sufficiently only in one channel or the other, and thus sufficiently decorrelated such that the individual voices don't image sharply between speakers or headphones but are spread out diffusely.  While the PA and stage being more equidistant to both microphones is more closely level and phase-correlated, providing good contrast and retaining more focus on the music.

DSO here tonight..
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

 

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