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Author Topic: Mono > Stereo via SHEPPi Spatial Enhancer plugin (samples included)  (Read 846 times)

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Offline Chanher

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Last minute classical concert last night, I thought what the heck and grabbed my mono Zoom F2 recorder and it's little omni lav on my way out the door. I'm well aware that mono taping is essentially taper sacrilege, but a recent TS post about a "Stereo Enhancer" plugin caught my eye and I've been curious ever since. Below are 2 minute samples of the unedited mono recording, and the same sample but with the SHEPPi Spatial Enhancer plugin "Max Ambience" preset enabled. No other editing performed. Recorded at 32fp/48, dithered to 16/44.1 and flac'd.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/7qxkohyrvkk8ymwzv20se/h?rlkey=75v08qcf202obeg2f8k7vbtxe&dl=0

EDIT: here's a link to an explanation of the plugin
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/sheppi_spatial_enhancer_by_open_ambience_project

EDIT 2: Mic (not mics) was pointed straight forward in a mesh style trucker hat (turned backwards) and I was DFC about 6 rows back, probably 25 ft. from the conductor.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2023, 01:20:44 PM by Chanher »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Mono > Stereo via SHEPPi Spatial Enhancer plugin (samples included)
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2023, 04:21:36 PM »
Interesting.  I've wondered about use of things like this for replacing a bad channel or drop out.

Sounds better than I expected during the musical passage, but the artifacts during the applause at the end are pretty bad. 

Applause is a great test signal!  I always listen for it when assessing a recording.  Easy to immediately hear timbre issues and a lot more.  It's dynamic, impulsive yet sustained, discrete over a short time-scale yet distributed over a long time-scale, both proximal and diffuse..

Mic (not mics) was pointed straight forward in a mesh style trucker hat (turned backwards) and I was DFC about 6 rows back, probably 25 ft. from the conductor.

Definitely modern era "anything goes" classical concert attire!
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Mono > Stereo via SHEPPi Spatial Enhancer plugin (samples included)
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2023, 05:30:34 PM »
Veering slightly OT..
I've wondered about use of things like this for replacing a bad channel or drop out.

What I really dream about is a routine that analyzes the signal relationship between two or more channels when everything is working correctly, and can use that information to partially recreate one channel if it's missing or bad, based on the current signal found in the other available channel(s) and the measured relationships between them.  The more channels available, the more information from analysis of the relationships between them, as long as all the channels involved are at least somewhat/somehow related to each other in some way as would be the case for any of our recordings, and the more robust the recreation should be able to be.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Mono > Stereo via SHEPPi Spatial Enhancer plugin (samples included)
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2023, 08:36:43 PM »
I've got another example of the same problem, also from last night. Accidentally recorded mono. Original mono and a manual faux stereo in the dropbox below.

Any thoughts?
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/8thyl21mdw54jhagfew2o/h?rlkey=rs2wi9zi1rk1jax2r121cbpyp&dl=0

That classical stereo sample sounds pretty solid. Way better than the stock protools or waves plugin I have!

Offline Chanher

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Re: Mono > Stereo via SHEPPi Spatial Enhancer plugin (samples included)
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2023, 09:25:26 PM »
Interesting.  I've wondered about use of things like this for replacing a bad channel or drop out.

Sounds better than I expected during the musical passage, but the artifacts during the applause at the end are pretty bad. 

Applause is a great test signal!  I always listen for it when assessing a recording.  Easy to immediately hear timbre issues and a lot more.  It's dynamic, impulsive yet sustained, discrete over a short time-scale yet distributed over a long time-scale, both proximal and diffuse..

These were my first thoughts. Pleasantly surprised at the music parts but the clapping immediately caught my ear with some weird phasing going on.

I recently stealthed another classical performance using (2) at853Rx's cards on the side of my head and a quick AB comparison revealed to me that the true stereo recording was much more full, open, and rich sounding compared to the faux stereo. It's actually a terrible comparsion since it's different mics, recorders, performers, and venue but I was sitting in very similar spots in relation to the stage. Classical music might not be the best genre of music to try this with.

I'm curious how this would sound on a stealth stack recording of loud amplified music. Some of my fave stealth recordings are just stack recordings. I don't want to encourage people to openly abandon our beautiful stereo techniques (this is probably best suited for accidental mono recordings) but this was EASILY the simplest, most stress free stealth job I've ever done (The F2 is tiiiny). There's always a handful of times when I decide not to record due to varying complexities and this entire setup could change that for me.

Definitely modern era "anything goes" classical concert attire!
Fortunately this was a University affiliated performance and there were plenty of students there. I do intend to stealth more classical and I need to find a different hat or setup. :hmmm:
Line Audio CM4 / AT853Rx (c,h) / Studio Projects C4 MKII (c,h,o)
Sound Devices MP-2 / bm2p+ Edirol UA-5
Zoom F3 / F6 / Marantz Oade Warm Mod PMD661 / Tascam DR-70D

Offline Chanher

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Re: Mono > Stereo via SHEPPi Spatial Enhancer plugin (samples included)
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2023, 09:32:06 PM »
I've got another example of the same problem, also from last night. Accidentally recorded mono. Original mono and a manual faux stereo in the dropbox below.

Any thoughts?
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/8thyl21mdw54jhagfew2o/h?rlkey=rs2wi9zi1rk1jax2r121cbpyp&dl=0

That classical stereo sample sounds pretty solid. Way better than the stock protools or waves plugin I have!

Just did a quick listen and your manual stereo definitely feels more open; the mono is kinda flat and dare I say it "mono-ish". What were some of things you did?
Line Audio CM4 / AT853Rx (c,h) / Studio Projects C4 MKII (c,h,o)
Sound Devices MP-2 / bm2p+ Edirol UA-5
Zoom F3 / F6 / Marantz Oade Warm Mod PMD661 / Tascam DR-70D

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Mono > Stereo via SHEPPi Spatial Enhancer plugin (samples included)
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2023, 10:16:10 PM »
I've got another example of the same problem, also from last night. Accidentally recorded mono. Original mono and a manual faux stereo in the dropbox below.

Any thoughts?
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/8thyl21mdw54jhagfew2o/h?rlkey=rs2wi9zi1rk1jax2r121cbpyp&dl=0

That classical stereo sample sounds pretty solid. Way better than the stock protools or waves plugin I have!

Just did a quick listen and your manual stereo definitely feels more open; the mono is kinda flat and dare I say it "mono-ish". What were some of things you did?

I duplicated the track, hard panned, and then shifted one of them over about 30ms until it felt more open, but before I could really hear it. Then I used a plugin (Vitamin) to bring the lows and low mids back to the center to eliminate that weird super stereo effect you sometimes get with the phase shift. Think it came out decently well

Offline Chanher

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Re: Mono > Stereo via SHEPPi Spatial Enhancer plugin (samples included)
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2023, 11:11:57 PM »
Nice work man 👍
Line Audio CM4 / AT853Rx (c,h) / Studio Projects C4 MKII (c,h,o)
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Mono > Stereo via SHEPPi Spatial Enhancer plugin (samples included)
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2023, 12:16:45 PM »
I duplicated the track, hard panned, and then shifted one of them over about 30ms until it felt more open, but before I could really hear it. Then I used a plugin (Vitamin) to bring the lows and low mids back to the center to eliminate that weird super stereo effect you sometimes get with the phase shift. Think it came out decently well

That works quite well.  I do hear the delay on the transients dragging to the right, and it would be best if that could be avoided (maybe by using a bit less time-shift/delay, 30ms is around the threshold of becoming obvious to my ear), but it sounds natural like a slap echo off a side wall, making it natural enough.  Good idea recentering things by frequency range.

You might try using the original mono channel as Mid channel and the time-shifted/delayed channel as a Side channel.  That will make the delay manifest symmetrically out to both sides from the center, and make the stereo effect more symetrical in the mids and highs.  May still need to use the Vitamin plugin to recenter low frequency content though, because although the delay will be symmetrical, the polarity inversion applied to the right half of the Side channel is likely to cause low frequency attenuation on that side when mixed with the Mid channel.

I recently stealthed another classical performance using (2) at853Rx's cards on the side of my head and a quick AB comparison revealed to me that the true stereo recording was much more full, open, and rich sounding compared to the faux stereo. It's actually a terrible comparsion since it's different mics, recorders, performers, and venue but I was sitting in very similar spots in relation to the stage. Classical music might not be the best genre of music to try this with.

I'm curious how this would sound on a stealth stack recording of loud amplified music. [..]

Yeah, real stereo ambience always sounds richer to me.  Sometimes surprisingly so.  Its very easy to forget by how much when comparing the pseudo-stereo to mono.  But producing good pseudo stereo is worthwhile as an improvement over mono as long as it sounds natural.

Classical may be one of the better responding genres of music for the application of this because it tends to be strongly dominated by diffuse reverberant room sound, which is easier to fake with pseudo stereo techniques than strong direct-arrival stereo imaging that's far more discrete and stereo position specific.

I suspect it would work nicely for a stack tape that would benefit from additional stereo interest and ambience.  A while back I posted about stack taping using two microphones oriented such that one captures the PA stack as normal, and rather than the other being oriented the same way and thus generating little stereo interest, positioning the other microphone on the opposite side of the taper facing away from the stack and toward the audience and room.  The idea being to reduce pickup of the stack in that channel as much as practical and maximize pickup of audience and ambiance in that channel.  Then use the stack facing channel as Mid and the room facing channel as Side.  Again, you'd probably need to recenter the low frequency content due to cancellation on the right side.

Quote
I do intend to stealth more classical and I need to find a different hat or setup. :hmmm:

PM me if you like for discussion on that.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Mono > Stereo via SHEPPi Spatial Enhancer plugin (samples included)
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2023, 12:21:02 PM »
You might try using the original mono channel as Mid channel and the time-shifted/delayed channel as a Side channel.  That will make the delay manifest symmetrically out to both sides from the center, and make the stereo effect more symetrical in the mids and highs.  May still need to use the Vitamin plugin to recenter low frequency content though, because although the delay will be symmetrical, the polarity inversion applied to the right half of the Side channel is likely to cause low frequency attenuation on that side when mixed with the Mid channel.

Interesting thought. Will try that

And yeah, I hear that transient pull. The delay is sub 30ms because it was too obvious at that point. Probably closer to 22-25
« Last Edit: October 13, 2023, 12:24:51 PM by opsopcopolis »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Mono > Stereo via SHEPPi Spatial Enhancer plugin (samples included)
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2023, 12:24:21 PM »


So tiny!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

 

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