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Author Topic: Duel use of mics please forgiven me!  (Read 975 times)

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Offline Wolfedawg

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Duel use of mics please forgiven me!
« on: December 02, 2023, 11:40:38 PM »
Listen - I know this is a dumb question but please stay with me.

I would like to get a solid pair of mics to begin my recording journey. I really also need a great room Mike for my 20 x 17 studio where I have a drum set and do some other recording with guitars and bass and keys.

I know that the Mike’s use are very Omni directional and specific to the purpose as listed here I understand the reasoning I guess my question is, how would the microphones work as either an overhead over the drums or as a room, mic, or recording guitar? Hopefully this makes sense, but I don’t know how much I will record out, but if I could also use them in my little studio, it would be easier to justify.

I know the solution would probably be to get separate mics for each application, but the way I am, I would rather have a really nice set that I can use possibly for multiple functions. If I had around 2k to spend on a couple mics, what should I be looking for?

Interested in mk21/22 possibly…

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Duel use of mics please forgiven me!
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2023, 12:19:54 AM »
For the dual application I would most likely recommend getting a pair of either small or large diaphragm condensers and then maybe one dynamic mic. The condensers could absolutely be used for both live recording or drum overheads, mic-ing both acoustic and electric guitars and other instruments, and the dynamic can be used to supplement that in the studio (I don't find dynamic mics to be great for taping applications.)

I'm sure there will be a million opinions as to what to buy as everybody here has their own favorite pair of mics, but if I was prioritizing studio work, I'd probably lean towards something like a pair of AKG 414s (or whatever the new austrian audio equivalent is) and then probably just a shure SM57 or 58. All very flexible, workhorse mics, and the 414s have the flexibility of changeable polar patterns

Offline goodcooker

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Re: Duel use of mics please forgiven me!
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2023, 11:47:40 AM »

A pair of mk21 or 22 would be a great choice but you are probably not going to find a used pair in your $2k budget. New the capsules alone are $1800.

A pair of mics with available interchangeable polar pattern capsules would give you the most flexibility so you are headed down the right path looking at modular SDC.

If it was me I'd get a pair of Peluso CEMC6 mics which are available new as a pair with cardioid capsules and accessories in a flight case for under $800. New matched pairs of the other capsules - subcardioid, hypercardioid and omni - are available for just over $200 a pair. That leaves some room in your budget for other stuff that you are going to need if you don't have it already. Maybe a good quality dynamic mic or two to add to your other mics.

The Peluso mics "punch above their weight" and compare favorably sound and build quality wise to Schoeps, Neumann and other high end mics but at a much lower price point.

Some other brands you may want to look into - ADK, AKG, Neumann (the TLM103 can be had for under $1k used or the KM100 series shows up used sometimes), Mojave, Roswell (I have a friend with a very nice home studio and he reaches for his mini67 more than any other mic), there's shitloads of choices. Narrow down whether you want small or large diaphragm mics and go from there. Multiple patterns - whether switchable on a LD mic or swappable on an SD mic gets you flexibility.
Line Audio CM3/OM1 || MBHO KA500 hyper>PFA|| ADK A51 type IV || AKG C522XY
Oade Warm Mod and Presence+ Mod UA5s || Aerco MP2(needs help) || Neve Portico 5012
SD Mixpre6 || Oade Concert Mod DR100mkii

pocket sized - CA11 cards > SP SB10 > Korg MR1 (homebrew battery mod)

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Offline ol' dirty taper

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Re: Duel use of mics please forgiven me!
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2023, 12:45:57 PM »
mk21s would be ideal, however to reach within your budget, check out a Beyerdynamic MC930 stereo pair or a pair of Microtech Gefell M300s. I'd possibly lean towards the MGs, incredible high and low end - I often pair the M300s with my MK21s. The MC930s can SOMETIMES sound a bit brittle or plasticy on high pitch string instruments, but they sound incredible on drums as overheads and great with guitars.

Line Audio OM1 or C3/4 would also be great options well within budget.
Mic : Schoeps MK21 | Microtech Gefell M300 | Beyer MC950 MC930 MC910 CK930 | Line Audio OM1 | DPA 4061 | Naiant X-X Omni | Beyer TG L34C | AT831s
Pre : Aerco MP-2 | Naiant Littlebox
Deck : SD MixPre 10 II | SD MixPre 6 II | Sony PCM-A10 | Zoom F3
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Duel use of mics please forgiven me!
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2023, 01:48:53 PM »
Line Audio OM1 or C3/4 would also be great options well within budget.

Enthusiastic second on this recommendation! Hit the Team Line Audio link in my signature to give you an idea of how great they are. The other mics mentioned in this thread are great too, but the value Line Audio brings has to be heard to be believed.

I would buy one pair each of CM4 and OM1, along with the matching shock mounts. Buy them with confidence from JP at No Hype Audio. They are marked as waitlist right now, but if you email JP he'll give you the scoop on what the waiting time would be. At current exchange rate, those four mics with shocks and shipping would only be $620 and will blow away most anything else near their price. I'm fortunate to now own some outrageously expensive mics, but I still use my Line Audio sets. I'm running 4 of them tomorrow, in fact.

http://nohypeaudio.com/lineaudioproducts.htm

If you do go for a more expensive option, I absolutely would go for interchangeable capsule modular small-diaphragm condensers as Goodcooker recommends. I would steer away from large diaphragm multi-pattern mics, particularly if you are going to do concert / ensemble recording. LDCs usually have lower self noise, but their off-axis response is not nearly as smooth as SDCs which really becomes important with stereo arrays commonly used for concert recording (or drum overheads, for that matter). Their figure-8 and omni patterns also tend to be a bit compromised compared to the single-diaphragm dedicated mics in those patterns, though they still can be very good. A friend owns a pair of 414s and I have helped him learn how to use them. They are legendary mics but just not my preference.
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Duel use of mics please forgiven me!
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2023, 01:51:24 PM »
One thing I'll add to the OP is that if you are using omnis in that small of a room, you really should invest in some good acoustic treatment to tame any strong reflections that may be present.
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.
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Offline goodcooker

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Re: Duel use of mics please forgiven me!
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2023, 12:15:57 AM »

I stand corrected - there's a pair of mk21/cmc6 in the yard sale right now for $2100 or best offer

no affiliation
Line Audio CM3/OM1 || MBHO KA500 hyper>PFA|| ADK A51 type IV || AKG C522XY
Oade Warm Mod and Presence+ Mod UA5s || Aerco MP2(needs help) || Neve Portico 5012
SD Mixpre6 || Oade Concert Mod DR100mkii

pocket sized - CA11 cards > SP SB10 > Korg MR1 (homebrew battery mod)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City
"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Offline SMsound

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Re: Duel use of mics please forgiven me!
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2023, 03:22:42 AM »
Schoeps had Black Friday stereo matched pairs of CMC6 + MK4 cardioid for $2k even.

If not Schoeps, then I would get a pair of Line Audio CM4 for a grand total of ~$300/pair. Nice on drums in XY (I haven't tried but know multiple audio engineers who are a lot more pro than me and who have done this), and everyone is using them as mains now.
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Offline ol' dirty taper

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Re: Duel use of mics please forgiven me!
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2023, 12:04:21 PM »
...I would get a pair of Line Audio CM4 for a grand total of ~$300/pair. Nice on drums in XY (I haven't tried but know multiple audio engineers who are a lot more pro than me and who have done this), and everyone is using them as mains now.

My go to lately for a large Steinway grand piano have been spaced OM1s. Mains I will use MK2 or 21s for orchestra type recording.
Mic : Schoeps MK21 | Microtech Gefell M300 | Beyer MC950 MC930 MC910 CK930 | Line Audio OM1 | DPA 4061 | Naiant X-X Omni | Beyer TG L34C | AT831s
Pre : Aerco MP-2 | Naiant Littlebox
Deck : SD MixPre 10 II | SD MixPre 6 II | Sony PCM-A10 | Zoom F3
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Offline breakonthru

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Re: Duel use of mics please forgiven me!
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2023, 06:28:21 PM »
Schoeps had Black Friday stereo matched pairs of CMC6 + MK4 cardioid for $2k even.

If not Schoeps, then I would get a pair of Line Audio CM4 for a grand total of ~$300/pair. Nice on drums in XY (I haven't tried but know multiple audio engineers who are a lot more pro than me and who have done this), and everyone is using them as mains now.
wow were there any cmc1 packages?

Offline SMsound

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Re: Duel use of mics please forgiven me!
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2023, 07:04:08 PM »
Schoeps had Black Friday stereo matched pairs of CMC6 + MK4 cardioid for $2k even.
wow were there any cmc1 packages?
No -- the only deal was CMC6 + MK4 stereo matched set, no foams, in a smaller box for $2k even for their 75th anniversary black friday. It looked tempting, but I'm personally hunting for CMC1/CMC1L and different caps... I think a few people bought a lot of those sets though.
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Offline checht

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Re: Duel use of mics please forgiven me!
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2023, 07:30:38 PM »
How about the Schoeps mk5 capsule, which gets you card and omni? That's what I'd get as first cap if starting from scratch.

Or the Telefunken pencil condenser kit with multi caps, that looks like fun...

Agree strongly with recommendation to stick with small diaphragm mics for sure.
Schoeps MK41 x 2, MK22 x 2; Vanguard V1s matched pair; Niaint x8
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Duel use of mics please forgiven me!
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2023, 10:09:16 PM »
Schoeps had Black Friday stereo matched pairs of CMC6 + MK4 cardioid for $2k even.

If not Schoeps, then I would get a pair of Line Audio CM4 for a grand total of ~$300/pair. Nice on drums in XY (I haven't tried but know multiple audio engineers who are a lot more pro than me and who have done this), and everyone is using them as mains now.

That Schoeps deal sounds great!
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.
- Gustav Mahler

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Offline checht

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Re: Duel use of mics please forgiven me!
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2023, 01:59:18 PM »
Used Telefunken set for $1,000 in the yard sale:
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=203908.0
Schoeps MK41 x 2, MK22 x 2; Vanguard V1s matched pair; Niaint x8
Schoeps kcy5, nbob actives
Naiant PFA 60v, PFA 48v, IPA
Sound Devices MP-6II; Sony PCM-A10

Recordings at LMA

 

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