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Author Topic: Ceiling Mount Considerations?  (Read 2495 times)

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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2024, 01:09:58 PM »
Here’s my first attempt.  Not bad for a $200 matched pair. 
https://archive.org/details/rb2024-01-10.InsideOut_s7
cool. +T
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Offline al w.

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2024, 01:43:43 PM »
Not bad at all! I believe they're cards.

Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2024, 02:47:29 PM »
Not bad at all! I believe they're cards.
Yep, cardioid.  Would probably prefer wide card or maybe omni, but wanted to try these first since I could get them for $3/month at Sweetwater.  Was looking for a second hand pair of Line Audio CM3. 
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/insideoutrecording
Mics: AKG ck61/ck63 (nBob actives, Naiant PFA) | AKG 568 | CA-14 omni | Studio Projects B3
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Zoom F3 | Roland R-07
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Offline wehideandseek

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2024, 09:31:28 PM »
Sounds good HCC. Can you please take a pic of how you mounted the mics (or circle area in first pix)?
After 30 years recording in local rooms this'll be the year for me to mount in at least four of 'em so this & the other thread from last year (https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=203180.0) are of great benefit.
Thank you!
r
« Last Edit: January 20, 2024, 09:33:45 PM by wehideandseek »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2024, 08:08:24 PM »
Just circled around to listen..

Very nice.  Sounds really good.

If refining further.. Maybe angle the mics inward, pointing them toward the center rear of the stage, but only to the extent that the PA speakers remain fully within the good smooth-response front coverage angle of the pattern.  That should help with a touch more drum transient clarity without making the drums significantly louder. And might otherwise beef up the acoustic center a bit.  I imagine the line audios may be able to do all that even better, with a bit more openness, and a more evenly distributed ambience.

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Online Top Hat

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2024, 10:58:21 PM »
Not bad at all! I believe they're cards.
Yep, cardioid.  Would probably prefer wide card or maybe omni, but wanted to try these first since I could get them for $3/month at Sweetwater.  Was looking for a second hand pair of Line Audio CM3.

Did you leave the mounts there? When i go visit my brother in Dallas i frequent DEARTCO and know John is a stand up guy for tapers.

Offline Chanher

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2024, 12:59:42 AM »
I am just seeing the update to this, listening now and that's very cool. Makes me want to mount some mics in a venue! Really upfront sound, good mix of instruments and then when the crowd kicks you can hear the room as well. When you get a chance, let us know how low you were able to get them (in relation to the PA speakers). According to your info file, looks like 25 ft apart, 15 ft off the ground, and 6 ft from the speakers.
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Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2024, 04:46:50 AM »
Sounds good HCC. Can you please take a pic of how you mounted the mics (or circle area in first pix)?
After 30 years recording in local rooms this'll be the year for me to mount in at least four of 'em so this & the other thread from last year (https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=203180.0) are of great benefit.
Thank you!
r
Here are 2 pics with doodles to help answer your question.  The blue lines (circled in yellow) are where I hung the mics from the rafter (15' high).  The rafter is approx. 6' from the speakers.  I ran the cables down the rafter to the wall and back a metal beam that goes down the wall.  Have a couple heavy duty magnetic hooks on the beam.  Hang my coat and bag (other yellow circle).  Plug in the F3, hit record, walk away until show is over. 
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/insideoutrecording
Mics: AKG ck61/ck63 (nBob actives, Naiant PFA) | AKG 568 | CA-14 omni | Studio Projects B3
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Zoom F3 | Roland R-07
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2024, 04:52:49 AM »
Not bad at all! I believe they're cards.
Yep, cardioid.  Would probably prefer wide card or maybe omni, but wanted to try these first since I could get them for $3/month at Sweetwater.  Was looking for a second hand pair of Line Audio CM3.

Did you leave the mounts there? When i go visit my brother in Dallas i frequent DEARTCO and know John is a stand up guy for tapers.

Yes, they will stay up there as long as the venue is open.  The cables hanging on the side wall between the cabinent and the steel beam on the wall.  Blue tape in on the right channel xlr.  There should be some metal hooks there to hang your bag and coat.  See the 3 yellow circles in this photo.  The top 2 are obviously where the mics are hanging, and the 3rd lower one is where the cables are hanging.  Feel free to hit me up if/when your coming to a show there.  May want to bring a set of splitters, just in case.
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/insideoutrecording
Mics: AKG ck61/ck63 (nBob actives, Naiant PFA) | AKG 568 | CA-14 omni | Studio Projects B3
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Zoom F3 | Roland R-07
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2024, 05:00:19 AM »
I am just seeing the update to this, listening now and that's very cool. Makes me want to mount some mics in a venue! Really upfront sound, good mix of instruments and then when the crowd kicks you can hear the room as well. When you get a chance, let us know how low you were able to get them (in relation to the PA speakers). According to your info file, looks like 25 ft apart, 15 ft off the ground, and 6 ft from the speakers.

That is pretty much it.  In a perfect world the mics would be hanging a bit lower, buy I'm trying to keep them tucked out of the way from everything and everyone. 
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/insideoutrecording
Mics: AKG ck61/ck63 (nBob actives, Naiant PFA) | AKG 568 | CA-14 omni | Studio Projects B3
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Zoom F3 | Roland R-07
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2024, 05:08:08 AM »
Just circled around to listen..

Very nice.  Sounds really good.

If refining further.. Maybe angle the mics inward, pointing them toward the center rear of the stage, but only to the extent that the PA speakers remain fully within the good smooth-response front coverage angle of the pattern.  That should help with a touch more drum transient clarity without making the drums significantly louder. And might otherwise beef up the acoustic center a bit.  I imagine the line audios may be able to do all that even better, with a bit more openness, and a more evenly distributed ambience.

I thought about angling them from "outside-in" a bit like you suggest.  I'll give it a try next time I'm up there.  With the low ceilings and a fun-lovin crowd, my goal is to cut out as much crowd as possible.  The room sound in this venue adds little bucause of the size and low ceilings.  It would include mucho chatter and such. That is also the reason I have started with cards.  I may add a center omni to see how that works, but then I need to bring my MixPre-6, with sort of defeats the purpose of the small, compact setup of the F3. 
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/insideoutrecording
Mics: AKG ck61/ck63 (nBob actives, Naiant PFA) | AKG 568 | CA-14 omni | Studio Projects B3
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Zoom F3 | Roland R-07
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2024, 05:15:35 AM »
Alright, so I have now recorded 3 different shows with this room setup.  I'm pretty dang happy, and to be honest, I may not do another thing to it.  It is just simple as it gets.  Two matched budget SD mics, cables running down the side wall along a steel beam, and magnetic hooks for my coat and bag with a Zoom F3 to plug in and walk away from. 

Dopapod
https://archive.org/details/dopapod2024-01-25.InsideOut_sE7_

Kitchen Dwellers
https://archive.org/details/KD2024-01-26.InsideOut_sE7

Rosebud (Tribute to Jerry Garcia Band)
https://archive.org/details/rb2024-01-10.InsideOut_sE7
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/insideoutrecording
Mics: AKG ck61/ck63 (nBob actives, Naiant PFA) | AKG 568 | CA-14 omni | Studio Projects B3
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Zoom F3 | Roland R-07
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

Offline wehideandseek

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2024, 09:41:26 PM »
Thanks for the edited images. Looking forward to the actual clamp & mic pics in the RigPix thread  :cheers:
"Situation gets rough, then i start to panic..."

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2024, 10:17:56 AM »
Nice setup!  Clean, easy and effective.

Thanks for posting the photos. Will give the other recordings a listen.

Maybe angle the mics inward, pointing them toward the center rear of the stage, but only to the extent that the PA speakers remain fully within the good smooth-response front coverage angle of the pattern.  That should help with a touch more drum transient clarity without making the drums significantly louder. And might otherwise beef up the acoustic center a bit.

I thought about angling them from "outside-in" a bit like you suggest.  I'll give it a try next time I'm up there.  With the low ceilings and a fun-lovin crowd, my goal is to cut out as much crowd as possible.  The room sound in this venue adds little bucause of the size and low ceilings.  It would include mucho chatter and such. That is also the reason I have started with cards.  I may add a center omni to see how that works, but then I need to bring my MixPre-6, with sort of defeats the purpose of the small, compact setup of the F3.

As long as you have easy access to do it, I'd definitely try some inward angling as that may make for a nice refinement without dramatically changing things.  Simple enough and may add just enough on-stage direct sound in a way similar to what a center mic would be intended to do.

The center omni is an interesting idea and will be an interesting thing to try, even if you ultimately decide against it (keeping things simple in using the F3 is a perfectly good practical reason to do so).  If you find you really like what it does you could leave it up and then have the option to use it or not, depending on who's playing and what you want to carry in.

If you do try it, I'd hang it closer to the stage than the cardioid pair - probably from the same ceiling truss that the PA speakers are hung from which places it directly over the front of the stage, or maybe further in over center stage.  Which position is better may depend on the performance.  Over center stage will get it a bit farther away from the audience and act more like a drum overhead, while over the front of stage may a better option for things like acoustic instruments up front, solo singer songwriter type stuff.  If you like what it does but find it adds too much audience, a cardioid from the truss with the PA on angled pointed down toward the back of stage should reduce audience contribution by ~6dB or so.  Only one way to really know. 

Either way (angling the cardioid pair, adding a center mic) the intent is reinforcement of the center of the image with increased pickup of on-stage sound - in particular dynamic transients which never really translate through the PA and make it feel like being on stage or right up front.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2024, 10:20:16 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline cd2go

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2024, 09:34:19 PM »
It's my dream to hang mics at a venue I frequent. There is something so appealing about the ease of plugging in and relaxing knowing that room mics are doing their thing in the best spot. I often get a soundboard feed and onstage when allowed, but omnis in front of the PA would really fill it out, and would be a great primary source when required. Cool to see it worked out for you, congrats! Lots of good info here to refer to if I ever work up the courage to give it a go. Recordings sound fantastic  :coolguy:

 

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