Topic: Sennheiser Active Setup - MKH 8000 Part II

[landshark]

No kidding?  Cool! 

I wonder if they were always planning on making one, or if they're responding to people's experiences with these mics.  Any idea of when they might be available?

Thanks John!

Mike

[John Willett]

No kidding?  Cool! 

I wonder if they were always planning on making one, or if they're responding to people's experiences with these mics.  Any idea of when they might be available?

Thanks John!

Mike

They were always planning to make one.

The current MKH 8000 series modules are just the start of a larger series.

The MZD 8000 AES42 digital module is imminent as well.

I don't know any definite dates yet but I think after Easter.

[landshark]

OK, so I think I figured my problem out with brickwalling my Korg using my MKH 8040's.

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,119072.0.html

Basically, at 120 db, with an efficiency of 20 mv/Pa, the 8040's put out about -6 dBu, which can easily stomp the pre's on my MR1000 (max input -16 dBu).  Now, since I can still hear, I'm guessing the actual sound was something south of 120 db, but even so, clipping's certainly possible. 

Interestingly, the 20 mV/Pa is the same sensitivity given for my AKG 481's, and I've paired them with the Korg in the past without problem. 

One question I have - those measurements are done at a reference frequency, such as 1khz, correct?  That being said, if the MKH's are more sensitive to low frequencies, those low frequencies would result in higher energy levels all else being equal, correct/  So it could be the MKH's low end sensitivtiy that's driving the energy levels too high and clipping, correct? 

The reason I ask is because I'd rather use a high pass filter (which I hear is on the way) rather than a -10 db pad, which is what I'm using now...

Thanks!

Mike

[CQBert]

Even a loud show in most places will never exceed 102 or 105 db's for more than a moment or two...

If you are outside the noise ordinances restrict it and most clubs had strict limits on db levels as well.

So, now you are back to 'stated' information from manufactures - weather is it Sennheiser, AKG, or Korg all are usually pretty close however if one was going to be wrong my money would be on the Korg.  Both Senn and AKG are microphone manufacturers, the Korg units are new and when you look at even the basic spec it tells you that it cannot handle the output of a 'hot' high end mic at certain levels.  It is reasonable to expect that that input does not necessarily move on an accurate sliding scale and that even moderate levels could cause the issue you are experiencing.  Have you consulted a Korg owners forum to see if other have had similar issues with 'hot' mics?

The frequency issue is also somewhat valid here I believe... If you look at the frequency response curves of the AKG and Senn I think you will see more substantial bottom end coming from the 8040's.  If they are challenging the Korgs' actual frequency response levels as well as from a high input level you may have a recipe for disaster.

It sounds to me that a pre-amp in front of the Korg is in order...

Silly thought... have you considered moving to something like a 702 and dumping the Korg/MP-2 and settling in on a one box solution or is the DSD recording important to you?

I love the sound of my 8040's and like the fact that the low end is there and full... you can always reduce in post but it is nearly impossible to increase.  It is not only the bass notes that they seem to capture so well, but the humm of the amps, distortion that is down there and for me I like that ...

Keep us posted - this is an interesting evolution...

CQBert

[landshark]

Hi CQB -

Yup, an SD 722 (or better, a 744) would be nice.  I have an SD MixPre (Shure rebranded) and I love the build quality and preamps.  Just awesome.  What finally brought me to the MR1000?

 - DSD
 - ~$900 for the Korg with Busman mods on preamp vs. ~$1,500 to $2,000 to go SD
 - AA batteries on the Korg = easy replacement
 - Korg is slightly smaller / lighter (my entire rig, including clamp and mic clips fits into one of these: Size large
http://www.mountainsmith.com/products.asp?productId=137&categoryId=13&subCategoryId=12&subCategory2Id=0)

But believe me it was a painful decision.  FWIW, when I run a pre-, I run my MixPre and it sounds great.  I recently did a 4ch plus SBD where I did the 8040's > MR1000 and my 483's > MixPre > MR1, and both came out good with the Senns a lot meatier on the low end. 

And several other posters here mention the need to use an attenuator with the MR1000 - their pre's unfortunately leave something to be desired for headroom.....   

The journey continues!

Mike

[CQBert]

Good enough....

Sounds like it has been solved...  Korg Pre's just not up to the task for this particular mic...

Onward - sounds like a nice rig though...

I am 100% with you on the $'s - I am trying to jump forward and just cannot afford what I want/need.

Cheers !

CQBert

[kbergend]

Finally got to spend some time in the field with my new rig (Senn 8040 > remote cables > Oade Concert PMD661), in fact it got quite a workout this past weekend!  A little bigger than my old stealth rig (AT943 > BB > Oade PMD620), but still very compact and it sure does sound pretty!



I can confirm that the combo will run for at least 8 hours on a fresh set of Energizer lithium AAs, and generally I'm very happy with the results in a variety of recording situations.  I used a PNY 16Gb SDHC card for all these shows and didn't have any problems, although I was only recording at 24/44.1.  A couple of people have expressed interest in hearing samples, so here are a few 24-bit FLACs.  These were all recorded with the attenuation setting at -12dB, no editing other than fades and adding some gain.

Over the Rhine at Canal Street Tavern, Dayton OH 03-27-2009 (ORTF mounted on column, 10' from stage 4' LoC 8' up)

http://tapers.org/kbergendorff/samples/otr2009-03-27sample1.flac
http://tapers.org/kbergendorff/samples/otr2009-03-27sample2.flac

(FTR the above tracks will be combined with the board's mixed outs for the final recording)

Cowboy Junkies with the Louisville Symphony Orchestra at Whitney Hall, Louisville KY 03-38-2009 (head mounted 8" apart, 1st row mezzanine about 60' from stage 8' LoC)

http://tapers.org/kbergendorff/samples/cj2009-03-28sample1.flac
http://tapers.org/kbergendorff/samples/cj2009-03-28sample2.flac

Béla Fleck and the African Project at Tarrytown Music Hall, Tarrytown NY 03-29-2009 (head mounted 8" apart, 8th row DFC)

http://tapers.org/kbergendorff/samples/bf2009-03-29sample1.flac
http://tapers.org/kbergendorff/samples/bf2009-03-29sample2.flac

I'm cross-posting these in the PMD661 thread.

[grider]

wow, tiny rig, and I thought Over the Rhine broke up a couple of years ago, I watched a big final concert of theirs, tears and all, over on Austin City Limits or some similar music series

[spcyrfc]

would anyone be interested in getting down on a series of NOLA bars for the senns?  i think he said he would accomodate a minimum order of 5 bars.  i would be interested in a DIN bar and maybe others.

[CQBert]

I would.. Probably DIN and ORTF

CQbert

[spcyrfc]

two for din. i may do ortf.  pretty sure we need 5  for each type of bar.

hope they come out with figure-8's soon.  saving dough.

[spcyrfc]

no more interest in the DIN bar?

we need three more takers to make an order.

[kbergend]

I just bought one of Robb's (Darktrain) 23cm Delrin bars with a riser for $25.  It's very light and will do XY, ORTF, DIN and NOS (I use a big marked-up plastic triangle to align the mics).

[John Willett]

I just bought one of Robb's (Darktrain) 23cm Delrin bars with a riser for $25.  It's very light and will do XY, ORTF, DIN and NOS (I use a big marked-up plastic triangle to align the mics).

Very nice.

At the other end of the scale, I went for the new Grace SpaceBar



There is also a longer version so you can have an ORTF pair + omni out-riders:



I got the set with both length bars and 4 mic. mounts - the bars also come with a riser mount as standard to raise one mic. above the other.



But what I really like about these bars (other than the superb engineering) is that they are properly and accurately marked for distance and angle, including tilt angle, so it's very fast and easy to set up and very easily repeatable. 

And - they also do a 3/8" version for Europe (which is the version I have).

Not cheap, but excellent.

[kbergend]

Whoa, sweet! Yeah, that pretty piece of engineering is certainly the Rolls Royce of mic bars.  Briefly considered buying one myself, but I decided to take my wife to Bermuda instead.   The negligible weight of the Delrin bar was a bigger plus than the price for me actually, these days I'm taking a train or plane to most of the shows I tape so small & light are where it's at for me right now.  And my 99¢ length-and-angle-inscribed triangle is accurate, if less than elegant.

I'm curious how much that Grace bar weighs, John.  I can't tell from the photos if it's made of aluminum or plastic or what?